LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[maggerson]

Hey everyone, I wanted to start this thread off for awhile. Yesterday I asked the NF organizers about it (and got a SUPER nice email back from Staci, many thanks to her) so here we go.

I'm an out gay lady, but I've only encountered a handful of other queerly-persuaded folks around here. So I felt that NF could do with a space devoted exclusively to respectful, accepting, and tolerant conversations surrounding relationship issues, body image issues, coming-out issues, and all of that jazz.

The mods have made it clear they won't tolerate any sort of abuse, so I want you all to feel free to ask questions, and hopefully this can become a really cool place to talk about things with some friendly online folks. This is not meant to exclude straight allies, hence the title. I just hope everyone can be respectful and maybe we can make this corner of the internet an even better place.

Thanks for reading!

[Daverin2112]

I won't have much to contribute to this (straight and not an activist), but I do really feel the need to voice how awesome it is that this is the kind of community that can accept this! It just makes me feel even better about being here.

Random intrusion over, I hope you nothing interferes with your right to be who you are.

[nightlight]

as possibly the only queer mod (that i know of) i'll be watching this thread (and participating!)

[Lizifer]

I indentify as queer, though I'm currently in relatively het-norm relationships. I'm particularly invested in gender identity and morphing. Thanks for taking the initiative!

[maggerson]

Thanks for your support! Also, no worries about intruding - like I said, this is supposed to be a pretty inclusive place, so feel free to stop by as often as you like!

[erawka]

Queer here. Many thanks for starting the thread!

[CyningaDena]

Gods love you, maggerson. Just when I thought that "fit queer nerds" was too narrow of a demographic to rep. Huzzah!

In celebration of this thread, I give you Jonny McGovern's video for "

." Barely work safe (lots of tighty whities...it's the Gay Pimp, after all!)

[weirdquark]

I suspect that unless people are talking about their personal life, which people do to different extents, sexual orientation just doesn't come up much in a fitness site because it's not really relevant to how much you're lifting or how fast your last 5K was. So you may have met more queer people around here than you think you have and it just hasn't come up.

Gender expression and identity has come up some though, and I remember someone was collecting or looking for resources for people who were transitioning and working out.

[nightlight]

I suspect that unless people are talking about their personal life, which people do to different extents, sexual orientation just doesn't come up much in a fitness site because it's not really relevant to how much you're lifting or how fast your last 5K was. So you may have met more queer people around here than you think you have and it just hasn't come up.

Gender expression and identity has come up some though, and I remember someone was collecting or looking for resources for people who were transitioning and working out.

or unless you're reading my thread, which is like a freaking circus of bad online dating.

re: your second point, that was Starbuck. I'll have to rope him into this thread.

[catspaw]

"My taste includes both snails and oysters", to quote Crassus.

Thanks for taking the initiative to create the thread. One of the things I <3 about NF is the huge diversity of folks we have here, including a whole bunch of people who are very different from myself with completely different life philosophies, politics, etc. and yet we all get along and for the most part miraculously remain not just civil, but actually friendly-like.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Just coming in and replying to get this thread on my subscribed list. I probably won't be participating much as my only experience with the gay world is that my mom has a few gay friends (all great people coincidentally), but will be checking in to police for troublemakers and probably enjoy reading the convo.

[CyningaDena]

[drastic hack-n-slash overediting]...sexual orientation just doesn't come up much in a fitness site because it's not really relevant to how much you're lifting or how fast your last 5K was.

At first blush this seems true, but in the short time I've been active on the forums I've already learned quite a bit about who has made babies and who is married to whom, and that's just from the mini-challenge and individual 6-week challenge threads. Considering that there are no more heavily-weighted symbols of sexuality than a wedding ring and a stoller, that actually tells a lot about someone's sexuality. Not to mention the level of sex/sexuality sharing that happens in the "men only" thread (and I imagine in the Women's Guild forum as well). So sexual orientation does come up. Quite a bit, in fact, if you count all the many oblique references.

This isn't a complaint that these things are shared. I'd go crazy if I couldn't share what's going on in my home life, because that's an important context for my fitness goals. I just think it's worth pointing out, because in a hetero-normative society saying "sexuality doesn't come up/isn't relevant here" really means "queer sexuality doesn't come up/isn't relevant here, and we're just immune to seeing all the hetero stuff that's flying around constantly." I think it can be productively eye-opening to see all of the ways that heterosexuality is threaded into the fabric of everyday "non-sexual" life.

$0.02

[BeckyBuckeye]

I'd go crazy if I couldn't share what's going on in my home life, because that's an important context for my fitness goals. I just think it's worth pointing out, because in a hetero-normative society saying "sexuality doesn't come up/isn't relevant here" really means "queer sexuality doesn't come up/isn't relevant here, and we're just immune to seeing all the hetero stuff that's flying around constantly." I think it can be productively eye-opening to see all of the ways that heterosexuality is threaded into the fabric of everyday "non-sexual" life.

That's a great point. I'm a straight woman living with my boyfriend and yes, that has often come into the goals and other things I post on here because it's a big part of my life. Everyone needs to feel free to do the same.

I thought I had something useful to add to the conversation but work brain just died, so I'm commenting to subscribe anyways.

[weirdquark]

At first blush this seems true, but in the short time I've been active on the forums I've already learned quite a bit about who has made babies and who is married to whom, and that's just from the mini-challenge and individual 6-week challenge threads. Considering that there are no more heavily-weighted symbols of sexuality than a wedding ring and a stoller, that actually tells a lot about someone's sexuality. Not to mention the level of sex/sexuality sharing that happens in the "men only" thread (and I imagine in the Women's Guild forum as well). So sexual orientation does come up. Quite a bit, in fact, if you count all the many oblique references.

This isn't a complaint that these things are shared. I'd go crazy if I couldn't share what's going on in my home life, because that's an important context for my fitness goals. I just think it's worth pointing out, because in a hetero-normative society saying "sexuality doesn't come up/isn't relevant here" really means "queer sexuality doesn't come up/isn't relevant here, and we're just immune to seeing all the hetero stuff that's flying around constantly." I think it can be productively eye-opening to see all of the ways that heterosexuality is threaded into the fabric of everyday "non-sexual" life.

$0.02

Oh, sure, and that's why I qualified that with 'unless you talk about your personal life' and there are plenty of people here who do mention their spouse who is not the same gender as the person posting and their kids and such. But I've been posting on the forums for almost a year now and may have mentioned occasional roommate things that were related to what we were doing fitness-wise, but my dating experiences only came up in the last couple of weeks because I felt I had something to add to other people's discussions of dating.

I don't really consider people talking about their kids to be a sign of non-queerness, even when they have a partner of the opposite gender. Sure, odds are against it, but they could be bi, and I don't know that the odds are more against a person in an opposite-sex marriage with kids being queer than they are for a single person.

[more later when I have time]

[erawka]

I'm not sure I see a tremendous difference in what you two are saying, weirdquark and CyningaDena. From weirdquark, I get that NFers choose what they disclose, and for some that does not involve their personal life at all. True statement, IMO. From CyningaDena, I get that when there is disclosure, however, it trends toward queer invisibility. Also true, and WQ seems to acknowledge that.

I wonder if queerfolk are more inclined to hesitate to disclose because we're not always welcome? I did that on my vacation when chatting with a straight couple, and I got a little embarrassed for both assuming they'd be not okay with teh gay and for not being my usual out and proud self. (This is made all the funnier/more awkward by the fact that partner and I are just so clearly queer to anyone with even a little gaydar.)

In any case, I can't say I've met anyone on the boards who has taken my references to partner/girlfriend and been all "HOMO YOU DIE" which is quite nice.

On a somewhat related note, it's also quite nice to see a mixed faith message board not get all Atheists v. Believers -- but maybe I just haven't been around here long enough.

[spezzy]

I suspect that unless people are talking about their personal life, which people do to different extents, sexual orientation just doesn't come up much in a fitness site because it's not really relevant to how much you're lifting or how fast your last 5K was. So you may have met more queer people around here than you think you have and it just hasn't come up.

Which is why we decided against opening up a section of the forums for this when it was requested, but said a thread would be fine

The only time when I've seen it overly relevant to fitness is talking about hormones people take to go from one gender to another - which has come up, but not often enough to warrant an entire section.

I wonder if queerfolk are more inclined to hesitate to disclose because we're not always welcome? I did that on my vacation when chatting with a straight couple, and I got a little embarrassed for both assuming they'd be not okay with teh gay and for not being my usual out and proud self. (This is made all the funnier/more awkward by the fact that partner and I are just so clearly queer to anyone with even a little gaydar.)

In any case, I can't say I've met anyone on the boards who has taken my references to partner/girlfriend and been all "HOMO YOU DIE" which is quite nice.

On a somewhat related note, it's also quite nice to see a mixed faith message board not get all Atheists v. Believers -- but maybe I just haven't been around here long enough.

I've honestly never even thought people were being hesitant about being open about it, but maybe now that we have this if anyone was being hesitant they will open up?

We've had a few incidents (with people who have since been banned) which is why we're going to keep a close eye on this just to make sure those people don't come back purely to post stupid shit (which they've been known to do, in many areas, not just this area )

And yes, NF has an amazing variety. One of the reasons why I love it

[azsf]

bi guy, currently in a hetero relationship. i have a hard time dating guys, but i do enjoy them

Not to mention the level of sex/sexuality sharing that happens in the "men only" thread (and I imagine in the Women's Guild forum as well). So sexual orientation does come up. Quite a bit, in fact, if you count all the many oblique references.

Pretty sure one of the latest discussions was about a artinums partner, so it does come up. though i agree that most LGBT people stay quiet unless in a openly LGBT space. so hopefully this thread will bring that out? Because this thread was just listed as a 'space', im going to use it like the mens thread to ask for a little bit of random advice and get the ball rolling.

My partner was a lesbian until she met me, and now she identifies as pan-sexual. however, she feels pretty ostracized from her old friend groups for no longer being a lesbian, and a little weird around my primary friend group (which is pretty much all hetero couples). i suspect the issue might be exactly like the one mentioned by cyingadena, that LGBT people keep their personal life to themselves around non LGBT people, while straights are more open in general. has anyone else gone through, or had a partner go through, a similar experience? how did you deal with it?

[chasely]

An ally reporting in.

My partner worked for a LGBTQ organization so I got a second-hand look into the squabbling that goes on between LGBTQ organizations over hosting events/fundraising/etc. It was slightly disheartening but understandable. There's a limited pool of funds and everyone is hoping for their own survival, even if their fighting for (mostly) the same causes.

As a slightly naive ally, can someone clue me into a general (I know it can vary from person-to-person) definition of queer?

[The Shogun]

as possibly the only queer mod (that i know of) i'll be watching this thread (and participating!)

I did not know this. AWESOME.

Just coming in and replying to get this thread on my subscribed list. One of my best friends (and one of the best friends I have ever had) was gay, and nowadays one of my best girl friends is gay too. I just don't see any difference. Other than talking about girls with a girl (which I find very educational sometimes and funny as hell always) or my gay friend flirting with me just to pull my leg I don't think there's difference from any of my other friends. It's like how Galecki from The Big Bang Theory said regarding rumors about being gay:

"I haven't really addressed those rumors because why defend yourself against something that isn't offensive?"

BTW, you're all welcome in the Monks Guild! we're always recruiting!

[Rivanariko]

My partner was a lesbian until she met me, and now she identifies as pan-sexual. however, she feels pretty ostracized from her old friend groups for no longer being a lesbian, and a little weird around my primary friend group (which is pretty much all hetero couples). i suspect the issue might be exactly like the one mentioned by cyingadena, that LGBT people keep their personal life to themselves around non LGBT people, while straights are more open in general. has anyone else gone through, or had a partner go through, a similar experience? how did you deal with it?

Straight ally, so I have no personal experience with a situation like this, but it does make sense to me that LGBT individuals would hold their cards a little closer to their chest, so to speak, simply because there are so many assholes out there who are... well, assholes. Straight people can easily feel safe talking about our relationships in just about any space, whereas that is, unfortunately, not always true for LGBT people.

Hopefully as your partner gets to know your friend group and sees evidence that they are accepting and non-judgemental (otherwise methinks they wouldn't be your friends) she will start to feel more comfortable and open up a bit. No practical advice on the subject though, sorry.

[realbrickwall]

+1 to being happy we have a space to talk about this sort of thing on the boards. I'm disturbingly heteronormative (sort of), but I enjoy open discussion about sexuality, gender issues, and things along those lines. Maybe it comes from going to college in America's 3rd gayest city.

Also, I am afraid I'm going to have to be that guy: I find it a little entertaining that the person who made this thread has a Xena avatar. I suppose that could be on purpose, though.

[leadchipmunk]

Another ally here.

Just a little info about me, I am very comfortable with my sexuality, letting me be more open about same gender people I find attractive (though not sexually attracted to), which has led me to get in fights over which guy or girl is cuter with the bisexual exes I've had (usually with me taking the male's side, and them the female's). I also have absolutely no problem flirting with guys and have kissed one, but there was no attraction there, just 2 straight guys trying to get a rise out of their bi girlfriends.

But I do have a question to drop here. Well, I'll just repeat Chasely's question:

As a slightly naive ally, can someone clue me into a general (I know it can vary from person-to-person) definition of queer?

I've only recently heard of the group referred to as LGBTQ, and before that only as LGBT. I've always understood that "queer" is a derogatory term and should be avoided (unless using it as the original definition of "something out of the ordinary," and even then it is better to use "odd"). Has this changed? Is it ok to use the term in general public when referring to a non-hetero-aligned person (that's about as politically correct as I could get)? Or is this similar in sorts as the "N-word" used in reference to people of African descent (in other words, only acceptable to use by people who already identify as such, and not by anyone else)?

Also, followup question. What's the A stand for in LGBTQA?

[katpower]

A might be Asexual?

[realbrickwall]

Yes, A is Asexual.

Queer has been adopted by many as an all-inclusive term for the non-heteronormatives who don't fit easily into definitions. Pansexuals, people who are mooostly straight but maybe sometimes not, people who don't have a damn clue and don't want to keep trying to define it anyway, you get where I'm going with this. A lot of people feel unwelcome in more strict LGBT-defining groups. Believe me, a girl getting shunned by her lesbian friends just because she likes one dude is going to come away with some odd thoughts on the community.

In short, the LGBTQA acronym is one of many endless attempts to say concisely "we don't care WHAT you like to do with your genitals, we support you and want to listen to you."

[leadchipmunk]

Yes, A is Asexual.

Queer has been adopted by many as an all-inclusive term for the non-heteronormatives who don't fit easily into definitions. Pansexuals, people who are mooostly straight but maybe sometimes not, people who don't have a damn clue and don't want to keep trying to define it anyway, you get where I'm going with this. A lot of people feel unwelcome in more strict LGBT-defining groups. Believe me, a girl getting shunned by her lesbian friends just because she likes one dude is going to come away with some odd thoughts on the community.

In short, the LGBTQA acronym is one of many endless attempts to say concisely "we don't care WHAT you like to do with your genitals, we support you and want to listen to you."

Thanks for the clear answer. So, the -QA on the end is just to say that you are accepting of all non-heteronormatives and not part of the more strict LGBT groups.

And I'm pretty sure I have actually said "we don't care WHAT you like to do with your genitals, we support you and want to listen to you" before, or at least the first part of it anyway.