LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[chairohkey]

I once had to pick up my drunk brother in-law from a gay bar. His friends referred to me as a "bear". Compliment or not?

[Wolverine]

I once had to pick up my drunk brother in-law from a gay bar. His friends referred to me as a "bear". Compliment or not?

You are large, strong, and, most likely, furry. Depends entirely on whether you are into that sort of thing.

[Avistew]

I once had to pick up my drunk brother in-law from a gay bar. His friends referred to me as a "bear". Compliment or not?

That just means you're a big guy. Some people like bears, some people don't, it's a matter of taste. So it might be a descriptive rather than a compliment, but I've never heard it used as an insult. I like calling my boyfriend a bear, even though we're both straight. Why should gay guys have all the fun with animal names?

[RaeVynn]

Just popping in to say hi, to add this to my subscribed threads, and to identify as an ally.

[SpiralGalaxy]

Hello! I'm bi but in a stable heterosexual marriage (with a kid even!) so it's very easy for me to 'pass.' I've definitely got the wedding-band-and-stroller markers going. I self-identify as 'queer' mostly because most of my personality and career markers (esp. combining physics and electrical engineering with intense love of science fiction literature) that fit the male model better than a female one. I think the world would make a bit more sense if I were male, but I don't feel very strongly about it.

Count me in among those who love the QUILTBAG acronym!

[leadchipmunk]

Regarding the heteronormative discussion, I always saw it coming more from the biological perspective. Take all non-asexual life on earth, the majority of all species are heterosexual, for reasons of continuing the species. Yes, there are cases of homosexual and bisexual animals (reminds me of a story about a gay, raping/murdering, necrophiliac pigeon. It was a bit of a messed up story, but it was true) but the majority of animals must at least be hetero to procreate and survive as a species.

Humans have vastly surpassed the struggles of basic living and the need to constantly and actively procreate to survive as a species, allowing increased amounts of non-heterosexuality (whether this in inborn or a choice is a very hot subject and will be avoided here for obvious reasons) to be visible.

I once had to pick up my drunk brother in-law from a gay bar. His friends referred to me as a "bear". Compliment or not?

You are on a fitness forum and your avatar is taken in front of some heavy weights, so I'm guessing you want to be big, or at the very least you don't want to look like a twink. So, I say compliment.

That just means you're a big guy. Some people like bears, some people don't, it's a matter of taste. So it might be a descriptive rather than a compliment, but I've never heard it used as an insult. I like calling my boyfriend a bear, even though we're both straight. Why should gay guys have all the fun with animal names?

You sound like a girl I used to date. I mentioned I was a bear to her and then had to explain it. About 6 months later, she saw a documentary on the SanFran gay dom/sub community and they explained bears and twinks and she finally believed I wasn't making it up (In her defense, I do have a habit of doing that to see what people will believe). From that point on, she kept referring to me as a bear and even taught her daughter to call me a bear.

[maggerson]

reminds me of a story about a gay, raping/murdering, necrophiliac pigeon. It was a bit of a messed up story, but it was true

I think at this point we need to have a "messed up animal stories" thread.

Major kudos to everyone contributing to the "heteronormative" discussion - but I had a question for Rilo.

The one thing I don't agree with is people letting their sexuality run their lifestyle.

Did you mean this with regard to people dressing and behaving according to stereotype? Or are you pointing out that some people who are seemingly obsessed with their sexuality/sexual identity and only talk about this one particular subject?

[Atalan]

I think at this point we need to have a "messed up animal stories" thread.

Major kudos to everyone contributing to the "heteronormative" discussion - but I had a question for Rilo.

Did you mean this with regard to people dressing and behaving according to stereotype? Or are you pointing out that some people who are seemingly obsessed with their sexuality/sexual identity and only talk about this one particular subject?

I think he meant more to people who intentionally cultivate a statement that they are non-heteronormative, and having that "I am non-heteronormative" be not just a defining feature of their life, but the only feature. More generally, people who claim to not let a given cultural trend affect them by very specifically doing exactly the opposite (and thereby letting it affect them. Likely a number of us have this experience as nerds at some point or another. I know when I was younger I forbade my mom from buying me back-to-school clothes from Aeropostale, Abercrombie and Fitch, or other trendy brand names, just because I disliked the people I saw wearing them and wanted to show that I was different. Instead of just being myself, I cultivated myself to be different from them).

[azsf]

i always thought of 'heteronormative' as being fairly much the same as saying 'cisgendered'. i've never heard it used to describe a culture, but i guess it could easily be used that way. usually, people will say 'a heteronormative relationship' to mean a female-identifying female and a male-identifying male. or maybe i have this all wrong. not sure who coined it first, but id assume some college thesis/group.

I'm curious if being LGBT+ has a lot of consequences when you're working out.

Not as far as i've seen, at least not in the gym. Everyone in there is working out, after all. That being said, all of my friends who work out consistently are straight.

[Raikas]

I'm curious if being LGBT+ has a lot of consequences when you're working out.

Heh, maybe not while working out, but in the changeroom? Different story there, at least on the non-standard bodies side.

[realbrickwall]

i always thought of 'heteronormative' as being fairly much the same as saying 'cisgendered'. i've never heard it used to describe a culture, but i guess it could easily be used that way. usually, people will say 'a heteronormative relationship' to mean a female-identifying female and a male-identifying male. or maybe i have this all wrong. not sure who coined it first, but id assume some college thesis/group.

Cisgendered is an integral component to heteronormative, but heteronormative alse includes males liking females and females liking males, while cisgendered only applies to a person's internal gender matching up with their biological sex. You can be cisgendered and still be gay, bisexual, pansexual, asexual, queer, or whatever. I'm not sure how the term cisgendered applies to people who are not born fully male or female.

[maggerson]

You'd probably be suprised what kinds of things dolphins get up to. Especially the kinky Amazon river dolphins - only animal in the world known to engage in nasal sex (i.e. in the blowhole)!

OH NO.

[azsf]

[Saoirse]

Not as far as i've seen, at least not in the gym. Everyone in there is working out, after all. That being said, all of my friends who work out consistently are straight.

strangely enough, a similar thought popped into my head this morning. if a person was born male and began transitioning into a female, at what point would it be fair for him/her to compete in athletic competitions (like MMA) as a female?

You'd probably be suprised what kinds of things dolphins get up to. Especially the kinky Amazon river dolphins - only animal in the world known to engage in nasal sex (i.e. in the blowhole)!

is that the dolphin equivalent of deep throating?

Just popping in to say hi, to add this to my subscribed threads, and to identify as an ally.

ditto.

[Rilo]

I think at this point we need to have a "messed up animal stories" thread.

Major kudos to everyone contributing to the "heteronormative" discussion - but I had a question for Rilo.

Did you mean this with regard to people dressing and behaving according to stereotype? Or are you pointing out that some people who are seemingly obsessed with their sexuality/sexual identity and only talk about this one particular subject?

Oh no, I definitely didn't mean the stereotype. I'm sure we all fit a stereotype about something or other, although I think a select few might go out of their way to fit the stereotype maybe out of confusion or conformity (particularly at a younger age when they're "finding themselves"). but no, what I mean is your second point. I don't like when they constantly talk about it and they let it become who they are and they feel like they HAVE to be different and that they can't live a normal life in society. Because they could and they could be helping sway societys opinion. Does that make sense? I think it's a big jumble but nevermind!

Gay pride is maybe a good example - some might look at it as a way to say we're here we're queer (what I don't like), others look at it as a way to say it's okay to be gay (a support type thing). I went to one when I was a few years younger and it really opened my eyes because everyone was so different, being gay wasn't a defining feature.

Saying all that, it's not really a big annoyance of mine. They can do what they want!

I think he meant more to people who intentionally cultivate a statement that they are non-heteronormative, and having that "I am non-heteronormative" be not just a defining feature of their life, but the only feature. More generally, people who claim to not let a given cultural trend affect them by very specifically doing exactly the opposite (and thereby letting it affect them. Likely a number of us have this experience as nerds at some point or another. I know when I was younger I forbade my mom from buying me back-to-school clothes from Aeropostale, Abercrombie and Fitch, or other trendy brand names, just because I disliked the people I saw wearing them and wanted to show that I was different. Instead of just being myself, I cultivated myself to be different from them).

I think Atalan says its better than I do.

[Zorch]

i always thought of 'heteronormative' as being fairly much the same as saying 'cisgendered'. i've never heard it used to describe a culture, but i guess it could easily be used that way. usually, people will say 'a heteronormative relationship' to mean a female-identifying female and a male-identifying male. or maybe i have this all wrong. not sure who coined it first, but id assume some college thesis/group.

From my outsider's point of view, I think one could take an even broader interpretation of "heteronormative" depending on the situation. Namely - while it implies society's baseline assumption as heterosexual, cis-gendered, there are also a whole host of assumed behaviors that go along with that, many of which have already been discussed in this thread - getting married(including the ring), having kids, or being in highly visible relationships with members of the opposite sex. In some cases, the mere absence of certain "expected" behaviors in this category is enough for the whispering to start - fairly or unfairly. Take the case of someone who's 30+, no kids, never married, prefers a quiet evening with whomever he/she is dating instead of a night out, and is a private person who doesn't talk about their relationships until they're in one that's committed/long-term. You'll hear people asking the question even if there's no merit behind it.

I think to an extent, seeing what we're trained to see is part of the human condition - we need to be actively aware of our own biases so that we can prevent them from taking root and warping our perception of reality.

[Wolverine]

strangely enough, a similar thought popped into my head this morning. if a person was born male and began transitioning into a female, at what point would it be fair for him/her to compete in athletic competitions (like MMA) as a female?

I think this a complicated question and will vary by sport and even league/association/etc. within a sport, but would mostly dependent on hormone levels and surgery. I know of only one professional MTF (male to female) athlete and she is on the mountain biking circuit. Her fellow riders cry "unfair advantage" a lot even though she is of similar build to the other riders, has had all of her surgeries, and has hormone levels consistent with a cis female.

[azsf]

From that wiki article dillpedo linked to:

Since 2004, the International Olympic Committee (IOC), whose rules are used commonly throughout competitive sport, has allowed transsexuals to compete as their reassigned gender if the surgery has taken place at least two years prior to the competition and if the athlete has been on a regimen of hormones equal to that of a person born to the gender

But i've never really heard about it. Considering how bullshit most of the IOC 'gender' tests can be (look at what happened to Caster Semenya or this article on gender tests) i'm not sure they'd actually allow it.

[Wolverine]

From that wiki article dillpedo linked to:

But i've never really heard about it. Considering how bullshit most of the IOC 'gender' tests can be (look at what happened to Caster Semenya or this article on gender tests) i'm not sure they'd actually allow it.

Or they would allow it but after rounds of PUBLIC testing and media dissection and public ridicule... Not for the faint of heart, that's for sure.

[leadchipmunk]

From that wiki article dillpedo linked to:

Since 2004, the International Olympic Committee (IOC), whose rules are used commonly throughout competitive sport, has allowed transsexuals to compete as their reassigned gender if the surgery has taken place at least two years prior to the competition and if the athlete has been on a regimen of hormones equal to that of a person born to the gender

But i've never really heard about it. Considering how bullshit most of the IOC 'gender' tests can be (look at what happened to Caster Semenya or this article on gender tests) i'm not sure they'd actually allow it.

I'm going to start by saying that I did not read the article. But if the person is within those 2 years post-surgery, does that mean he or she could perform as their original(?) gender?

[gymell]

I'm a computer programmer.

I'm a weightlifter.

I'm an organist.

I'm Episcopalian

I'm a Southerner.

I'm left-handed.

I'm a volunteer.

I'm a bird watcher.

I'm a photographer.

I'm a nerd.

I'm gay (my partner and I have been together for almost 14 years.)

Being gay is just one part of my identity, and certainly not the primary one. I really don't care what people think about it because if someone can't accept who I am, then they don't have the privilege of being my friend. That has included members of my family, as well as some members of the LBGT community who don't tolerate any deviation from the accepted group think. I find that I'm much happier associating with people who share the same interests I do, rather than trying to force myself to fit in with a community based on one demographic (I spent some years unsuccessfully trying to do that.)

[Book]

I'm mainly just checking in to get this on my subscription list (okay, okay... I know how to do that without posting, but posting is more fun)

I am definitely an ally, at the very least. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in rural-red-hell, and most of the people I interact with have NRA/Michelle Bachman/anti-Obama bumper stickers on their cars. I haven't regularly interacted with someone openly 'out' since I left college.

I probably won't have anything intelligent to add, and I'm still working through the backlogs of this thread, but you have my full support.

[knopfler]

A can also be Allied. I've seen GLBTQQIAAPT as an actual acronym, folks. (gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, queer, questioning, intersex, allied, asexual, pansexual, two-spirit) It gets a little crazy.

I'm a gay man but I don't consider myself queer. Queer, at least as I understand it, is meant as a) taking the word back from being a slur, and meant to denote general societal nonconformity. I'm ok with A, I suppose, though we already took back the word gay so whatevs. B is not something I'm personally interested in. So I'm just gay folk. Yup, that does it for me.

[azsf]

quick update on the issues i posted on earlier!

[my partner] feels pretty ostracized from her old friend groups for no longer being a lesbian, and a little weird around my primary friend group

managed to organise a good ol' friendly hang out earlier this week with most of the old guard! went well, had a decent turnout, plus we met up down at the local gay bar so had plenty of friendly faces stopping by as well. definitely a step in the right direction to ending some of that social isolation. my partner and a few others all caught up again yesterday for coffee and we've been invited to a party on the weekend. so win freaking win thanks y'all!

[Unda]

quick update on the issues i posted on earlier!

managed to organise a good ol' friendly hang out earlier this week with most of the old guard! went well, had a decent turnout, plus we met up down at the local gay bar so had plenty of friendly faces stopping by as well. definitely a step in the right direction to ending some of that social isolation. my partner and a few others all caught up again yesterday for coffee and we've been invited to a party on the weekend. so win freaking win thanks y'all!

Yay! I'm so pleased for you both! Sometimes friends just need someone to go "hey, you're being kind of an ass" and someone to be the bigger person before these things can get back on track.