LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[Jett]

It happens. People grope people, and sometimes that's men groping women. I brought up my experience of being groped at a festival because it was relevant to the point I was making in the article, but yeh it's happened to me a fair bit. Whether because the person sees an attractive girl they wants to touch, or want to satisfy their curiosity, or just feel entitled to my body, it happens. It's happened to a lot of my friends, cis and trans. It sucks, but that's why we talk about it.

I guess it's a sort of cultural thing - I don't go to many music festivals, definitely not the kind that contain people who feel they can grope others at will. It's insane that someone could have the audacity to feel offended by what they found after violating your privacy in that way. Ugh. Some people.

 

Anyway, congrats! Ahh, that's super exciting. I hope everything goes perfectly and you get a nice vacation in Thailand out of it, too.

[aalex]

Girl, I feel you.

I'm from Russia, and my family........ did not take my coming out well. I've lost contact with about half of them.

I'd offer you a high five (yay Eastern Europe), but I don't think there's much to celebrate about this. When I was in England, I'd see same-sex couples every day; just out and about, holding hands, even kissing. In Poland, those people would've been stared at, mocked, and humiliated. In England, it just fell so normal. I made a friend there who just casually mentioned that he's gay, like it's no big deal. It's just... Eastern European people are so conservative and so bigoted. And it kinda sucks.

I'm also sorry your coming out didn't go well. *sends you a hug*

[starsapart]

I'd offer you a high five (yay Eastern Europe), but I don't think there's much to celebrate about this. When I was in England, I'd see same-sex couples every day; just out and about, holding hands, even kissing. In Poland, those people would've been stared at, mocked, and humiliated. In England, it just fell so normal. I made a friend there who just casually mentioned that he's gay, like it's no big deal. It's just... Eastern European people are so conservative and so bigoted. And it kinda sucks.

I'm also sorry your coming out didn't go well. *sends you a hug*

 

I guess we can celebrate being more progressive and sensible than most of our countrymen/women?

 

It's such a disconnect between countries for sure....................

 

And don't worry about it.  Parts of my family were less than decent, but my parents have been super (well, my mom didn't start off super, but she came around) and I still have people in my life who love and support me and are related to me.  I couldn't ask for more.

 

Wishing you the best of luck, sending hugs back to you!

[aalex]

I guess we can celebrate being more progressive and sensible than most of our countrymen/women?

It's such a disconnect between countries for sure....................

And don't worry about it. Parts of my family were less than decent, but my parents have been super (well, my mom didn't start off super, but she came around) and I still have people in my life who love and support me and are related to me. I couldn't ask for more.

Wishing you the best of luck, sending hugs back to you!

I think my mom's reaction shouldn't be extremely negative either. She's super religious, but we've talked about LGBTQA+ before and she's always had the kind of "love is love, I shouldn't judge people" attitude (although her own daughter being queer might be kind of a surprise). My dad, brother, and other family members, however... I don't even want to think about it for now. You and all the people who've come out are so brave (and inspirational).

I'm so glad you still have such awesome people in your life. And think you so much!

[Lionceau]

I'm so glad this thread exists

 

 

Proud out lesbian here to talk and help everyone

I'm from Brazil 

 

Keep being amazing!

[Artinum]

I'd offer you a high five (yay Eastern Europe), but I don't think there's much to celebrate about this. When I was in England, I'd see same-sex couples every day; just out and about, holding hands, even kissing. In Poland, those people would've been stared at, mocked, and humiliated. In England, it just fell so normal. I made a friend there who just casually mentioned that he's gay, like it's no big deal. It's just... Eastern European people are so conservative and so bigoted. And it kinda sucks.

I'm also sorry your coming out didn't go well. *sends you a hug*

 

In much of England, yes. But there are some areas in pretty much every town where that's a good way to get yourselves beaten up.

[Jett]

I'm so glad this thread exists

 

 

Proud out lesbian here to talk and help everyone

I'm from Brazil 

 

Keep being amazing!

Hi, welcome!!

[starsapart]

I think my mom's reaction shouldn't be extremely negative either. She's super religious, but we've talked about LGBTQA+ before and she's always had the kind of "love is love, I shouldn't judge people" attitude (although her own daughter being queer might be kind of a surprise). My dad, brother, and other family members, however... I don't even want to think about it for now. You and all the people who've come out are so brave (and inspirational).

I'm so glad you still have such awesome people in your life. And think you so much!

 

Everything will be okay.  Somehow, some way.

 

If you ever want to talk to someone from a similar background about these issues, PM me anytime.

[shaeon]

I'm not going to reply to any one person specifically, but thanks to everyone sharing their stories about coming out - or not - and the difficulties of it. I'm at an age where I have the perspective to look around and perceive things as better than they were when I was younger, and it's easy to think "why isn't everyone out? It's so much easier now!" There are certain privileges in my life, though (white, middle class, American) as well as certain disadvantages (living in Alabama - which oh, by the way, our state supreme court is overturning our recently won gay marriage rights. Rawr). So, you know. Perspective is always a good thing.

 

 

I guess it's a sort of cultural thing - I don't go to many music festivals, definitely not the kind that contain people who feel they can grope others at will. It's insane that someone could have the audacity to feel offended by what they found after violating your privacy in that way. Ugh. Some people.

 

 

Yep. I'm cis-female, and I have been groped at concerts - like, starting when I was 15 and going to metal shows. But not only at shows. I don't think there's any such thing as an environment where you can fully avoid that kind of thing. Crowds certainly offer jerks who want to do that a degree of anonymity, because you probably won't know who in the crowd just grabbed your ass. But I've also been in a situation where I was in an open area where I turned around to find a guy I don't know right up on me with his hand out, trying to touch my face; which of course is not the same thing as a grope, but still just as unwelcome. Some guys are just going to do things like that. Sadly, I operate under the assumption that most adult women probably have been groped at least a time or two, because in my experience that is usually the case. 

 

 

Sometimes you got to love Reddit (especially if we are talking about the sub Actual Lesbians).

This made me really happy.

 

 

Kaelvan, can you please send me a link to this where I can find it all in one place? I kinda need it.

[aalex]

In much of England, yes. But there are some areas in pretty much every town where that's a good way to get yourselves beaten up.

Sorry, I definitely should've phrased it differently; I'm not saying the entire country is cool with queer people. I mean, people are bullied, humiliated, beaten up, and sometimes even murdered simply for being queer in the UK, Canada, and the US as well. I guess the overall atmosphere is more LGBTQA+ friendly, but that doesn't mean everyone is.

Everything will be okay. Somehow, some way.

If you ever want to talk to someone from a similar background about these issues, PM me anytime.

Thank you, that's so sweet! I'll keep it in mind.

[Tkal]

With other people, the problem with coming out as a trans person is...there's just not too many opportunities to come out in a non-awkward manner. For example, there's a group of friends I've started hanging out with a few months ago whose company I enjoy. I'm 99% sure that none of them would react negatively to me being trans if they did know, but...how do I just bring this up? It just feels a little awkward to just say out of the blue "Obtw, I'm really a guy". If any of them were to ask, I'd just answer honestly, but it's just never a topic that's come up in conversation.

 

I don't think anyone would really be shocked, even in my extended family. I haven't made this FaceBook official yet, mainly because 1) no name changes have happened yet, and 2) no bodily changes have happened either.

 

As for coming out after I start to reliably pass as a guy, the same thing will apply. How do you just bring this up in a conversation? I just kind of stopped caring, and if anyone asks, I'll just answer. Unless they look like they're about to beat the shit out of me ;P

 

 If I think back, I had to say "by the way, I'm a guy" only to a colleague from China who was always using "she". Later on I realized that the problem was her English, not my gender

 

My first big coming out was with an online lesbian community, counting around 1000 members. After years of being one of the butches there I wrote that I felt more a man than a woman. I received the same amount of "you are brave to do the transition" and "traitor of the cause". The two most difficult ones where with my wife first and my parents much later. I agree with hitlionsoul that the closer you are to a person, the more difficult it is to say. Even if most of the time the reaction of this person would be "I already knew, and I am ok with that"

So yes, start somewhere "safe", where it is not dangerous and a rejection is not too painful

 

Back to the quote above, there is really no non-akward way to say it. But there are plenty to show it. For example, I started using the male toilet from one day to another. Someone noticed, some didn't. The people who asked got answered without sharing more than needed. I am open about my gender identity, but for many people it could be really difficult to digest and understand. So, small bites and long chewing

And the toilet switch happened way before I sought medical treatment.

 

Now I have been on testosterone almost 2 years and I pass reliably as a guy only if I don't shave for a week. But I see guys around with less facial hair than me, shorter than me and with a voice higher than mine. My realization was that changing the way I present myself was easier and quicker than waiting for my body or my documents to change. So, even before the toilet switch I start introducing myself using a nick name that usually people identify as male and correcting people (colleagues) that were using the wrong pronouns. On this aspect I have the luck to live in a place where it is common that the name you use daily is completely different from the one in your passport. In my case it is only the short version

 

For me now the problem is more that without big arrow saying "transman here", my identity is not questioned in a way that would allow me to share something, to educate somehow people oblivious of the fact that there is more than cis-het-masculine-male people (aka "men") and cis-het-feminine-female people (aka "women"). I feel this unwanted stealthiness as a disservice toward the rainbow community

 

To put back some levity in all this: today I had an appointment with a gynaecologist for my surgery. Of course there were plenty of women, the only men where accompanying they (pregnant) partner/friend/whatever. Dutch people eat a lot of snacks, so where the people present. A lot of sugary things and sodas. The healthy snacks were something like cheese sandwiches. And then there was me, with my carrots and my water. A true nerd-rebel

And a queer rebel too. I let you imagine the expressions I saw when the gynaecologist called "Mr B.". It was fun and I felt a bit like how the Steve describes being the weird one at the gym

[Hit]

rant inc.

 

"im not proud to be gay"

 

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/mardi-gras-2015-im-not-proud-to-be-gay/story-fnq2o7dd-1227252721752

 

So we had the margi gras this weekend. Or sydney did. Personally it's not really my scene, but i think its super cool that it's a thing. As opposed to the author of this article, who just wants to fade away into obscurity where being gay is no big thing. Which is fine, but to me, this misses the point of a gay pride parade - that being queer is still a "big thing", that people don't want to be queer and people don't want others to be queer. To quote artinum -

 

 

 

 I would have chosen to be straight if it were [a choice] - my life was complicated enough!

 

And that's exactly why you need to be proud to be queer. It needs to become something you WOULD choose, and not just for some sort of 'road less travelled', 'a hard life makes a better person' bullshit. Because we're still re-thinking coming out to people, about discussing our partners at work, or about holding hands when we walk down the street. Because a lot of people still don't want us to be queer, and pride is telling those people to go fuck themselves. 

 

Proud to be gay is not about "being gay is so awesome guys". It's about being proud to be yourself, to live open and honest and without fear, to pursue love and happiness in the way you want. It's saying that being queer it is just as legitimate as being straight. Just as natural, just as normal, just as special, just as good.

 

Proud to be gay means to be proud to be alive and a part of your community. You can not like a parade, and you can vent your frustrations about it, but don't say your not proud to be gay. You can show your pride in ways that don't involve glitter and floats and Candi Staton. The article closes with

 

 

 

Because my sexual orientation is so unremarkable — so batshit boring — that my idea of gay rights is holding hands with my boyfriend and walking down the street without anybody so much as raising an eyelid.

 

which is an awesome end goal, if it wasn't mistaking "pride" for "rights". 

[Tkal]

Proud to be gay is not about "being gay is so awesome guys". It's about being proud to be yourself, to live open and honest and without fear, to pursue love and happiness in the way you want. It's saying that being queer it is just as legitimate as being straight. Just as natural, just as normal, just as special, just as good.

And this summarizes 128 pages of this thread. And more. Thanks, it is always good to read this

[kaelvan]

Kaelvan, can you please send me a link to this where I can find it all in one place? I kinda need it.

Here you go:

http://rabbitgh0ul.tumblr.com/post/108625474938/i-dont-have-an-explanation-for-this-screen-caps

[Fearkiller]

 

That was cute, and it has a good idea behind it, too.

[shaeon]

rant inc.

 

"im not proud to be gay"

 

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/mardi-gras-2015-im-not-proud-to-be-gay/story-fnq2o7dd-1227252721752

 

So we had the margi gras this weekend. Or sydney did. Personally it's not really my scene, but i think its super cool that it's a thing. As opposed to the author of this article, who just wants to fade away into obscurity where being gay is no big thing. Which is fine, but to me, this misses the point of a gay pride parade - that being queer is still a "big thing", that people don't want to be queer and people don't want others to be queer. To quote artinum -

 

 

 I would have chosen to be straight if it were [a choice] - my life was complicated enough!

 

And that's exactly why you need to be proud to be queer. It needs to become something you WOULD choose, and not just for some sort of 'road less travelled', 'a hard life makes a better person' bullshit. Because we're still re-thinking coming out to people, about discussing our partners at work, or about holding hands when we walk down the street. Because a lot of people still don't want us to be queer, and pride is telling those people to go fuck themselves. 

 

Proud to be gay is not about "being gay is so awesome guys". It's about being proud to be yourself, to live open and honest and without fear, to pursue love and happiness in the way you want. It's saying that being queer it is just as legitimate as being straight. Just as natural, just as normal, just as special, just as good.

 

Proud to be gay means to be proud to be alive and a part of your community. You can not like a parade, and you can vent your frustrations about it, but don't say your not proud to be gay. You can show your pride in ways that don't involve glitter and floats and Candi Staton. The article closes with

 

 

 

Because my sexual orientation is so unremarkable — so batshit boring — that my idea of gay rights is holding hands with my boyfriend and walking down the street without anybody so much as raising an eyelid.

 

which is an awesome end goal, if it wasn't mistaking "pride" for "rights". 

 

I'm so with you on this. 

 

I feel like the statistics he quotes on gay marriage acceptance are the biggest argument for pride events - anytime you have to quote statistics on how good the mainstream is doing on permitting you to have rights, you need pride - because whether or not this writer personally feels ashamed of being gay, the very nature of being in a group whose rights are granted as if we're being done a favor is that the message is "we're deciding whether or not we should let you operate like regular citizens". If you're in that group, you need pride, because you need to remind those in power that what you have for yourself is the opposite of shame, and therefore you're not willing to agree with them that you're wrong for being different.

The biggest form of bigotry I encounter on a regular basis is the question "why does there need to be gay pride parades? There aren't any straight pride parades" (and this by heterosexuals who pat themselves on the back for being so open-minded that they have gay friends. We're like girl scout badges they've gathered to pin to their little sashes alongside their "some of my best friends are black" patch). I always feel so frustrated by this. If you've never felt the need to hide the details of the relationship you are in - if you have never hesitated over pronouns or never thought twice before referring to "my boyfriend" or "my girlfriend" -  because you legitimately fear that you could lose your job, or friends, or just end up in an awkward situation with someone who is now going to ask you a whole lot of questions about your sexual identity, you don't need pride like the people who do have to live like that. Even those of us who are privileged to live with acceptance in our own little environment still know that there are places outside of that environment that aren't so accepting. 

[Jett]

So we had the margi gras this weekend. Or sydney did. Personally it's not really my scene, but i think its super cool that it's a thing. As opposed to the author of this article, who just wants to fade away into obscurity where being gay is no big thing. Which is fine, but to me, this misses the point of a gay pride parade - that being queer is still a "big thing", that people don't want to be queer and people don't want others to be queer. 

...

Proud to be gay is not about "being gay is so awesome guys". It's about being proud to be yourself, to live open and honest and without fear, to pursue love and happiness in the way you want. It's saying that being queer it is just as legitimate as being straight. Just as natural, just as normal, just as special, just as good.

 

I completely understand where you're coming from with this, and to a very large extent, I agree with you. However, I can also kinda see where the author of that article is coming from, too.

 

As an American with conservative Christian parents, all I knew about the LGBT+ community as a kid was Pride parades. And, like the author, that was kind of a huge turn-off for me. I'm not flamboyent, in any sense of the word. Orgies, skimpy outfits, glitter... really, really not my thing. And it took quite a long time for me to realize that you could be queer and not flamboyent. And here's the problem: my parents still know nothing about the LGBT+ community except Pride parades. They see this in-your-face, "fuck off" attitude, this huge, sweating mass of people denying not just the idea of heteronormative relationships, but magonomy, respect for elders, modesty, and prudence.

 

Are those things that should be preserved? It doesn't really matter. The point is, my parents, and plenty of people like them, can't separate the idea of being with someone of the same gender from all that other stuff. They can only take one new idea at a time, guys. They need to see examples of normal gay people leading normal lives, so that same-sex relationships can become normal to them. So, one the one hand, yes, absolutely, it's great to affirm your identity as something worthwhile and just as valuable as a straight person's identity. Pride festivals are a great time to show just how many people in the community are actually queer, or in support of queer people. But they're always going to be a turn-off to quiet, conservative people like me and my parents. We also need people just living their lives as queer individuals, quietly and averagely, just like the author of the article points out.

 

TL;DR - Pride parades sometimes hurt the image of the LGBT community as a whole in the eyes of certain populations, because of their excesses.

[insanity]

 

I completely understand where you're coming from with this, and to a very large extent, I agree with you. However, I can also kinda see where the author of that article is coming from, too.

 

As an American with conservative Christian parents, all I knew about the LGBT+ community as a kid was Pride parades. And, like the author, that was kind of a huge turn-off for me. I'm not flamboyent, in any sense of the word. Orgies, skimpy outfits, glitter... really, really not my thing. And it took quite a long time for me to realize that you could be queer and not flamboyent. And here's the problem: my parents still know nothing about the LGBT+ community except Pride parades. They see this in-your-face, "fuck off" attitude, this huge, sweating mass of people denying not just the idea of heteronormative relationships, but magonomy, respect for elders, modesty, and prudence.

 

Are those things that should be preserved? It doesn't really matter. The point is, my parents, and plenty of people like them, can't separate the idea of being with someone of the same gender from all that other stuff. They can only take one new idea at a time, guys. They need to see examples of normal gay people leading normal lives, so that same-sex relationships can become normal to them. So, one the one hand, yes, absolutely, it's great to affirm your identity as something worthwhile and just as valuable as a straight person's identity. Pride festivals are a great time to show just how many people in the community are actually queer, or in support of queer people. But they're always going to be a turn-off to quiet, conservative people like me and my parents. We also need people just living their lives as queer individuals, quietly and averagely, just like the author of the article points out.

 

TL;DR - Pride parades sometimes hurt the image of the LGBT community as a whole in the eyes of certain populations, because of their excesses.

As someone who's an ally, but can see both sides of the situation. I have to +1 this...

[Korra]

TL;DR - Pride parades sometimes hurt the image of the LGBT community as a whole in the eyes of certain populations, because of their excesses.

Coming from the same background (very Christian family and area), I've got to say that the fact that Pride exists, in all it's excessive glory, makes me incredibly happy and hopeful.

I am going to my first pride this summer, and maybe the fact that I haven't been yet disqualifies me from really critiquing anyone's position here, but I'm really excited to be in a space where being queer is celebrated and not shamed. And the fact that Pride gives that kind of space to people (not to mention the history of it), makes it relevant and wonderful in my books.

[ColoQ]

Coming from the same background (very Christian family and area), I've got to say that the fact that Pride exists, in all it's excessive glory, makes me incredibly happy and hopeful.

I am going to my first pride this summer, and maybe the fact that I haven't been yet disqualifies me from really critiquing anyone's position here, but I'm really excited to be in a space where being queer is celebrated and not shamed. And the fact that Pride gives that kind of space to people (not to mention the history of it), makes it relevant and wonderful in my books.

TL: DR   Pride parades are mixed bag. Seen differently by many people: - even the people who the parades are intended to represent.

[Tkal]

Are those things that should be preserved? It doesn't really matter. The point is, my parents, and plenty of people like them, can't separate the idea of being with someone of the same gender from all that other stuff. They can only take one new idea at a time, guys. They need to see examples of normal gay people leading normal lives, so that same-sex relationships can become normal to them. So, one the one hand, yes, absolutely, it's great to affirm your identity as something worthwhile and just as valuable as a straight person's identity. Pride festivals are a great time to show just how many people in the community are actually queer, or in support of queer people. But they're always going to be a turn-off to quiet, conservative people like me and my parents. We also need people just living their lives as queer individuals, quietly and averagely, just like the author of the article points out.

 

TL;DR - Pride parades sometimes hurt the image of the LGBT community as a whole in the eyes of certain populations, because of their excesses.

I wonder how are the parades in your area. Not haw they are depicted, but how they really are.

In my (limited) experience what you see on the news is a limited selection of the most excessive characters. The "regular" guys are not good for the show. Some years ago I showed my parents (at that time still on the boat "gays should burn in hell, now!") the picture I took at a parade, and we compared them with what was on the news. It was an eye opener for them. They saw people like me, they saw families like ours. They saw happy people eating ice cream as any other summer Sunday. They saw people in their normal working clothes (sometime it looked more a work union parade). They saw flags of countries, of parties, of football teams.

 

For me the parade is a family event, not much different from what in the US is 4th July: some parade with crazy people, music, good food, quality time with family and friends, fireworks at the end of the day

[Jett]

I wonder how are the parades in your area. Not haw they are depicted, but how they really are.

In my (limited) experience what you see on the news is a limited selection of the most excessive characters. The "regular" guys are not good for the show. Some years ago I showed my parents (at that time still on the boat "gays should burn in hell, now!") the picture I took at a parade, and we compared them with what was on the news. It was an eye opener for them. They saw people like me, they saw families like ours. They saw happy people eating ice cream as any other summer Sunday. They saw people in their normal working clothes (sometime it looked more a work union parade). They saw flags of countries, of parties, of football teams.

 

For me the parade is a family event, not much different from what in the US is 4th July: some parade with crazy people, music, good food, quality time with family and friends, fireworks at the end of the day

This is a good point. The majority of paraders are pretty normal-looking people in t-shirts, with maybe some face paint. It's the ones that are primarily on the floats, the really crazy-looking ones, that end up on the news, and are all my parents know about - since they wouldn't be willing to go to a parade. Maybe the problem isn't so much the existence of Pride parades, but the way they're depicted by the news.

 

And I'm not saying Pride parades are actually a bad thing at all! I'm just saying that I understand where the author of that article is coming from, even if maybe he didn't say it the best way he could have.

[kaelvan]

I think it's awesome there's pride parade since still an issue for our community to be proud of who we are. I'm not yet at that point of being where I want to be pride-wise, but I'm lot better than I was few months ago.

 

Those people that use gays as feel-good token don't deserve a Girl Scout badge (otherwise know as that kick ass organization who protects their own including the trans)

[Tkal]

Sorry for monopolizing this thread, but I have just got a email from my mother and this is something I want to share. When I came out to her in 2002 she said something that sounded like "it is your life, but please do that far from here, people like you are not welcomed in the (religious) community". Much has changed in our relationship in the last few years, since I started being more open with all the family. But apparently not only my family has changed... This is what she writes.
 

Today your aunt was talking with the priest [who knows me since I was 8] and he asked about you.
She told him the full story.
He said that things like this happen. Then he asked if the doctor treating you are serious professionals and if you are getting proper care. He also asked if we need help or support.
She answered that you are receiving good care and now we have come to term with your choice, although it took us a lot of time.
He stressed that we should not leave you alone in this and we should not get too distressed. You are the one with the difficult life and we should help you and support you at our best. He hopes you are well.
Your inner peace is paramount for us. After the initial shock we are all with you now. Of course we worry about you and for you, but we have always loved you, as a boy as much as as a girl

I wish all of you to receive something like this from your family and loved ones. It took them 13 year, but it doesn't matter. We are all better people now. It feels good, and warm, and now I log off because I have tears in my eyes

[Jett]

Sorry for monopolizing this thread, but I have just got a email from my mother and this is something I want to share. When I came out to her in 2002 she said something that sounded like "it is your life, but please do that far from here, people like you are not welcomed in the (religious) community". Much has changed in our relationship in the last few years, since I started being more open with all the family. But apparently not only my family has changed...

 

That is amazing! I am so glad for you.

 

I hope my spouse will someday hear words like that from her parents.