thinking about changing my approach.

[dijos]

so I've been doing a 5x5 lifting program, and I'm struggling with it. Not so much the actual program, but if it still meets my overall goals. on the plus side, I've gotten way stronger, especially on deadlifts and squats. even my bench has gone up 25 pounds, which is a miracle considering that it was stalled forever.

ON the flip side, I feel like I'm in worse shape. That probably does not make any sense, but my overall proprioception seems off. I used to feel a little more competent in my body. also, (fitness problems) my legs are getting too muscular to fit in my pants. it's a pain in the ass. I've gotten hurt with rows twice now, and that is really disappointing. and painful.

So now I'm bigger and stronger, but I also feel slower and heavier. I went to a 5x5 because I was on a 5 day bodybuilder split that was not working anymore, and I was overtraining- I was tired and beat up all the time. I'm not sure where to go from here; do I give it a rest? stop and do something else? it's been 7 or 8 weeks or so.

[Alanna]

The powerlifting/weightlifting programming board would probably be a great place to get some input from experienced lifters. Some thoughts from another novice, though...

 

Re: injuries and tiredness--Have you done a form check for rows? How's your recovery--are you eating and sleeping enough, and also doing mobility work? I'm not sure how far you got on the bodybuilding program, but I'm guessing you do have plenty of linear progression left on the 5x5 program (Stronglifts, I'm guessing?) *if* that's what you want to do. There are also weekly and monthly progression programs that might give you more flexibility with your workout routines and more time to recover. I'm still plugging away at a linear progression, myself (Starting Strength, which is a 3x5 program), but I'm looking at weekly progressions for down the road.

 

Re: feeling slow and heavy--You could start adding some conditioning work, such as sprints, to your workouts or rest days. Yeah, it will probably take some getting used to and might slow down your progress on the lifts, but it sounds like your goal isn't just to add weight to the bar.

 

By the way--what exactly are your goals? I might be far off the mark, but have you thought about trying weightlifting (i.e., Olympic lifting) by any chance? I train alongside weightlifters and their lifts take a lot of coordination, speed, and power...

 

 

so I've been doing a 5x5 lifting program, and I'm struggling with it. Not so much the actual program, but if it still meets my overall goals. on the plus side, I've gotten way stronger, especially on deadlifts and squats. even my bench has gone up 25 pounds, which is a miracle considering that it was stalled forever.

ON the flip side, I feel like I'm in worse shape. That probably does not make any sense, but my overall proprioception seems off. I used to feel a little more competent in my body. also, (fitness problems) my legs are getting too muscular to fit in my pants. it's a pain in the ass. I've gotten hurt with rows twice now, and that is really disappointing. and painful.

So now I'm bigger and stronger, but I also feel slower and heavier. I went to a 5x5 because I was on a 5 day bodybuilder split that was not working anymore, and I was overtraining- I was tired and beat up all the time. I'm not sure where to go from here; do I give it a rest? stop and do something else? it's been 7 or 8 weeks or so.

 

Yep, fitness problems, which are good problems to have . Thrift stores are a good place to pick up cheap pants if you anticipate that your size will continue changing.

[dijos]

I'be been thinking about your post alot for about a week now.  Specifically, you asking "By the way--what exactly are your goals?" got me thinking.

 

What are my goals? I initially wanted to lose weight (from 260-270), and did that, getting down to 192.  Lifted weights, got stronger. got bored and overtrained, probabaly from a lack of sleep too. I got into 5x5 because I was running out of time to cram in work and parenting and 5-6 days at the gym. 

 

I think it was a nice change, but I'm moving away from my original goal, which was to be able to run around with my kids. I got inflexible because I stopped doing stretching and'or mobility, and I cut out HIIT/cardio. Now I feel bigger (good) fatter (not good) and slower (lame). I think I'm going to hit up yoga, Bodyweight exercises and get back into some endurance so that I can regain sight of my goals.  I was looking at 5/3/1 to still lift, but supplement other items in. Wendler's book touches on it, but I have to read further into it. 

[TMedina]

On the subject of rows: this video helped me a lot - particularly with the bracing the core with a deep bellyful of air.

 

[Alanna]

 

I'be been thinking about your post alot for about a week now.  Specifically, you asking "By the way--what exactly are your goals?" got me thinking.

 

What are my goals? I initially wanted to lose weight (from 260-270), and did that, getting down to 192.  Lifted weights, got stronger. got bored and overtrained, probabaly from a lack of sleep too. I got into 5x5 because I was running out of time to cram in work and parenting and 5-6 days at the gym. 

 

I think it was a nice change, but I'm moving away from my original goal, which was to be able to run around with my kids. I got inflexible because I stopped doing stretching and'or mobility, and I cut out HIIT/cardio. Now I feel bigger (good) fatter (not good) and slower (lame). I think I'm going to hit up yoga, Bodyweight exercises and get back into some endurance so that I can regain sight of my goals.  I was looking at 5/3/1 to still lift, but supplement other items in. Wendler's book touches on it, but I have to read further into it. 

 

 

Sounds like your current program doesn't fit well with your lifestyle (i.e., you don't have time for anything BUT the heavy lifting). I don't have any personal experience with 5/3/1, but I've heard good things about it (both here on NF and at my uni) and it would give you the time/flexibility to add back mobility (always a good idea when lifting!) and conditioning work. Good luck with the changes!

[hblyne]

My ex was doing 5x5 Stronglifts and the more weight he added, the longer his workouts got. It got to the point where he was spending a good 1.5-2.5 hours per workout, PLUS mobility work every day. So it does seem to be a very time consuming program at the heavier weights.

 

Finding a new program that fits into your life better sounds like the way to go.

[Silo]

I recently switched over to a Greyskull LP-type scheme for my upper body workout. I wonder if it might work for you. The basic template is:

 

Workout 3x/wk

 

Bench press and OHP

- alternated each day (i.e., bench on day 1, OHP day 2, bench day 3, OHP the next week's day 1, etc.)

- 2 x 5

- 1 x AMRAP, goal is to get 5+

- increase 2.5 lbs. each workout

 

Squats

- done on days 1 and 3

- 2 x 5

- 1 x AMRAP, goal is 5+

- increase 5 lbs. each workout

 

Deadlift

- done on day 2

- 1 x AMRAP, goal is 5+

- increase 5 lbs. each workout

 

Then you add in what he calls "plug-ins" for any accessory work. Here's the thread on his website that describes it. If you google around, you'll find other plug-ins that people do. One that comes up a lot is by somebody named Phrack on reddit. He adds in rows. I do one day of barbell rows, one day of dumbbell rows, and one day of lat pulldowns. If you read the book, he talks about adding in work beyond weightlifting, which is what it seems like you would like for the sake of flexibility, keeping up with kids, etc.

[Revson]

I did Starting Strength for a long time and I had similar results. Recently, I switched up to a 4 day upper/lower split that looks something like this:

 

Monday

Bench press - warmup, 3x5 work sets

Rows (barbell or dumbell) - 3x8

DB overhead press - 3x8

Pulldowns - 3x8

arm isolation work if I'm feeling saucy

5 minutes of some sort of conditioning (rowing machine 30s on/off, kettlebell swings, sprints if the basketball court is clear)

 

Tuesday

Deadlift - warmup to 2x5 work sets and some heavy singles

Front Squat - 3-4x6

 

Thursday

Barbell OHP - warmup to 4x4 work sets

Pullups - 4x max reps

DB incline bench - 3x8

Cable row - 3x8

maybe some arm stuff

Conditioning like Monday

 

Friday

Squats - warmup to 3x5 work sets, maybe some heavy singles

Stiff leg or Romanian deadlift - 4x6

 

 

 

Another big thing I'm working on is my diet. I finally starting counting calories and tracking macros at the start of the new year and found I was drastically overestimating my protein intake and underestimating my total calories. Since then I've managed to lose around 10 pounds and I've set PRs or close to it on my big lifts.

[jfreaksho]

I'm in the same boat- my flexibility is terrible, my lifts haven't been going up, and I keep "tweaking" things (mostly due to the mobility issues).

 

I'm rebuilding my program: Gymnastic Bodies Foundation 1 and Handstand 1, plus squats and deadlifts.  When the weather is better I'll add in some sprints, long slow runs, and pace work.  The GBF1/H1 programs have more than enough upperbody for me, and are fantastic at identifying and eliminating weaknesses and imbalances and mobility problems that I never noticed before.  Squats and deadlifts will probably be continued on a 5/3/1 program, 1-2x per week for each of those. 

 

The running will be just enough to maintain a decent score on my fitness tests, somewhere in the 13-14 minute range for two miles.

[insanity]

My ex was doing 5x5 Stronglifts and the more weight he added, the longer his workouts got. It got to the point where he was spending a good 1.5-2.5 hours per workout, PLUS mobility work every day. So it does seem to be a very time consuming program at the heavier weights.

 

Finding a new program that fits into your life better sounds like the way to go.

It shouldn't have lasted that long, the most you're supposed to rest is 3 minutes, and there's a max of 15 sets of exercises, so you should only be at 45 minutes to an hour.

[jfreaksho]

It shouldn't have lasted that long, the most you're supposed to rest is 3 minutes, and there's a max of 15 sets of exercises, so you should only be at 45 minutes to an hour.

Even the app says you should rest up to 5 minutes, which makes for 25 minutes for the worksets of each exercise, plus plate changes, warmups, and actual lifting time for each set.  I've easily spent 90 minutes when I was squatting 1.5xBW for 5x5.  When I finally went to 3x5, my workouts went back down to the timeframe you describe.

[insanity]

Even the app says you should rest up to 5 minutes, which makes for 25 minutes for the worksets of each exercise, plus plate changes, warmups, and actual lifting time for each set.  I've easily spent 90 minutes when I was squatting 1.5xBW for 5x5.  When I finally went to 3x5, my workouts went back down to the timeframe you describe.

Then I must have missed something, I just looked at mine and the time says 1.5 and 3 minutes...Where would I find 5?

[Dradis]

Then I must have missed something, I just looked at mine and the time says 1.5 and 3 minutes...Where would I find 5?

 

If you fail a set it says 5 mins. It only happens on heavier sets of squats that i've seen, but then i'm still light on the upper body ones and deads are 1 set.

 

I had to switch off SL too because it was taking too long especially if you warm up, and follow the warm up sets from the app. I was doing like 8 or 9 squat sets alone.

I've shortened my workouts and been reinvigorated by switching to an upper/lower split. Both twice per week. I'm squatting slightly less than on SL (2 instead of 3) but doing the rest twice per week (instead of 1.5). For upper i rotate the barbell movement and the machine equivalent to save a bit of time.

[insanity]

If you fail a set it says 5 mins. It only happens on heavier sets of squats that i've seen, but then i'm still light on the upper body ones and deads are 1 set.

 

I had to switch off SL too because it was taking too long especially if you warm up, and follow the warm up sets from the app. I was doing like 8 or 9 squat sets alone.

I've shortened my workouts and been reinvigorated by switching to an upper/lower split. Both twice per week. I'm squatting slightly less than on SL (2 instead of 3) but doing the rest twice per week (instead of 1.5). For upper i rotate the barbell movement and the machine equivalent to save a bit of time.

OOooohhhh.... I haven't reached failure yet, so then I stand corrected.

[hblyne]

I don't know how long he was resting between sets, but when you take everything into account; warm ups, racking etc, it is time consuming. On top of his three main lifts he'd be doing conditioning stuff and going for single rep maximums sometimes too.

[Retxab]

I had to switch off SL too because it was taking too long especially if you warm up, and follow the warm up sets from the app. I was doing like 8 or 9 squat sets alone.

 

My understanding is that an actual 5x5 at working weight is one of the new things StrongLifts brought to strength training, and it's not one that's met with universal approval. If you look up classic 5x5 programs (like Bill Starr's programs, still popular today in Madcow and similar routines), they're usually "ramp up" programs with only the last set at full weight. Effectively in the classic programs, 5x5 includes warmup sets.

 

I can't sustain a per-session linear progression for anything longer than a couple of weeks anyway, but if I could I think I'd use a Starting Strength or Greyskull derivative rather than StrongLifts. 3x5 working sets makes more sense to me, and the guys behind those programs have a better training pedigree than Mehdi.