Best way to combine cardio and strength

[Sabina]

Hello!

 

I'm new in these parts and still getting a bit lost. If I'm posting something here that's already addressed somewhere else - please let me know! One of my fitness goals is to become a faster runner. I see three avenues to that - get stronger, improve my flexibility and do some speed workouts. I'm trying to figure out the best approach. Is it better to try speed and strength training on the same day, so I can have a rest day afterwards, or alternate speed one day and strength the next? I'm busy with a child and a full time job, so I need the most time-effective approach.

 

If you have any suggestions or advice - that would be great!

[Machete]

2 hours ago, Sabina said:

Hello!

 

I'm new in these parts and still getting a bit lost. If I'm posting something here that's already addressed somewhere else - please let me know! One of my fitness goals is to become a faster runner. I see three avenues to that - get stronger, improve my flexibility and do some speed workouts. I'm trying to figure out the best approach. Is it better to try speed and strength training on the same day, so I can have a rest day afterwards, or alternate speed one day and strength the next? I'm busy with a child and a full time job, so I need the most time-effective approach.

 

If you have any suggestions or advice - that would be great!

 

Faster runner in what? Do you have any way of quantifying that (e.g. marathon time, 400m, 40yd...)?

[Sabina]

Half-marathon. Fastest recent time is a little over 2 hours - fastest ever is a little under 1 hr 50. I'm running the event I set my fastest time at next March and I want to try and beat it!

[Irroxin]

Well I've always learned that if you have a goal, such as running a half-marathon, then the best way to practice is to do it, right?

 

I think I heard on a podcast somewhere that when you make the run more difficult, it will be easier when you actually have to run. Like, if you're running on the treadmill, bring up the incline more to make the run more difficult. I've also seen leg weights or people holding small dumbbells, but that's up to you. 

 

I do know that when running, leg strength is important and cardiovascular fitness, so running, stair climbing, hiking, leg strength training, and cycling? 

[Sabina]

16 hours ago, Irroxin said:

Well I've always learned that if you have a goal, such as running a half-marathon, then the best way to practice is to do it, right?

 

I think I heard on a podcast somewhere that when you make the run more difficult, it will be easier when you actually have to run. Like, if you're running on the treadmill, bring up the incline more to make the run more difficult. I've also seen leg weights or people holding small dumbbells, but that's up to you. 

 

I do know that when running, leg strength is important and cardiovascular fitness, so running, stair climbing, hiking, leg strength training, and cycling? 

 

Good ideas - thanks. I hadn't thought of stair climbing. I'll give that a try. The place I live is a very one-story city, but there's a 17 story building close to where I work. I'll go there!

[Dilnad]

Jason Fitzgerald from Stengthrunning says the best way to get faster is to run more. When I trained for marathons last season I smoked a 5k at paces I never knew possible. I also PRd a half marathon significantly. That being said, to get faster in running you also need to focus on running specific speed training on at least one run a week(remember that outside of specific speed training sessions, all other runs should be at a conversational pace).  

 

Strength training really has little to directly do with speed. Strength training is a support thing. Strong legs and body = healthy runner.  

 

As for the whens. I like run then immediately lift before my body realizes how pooped it is

[Sabina]

On 7/25/2017 at 3:46 AM, Dilnad said:

Jason Fitzgerald from Stengthrunning says the best way to get faster is to run more. When I trained for marathons last season I smoked a 5k at paces I never knew possible. I also PRd a half marathon significantly. That being said, to get faster in running you also need to focus on running specific speed training on at least one run a week(remember that outside of specific speed training sessions, all other runs should be at a conversational pace).  

 

Strength training really has little to directly do with speed. Strength training is a support thing. Strong legs and body = healthy runner.  

 

As for the whens. I like run then immediately lift before my body realizes how pooped it is

Thanks! I usually get up early and run before I'm awake enough to think about it. I'll tack on strength training immediately after that.

[Sabina]

On 7/25/2017 at 3:46 AM, Dilnad said:

Jason Fitzgerald from Stengthrunning says the best way to get faster is to run more. When I trained for marathons last season I smoked a 5k at paces I never knew possible. I also PRd a half marathon significantly. That being said, to get faster in running you also need to focus on running specific speed training on at least one run a week(remember that outside of specific speed training sessions, all other runs should be at a conversational pace).  

 

Strength training really has little to directly do with speed. Strength training is a support thing. Strong legs and body = healthy runner.  

 

As for the whens. I like run then immediately lift before my body realizes how pooped it is

 

I should also add... I just read your story in the NF blog. Totally amazing! And really motivational. I'm so impressed with everything you have achieved. Makes my efforts to get my diet in better shape and improve my running seem much more achievable. You're an inspiration.

[Machete]

On 7/19/2017 at 7:34 AM, Sabina said:

Half-marathon. Fastest recent time is a little over 2 hours - fastest ever is a little under 1 hr 50. I'm running the event I set my fastest time at next March and I want to try and beat it!

 

Faster than mine. I've only done one of each. The Half was easy, I trained for it with two days of lifting, a medium run in the middle of the week, and a long one one the weekend. Didn't do much speedwork, I just concentrated on slowly upping the distance and maintaining my 180 bpm cadence while maintaining a heart rate of under 150 bpm. The Full was a disaster. I tried following Hal Higdon's Novice program, but couldn't keep up with the volume, because life. I tried Brian MacKenzie's 12-week program from The 4-Hour Body, and it didn't really prepare me for more than the first half; I had to mostly walk the rest of it, and limp for the next week.

 

On 7/25/2017 at 6:46 AM, Dilnad said:

Jason Fitzgerald from Stengthrunning says the best way to get faster is to run more. When I trained for marathons last season I smoked a 5k at paces I never knew possible. I also PRd a half marathon significantly. That being said, to get faster in running you also need to focus on running specific speed training on at least one run a week(remember that outside of specific speed training sessions, all other runs should be at a conversational pace).  

 

Strength training really has little to directly do with speed. Strength training is a support thing. Strong legs and body = healthy runner.  

 

As for the whens. I like run then immediately lift before my body realizes how pooped it is

 

Pretty much this. Ken Mierke said "Nearly all runners do their slow runs too fast, and their fast runs too slow." I'd say treat your runs like practice sessions rather than workouts. Have something you're working on, whether it be your footstrike, alignment, breathing, arm swing, stride frequency, cardiac output, etc.for every session. Your weekly long run is your sport-specific session or kind of a dress rehearsal. You probably will not be running the vast majority your race at an anaerobic pace, so practicing keeping it aerobic (i.e. conversational pace) will prepare you better for race day.

 

Definitely lift, to keep your bone density, joint integrity, and muscle mass up if anything. I'd prefer keeping the run days and lifting days separate. Sticking to low-volume strength training, heavy weights, 3-5 multi-joint exercises, 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps with 3-5 minutes of rest between exercises would be ideal; because of its contrast with aerobic running it won't compete for resources in training and recovery. If you must do everything in one day, I would put it in the order of short sprints/jumps first, lifting/strength second, and long run/metcon third; from most neurologically-taxing to the least.

 

And get some mobility going. Ready To Run is a great resource for this.

[OptimusPrime69]

One word. Kettlebells. Check out stuff by Pavel Tsatsouline. Kettlebell swings are probably one of the best all around exercises for improving just about everything. 

 

[Dilnad]

On 7/28/2017 at 9:11 AM, Sabina said:

 

I should also add... I just read your story in the NF blog. Totally amazing! And really motivational. I'm so impressed with everything you have achieved. Makes my efforts to get my diet in better shape and improve my running seem much more achievable. You're an inspiration.

Thank you very much. It's been a long journey and I have to start again, one more time LOL. Mono has had me totally out of all fitness for over a month now. Doctor told me I have to begin running extremely small distances (a mile or two) for a bit(Which sucks after my first marathon in April LOL). Lifting is going to be awhile. I've been playing diet ninja for a month now. Totally maintained weight. Probably lost definition and endurance. Life's a bitch. 

 

See the doctor Monday to see if I can return to physical stuffs

[Machete]

1 hour ago, OptimusPrime69 said:

One word. Kettlebells. Check out stuff by Pavel Tsatsouline. Kettlebell swings are probably one of the best all around exercises for improving just about everything.

 

That reminds me, there is an article on the StrongFirst blog about strength training for a half marathon.

 

I do believe just plugging in Simple & Sinister into one of Hal Higdon's plans would be fantastic. That might be one of the simplest, most efficient programs one can followfor a while. I was actually tested for my VO2max after mostly only kettlebell work and 4 months of zero running, and the result was categorized as either "excellent" or "superior."

[Isaac Clark]

Hey there! So, there are a few ways you can go about doing cardio and strength at the same time.

 

The first is to train them on the same day. Most studies I've seen recommend doing your cardio after your resistance routine, to maximize output. But honestly, the results of the study weren't exact ground-breaking, so you wouldn't be losing much at all if you chose to do cardio first.

 

Another option that many choose to do is split up their cardio and weight routines entirely. Some people choose to do this by doing weights in the morning and running in the evening, but if you wanted to split them up into different days entirely, that's fine.

 

Cardio is something you can do most every day, as long as you avoid injuries. A daily running routine should see you make pretty good progress for both your endurance and speed, both qualities essential to running your half marathon. Just remember to take a rest day or two every so often, especially as you get closer to the marathon itself.

 

Also, protein and a good amount of carbs will be your best friends in keeping you going the distance when you run. A lot of runners, myself included, find success by increasing those two nutrients in our diets, since they give you the energy to help both your running and lifting! No to mention protein will help you build your muscle mass, and make sure the muscle you've gained stays on you if you shed a few pounds from your running.

 

And lastly, I'm going to shamelessly plug the Ranger Guild. Our entire focus is building strength and cardio together! Swing by our forums to get some routine ideas or workouts, as well as some helpful advice, and stay for the GIFs of dooting skeletons. 

[Sabina]

On 7/28/2017 at 11:58 AM, Machete said:

 

Faster than mine. I've only done one of each. The Half was easy, I trained for it with two days of lifting, a medium run in the middle of the week, and a long one one the weekend. Didn't do much speedwork, I just concentrated on slowly upping the distance and maintaining my 180 bpm cadence while maintaining a heart rate of under 150 bpm. The Full was a disaster. I tried following Hal Higdon's Novice program, but couldn't keep up with the volume, because life. I tried Brian MacKenzie's 12-week program from The 4-Hour Body, and it didn't really prepare me for more than the first half; I had to mostly walk the rest of it, and limp for the next week.

 

 

Pretty much this. Ken Mierke said "Nearly all runners do their slow runs too fast, and their fast runs too slow." I'd say treat your runs like practice sessions rather than workouts. Have something you're working on, whether it be your footstrike, alignment, breathing, arm swing, stride frequency, cardiac output, etc.for every session. Your weekly long run is your sport-specific session or kind of a dress rehearsal. You probably will not be running the vast majority your race at an anaerobic pace, so practicing keeping it aerobic (i.e. conversational pace) will prepare you better for race day.

 

Definitely lift, to keep your bone density, joint integrity, and muscle mass up if anything. I'd prefer keeping the run days and lifting days separate. Sticking to low-volume strength training, heavy weights, 3-5 multi-joint exercises, 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps with 3-5 minutes of rest between exercises would be ideal; because of its contrast with aerobic running it won't compete for resources in training and recovery. If you must do everything in one day, I would put it in the order of short sprints/jumps first, lifting/strength second, and long run/metcon third; from most neurologically-taxing to the least.

 

And get some mobility going. Ready To Run is a great resource for this.

Thanks, Machete! Great suggestions, I'll give this a try. I've run a few marathons in the past, but the training volume is just impossible at the moment so I'm sticking with the half. For running in the past, I've trained for distance. I've never been overly competitive, but a year or so back I trained for a marathon, but had a family emergency two days before the event which prevented me from running it. For a change of pace I tried strength training for a while. It was great - I ran on a marathon relay team a couple of months later and the strength combined with the distance training from the non-marathon turned into 7.5 minute miles for 10 miles. I've never done anything like that before.... I want to do it again!

 

I'm thinking about how to fit different days with strength training in. I might try running four days and doing strength on a different two days possibly at work during lunch. I can stash some weights somewhere. I'll try it for a week or two and see how it works out.

[Sabina]

15 hours ago, OptimusPrime69 said:

One word. Kettlebells. Check out stuff by Pavel Tsatsouline. Kettlebell swings are probably one of the best all around exercises for improving just about everything. 

 

I'll have a look - thanks. I've never used a kettlebell before... They always look kind of odd. I'll do some homework and give it a try!

[Sabina]

13 hours ago, Machete said:

 

That reminds me, there is an article on the StrongFirst blog about strength training for a half marathon.

 

I do believe just plugging in Simple & Sinister into one of Hal Higdon's plans would be fantastic. That might be one of the simplest, most efficient programs one can followfor a while. I was actually tested for my VO2max after mostly only kettlebell work and 4 months of zero running, and the result was categorized as either "excellent" or "superior."

Good article - thanks. I need to buy a kettlebell now, I totally want to try the omelette described in the article. I like how she summarized what she did. Really nice and clear, I can use this as a guide.

[Sabina]

8 hours ago, Isaac Clark said:

Hey there! So, there are a few ways you can go about doing cardio and strength at the same time.

 

The first is to train them on the same day. Most studies I've seen recommend doing your cardio after your resistance routine, to maximize output. But honestly, the results of the study weren't exact ground-breaking, so you wouldn't be losing much at all if you chose to do cardio first.

 

Another option that many choose to do is split up their cardio and weight routines entirely. Some people choose to do this by doing weights in the morning and running in the evening, but if you wanted to split them up into different days entirely, that's fine.

 

Cardio is something you can do most every day, as long as you avoid injuries. A daily running routine should see you make pretty good progress for both your endurance and speed, both qualities essential to running your half marathon. Just remember to take a rest day or two every so often, especially as you get closer to the marathon itself.

 

Also, protein and a good amount of carbs will be your best friends in keeping you going the distance when you run. A lot of runners, myself included, find success by increasing those two nutrients in our diets, since they give you the energy to help both your running and lifting! No to mention protein will help you build your muscle mass, and make sure the muscle you've gained stays on you if you shed a few pounds from your running.

 

And lastly, I'm going to shamelessly plug the Ranger Guild. Our entire focus is building strength and cardio together! Swing by our forums to get some routine ideas or workouts, as well as some helpful advice, and stay for the GIFs of dooting skeletons. 

Thanks! I'm not sure which of these options will work best for me so I'm going to try a few weeks of each and see which goes best. Maybe the first will work great and I won't make it to the others, we'll see!

 

Nutrition is my huge challenge area. For a long time I had too many carbs and not enough protein and getting away from that is proving difficult.  I was vegetarian for about 17 years, not because I had an objection to eating meat, but because of the terrible treatment of the animals. About four months ago, I realized I needed more in my diet and had the money now to buy humanely raised animal products. It's been an entertaining transition - I don't remember how to cook any meat dishes! But I am getting more protein now, while still over doing it on carbs. I'm spending a lot of time in the academy nutrition area at the moment...

[Sabina]

8 hours ago, Isaac Clark said:

And lastly, I'm going to shamelessly plug the Ranger Guild. Our entire focus is building strength and cardio together! Swing by our forums to get some routine ideas or workouts, as well as some helpful advice, and stay for the GIFs of dooting skeletons. 

I meant to say... I'll check out the Ranger Guild. Sounds like it might be my kind of place!

[Sabina]

14 hours ago, Dilnad said:

Thank you very much. It's been a long journey and I have to start again, one more time LOL. Mono has had me totally out of all fitness for over a month now. Doctor told me I have to begin running extremely small distances (a mile or two) for a bit(Which sucks after my first marathon in April LOL). Lifting is going to be awhile. I've been playing diet ninja for a month now. Totally maintained weight. Probably lost definition and endurance. Life's a bitch. 

 

See the doctor Monday to see if I can return to physical stuffs

On the one hand, that totally sucks. But it's awesome that you've maintained your weight and not let this derail you. Good luck for your appointment on Monday - I hope you get cleared to do more.

[Isaac Clark]

2 minutes ago, Sabina said:

Nutrition is my huge challenge area. For a long time I had too many carbs and not enough protein and getting away from that is proving difficult.  I was vegetarian for about 17 years, not because I had an objection to eating meat, but because of the terrible treatment of the animals. About four months ago, I realized I needed more in my diet and had the money now to buy humanely raised animal products. It's been an entertaining transition - I don't remember how to cook any meat dishes! But I am getting more protein now, while still over doing it on carbs. I'm spending a lot of time in the academy nutrition area at the moment...

 

Nutrition is a stumbling block for many people. I still struggle with eating healthily myself. If you want to remain vegetarian, there are other ways to get your protein in very effectively without having to eat meats! There are the obvious things, like protein powders, protein bars, and other supplements like that. But even things like eggs and beans have protein in them. But hey, if you find yourself enjoying getting back into cooking and eating meats, more power to you!

[Sabina]

2 hours ago, Isaac Clark said:

 

Nutrition is a stumbling block for many people. I still struggle with eating healthily myself. If you want to remain vegetarian, there are other ways to get your protein in very effectively without having to eat meats! There are the obvious things, like protein powders, protein bars, and other supplements like that. But even things like eggs and beans have protein in them. But hey, if you find yourself enjoying getting back into cooking and eating meats, more power to you!

I'm totally back to meat-eating, as long as the source is good and humanely raised. Chicken and tuna... Mmmm.