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scotticus

The IF/Leangains Mutual Support Thread

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If anyone needs help with the calculator, feel free to send me a PM. I've helped a few folks figure out their macros and happy to work with anyone who wants to give it a try.

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BTW, for the curious, I'm currently doing:

Workout days: 1750 (180p/30f/180c)

Rest days: 1400 (180p/54f/50c)

I've tweaked it a bit from the calculator values -- I tend to do better on higher amounts of protein, and I increased my carbs on rest days so that I can still have a few lbs of veggies (mwahaha) just not as starchy ones.

One thing I'm loving: being able to have high-fat treats (almond butter, dark chocolate, etc.) on rest days, and high-carb treats (apple chips, sweet potato fries) on workout days. I'm never more than a day or two away from anything I'm craving. :)

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If anyone needs help with the calculator, feel free to send me a PM. I've helped a few folks figure out their macros and happy to work with anyone who wants to give it a try.

I owe Catspaw for helping me with mine. After she explained it... a lightbulb turned on! Everything made sense.

@Scotticus about water loss. You're not kidding. One night I woke up in the middle of the night with the fiercest desire to pee. Just thought I'd share.

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I have a question: I alternate days of strength training and playing footbag (cardio). Up until now I have been running a deficit on the cardio days. Using that calculator should I use the Cardio days as rest days or should I only use the one true rest day I take a week as the rest day?

I think that this will depend on your goals.

I'm not an expert by any means, but I can say that aside from warm-ups and cooldowns, my leangains master has forbidden cardio while I'm cutting (because I'm trying to preserve/gain strength while shedding fat). As long as you are consistent, you can get away with a lot though. If doing cardio on a caloric deficit isn't holding you back in any way, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to keep it and treat it as a rest day. You might, however, want to revisit that if you were to start having problems with recovery, etc.

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Thank you muchly for this thread! This will hopefully help me stay on course.

*hides the wrappers from A&W*

Wow, minimum 374 calories per day. I could eat one can of sardines and an apple and top that sucker out.

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I owe Catspaw for helping me with mine. After she explained it... a lightbulb turned on! Everything made sense.

@Scotticus about water loss. You're not kidding. One night I woke up in the middle of the night with the fiercest desire to pee. Just thought I'd share.

Yeah, I've been waking up about an hour early do some bladder voiding meself. It's a good deal overall though - less retained water = more chin-ups!

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Awesome! Glad I was able to help.

And in other news, I have no idea how to use the thing. Further, I have to admit to myself that I have no idea what this looks like in combination with a Primal lifestyle. Pretty much to this point, I've just been eating Primal Style in that eight hour window, and added a piece of fruit for training days. Anybody got any insights into how this works?

LeanGains isn't specifically paleo, primal, or whatevs. It works no matter what you eat. All that matters is you eat clean protein, carbs, and fat and you're good. Just count everything.

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I have a question: I alternate days of strength training and playing footbag (cardio). Up until now I have been running a deficit on the cardio days. Using that calculator should I use the Cardio days as rest days or should I only use the one true rest day I take a week as the rest day?

Footbag???

Anyways, it really depends on how intense the cardio is. Anaerobic stuff you really need to count as a workout day, as insufficient carbs will make you bonk early. If it's easier going, by all means treat it as rest.

Banning cardio does seem kinda harsh though. For Leangains style, it's probably more for the fact that adding exercise = eat even MORE in a short time period, which may already be difficult for some. The stomach can only hold so much.

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LeanGains isn't specifically paleo, primal, or whatevs. It works no matter what you eat. All that matters is you eat clean protein, carbs, and fat and you're good. Just count everything.

Gotcha. So, Primal style foods, but Leangains style ratios? Am I understanding properly?

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Banning cardio does seem kinda harsh though. For Leangains style, it's probably more for the fact that adding exercise = eat even MORE in a short time period, which may already be difficult for some. The stomach can only hold so much.

In my case it's because I run the risk of dipping into straight up skinny territory if I'm not careful (as opposed to the target of very lean and long muscled). I think that moderate cardio is also being held in reserve as a tool to use should I encounter any significant plateaus later on.

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Gotcha. So, Primal style foods, but Leangains style ratios? Am I understanding properly?

Sounds about right to me. As long as you hit your macros (within a reasonable tolerance of course), you can eat whatever you please!

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Oh, hackey sack. Wow, that's still around.

I LOLed.

I bet that does a lot for coordination, huh?

did you guys enter your bf %? I only have a rough idea of what mine could be...but I honestly think it's wrong (calipers+some online test thing=berderp). On the plus side, we have a bod pod coming to my gym soon (or hopefully soon).

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The one thing that the eating window/cycling plans leave me confused on is the concept that it seems to assume that recovery is a just after working out thing, whereas anyone that has ever had DOMS knows that recovery is a multiday process.

Are there any sort of plans like this that try to keep you in a caloric suplus for sleeping hours and caloric deficit during waking hours? That would seem to be ideal for maximizing both growth and fat loss; repair and growth occurs most efficiently while asleep, calorie burn occurs at a higher rate while awake; fat loss really relies on a deficit or a need to fuel movement.

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Are there any sort of plans like this that try to keep you in a caloric suplus for sleeping hours and caloric deficit during waking hours? That would seem to be ideal for maximizing both growth and fat loss; repair and growth occurs most efficiently while asleep, calorie burn occurs at a higher rate while awake; fat loss really relies on a deficit or a need to fuel movement.

Some eat-stop-eat plans and the warrior diet are kinda like this.

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Also, just a quick point about the calculator:

It's a starting point, not a religious text. Use it to find numbers that seem reasonable and doable to you, try it out for a week, then adjust.

I've adjusted mine to:

- Up the rest day calories by 100 (too hungry) and lowered the workout day calories by 100 to make up for it.

- Up the fat on rest days (so I can have more high-fat treats like the 1/3 cup tahini I ate straight from the jar yesterday) and lowered the carbs

- Up the protein on all days, because it helps keep me full

If you are doing calorie/macro cycling, however, (and you can do IF without it) here are three main principles you don't want to tweak (according to leangains theory), regardless of whether you're losing, recomping, or gaining:

1) Heavy lifting days shouldn't be in calorie deficit.

2) On days you eat high carb, eat low fat.

3) On low calorie rest days, keep protein high.

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If you're eating enough following a workout, you should still be in a surplus come bed-time. I don't see many calorie cycling models that don't see you in a fed state upon heading to sleep, especially when building muscle. So you basically stumbled onto one of the tenents of intermittant fasting; metabolism is highest upon waking, therefore work-out while fasted at that point but refrain from eating. Later, at a slower point in the day, eat lots and re-build the muscle.

As for the multi day thing, DOMS isn't really an important factor in recovery; a proper dynamic warm-up should see you through a workout regardless of DOMS presence.

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If you're eating enough following a workout, you should still be in a surplus come bed-time. I don't see many calorie cycling models that don't see you in a fed state upon heading to sleep, especially when building muscle. So you basically stumbled onto one of the tenents of intermittant fasting; metabolism is highest upon waking, therefore work-out while fasted at that point but refrain from eating. Later, at a slower point in the day, eat lots and re-build the muscle.

As for the multi day thing, DOMS isn't really an important factor in recovery; a proper dynamic warm-up should see you through a workout regardless of DOMS presence.

You said exactly what I wanted to say but was unsure how to say it.

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As for the multi day thing, DOMS isn't really an important factor in recovery; a proper dynamic warm-up should see you through a workout regardless of DOMS presence.

No, I was using it to point out that recovery from a single workout takes multiple days. Eating for recovery in a cyclic way really doesn't make sense.

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No, I was using it to point out that recovery from a single workout takes multiple days. Eating for recovery in a cyclic way really doesn't make sense.

Even in caloric deficit, protein is high on all days, so I'm not seeing this as a problem. Martin Berkhan has spent a long time studying this stuff and tons of people have seen good result from Lean Gains. It may not make sense to you, but it's certainly working.

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Even in caloric deficit, protein is high on all days, so I'm not seeing this as a problem. Martin Berkhan has spent a long time studying this stuff and tons of people have seen good result from Lean Gains. It may not make sense to you, but it's certainly working.

Don't get me wrong, it is obvious that it works. To understand is to gain the ability to manipulate, adjust, and adapt. Keeping a constant high protein for recovery is a concept that I use as well and central to my BMR theory. I fail to see any point in cycling the other 2 macros though unless it has something to do with recovery.

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Don't get me wrong, it is obvious that it works. To understand is to gain the ability to manipulate, adjust, and adapt. Keeping a constant high protein for recovery is a concept that I use as well and central to my BMR theory. I fail to see any point in cycling the other 2 macros though unless it has something to do with recovery.

I think part of it may be that when in a deficit, the body is somewhat more macro-agnositc, burning both carbs and fat to various extents depending on glycogen/fat levels in the body. However, when in a surplus the body will convert dietary fat to body fat quite readily, whereas carbohydrate generally doesn't necessarily get converted to fat if glycogen reserves aren't full.

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