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The IF/Leangains Mutual Support Thread


scotticus

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I would assume just use Sat and Sun as rest days. I think there's at thing on the calculator where you adjust your schedule (days per week: 7, workouts: 5) It's near the bottom. I don't know how that changes things as mine is pretty standard.

Forgot to add my question(s):

So, today is the third day of my macro cycling experiment. I may or may not have eaten enough yesterday as it was just a cardio day so I kept it pretty close to rest.. just had an additional protein supplement.

1. I'm feeling a wee bit spacey and light headed with a constant nag in my stomach. Is this something that will go away or does it mean I should have eaten more yesterday (zumba for cardio) than I did? I ate a bit more than my regular rest days... but just by protein. Monday and Tuesday I got a couple hunger pangs that went away when I got preoccupied. Today is not like that.

2. I answered when I went back to look at the calculator. So, just 1.

"I'm just going to remember to not eat like an asshole most of the time" - MoC

three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: one must squat.- Brobert Frost
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Yeah, you can adjust # of workouts too. Just remember the golden rule of weight loss, which still applies: less needs to come in than goes out. So like, if you work out five days, rest two, maybe go 5% over on work days and 15% under on rest days? An admitted drawback to IF of all kinds is that results come in much slower than more aggressive programs.

As for the spacey-ness, did you change your overall macro profile at all? If you changed how many carbs you eat in a day, you could be close to keto and feel spacey... It's also possible that you didn't eat enough in general. I can get the same sort of feeling if I don't eat enough following rugby.

Why must I put a name on the foods I choose to eat and how I choose to eat them? Rather than tell people that I eat according to someone else's arbitrary rules, I'd rather just tell them, I eat healthy. And no, my diet does not have a name.My daily battle log!

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so to make sure i understand this....I can just hit a little bit of juice before a workout and this does the same as the BCAA thing? its purely to put some sugar in the body to get my body going?

Umm... no? Who said this? That's silly.

Can anyone explain in detail why BCAA's are needed? Because there are differing opinions out there on that for IF. Also how can amino acids be branch chained?

Not sure I can answer your question in detail, but I'd like to point out a couple things.

1) This isn't just about intermittent fasting, it's also lean gains, which is why BCAAs are important.

2) As I've already said, they're needed so you can recover and still not break your fast.

3) How can they not be branch chained? Not sure what you're inquiring.

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How do you manage this if you work out five days a week? I do heavy upper body MWF, heavy lower body + heavy bag TTH, nothing on Saturday and Sunday. Are all five weekdays 10-20% over days?

Also, where is a good place to buy BCAAs? Chain stores, something nationwide. Couldn't find them at Walmart, CVS, or Walgreens...GNC? I'll buy online if necessary, but I prefer to buy locally.

GNC. That's where I get mine. As to 5 days workout, you're probably going to have to choose some of the days as rest days anyway. Good question to ask someone more knowledgable. Hopefully catspaw can answer for you.

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As for the spacey-ness, did you change your overall macro profile at all? If you changed how many carbs you eat in a day, you could be close to keto and feel spacey... It's also possible that you didn't eat enough in general. I can get the same sort of feeling if I don't eat enough following rugby.

Yeah, I've been there post workout, too. I'm feeling better today so I'll keep track of how Tues/Wed goes next week...see if I can't figure out which one it is!

"I'm just going to remember to not eat like an asshole most of the time" - MoC

three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: one must squat.- Brobert Frost
 Half-Elf Warrior | Current Challenge
 New Battle Log | Old Battle Log
Special thanks to AkLulu for drawing my awesome avatar!

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let me understand this.

16 (+ for me) hours no food.

BCAA's about 30 minutes prior to workout

Eat tons of food (it can be anything?) and be sure I get my intake all in in this time frame.

sleep.

That's it? Seriously?

And i can eat a meal here or there occasionally outside of this limited eating window?

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How do you manage this if you work out five days a week? I do heavy upper body MWF, heavy lower body + heavy bag TTH, nothing on Saturday and Sunday. Are all five weekdays 10-20% over days?

Also, where is a good place to buy BCAAs? Chain stores, something nationwide. Couldn't find them at Walmart, CVS, or Walgreens...GNC? I'll buy online if necessary, but I prefer to buy locally.

Leangains is a minimalist approach. Both Martin and Andy recommend working out three days a week max, the idea being that you can get ripped as all getout while still having lots of time to do other stuff. I'm sure that the protocol can be adjusted, but if you're going hard 5 day in a row it's going to be hard to do the calorie/carb cycling.

let me understand this.

16 (+ for me) hours no food.

BCAA's about 30 minutes prior to workout

Eat tons of food (it can be anything?) and be sure I get my intake all in in this time frame.

sleep.

That's it? Seriously?

And i can eat a meal here or there occasionally outside of this limited eating window?

Pretty much. You only need the BCAAs if you're working out fasted. Also, you can eat a crap ton of food, but only if it meets your macros. I've found that the limiting factor is fat on workout days and carbs on rest days. Also, as with all things what you do 80-90% of the time is going to give you success, so if you have the odd weekend brunch with friends or whatever, it's not going to completely ruin your progress.

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let me understand this.

16 (+ for me) hours no food.

BCAA's about 30 minutes prior to workout

Eat tons of food (it can be anything?) and be sure I get my intake all in in this time frame.

sleep.

That's it? Seriously?

And i can eat a meal here or there occasionally outside of this limited eating window?

Not exactly. Did you read those links? Hehe. You have to find your macro profile (math) or use the calculator and it depends on your goals. Want to cut? Want to remain the same body fat but gain muscle? What's the goal?

BCAAs are 15 minutes prior or immediately post workout.

So, let's say your goal is cutting. Your profile might look something like mine.

2100 calories on workout days. High protein, high carb, low fat.

1500 on rest days. High protein, low carb, high fat.

The amount of protein, carb, fat, and calories all depends on what your goals are.

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Pretty much. You only need the BCAAs if you're working out fasted. Also, you can eat a crap ton of food, but only if it meets your macros. I've found that the limiting factor is fat on workout days and carbs on rest days. Also, as with all things what you do 80-90% of the time is going to give you success, so if you have the odd weekend brunch with friends or whatever, it's not going to completely ruin your progress.

okay. so by "macros" you mean the pie chart that shows "x" grams of protein this day and "x" grams of carbs etc?

and should i enter in my GOAL weight in the calculator?

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okay. so by "macros" you mean the pie chart that shows "x" grams of protein this day and "x" grams of carbs etc?

and should i enter in my GOAL weight in the calculator?

No, current weight unless it asks for goal weight but I don't remember. And yes, that's what I meant by macros. Your goal, based on if youre wanting to gain muscle and lose fat, determines what and how much you'll eat on a certain day.

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No, current weight unless it asks for goal weight but I don't remember. And yes, that's what I meant by macros. Your goal, based on if youre wanting to gain muscle and lose fat, determines what and how much you'll eat on a certain day.

i'm going to go back to this calculator today and check it out. write it down so i can memorize it. Now Scotticus mentioned that working out more than 3 times a week may not be a good idea but...well I sort of have to for my goals. Trying to get to around 200lbs (192 now) and want under 10% bf but not way under. so does my eating change? For the purpose of increased mass?

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so to make sure i understand this....I can just hit a little bit of juice before a workout and this does the same as the BCAA thing? its purely to put some sugar in the body to get my body going?

You misquoted me :( In no way, shape, or form do BCAA's behave like sugar does. What I said was that a small amount of sugar ingested before training raises blood sugar from low-normal levels created because of the fast to normal levels. It just helps prevent the drained feeling a lot of people get when exercising fasted. No relation to BCAA ingestion at all, of which the primary function is to prevent muscle catabolism WHILE fasting.

Scotticus also alluded to this, but if you train more than 3 days a week, cutting/bulking on IF can't really work that well. That amount of training suggests you're training FOR something, rather than just general prep, and you should ALWAYS properly fuel your body while in pre-season/season.

I've been a breakfast eater all my life. How long until the stomach = black hole feeling during the morning hours goes away?

It takes time. Doesn't really help that hunger hormones naturally upregulate while in a fasted state, which you generally are after sleeping all night.

Within a week or two though, it's not unreasonable to feel hungry-ish for an hour or so and then for it go away. Before long, you'll just start associating it with normal morning grogginess upon waking.

Why must I put a name on the foods I choose to eat and how I choose to eat them? Rather than tell people that I eat according to someone else's arbitrary rules, I'd rather just tell them, I eat healthy. And no, my diet does not have a name.My daily battle log!

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I'm on the road all next week, and don't really want to rock the boat with my current routine, so I'm going to wait until I get home to implement IF protocol.

I've been a breakfast eater all my life. How long until the stomach = black hole feeling during the morning hours goes away?

But lol, this scares me.

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I've been a breakfast eater all my life. How long until the stomach = black hole feeling during the morning hours goes away?

Honestly, it took me a while.

Like, 2-3 weeks.

For some, they adjusted instantly. But I was a big breakfast eater my whole life. I do have to say, though, that now when it's noon (start of my feeding window) I'm /often/ like "really? already? I'm not hungry yet..."

You gotta experiment to find out what works for you.
PM me with any questions about, well, anything! :)
Current challenge: Catspaw Starts Strong

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i'm going to go back to this calculator today and check it out. write it down so i can memorize it. Now Scotticus mentioned that working out more than 3 times a week may not be a good idea but...well I sort of have to for my goals. Trying to get to around 200lbs (192 now) and want under 10% bf but not way under. so does my eating change? For the purpose of increased mass?

Then it gets more confusing. Like me, I'll be moving to 4 days a week in a few weeks, maybe sooner, depending. Anyway, as catspaw explained it to me, if you add a workout day, you'll have to subtract the difference in calories from your rest days.

Again, I'll use myself as an example.

2100 on workout days. 3 days a week.

1500 rest days. 4 days a week.

That's a total of 12,300 calories a week. If I calculate 4 workout days at 2100, that leaves me 3900 calories for my rest days. Divide by 3 (number of days left in the week), and I now have 1300 calories for rest days.

Make sense?

If I did 5 workout days, that would leave me with 900 on rest days. Since that's so low, at that point I'd have to consider taking calories from my workout days. In this case, I could do 2000 (5 days a week) on workout days and 1150 on rest days (only 2 days).

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Also, if you could better measure how much energy you expect to expend on work-out days, you could fine tune the calorie intake on those days as well, so you don't steal so much from the overall weekly deficit.

Why must I put a name on the foods I choose to eat and how I choose to eat them? Rather than tell people that I eat according to someone else's arbitrary rules, I'd rather just tell them, I eat healthy. And no, my diet does not have a name.My daily battle log!

Link to post

Also just to throw out there, if you're working out (strength training) more than 4 days a week, this type of macro cycling will probably not work for you. Because then you're just eating high-carb most of the time.

You gotta experiment to find out what works for you.
PM me with any questions about, well, anything! :)
Current challenge: Catspaw Starts Strong

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Also just to throw out there, if you're working out (strength training) more than 4 days a week, this type of macro cycling will probably not work for you. Because then you're just eating high-carb most of the time.

Gotcha. I'm not going to change my 5 workouts a week schedule, but I think what I'm going to do is eat my 2,000 cal a day in an 8-hr window, but not worry about macro cycling per se, and just eat lower carb/higher fat on Saturday and Sunday.

The old believe everything; the middle aged suspect everything: the young know everything.

~Oscar Wilde

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I've been a breakfast eater all my life. How long until the stomach = black hole feeling during the morning hours goes away?

I note that it took a while for this to diminish for Catspaw, but it didn't take long for me - a week at the outside. I find that I struggle more with the lack of carbs by around dinner time on rest days...

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Also just to throw out there, if you're working out (strength training) more than 4 days a week, this type of macro cycling will probably not work for you. Because then you're just eating high-carb most of the time.

This. The guy that came up with the system did it specifically to avoid working out every single day / eating six meals a day. It's designed to keep you strong, lean, and with lot's of free time to do other non-fitness stuff. It's also designed such that if you're life gets really crazy, you can keep up the bare minimum and still look/feel/perform well. In that sense it's maintainable, whereas other systems might not be.

If you just really like fitness, sports, etc., 6 days a week, it might not be the thing for you.

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You misquoted me :( In no way, shape, or form do BCAA's behave like sugar does. What I said was that a small amount of sugar ingested before training raises blood sugar from low-normal levels created because of the fast to normal levels. It just helps prevent the drained feeling a lot of people get when exercising fasted. No relation to BCAA ingestion at all, of which the primary function is to prevent muscle catabolism WHILE fasting.

Scotticus also alluded to this, but if you train more than 3 days a week, cutting/bulking on IF can't really work that well. That amount of training suggests you're training FOR something, rather than just general prep, and you should ALWAYS properly fuel your body while in pre-season/season.

I see what you mean on the sugar thing. my bad.

So are you saying this is a bad idea for me? or that leangains is a bad idea for me? Or am I misunderstanding that as well?

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So are you saying this is a bad idea for me? or that leangains is a bad idea for me? Or am I misunderstanding that as well?

I'm not going to reply on AJ_rock's behalf, but I will suggest that you pick a few wrestlers whose form you might want to emulate and see if you can find out what they're doing. Obviously, you're not them so just doing what they do won't be the be all and end all, but it might give you some other ideas. I remember reading on CnP a while back that Triple H uses some form of ketogenic diet to stay lean AND huge. In short, more research, good sir :)

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