Mad Hatter's tea party

[LouCarJo]

All this stretching talk is interesting, if a bit beyond my simple mind ;-).  Question, though: @Mad Hatter, any theories as to why at my aerial studio, where so many are very flexible/mobile (I make no distinction) for stuff like the splits, bridges, etc, they are generally really bad at squatting?  I've noticed when we do warm-up things that involve bodyweight squats (and not necessarily very deep ones), their knees cave in, they end up with backs almost parallel to the floor, and generally look really uncomfortable.  What do you reckon - a consequence of prioritising certain types of flexibility/mobility over others?  

[LouCarJo]

19 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Yesterday the friend that I'm working confronted me about my hiding and then told me that his partner is actually rather upset with me and I felt I had to apologise to her. So I messaged her explaining at least a little bit why I didn't come/answer. This is something I find incredibly hard to do. I'm fairly open about my issues here on the forums, but in real life not many people know. I think it's only a few people that I've lived with that I couldn't hide it from that have an idea of what I'm going through at times, I don't think I've ever told anyone. But I'm glad I told her, not in very many words, because words are hard, but enough for her to understand. And after our chat I just feel so incredibly grateful that I have people around me close by that still love me even when I'm acting crazy. 

I'm glad you managed that chat, and hope that you will get some more understanding from them in the future.  

[sylph]

9 minutes ago, LouCarJo said:

All this stretching talk is interesting, if a bit beyond my simple mind ;-).  Question, though: @Mad Hatter, any theories as to why at my aerial studio, where so many are very flexible/mobile (I make no distinction) for stuff like the splits, bridges, etc, they are generally really bad at squatting?  I've noticed when we do warm-up things that involve bodyweight squats (and not necessarily very deep ones), their knees cave in, they end up with backs almost parallel to the floor, and generally look really uncomfortable.  What do you reckon - a consequence of prioritising certain types of flexibility/mobility over others?  

(Not hatter, obvs  )

 

My first guess would be that they don't squat much and haven't practiced the movement with good form enough to be able to perform it well, rather than an issue with flexibility or mobility. Most (adult) people don't instinctively know what a good squat looks like and without paying attention to form cues, will generally squat pretty crappily.

[KB Girl]

Discussing over tea would be nice Which reminds me, did that Europe nerd meeting ever happen? 

 

Back on topic; 

39 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

That's why I'd rather discuss things in more concrete anatomical and unambiguous terms.

I get that you need to use different words. I just don't think the words are not used in the right way and we'd be better of with more neutral, precise language. The discussion really is mostly about semantics.

Thing is, to discuss the topic.. and really even to think about the topic you need words to use.. I'm currently in the midst of teaching another bunch of wannabe-kettlebell-trainers/coaches and to help them learn to fix athletes issues I need words. If you know any concrete anatomical terms, that would be good. As it is now I always go through first defining what the words mean (as pertaining to our talk about it at least, haha). 

 

This is the way I teach it; 

1. flexibility = unconscious ROM, a combination of tissue and joint freedom/restrictions 

2. mobility = conscious ROM, a combination of flexibility, motor control and neurological freedom/restrictions

 

Mostly during my teaching I'm trying to hammer home that for 95% of the mobility issues we encounter with kettlebell athletes are not flexibility issues but motor control or neurological issues. I suppose I could use a different word than flexibility for the tissue/joint issue... suggestions? Then I could agree that flexibility and mobility are the same thing. Why not. 

 

I suppose when you'd be teaching contortionists, aerial or ehm... even animal walking coaches you'd have a very different chat about it, because probably flexibility(=tissue/joint freedom) is a far bigger issue there. 

 

I filmed that shoulder thing I was talking about.. it's not just the body protection against kettlebells, which seem dangerous to all of us but actually just.. just.. these really simple movements where we don't expect our CNS to actually restrict us. Excuse the pyjama bottoms, we're both a bit under the weather and I don't have to work until evening  

(video is hidden, so please don't share it randomly)

 

[RogueLibrarian]

Hi! I'm checking back in days late. I'm glad you're better. 

 

Depression is tough (among other reasons) because it makes you feel bad and embarrassed for not being able to cope with what should be ordinary situations, for no visible reason. It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't felt it. 

 

I've been feeling it a little lately too. I've come to accept as an article of faith that f I keep up with my exercise routine and other self-care stuff, it will help keep it at bay -- and it helps, it just doesn't fix it all. I'm glad you're coping! Lots of love. Great work this month.

[KB Girl]

15 minutes ago, LouCarJo said:

All this stretching talk is interesting, if a bit beyond my simple mind ;-).  Question, though: @Mad Hatter, any theories as to why at my aerial studio, where so many are very flexible/mobile (I make no distinction) for stuff like the splits, bridges, etc, they are generally really bad at squatting?  I've noticed when we do warm-up things that involve bodyweight squats (and not necessarily very deep ones), their knees cave in, they end up with backs almost parallel to the floor, and generally look really uncomfortable.  What do you reckon - a consequence of prioritising certain types of flexibility/mobility over others?  

That actually illustrates the difference again very well! They probably have perfectly alright flexibility to perform a squat, they just don't have the required motor control. Probably because they don't care to. 

[KB Girl]

Oh yeah I forgot to say I guess I've never had such a negative association with those words, but that's probably because I've missed out on some internet discussions...
I mean... animal walks as mobility training, really?

[Mad Hatter]

1 hour ago, LouCarJo said:

All this stretching talk is interesting, if a bit beyond my simple mind ;-).  Question, though: @Mad Hatter, any theories as to why at my aerial studio, where so many are very flexible/mobile (I make no distinction) for stuff like the splits, bridges, etc, they are generally really bad at squatting?  I've noticed when we do warm-up things that involve bodyweight squats (and not necessarily very deep ones), their knees cave in, they end up with backs almost parallel to the floor, and generally look really uncomfortable.  What do you reckon - a consequence of prioritising certain types of flexibility/mobility over others?  

 

1 hour ago, sylph said:

(Not hatter, obvs  )

 

My first guess would be that they don't squat much and haven't practiced the movement with good form enough to be able to perform it well, rather than an issue with flexibility or mobility. Most (adult) people don't instinctively know what a good squat looks like and without paying attention to form cues, will generally squat pretty crappily.

 

1 hour ago, KB Girl said:

That actually illustrates the difference again very well! They probably have perfectly alright flexibility to perform a squat, they just don't have the required motor control. Probably because they don't care to. 

What Sylph and KB girl said. Not enough practice, not enough motor control or just generally weak legs and hips. They probably just need a lot of practice with someone poking them about form. If they have hypermobile joints it's extra important to make sure that they don't just collapse which is often their default movement pattern. In the air you might not see it because they've been practicing those particular movement so much.  

[Elastigirl]

Very coo discussion on mobility and flexibility! And another reason I need to go to KB girls gym. I feel like much of my flexibility issue is because my CNS is super sensitive and cranky (possibly due to 40 years of being sedentary) In general I think most people are very disconnected for their body and how it moves. Even if you do yoga for 30 minutes a day, if the rest of the day you are sitting in a chair, then it becomes very hard for you to really have an idea of how your body moves.

[Echoceanic]

I have always found it weird to think that people don't know how to perform a squat with their back straight, because you sit down all the time, but maybe I'm weird.

 

2 hours ago, KB Girl said:

This is the way I teach it; 

1. flexibility = unconscious ROM, a combination of tissue and joint freedom/restrictions 

2. mobility = conscious ROM, a combination of flexibility, motor control and neurological freedom/restrictions

 

This is actually really interesting. I've never thought about your brain stopping you from performing a movement before, but when I think about it I can see it happening. Example, I know that I can put my bent knee behind my head and basically curl up like a pretzel from the 'candle' form, but when I try to touch my toes/do a split it would obviously stop me because it knows I can't do it as well (and because the brain is used to stopping when it feels the muscles are uncomfortable but that is my flexibility issue when it comes to the back of my legs). Did I get it right?

[Mad Hatter]

1 hour ago, KB Girl said:

Thing is, to discuss the topic.. and really even to think about the topic you need words to use.. I'm currently in the midst of teaching another bunch of wannabe-kettlebell-trainers/coaches and to help them learn to fix athletes issues I need words. If you know any concrete anatomical terms, that would be good. As it is now I always go through first defining what the words mean (as pertaining to our talk about it at least, haha). 

That is very true, words are quite useful.  

 

I actually think your language is fine, the most important thing is that it's consistent and non judgemental. (Someone posted a T-nation article on the forums here recently that was a really good example of being neither, I'll try and find it later. Of course it's T-nation, but still.) I'd still much prefer the language to change because the terms are not very well defined globally, but within the context of what language is already used it's ok. An important thing to do is to not equate flexibility with passive stretching of the "bad" kind, as is all too common and where I think a lot of misconceptions stem from, but you don't do that. So as long as you make your definitions very clear from the outset then everyone is at least on the same page. But it's worth emphasising that different people will have different ideas of what the terms mean. 

 

You asked for examples of more precise language, but I think you're already doing that.  Like when you replied to LouCarJo, you didn't say that they have the flexibility but not the mobility to squat - which to me would be very confusing, especially if you say flexibility is a part of mobility. Which component is it then that matters? Mobility is such a broad concept with your definition. It would be much more clear and precise to say that they lack motor control, just as you did. And instead of saying flexibility for tissue/joint issues I'd just say tissue/joint issues! Though honestly I don't even where to draw the line between those and neurological causes as they are so tightly linked. As you said yourself, for 95% of people it's neurological, which makes flexibility as defined by tissue restriction a bit of a useless concept. Unless you're talking about actual, medical joint restrictions but that's not relevant for the vast majority of people (whatever they might say ). Kind of.

 

But honestly I don't know exactly what language to use, I haven't thought that far ahead haha. Maybe I'd simply get rid of flexibility and talk about the components separately rather than lumping them under the umbrella term mobility*. Like for example simply talking about passive ROM and what that's affected by (tissue/joint restriction as well as neurological restrictions) and active ROM (affected by motor control and end range strength, assuming the flexibility is there, as well as different neurological restrictions from the passive ROM). Or something. It just feels more accurate to say to someone that hey you have the passive ROM to move your arm overhead, but you can't do it while swinging a kettlebell because of poor motor control or because the CNS is protecting you, rather than saying you have the flexibility but not the mobility to do it. 

 

*If there's a need to be precise that is. In my own thread I've typically used flexy or bendy training for intense stretching (which includes active flexibility work) that is meant to improve ROM, stretching for when I flop around half heartedly to relax my body and brain and to get rid of some of the stress based neurological tension, active flex if I'm only working on PT like motor control and end ROM strengthening exercises and mobilising (in the PT sense) when I'm gently moving in and out of stretches and movements to get some blood flow going and again decrease tension, with or without a tool like a peanut. I actually don't tend to use the word mobility that much for my own training because to me personally flexibility training should always include that. But that's more because of my background rather than how the words are generally used. Hmm maybe I should start being more precise in my own threads to start with...

 

1 hour ago, KB Girl said:

I suppose when you'd be teaching contortionists, aerial or ehm... even animal walking coaches you'd have a very different chat about it, because probably flexibility(=tissue/joint freedom) is a far bigger issue there. 

Yes and no. They all need to work on all aspects of what you call mobility - flexibility, strength and motor control. A contortionist just requires a much, much higher degree of both while an animal walker (umm, wait, that doesn't work ) requires relatively little. But the chat between a circus performer and a KB athlete would of course be completely different simply because the skills they're after are completely different from each other.

 

1 hour ago, KB Girl said:

I filmed that shoulder thing I was talking about.. it's not just the body protection against kettlebells, which seem dangerous to all of us but actually just.. just.. these really simple movements where we don't expect our CNS to actually restrict us. Excuse the pyjama bottoms, we're both a bit under the weather and I don't have to work until evening

 Aah I want to watch it but I have youtube blocked this time of day! Will have to get back to it when I can because I really want to see it. Either way, the CSN works in mysterious ways for sure.

 

 Also nothing wrong with pyjama bottoms.  

 

1 hour ago, KB Girl said:

Oh yeah I forgot to say I guess I've never had such a negative association with those words, but that's probably because I've missed out on some internet discussions...
I mean... animal walks as mobility training, really?

I just feel like there seems to be a lot of confusion and a lot of hating on traditional stretching. Traditional stretching can be extremely effective, but it has to be done right. When people spend all of 20 seconds post work out doing some half hearted stretches with bad form it will do absolutely nothing. But that doesn't mean stretching in itself doesn't work or that it's dangerous.

 

Sure, animal walks can be great mobility training for some people, like if they haven't left their sofa in five years. Or for people with poor motor control. While for someone else it will be no more than a fun warmup!

 

 

 

[Mad Hatter]

2 hours ago, RogueLibrarian said:

Hi! I'm checking back in days late. I'm glad you're better. 

 

Depression is tough (among other reasons) because it makes you feel bad and embarrassed for not being able to cope with what should be ordinary situations, for no visible reason. It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't felt it. 

 

I've been feeling it a little lately too. I've come to accept as an article of faith that f I keep up with my exercise routine and other self-care stuff, it will help keep it at bay -- and it helps, it just doesn't fix it all. I'm glad you're coping! Lots of love. Great work this month.

Thanks. <3

 

It really is. Like how do you explain to someone that you couldn't put on clothes today? Preferably without making people worry or sounding melodramatic.  Gosh is it crazy that I think it's no big deal anymore? I mean it's a huuuge deal in my head at the time, but I also know it's only in my head and I just have to ride it out... 

 

I also believe that regular exercise and self care stuff helps - but I have a bit of a tendency to overdo things and then crash hard. (I have a feeling I might be mildly bipolar rather than suffer from plain depression) I've been thinking about if there's a way I can stabilise at least a chunk of my training and make that a super solid habit, and maybe even add in some dreadful cardio as that's supposed be helpful. Yes I'm looking at you here.  I think I would also really benefit from stabilising my diet. I've been reading more and more about the connections between the gut and hormones and nutrition and maybe there really is something there. So yeah, as you say, even if it won't fix there are still things I could potentially try to keep it at bay.

 

1 hour ago, Elastigirl said:

Very coo discussion on mobility and flexibility! And another reason I need to go to KB girls gym. I feel like much of my flexibility issue is because my CNS is super sensitive and cranky (possibly due to 40 years of being sedentary) In general I think most people are very disconnected for their body and how it moves. Even if you do yoga for 30 minutes a day, if the rest of the day you are sitting in a chair, then it becomes very hard for you to really have an idea of how your body moves.

Right, I really wish I could go to her gym too! We could have both super geeky discussion AND she could shout at me when I'm slacking.  

 

Could well be, but for having been sedentary for 40 years I have to say that you're extremely mobile!

 

I completely agree with you that most people don't know their bodies at all. And think that pain is normal. And that they get stiff and weak because they get older and not because they stop moving. But doing even 30 minutes of yoga would be an enormous improvement for many people, even if they're sedentary the rest of the time. Unfortunately many people don't even get that far...

 

13 minutes ago, Echocheanic said:

I have always found it weird to think that people don't know how to perform a squat with their back straight, because you sit down all the time, but maybe I'm weird.

 

 

This is actually really interesting. I've never thought about your brain stopping you from performing a movement before, but when I think about it I can see it happening. Example, I know that I can put my bent knee behind my head and basically curl up like a pretzel from the 'candle' form, but when I try to touch my toes/do a split it would obviously stop me because it knows I can't do it as well (and because the brain is used to stopping when it feels the muscles are uncomfortable but that is my flexibility issue when it comes to the back of my legs). Did I get it right?

Ahh, but if you pay close attention a lot of people will either pancake forward when sitting down OR they will simply flop down onto the seat because they know the seat will catch them. Think about what would happen if you suddenly removed someone's chair while they were sitting down - they would almost certainly fall on their ass, right? 

 

Yep.  Or maybe I should probably, maybe.  Why the brain actually says no could be because of many reasons. If it senses that you don't have the strength or control is one thing. Lack of familiarity with the position is another. But it could also be something psychological, like you got injured in that region some time ago or it simply doesn't feel safe (common in backbends where breathing is semi restricted). I don't know much about the latter things though, I mean I've seen and even experienced some weird things, but it's hard to find concrete information on them that are not super woo woo or go beyond a very basic fight or flight theory. It's really interesting though!

 

Either way, the brain rules flexibility. To put it into perspective, when you're unconscious you can do the splits and all sorts of crazy things no problem!

[Mad Hatter]

3 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Discussing over tea would be nice Which reminds me, did that Europe nerd meeting ever happen? 

I don't know actually. I think so. Either way I wasn't there. But you know, at some point relatively soon I'll have to pop by Amsterdam and I just might invite myself over for tea.   

[Elastigirl]

2 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Could well be, but for having been sedentary for 40 years I have to say that you're extremely mobile!

 

I completely agree with you that most people don't know their bodies at all. And think that pain is normal. And that they get stiff and weak because they get older and not because they stop moving. But doing even 30 minutes of yoga would be an enormous improvement for many people, even if they're sedentary the rest of the time. Unfortunately many people don't even get that far...

 

Thanks. I don't actually feel very mobile compared to where I want to be. Wow,Deja Vue, I feel like I've had this conversation, only I was the one telling someone not to compare themselves to where they want to be

 

Yes, 30 minutes of yoga or stretching or walking or moving would be awesome. And yes, I used to be one of those who thought I was stiff and weak because I was getting older. It was my mom who told me "You're not OLD" And for some reason that stuck with me. I guess I realized that if I felt weak and stiff at 40, and lived until I was 80, I was going to feel really weak by that time.

[KB Girl]

4 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

I don't know actually. I think so. Either way I wasn't there. But you know, at some point relatively soon I'll have to pop by Amsterdam and I just might invite myself over for tea.   

That would be very very lovely! Though you remember we're still quite a train ride from Amsterdam right? 

If you've got the time you're very welcome to stay over too. I've got a spare room! 

 

5 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

And instead of saying flexibility for tissue/joint issues I'd just say tissue/joint issues! Though honestly I don't even where to draw the line between those and neurological causes as they are so tightly linked. As you said yourself, for 95% of people it's neurological, which makes flexibility as defined by tissue restriction a bit of a useless concept. Unless you're talking about actual, medical joint restrictions but that's not relevant for the vast majority of people (whatever they might say ). Kind of.

Right, maybe I'll actual start using tissue-issues. Sounds fun too! Hehe. But then what does flexibility mean?  

It's easy to draw the line actually when you know how to test for those neurological issues. Like knock yourself unconscious and see if you can do it... just kidding! But there are easy tests. If you can (temporarily) gain ROM by some simple tricks then it's a neuro issue. Simple tricks... ehm... you could provide fake stability to your body by wrapping an elastic band around something, if your brain then thinks you're safe then you know you should be training to provide your body with that stability without the elastic band. 

 

5 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

But honestly I don't know exactly what language to use, I haven't thought that far ahead haha. Maybe I'd simply get rid of flexibility and talk about the components separately rather than lumping them under the umbrella term mobility*. Like for example simply talking about passive ROM and what that's affected by (tissue/joint restriction as well as neurological restrictions) and active ROM (affected by motor control and end range strength, assuming the flexibility is there, as well as different neurological restrictions from the passive ROM). Or something. It just feels more accurate to say to someone that hey you have the passive ROM to move your arm overhead, but you can't do it while swinging a kettlebell because of poor motor control or because the CNS is protecting you, rather than saying you have the flexibility but not the mobility to do it. 

 

 Aah I want to watch it but I have youtube blocked this time of day! Will have to get back to it when I can because I really want to see it. Either way, the CSN works in mysterious ways for sure.

Passive/active ROM are still kind of confusing to me.. because I don't think you mean unconscious by passive. 

You're implying passive ROM is greater than active ROM, but when you get the chance to watch my video you'll see that my ROM is actually restricted by passiveness. Or I'm misunderstanding..let me know. 

[Mad Hatter]

9 hours ago, Elastigirl said:

Thanks. I don't actually feel very mobile compared to where I want to be. Wow,Deja Vue, I feel like I've had this conversation, only I was the one telling someone not to compare themselves to where they want to be

 

Strange that.  

 

7 hours ago, KB Girl said:

That would be very very lovely! Though you remember we're still quite a train ride from Amsterdam right? 

If you've got the time you're very welcome to stay over too. I've got a spare room! 

Quite a train ride is a bit of an exaggeration.  But yes, we should make something happen! Now that I'm breaking my travel ban it's fun start to plotting.  

 

7 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Right, maybe I'll actual start using tissue-issues. Sounds fun too! Hehe. But then what does flexibility mean?  

Good question! I don't have anything against the word, maybe it just needs to be redefined. But how exactly I still don't know as to not confuse it with "mobility".

 

7 hours ago, KB Girl said:

It's easy to draw the line actually when you know how to test for those neurological issues. Like knock yourself unconscious and see if you can do it... just kidding! But there are easy tests. If you can (temporarily) gain ROM by some simple tricks then it's a neuro issue. Simple tricks... ehm... you could provide fake stability to your body by wrapping an elastic band around something, if your brain then thinks you're safe then you know you should be training to provide your body with that stability without the elastic band. 

LOL sure, but being anything unconscious is not really relevant except as a proof of concept that flexibility/mobility is neurological in nature. 

As for the quick fixes, I agree that it can be a good demonstration of neuro issues. But you can get the similar increase in mobility in the hamstring for example (in some people) by releasing muscles in the neck. Is that then also neurological or a tissue restriction? Where does the line go? I mean in the end it's the brain that controls muscle tension anyway.  

 

7 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Passive/active ROM are still kind of confusing to me.. because I don't think you mean unconscious by passive. 

No I don't. With passive ROM I mean the ROM that you can achieve if someone else is pushing on you or you use a wall or the floor to do the work for you, which is a pretty common definition. Not to be confused with passive stretching though! With active ROM I mean the unassisted ROM. Which I honestly also find somewhat vague because there are many different ways of defining that. For example lifting your arms overhead when you're lying on the tummy is much more difficult than when you're standing up... Active ROM is always going to be smaller than passive ROM, but it's always a good thing to try and bridge the gap as much as possible to prevent injury.

 

In your video you're displaying active flexibility in both cases. You're just using different techniques to achieve slightly different results. I actually tried it myself and I definitely noticed that I also brace my abs if I try to access my (active) end ranges of motion. I've never really paid attention to it before (thanks! that was cool!), but I think I've been doing it mainly to prevent myself from compensating through lifting my ribs as I try to access that ROM. Like I can get to a certain point before everything else wants to move as well and that's where I need to start concentrate and brace. But maybe there's more to it than that.  I still wouldn't say that the restriction is because of passiveness as such though (because it can imply passive ROM) but rather that the body needs more stability to get there in this case. 

 

 

 

[KB Girl]

5 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Quite a train ride is a bit of an exaggeration.  But yes, we should make something happen! Now that I'm breaking my travel ban it's fun start to plotting.  

Plotting is good! If you're here maybe you'd want to come climbing with us? I usually don't go but like half my family + some gym members go at least once a week. It's Jaaps biggest hobby right now. He's even gone outdoor climbing in France twice and busy plotting the third trip (april). Or if there's anything else you'd like to do? What kind of food do you like? (More than other kinds I mean, haha.) 

 

5 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

No I don't. With passive ROM I mean the ROM that you can achieve if someone else is pushing on you or you use a wall or the floor to do the work for you, which is a pretty common definition. Not to be confused with passive stretching though! With active ROM I mean the unassisted ROM. Which I honestly also find somewhat vague because there are many different ways of defining that. For example lifting your arms overhead when you're lying on the tummy is much more difficult than when you're standing up... Active ROM is always going to be smaller than passive ROM, but it's always a good thing to try and bridge the gap as much as possible to prevent injury.

 

In your video you're displaying active flexibility in both cases. You're just using different techniques to achieve slightly different results. I actually tried it myself and I definitely noticed that I also brace my abs if I try to access my (active) end ranges of motion. I've never really paid attention to it before (thanks! that was cool!), but I think I've been doing it mainly to prevent myself from compensating through lifting my ribs as I try to access that ROM. Like I can get to a certain point before everything else wants to move as well and that's where I need to start concentrate and brace. But maybe there's more to it than that.  I still wouldn't say that the restriction is because of passiveness as such though (because it can imply passive ROM) but rather that the body needs more stability to get there in this case. 

Hm hm right, ok! Terminology is so important

The compensation prevention is really a big reason to be bracing for mobility training anyway (and it's pretty awesome you do this unconsciously!) but yea.. it also makes the CNS feel safer. 

Jaap does a lot of rehab for people with chronic joint pain and sometimes the only thing he needs to do is teach people how to brace and then reinforce it with practice so it becomes natural/unconcious to do it pretty much 100% of the time. 

[KB Girl]

Oh! you'll like this: 

 

[Mad Hatter]

35 minutes ago, KB Girl said:

Plotting is good! If you're here maybe you'd want to come climbing with us? I usually don't go but like half my family + some gym members go at least once a week. It's Jaaps biggest hobby right now. He's even gone outdoor climbing in France twice and busy plotting the third trip (april). Or if there's anything else you'd like to do? What kind of food do you like? (More than other kinds I mean, haha.) 

Hahaha whoah, by plotting I mean a vague plan that I need to pop by soon.  And by soon I mean in the next quarter, maybe? Or spring sometime? I'VE NO IDEA DON'T LOOK AT ME LIKE THAT.  

 

But that's awesome that he's so into climbing now! My climbing brain is completely gone now, it's pretty bad... 

 

42 minutes ago, KB Girl said:

The compensation prevention is really a big reason to be bracing for mobility training anyway (and it's pretty awesome you do this unconsciously!) but yea.. it also makes the CNS feel safer. 

No I definitely don't do it unconsciously, instinctively is more the right word.  If I'm not really concentrating I will absolutely start compensating.  

 

45 minutes ago, KB Girl said:

Jaap does a lot of rehab for people with chronic joint pain and sometimes the only thing he needs to do is teach people how to brace and then reinforce it with practice so it becomes natural/unconcious to do it pretty much 100% of the time. 

This is awesome! Chronic pain is such an interesting topic in general. Will check out the video later for sure!

 

[Mad Hatter]

@KB Girl (and everyone else of course!) so I watched the video and it got me thinking about whether our sedentary lifestyle could cause chronic pain in some people? I don't mean in terms of things like sitting for hours on end, but more in the sense of that we don't experience enough sensory stimulus throughout the day. That we're so cushy all the time with padded seats and sofas, and everything comfy and cushy and temperature regulated that we lose the ability to differentiate between types of pain, similarly to how we handle or don't handle stress. Do you think there might be something to it or is it just crazy talk?  

[Mad Hatter]

Thursday 23 Nov

 

Oh btw I did a thing today!  I woke up before 6 (!), did some backbends (woot!), cooked lunch (go me!) - aaand got late for work... Which officially starts at 10. One would think that 3.5+ hours would be enough to dick around in the morning but apparently not. 

 

Tomorrow I'm heading to Stockholm which officially breaks my travel ban. Barely, I mean it's Stockholm so it hardly counts. Either way I'm pretty impressed with myself, the ban lasted for almost a year! Not counting the minor moving country thing of course . 

 

Should be fun though. Our old Swedish climbing crew will be joined with our new Finnish climbing gang and we'll be watching a really cool bouldering competition featuring a bunch of female climbing superstars. I'm also going to catch up with some friends from my old work on Friday and Saturday so it will be a hectic schedule, but fun! 

[KB Girl]

Yay! Alas, there is never enough time to dick around. 

Hope you have stupid amounts of fun this weekend

 

1 hour ago, Mad Hatter said:

@KB Girl (and everyone else of course!) so I watched the video and it got me thinking about whether our sedentary lifestyle could cause chronic pain in some people? I don't mean in terms of things like sitting for hours on end, but more in the sense of that we don't experience enough sensory stimulus throughout the day. That we're so cushy all the time with padded seats and sofas, and everything comfy and cushy and temperature regulated that we lose the ability to differentiate between types of pain, similarly to how we handle or don't handle stress. Do you think there might be something to it or is it just crazy talk?  

No crazy talk! This makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking it's not just the cushiness but being so completely out of touch with our bodies! How they feel, how they move. There is no proper brain/body connection and that makes shit go haywire. 

[annyshay]

This is all fascinating as per usual. Enjoy Stockholm!

[WhiteGhost]

I read through that whole exchange about flexibility/mobility, but unfortunately it just glazed over my eyes  I think I am more confused now that I was before  

[LouCarJo]

Hope you enjoy Stockholm!

 

In all that flexibility/mobility talk you threw in an aside about tightness in the neck being linked to tightness in the hamstrings - fascinating to me as I have both!