Mad Hatter's tea party

[Mad Hatter]

10 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Yay! Alas, there is never enough time to dick around. 

Hope you have stupid amounts of fun this weekend

 

No crazy talk! This makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking it's not just the cushiness but being so completely out of touch with our bodies! How they feel, how they move. There is no proper brain/body connection and that makes shit go haywire. 

Thank you!

 

Agreed! 

 

9 hours ago, annyshay said:

This is all fascinating as per usual. Enjoy Stockholm!

Thanks!!

 

34 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

I read through that whole exchange about flexibility/mobility, but unfortunately it just glazed over my eyes  I think I am more confused now that I was before  

Don't worry about it, I mean of course it was confusing, it was discussion between nerds and we didn't even reach a cohesive conclusion.  

 

I think the most clear thing someone can say is for example "I want to do the splits" or "I can't get my shoulders in the right position for handstand or kettlebells" or "I want to touch my toes" and then the other person can figure out a way to help and whether the person needs more stretching or more strength or better technique - or simply more movement.

 

But really most important thing is that you found something that works! So keep doing that, in the end consistency is key when it comes to flexibility/mobility/whatever you want to call it.

 

28 minutes ago, LouCarJo said:

Hope you enjoy Stockholm!

 

In all that flexibility/mobility talk you threw in an aside about tightness in the neck being linked to tightness in the hamstrings - fascinating to me as I have both!

Thank yoouuu!

 

There are chains of fascia that run along pretty much all of the back side of the body so all the muscles are basically connected to each other. 

 

But there are other links as well. This only works for some people, but here's something that you could try (I hope it's the right video, can't actually watch it right now so I'm just linking straight from google.) 

 

 

 

[WhiteGhost]

So somebody upthread said something I wanted to follow up on, but I have gone back through it and can't find it now  

 

Essentially the hypothetical was raised that if someone was not able to perform a certain movement, it could be from a tissue/joint issue, a CNS issue or one of the other issues (I can't remember the other options...).  Is there a way to tell what the issue is?  How can someone tell if their limited ROM is from a tissue/joint issue or CNS or something else?  I suspect it is going to be an exercise in futility trying to solve a particular issue without a proper diagnosis.

 

The follow up question would be does it really make a difference if the solution is going to be "find something that works for you and stick with it"?

[Mad Hatter]

Excellent questions to which I'll provide suitably vague answers!  

 

2 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

The follow up question would be does it really make a difference if the solution is going to be "find something that works for you and stick with it"?

Starting with this because it's easier. Yes and no. (I told you it was gonna be vauge )

 

Yes because by definition it something works for you then it works for you.  But I don't think that's really what you were after. 

 

One of the questions which triggered this whole discussion was about efficiency. So let's say that you're trying to do the splits and one of your limiting factors is nerve restriction. (Incidentally there's an easy test for that) If you try to simply stretch more and more it won't help at all, most likely it will have the opposite effect as nerves and muscles react very differently to long stretches. But if you realize that it's your nerves you can focus on just that for a while and make the training much more efficient. Or if you think about it like strength training, say power lifting. The main thing is that you simply do the work on the main lifts right? But sometimes the training can be more efficient if you add in some accessory work to hone in on your weaknesses. But in the end you have to do the work no matter what. There is seldom a magic pill that will permanently increase someone's ROM when it comes to a normal, healthy body, you'll have to put in the work (be it through stretching, or movement or lifestyle change) no matter what. And  especially when you're beginning stretching or any other activity the only thing you have to concern yourself with is putting in the work. If you notice that things are not working anymore it might be time to change things up and/or analyze things more carefully. 

 

2 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

Is there a way to tell what the issue is?  How can someone tell if their limited ROM is from a tissue/joint issue or CNS or something else?  I suspect it is going to be an exercise in futility trying to solve a particular issue without a proper diagnosis.

Sometimes... So in the splits example the way to check for nerve restriction is whether you have the same ease and range of motion in your hamstring if you stretch with your foot pointed or flexed. If there's a large difference it's probably nerves. Fairly easy. Or like in KB Girl's example where you can access a larger ROM through bracing your abs. You can also learn things by comparing active, passive and dynamic flexibility.

 

But generally, you just have to try different methods, ask yourself is it working or not, if yes continue, if not, try something else. And then if something's really stuck start investigating. Sometimes that means asking/googling around for tips and new things to try, but if there's something more serious than yeah you probably need a proper diagnosis by someone that really knows their stuff like a PT. But it all depends! There are so many factors that contribute that range from super simple (say a technique fix) to super complex (like old injuries that have nothing to do with what you're trying to do)

[LouCarJo]

Mmmm neck massage...  I’ve just contacted someone to try to schedule one in - finally decided, thanks to you, that I need some work to help jump start the release of all that tension and tightness!

[Mad Hatter]

3 hours ago, LouCarJo said:

Mmmm neck massage...  I’ve just contacted someone to try to schedule one in - finally decided, thanks to you, that I need some work to help jump start the release of all that tension and tightness!

Mmm that sounds lovely!

[Mad Hatter]

My oldest friend just got a baby!!!! I’m not usually excited by babies but it’s practically family and I’m soooo happy right now!!!

[Lara]

21 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

I don't mean in terms of things like sitting for hours on end, but more in the sense of that we don't experience enough sensory stimulus throughout the day. That we're so cushy all the time with padded seats and sofas, and everything comfy and cushy and temperature regulated that we lose the ability to differentiate between types of pain,

You know I know where this is going 

 

27 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

My oldest friend just got a baby!!!! I’m not usually excited by babies but it’s practically family and I’m soooo happy right now!!!

Nice! Are you going to pay her a visit soon?

[KB Girl]

19 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

My oldest friend just got a baby!!!! I’m not usually excited by babies but it’s practically family and I’m soooo happy right now!!!

I know exactly how you feel! Congratulations auntie  <3

[WhiteGhost]

Did you fall into a gnome hole @Mad Hatter?  Your log has dropped off to page 2  

[Mad Hatter]

On 11/24/2017 at 6:23 PM, zenLara said:

You know I know where this is going 

I don't know what you're talking about.  

 

On 11/24/2017 at 6:23 PM, zenLara said:

Nice! Are you going to pay her a visit soon?

Yes of course! Nothing certain yet, but realistically it won't be until the new year.

 

On 11/25/2017 at 1:17 PM, KB Girl said:

I know exactly how you feel! Congratulations auntie  <3

Thank you!!  

 

6 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

Did you fall into a gnome hole @Mad Hatter?  Your log has dropped off to page 2  

Jeez, just because everyone else is super ambitious in zero week. I've only been away for two days!  

[raptron]

I loved the flexibility and mobility conversations going on in here, but don't have much to contribute! Needs are just always so different depending on what you actually want to do with it. I honestly don't know as much about CNS and range of motion as I'd like to beyond some fun things about PNF stretching, etc. Do you have any fave resources or was it just picked up over time and poking around/researching?

 

Congrats to your friend on the baby!

 

 

[Mad Hatter]

1 hour ago, raptron said:

I loved the flexibility and mobility conversations going on in here, but don't have much to contribute! Needs are just always so different depending on what you actually want to do with it. I honestly don't know as much about CNS and range of motion as I'd like to beyond some fun things about PNF stretching, etc. Do you have any fave resources or was it just picked up over time and poking around/researching?

 

Congrats to your friend on the baby!

That's really it. Saying I want to be more flexible is just as vague as saying I want to be stronger.

 

Mostly picked up over time, both from classes and from the internet machine. But I'd love to learn about in a more structured way. My latest fave however is CirquePhysio on IG, she's a proper physio and does contortion herself which makes her super awesome.

 

Thanks!  

[Mad Hatter]

I had a great weekend in Stockholm!

 

On Friday I met up with a friend of mine over wine at a super hipstery place and we had a really fun time. I've forgotten just how very hipster Stockholm is. My favourite hipster I spotted was the super scrawny guy on the subway platform bicep curling his clothes shopping bags.  (Good for him though.) Then I made my way to the flat that we were staying out but got dragged out for beer by my fellow travellers. We went to an ultra classy, ahem, suburban sports bar. I mean it even had a red carpet in front. And nothing says classy establishment as a pin code to access the loos.  

 

On Saturday we went climbing (day 2 of climbing for the others, day 1 for me) and it was awesome to see all of the old climbing crew. I also saw my ex's brother and cousin but thankfully my ex wasn't there. I barely had time to say before I got pounced on by one of my friends so I didn't even have to have any awkward conversations.  (Yes I'm handling this like a proper adult. ) Climbing on the other hand was awful. I have such mental barriers at the moment and even though there were about a gazillion problems to climb I couldn't seem to find anything that was within my reach and mostly I got sad.

 

I didn't stay for very long though because I had a coffee date with another friend of mine. Who turned out to be rather pregnant. And I was just thinking that it was probably a good thing I left my job at that time because I would most likely have to take over her duties and that'd be way too much paperwork and meetings and responsibility for my liking.  It was really lovely to catch up though! Afterwards I went for food and had some spicy wild boar gochujang ramen which was amaaaazing. 

 

In the evening it was competition time. HOLY SHIT it was amazing! The atmosphere was incredible and it was completely nerve wracking to watch. The climbers were absolutely awe inspiring, there's just something about seeing elite level climbing in real life. It's like a whooole new level of awesome, the way they use their bodies when they climb, the strength and control and skill - incredible. And the girls fight so incredible hard to get to the top, like even on my good days in the past I don't think I've ever managed to muster even 30% of that fighting spirit and push every muscle in my body that hard. But even if it was a competition the atmosphere between the climbers is so nice. In this competition they get time beforehand to work on the problems together and I just love that you can have a competition and still cooperate and have fun with and encourage the other competitors with hugs and fist bumps.  

The fact that it was the female super stars climbing this year made it even more fun to watch. The guys last year were equally amazing, but route setting for female and male climbers tends to be a bit different. Guys usually have more power and huge dynos, while women get more tricksy problems which pushes their flexibility (+ power and dynos!). As an aside, this discrepancy actually annoys me, but in this case it worked out because the route setting was SO good and so interesting to watch. I also feel like when it's guys climbing it's harder to put into perspective just how very strong they are simple because generally speaking men are stronger than women. It's just hard to relate. When it's women climbing it's completely in my face how weak I am.  Overall it was just an incredibly inspiring event that embodied everything that I love about climbing.  

 

Unfortunately my own climbing the day after was still a mess. But instead of walking aimlessly around the gym being sad, I forced myself to climb all the easy climbs in the gym. It was horrendous. I have no idea what's gone into my brain but whenever I walked up to a wall I literally felt sick with anxious nerves. And when I was on the wall I was so stressed out, my heart was pounding and my hole body was in ultra tense high alert mode. But I climbed anyway and three problems in particular stood out:

   There was one climb in that stressed me out so much I literally had to sit down to catch my breath for like 5 minutes afterwards, the last move was just so scary. Then a girl tried the same problem and couldn't figure out the beta so I gave her some tips. But she still couldn't do it so she asked me show her! Obviously I was too proud not to help her, but internally I was freeeaking out because that move had terrified me so much last time. But I did it again and the second time it felt completely fine!  After that things got mostly easier.

   That is until my friend forced me to try a next grade up problem. The first times I bailed half way through because I was too scared to continue, even though I was standing on two really comfy footholds and holding on to a massive jug... But then he made me do it a few more times and the last two times I even touched the last hold! Unfortunately I didn't quite make it, it turns out that freaking out on every climb sucks a looot of energy, both physically and mentally. Combine that with not having trained for 2 months because of injury + at least a month when I've only danced and barely done any pole, then weeeell.... Things are not going to go that great. But I'm super happy with my effort.

   Towards the end there was one last 6a/6a+ (yep that's all my brain can manage right now...) that I had left that I still "wanted" to try. I had already bailed on it a few times earlier as it required me to put my foot really high onto a box and it just looked so impossibly high and awkward and uncomfortable. But I didn't want to leave the gym with a problem that I was too scared to even try. So I set myself a goal of simply moving my leg and I got another friend for moral support. It turned out there was nothing to that movement. My leg wasn't even in a stretched out position. I really just had to move it up, that's it. I was in complete balance and control, like it wasn't even a real move. The actual move came afterwards, and while I made myself try that too, I was too pooped to do it. But I did the scary thing! 

 

I can't say I enjoyed that session, not even a little bit. I've never struggled with nerves to this extend, where every single boulder felt like a mountain and I wanted to puke or cry alternatively because of the intense sensations. But after soup and a chocolate ball my nerves calmed down and I started to feel much better, and now I'm actually really rather proud and happy with what I did.  

[Echoceanic]

42 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

I can't say I enjoyed that session, not even a little bit. I've never struggled with nerves to this extend, where every single boulder felt like a mountain and I wanted to puke or cry alternatively because of the intense sensations. But after soup and a chocolate ball my nerves calmed down and I started to feel much better, and now I'm actually really rather proud and happy with what I did.  

 

You should be proud! Like you said you did the scary thing. I really want to try climbing but there aren't any good places (or any places) near me, and plus I am maybe kinda afraid of heights? I don't know if it's heights or just me feeling unsafe at the times it happened (because it doesn't happen all the time).

[KB Girl]

It's great you had such an awesome time catching up with people!  You made me understand in one paragraph why Jaap keeps watching these climbing videos, you make it sound really awesome. 

I actually know a bit about how you must have felt during the climbing, I felt much the same last couple of times I went climbing. I don't have any ambitions for it, just did it for fun to hang out with friends/family but then feeling like that made no sense for me. Seeing as how you actually love it, I'm super proud of you that you pushed through like that! I hope it pays off soon and you can start making progress and (more importantly) enjoy it again   

[WhiteGhost]

4 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

But I did the scary thing! 

Yes, you did!  Good for you for doing that, and I hope you can get back to your regular climbing self soon

[LouCarJo]

It sounds like you did really well climbing, pushing through lots and lots of mental barriers and physically making progress with practice too.  And that’s all despite having prepared for it by frequenting dodgy sports bars!

[Mad Hatter]

Thank you everyone!!!

 

9 hours ago, Echocheanic said:

You should be proud! Like you said you did the scary thing. I really want to try climbing but there aren't any good places (or any places) near me, and plus I am maybe kinda afraid of heights? I don't know if it's heights or just me feeling unsafe at the times it happened (because it doesn't happen all the time).

Aww shame there are no places. Actually A LOT of climbers are scared of heights.  I only do bouldering though so it's only a few meters off the ground. But there's always going to be moves that are scary and uncomfortable, part of climbing is to try anyway.

 

As a kid I had a period where I had awful horrendous fear of heights, I couldn't do anything that involved being higher than say 2 meters. Now I'm kind of like you, I'm ok with heights as long as it feels safe. So sitting on a ledge would be tolerable, but I wouldn't stand near a ledge for example. I'd be too scared I'd do something clumsy like trip over my shoe laces and topple over the ledge.  Which in my case is not completely unrealistic either.  

 

7 hours ago, KB Girl said:

It's great you had such an awesome time catching up with people!  You made me understand in one paragraph why Jaap keeps watching these climbing videos, you make it sound really awesome. 

I actually know a bit about how you must have felt during the climbing, I felt much the same last couple of times I went climbing. I don't have any ambitions for it, just did it for fun to hang out with friends/family but then feeling like that made no sense for me. Seeing as how you actually love it, I'm super proud of you that you pushed through like that! I hope it pays off soon and you can start making progress and (more importantly) enjoy it again   

He should check out the video from La Sportiva Legends (the name of the comp) in that case.  

 

For me a big part of the fun is just that, to hang out with people. But I also love the movement and the strength and the puzzliness.

 

And thank you 

 

5 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

Yes, you did!  Good for you for doing that, and I hope you can get back to your regular climbing self soon

I hope so too! Don't get me wrong, my old self was also a wuss.  Just not about everything and at this paralyzing level.

 

54 minutes ago, LouCarJo said:

It sounds like you did really well climbing, pushing through lots and lots of mental barriers and physically making progress with practice too.  And that’s all despite having prepared for it by frequenting dodgy sports bars!

Haha very true.  

[Mad Hatter]

After all that I forgot to mention a thing - I found a circus school five minutes from my house yesterday!  I was heading home from the metro stop on my way back from work when I happened to look up across the street and saw a whole bunch of aerial equipment through the 2nd floor window. At first I got confused because I was sure I already knew about all the circus schools in town, so I crossed the street and walked around the building to find the sign and sure enough, after a bit of googling it turned out it was indeed a circus school and they even have adult classes a few times a week.  And here I thought it was just an apartment building! It's surprisingly well stocked too, not a lot of each apparatus but I saw multiple silks, trapezes, ropes and hoops and from the other pictures I saw online they have trampolines, a Chinese pole and even a tumble track, tall ceilings and enough floor space for a cyr wheel. (Though I think that was privately owned) Purely based on the pictures and videos I could find I got the impression that it's fairly low level, but fun and friendly and inclusive, kind of like the classes I took when I first started. So I think I'm going to try them next term - I mean come on, it's five minutes from my house.  

[WhiteGhost]

That's awesome! What a great little find and who knows, maybe you will end up loving it

 

[Echoceanic]

2 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

As a kid I had a period where I had awful horrendous fear of heights, I couldn't do anything that involved being higher than say 2 meters. Now I'm kind of like you, I'm ok with heights as long as it feels safe. So sitting on a ledge would be tolerable, but I wouldn't stand near a ledge for example. I'd be too scared I'd do something clumsy like trip over my shoe laces and topple over the ledge.  Which in my case is not completely unrealistic either.  

 

 

When I used to live in my childhood apartment, I would be scared to go out on the terrace just in case it fell and took me with it, like knees-shaking fear.. The terrace was not even two meters off the ground. But I wasn't scared to climb all the way up some stairs and on a huge monumental location we have over here, that overlooks the entire tiny town. So yeah.  

If I ever gather up the nerve (and can get someone stronger to go with me) I can go rock climbing because we do have a lot of hills and a mountain right next to us, but no places where they sell gear or have like climbing or bouldering walls. But no car, no bike, and too scared to go alone.  

[RogueLibrarian]

I am super proud of you, Hatter. I hope you feel great for having just pushed through and done the thing.

[LouCarJo]

Yay for new circus school!  And weren’t you pining for a Chinese pole a while ago? Ask and it shall be delivered!

[SymphonicDan]

Circus everywhere! When are you going to check out this new space?

 

And I feel you on the anxiety climbing... maybe you're subconsciously worried that you aren't are skilled at climbing as you were when you were climbing regularly, doing relevant focused strength work, practising relevant movements etc... I mean rationally I'm sure you know that your skill changes over time  but I've had similar problems with strength training after a hiatus, when I'm subconsciously scared to discover that e.g. I struggle to lift 50kg when I used to be able to do 60kg. Not sure what advice to give, but I think your latest training session was ideal for cutting through most of that

 

Are you still doing any Wim Hof stuff btw?

[NeverThatBored]

5 minutes from your house??? That's awesome!