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What to do after starting strength?


Nadoriel

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Hi everyone! 

 

It's been a while. Sorry. Things have been going great actually. I went from that weird low calorie whole foods diet, to counting calories and eating a ton, to finally just eat whatever I feel like which apparently has been low cal, low protein. Nevertheless I've lost a lot of weight, waist, hip and thigh size which was and still is my goal. Unfortunately that means muscle mass too. 

 

I've hit a wall on Starting Strength. Actually starting to probably go back a little. Most likely due to the low calorie, low protein thing. But at the moment I'm really happy with my diet. I'm seriously eating what I want. And losing weight. So I'm not changing that. And truth be told I've barely ever been able to lift more than what I'm doing right now anyways. Which is why I think it's time to move on to a different program.

 

Is madcow 5x5 still the best progression from starting strength? Are there others? Are there any changes for females? (I ask this because SS app has me doing 5x3 reps instead of 3x5).

 

Thank you very much in advance :D

Nadoriel

 

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From the sounds of it, you're at the point where you need to pick one of two things: Lose weight, or gain strength.  This is the Either/Or point.  If you want to keep losing weight, you need to keep eating at a deficit, but you won't see a big shift in strength gains even with a program change (though you'd see some progress if you changed lifts because of the whole CNS training/muscle learning thing).

 

If you pick strength gains, then you'll need to eat more, but you could keep with SS and still see good progression.

 

Of course, if you are just looking for something new, then anything works.

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RisenPhoenix, the Entish Aikidoka

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15 minutes ago, RisenPhoenix said:

From the sounds of it, you're at the point where you need to pick one of two things: Lose weight, or gain strength.  This is the Either/Or point.  If you want to keep losing weight, you need to keep eating at a deficit, but you won't see a big shift in strength gains even with a program change (though you'd see some progress if you changed lifts because of the whole CNS training/muscle learning thing).

 

If you pick strength gains, then you'll need to eat more, but you could keep with SS and still see good progression.

 

Of course, if you are just looking for something new, then anything works.

Hey! I definitely want to to keep losing weight. It's just a little bit more... To be honest though, I like eating these amounts right now. I always thought that calorie counting made me overeat. I'd feel forced to eat the amount of calories I needed even if I didn't feel like it. Although there were days I wanted more. 

 

What I'm doing is not without its faults. I'm afraid as hell to suddenly feel like eating more and gain all the weight back. I guess that's the problem of not really actively do something about it. 

 

But the thing is, even before I never managed much more. My highest pr on the bench was 40kg a long time ago and just 1 rep. I'm doing 36.5kg now. Deadlifts are also very close to my prev max. Squats I only managed higher when I wasn't squating low. So, to be honest I do think my muscles are pretty much at their max. 

 

So it's probably time to do something that doesn't involve a new weight everyday. Cause I'm not managing it very well. 

 

I also read about the texas method? 

Nadoriel

 

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On 11/17/2017 at 10:33 AM, Nadoriel said:

Hey! I definitely want to to keep losing weight. It's just a little bit more... To be honest though, I like eating these amounts right now. I always thought that calorie counting made me overeat. I'd feel forced to eat the amount of calories I needed even if I didn't feel like it. Although there were days I wanted more. 

 

What I'm doing is not without its faults. I'm afraid as hell to suddenly feel like eating more and gain all the weight back. I guess that's the problem of not really actively do something about it. 

 

But the thing is, even before I never managed much more. My highest pr on the bench was 40kg a long time ago and just 1 rep. I'm doing 36.5kg now. Deadlifts are also very close to my prev max. Squats I only managed higher when I wasn't squating low. So, to be honest I do think my muscles are pretty much at their max. 

 

So it's probably time to do something that doesn't involve a new weight everyday. Cause I'm not managing it very well. 

 

I also read about the texas method? 

 

Like, I get it.  I totally get the fear of getting fat again if you eat more.  It took me MONTHS to go from eating the ~2200 calories that I liked eating (as a 6 foot, 200ish pound man who had lost 50 pounds) to mentally be okay with eating ~3200 calories, which is really where my activity level at the time had me just to maintain weight.

 

But you're asking the question "How do my lifts get better (progress)?" and the ONLY answer to that is "Eat more."  It's not a new program, not putzing with macros, not playing with nutrient timing.

 

By all means, do Texas method, 5/3/1, Strong Lifts, whatever floats your boat for a new program.  But ultimately you aren't going to progress because you are, quite literally, starving your body from the materials it needs to actually progress.

 

Trust me.  Figure this out now.  I spent YEARS screwing myself because I didn't learn the lesson.  YEARS.

 

Start small.  Eat a tiny bit more.  Just add a bit of butter to things.  Or have an extra handful of nuts.  Something that's 200 calories more than you're currently working on.  See how you feel and if things progress.

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RisenPhoenix, the Entish Aikidoka

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"The essence of koryu [...is] you offer your loyalty to something that you choose to regard as greater than yourself so that you will, someday, be able to offer service to something that truly is transcendent." ~ Ellis Amdur, Old School

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@RisenPhoenix you are right lol. I basically asked the wrong question. Even after all these years I'm still so silly. 

 

So I'm basically cutting right now. I still have fat to lose. I don't want to bulk. 

 

What should I do to at least maintain or very slowly gain some muscle while cutting? Cause I don't want to be a skinny flob when I finish this. 

 

I know that metabolic (high reps short rest time) is not advised anymore. So still proper strength workout is advised. Now starting strength or even strong lifts are meant for beginners who can increase the weight every day. Because I'm no longer a beginner, or at least I'm cutting so it's gonna be hard to gain muscle... What should I do? :)

 

Hopefully this makes sense now! 

 

Nadoriel

 

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On 11/24/2017 at 2:37 AM, Nadoriel said:

What should I do to at least maintain or very slowly gain some muscle while cutting?

 

Again - eat more.  It's seriously the answer you're looking for.  I'm not kidding.

 

I know it sucks as an answer because brains are dumb.  But you can't gain muscle without eating at a caloric surplus - so cutting means no or very, VERY minimal muscle growth.  The second best would be to maintain high levels of protein (~1gram per pound of lean body mass) and that keeps the muscles from being targeted as a source of protein and withering away.  But my guess is that still means you'll be eating more than you've grown accustom to.

 

The workout doesn't matter.  Honest.  Do what's fun, eat accordingly, and you'll get gains.

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RisenPhoenix, the Entish Aikidoka

Challenge: RisenPhoenix Turns to Ash

 

"The essence of koryu [...is] you offer your loyalty to something that you choose to regard as greater than yourself so that you will, someday, be able to offer service to something that truly is transcendent." ~ Ellis Amdur, Old School

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On 11/27/2017 at 8:18 AM, RisenPhoenix said:

 

Again - eat more.  It's seriously the answer you're looking for.  I'm not kidding.

 

I know it sucks as an answer because brains are dumb.  But you can't gain muscle without eating at a caloric surplus - so cutting means no or very, VERY minimal muscle growth.  The second best would be to maintain high levels of protein (~1gram per pound of lean body mass) and that keeps the muscles from being targeted as a source of protein and withering away.  But my guess is that still means you'll be eating more than you've grown accustom to.

 

The workout doesn't matter.  Honest.  Do what's fun, eat accordingly, and you'll get gains.

 

First off, @RisenPhoenix is right. The only thing I can add to that is that timing matters. If you don't want to jack up your calories across the board, try only eating more protein on your lifting days and see if that has any positive effect. Also, if you eat something about an hour before your workout you'll be more likely to have the requisite energy to complete that workout, compared to working out in a fasted or semi-fasted state.

 

The actual program probably won't do anything but slow you down even further. Intermediate programs like the ones you listed are slower on purpose, because they need to be in order for more developed lifters to continue progressing. However, all of that implies a diet that provides enough resources to continue growing. There's a decent chance you can squeeze quite a bit more out of SS with some careful dietary planning and more protein.

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Stay awhile... we're liftin'

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Ahh XD OK OK! Sorry for being a pain... ^^'

I had some amazing holidays in Barcelona and ate like crazy xD so I doubt I'll be able to eat as little again anyway. 

 

I still changed the program since I was doing SS for a few months already and like I said.. A few years ago when I did stronglifts, this was also my limit so I doubt I'd manage more. Even while eating more. 

Nadoriel

 

NODDY'S GRINDING LOG

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Race: Half Demon | Class: Adventurer | Character sheet

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