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Laghail Therin on the Peak of Dragonmount


Laghail

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24 minutes ago, Vincent Van Bro said:

Re: Deconstruction

 

I think one thing that needs to be better appreciated about D is that it, like much of post modern philosophy grew from literary analysis and hence emphasizes the primacy of text, as opposed to idea itself (logocentrism) which was the main focus of philosophy until the last century... or we should say that text as direct representation of an idea was taken for granted.  What Derrida set out to do was show that, because in the end what we end up with is text, we need to be careful how we work with it. By ripping it apart and showing how flawed it is we can see the ambiguity and not take it for the pure idea itself. The pure ideas die with the philosophers who think them. Further, deconstruction makes us more aware of the ambiguity and teaches us to be careful how we link our thoughts and words, and what ideas we can grasp from a given text. It was not intended to be a means to any end, and those who would use it to make a point aren't getting it. Derrida refused to call it a process, method, analysis, or even a philosophy. As such, it's post-modern AF. Only a blind modernist would see it as a most-modern philosophy. 

 

I agree, the D needs to be better appreciated. #nowitsafullblownlaghailthread

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21 minutes ago, MikeWazowski said:

I agree, the D needs to be better appreciated. #nowitsafullblownlaghailthread

 

I was hoping someone would catch that. 

 

Err, almost changed it,  glad I didn't. 

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I guess my analysis is based on seeing how it has been used, rather than what Derrida intended. In my English classes especially the teachers (who I later realized had been heavily influenced by Foucault especially) just plainly stated all meaning was relative and authorial intent was meaningless. I agree with the freedom of interpretation of the reader but felt that they were taking things too far.

 

I suppose it's like Calvinism is judged more by Calvinist than by what John Calvin actually wrote.

 

Then again, I may not like Deconstructionsim the way some people just don't like broccoli.

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8 minutes ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

I guess my analysis is based on seeing how it has been used, rather than what Derrida intended. In my English classes especially the teachers (who I later realized had been heavily influenced by Foucault especially) just plainly stated all meaning was relative and authorial intent was meaningless. I agree with the freedom of interpretation of the reader but felt that they were taking things too far.

 

I suppose it's like Calvinism is judged more by Calvinist than by what John Calvin actually wrote.

 

Then again, I may not like Deconstructionsim the way some people just don't like broccoli.

 

I would argue that liking/disliking something like deconstructionism is really just relevant to one's personal fundamental and basic philosophical premises. I find deconstructionism (and post-modernism for that matter) contrary to a lot of my basic assumptions, and as such personally I reject it. But, what makes philosophy fun to me is the diversity of thought and opinion, and I don't think these discussions would be much if any, fun if we all held basically the same premises.

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41 minutes ago, brutalbears said:

 

I would argue that liking/disliking something like deconstructionism is really just relevant to one's personal fundamental and basic philosophical premises. I find deconstructionism (and post-modernism for that matter) contrary to a lot of my basic assumptions, and as such personally I reject it. But, what makes philosophy fun to me is the diversity of thought and opinion, and I don't think these discussions would be much if any, fun if we all held basically the same premises.

 

If we did, we'd just have to pretend. Educated minds should be able to entertain a thought or concept without actually embracing them, after all. :) 

 

I think you and I are on more or less on the same page with deconstructionism. Plus, every time I hear someone apply it to language I find it highly (unintentionally) amusing. Either the people I have listened to have done it wrong, or I'm entirely misunderstanding the whole thing.

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1 minute ago, scalyfreak said:

 

If we did, we'd just have to pretend. Educated minds should be able to entertain a thought or concept without actually embracing them, after all.

 

As three of the greatest thinkers in history, John Stuart Mill-John Milton-and Thomas Jefferson, suggested perhaps one of the most important things for philosophical and cultural progress is a free marketplace of ideas. When it comes to deconstructionism and post-modernism it is the contention that all that exists is subjective, and an objective reality can never be known that I tend to take issue with. I tend to agree with the modernists that the application of science and reason can, and will, lead to objective truths about reality and our universe. I can sympathize with the skepticism inherent in deconstruction, as I find a lot of influence in skepticism and skeptic philosophy-but the hyper-skepticism which rejects objective truth is contrary to my base premises. Here is a short little fun article arguing against deconstructims if you are interested:

http://www.answers.org/issues/derrida.html

 

 

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19 hours ago, DarK_RaideR said:

10/10 would play a game with Laghail as the DM again.

 

100% me too! 

 

13 hours ago, MikeWazowski said:

I agree, the D needs to be better appreciated. #nowitsafullblownlaghailthread

 

Good man! I'm proud of you for catching that, Mike :) 

 

Loving the philosophy talk going on! #AndIHaveZeroInput

 

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As I thought about it more I think those who would see Deconstructionism as most-modern do so because they view modernity through the lens of the quest for epistemological certitude. That was the whole point of DesCartes doubting everything till he found something he couldn't doubt, he was hoping to find an indisputable foundation on which to build knowledge so that humanity could get on the same page and stop fighting all the religious wars that were going on. (Remember, he came up with the cogito while serving as an officer in the French Army during one such war [either the 30 years or 100 years]). One way to view deconstructionism is a surrendering to the idea epistemological certitude is impossible, but without realizing it is unnecessary; we can do just fine with reasonable certainty. That last clause is what I consider the shift to post-modernity will ultimately become; the abandonment of the quest for indisputable certitude. I say that knowing I'm in the minority viewing postmodernity that way, and history may in fact pass my viewpoint by without adopting it. I think this paragraph better states why I'm not a fan of deconstructionism.

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1 hour ago, brutalbears said:

When it comes to deconstructionism and post-modernism it is the contention that all that exists is subjective, and an objective reality can never be known that I tend to take issue with. I tend to agree with the modernists that the application of science and reason can, and will, lead to objective truths about reality and our universe. I can sympathize with the skepticism inherent in deconstruction, as I find a lot of influence in skepticism and skeptic philosophy-but the hyper-skepticism which rejects objective truth is contrary to my base premises.

 

 

I really need to get back to this game at some point...

 

question everything.jpg

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29 minutes ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

As I thought about it more I think those who would see Deconstructionism as most-modern do so because they view modernity through the lens of the quest for epistemological certitude. That was the whole point of DesCartes doubting everything till he found something he couldn't doubt, he was hoping to find an indisputable foundation on which to build knowledge so that humanity could get on the same page and stop fighting all the religious wars that were going on. (Remember, he came up with the cogito while serving as an officer in the French Army during one such war [either the 30 years or 100 years]). One way to view deconstructionism is a surrendering to the idea epistemological certitude is impossible, but without realizing it is unnecessary; we can do just fine with reasonable certainty. That last clause is what I consider the shift to post-modernity will ultimately become; the abandonment of the quest for indisputable certitude. I say that knowing I'm in the minority viewing postmodernity that way, and history may in fact pass my viewpoint by without adopting it. I think this paragraph better states why I'm not a fan of deconstructionism.

 

Very well put. As I mentioned earlier, I tend to find the basic premises of deconstructionism contrary to some of mine. I would consider myself more in line with Aristotelian and Objectivism philosophy (lol as evident by my John Galt quote in my signature).

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39 minutes ago, Bookish Badger said:

@Laghail, what books/fantasy series are you referencing in your challenge? I'm not familiar and am intrigued.

It's the Wheel of Time series :D  be careful though, there are 14 long-ass books - I've only read the first two

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2 minutes ago, CourtnieMarie said:

It's the Wheel of Time series :D  be careful though, there are 14 long-ass books - I've only read the first two

15 if you count the prequel. And they're worth the read. The end was a enough of a surprise that I was actually happy with waiting so damn long.

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Just now, Grumble said:

15 if you count the prequel. And they're worth the read. The end was a enough of a surprise that I was actually happy with waiting so damn long.

oh good! then i don't regret having the 3rd in my queue.

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It's the Wheel of Time series [emoji3]  be careful though, there are 14 long-ass books - I've only read the first two
I have books 1-11 and 13 stashed in my library/office here at home, need to find 12 and 14 so I can finish reading the series... Technically, it could be 15 books, don't forget the prequel, A New Spring. They're a great series.
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30 minutes ago, raptron said:

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Oh no.

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Is that one of those dogs that is smaller than my cat?

 

I like him (her?) and the determined stare-down at whoever is taking the picture. I can just hear the angry telepathic dog voice: "Where. Is. My. TREAT!?!?"

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I've had some beers, so I'll just refer you to the trial of Socrates on Wikipedia:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Socrates

 

And let you all connect the dots. 

 

Meanwhile,  let's make fun of Laghail and his purse dog...

 



 

OMG So cuuuuuuuuttttteee!!!!!

 

 

And how spending time with said purse did at Lake Geneva is clearly indicative of his affiliation worth the oppressive ruling class.

 

#ParisHilton

 

And that my ridicule of Laghail's tiny dog and my previous mention of "The D" create a perfect opportunity to elaborate on the important link between post modern thought and feminism. 

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11 hours ago, Vincent Van Bro said:

Meanwhile,  let's make fun of Laghail and his purse dog...

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 


 

OMG So cuuuuuuuuttttteee!!!!!

 
 

 

 

 

And how spending time with said purse did at Lake Geneva is clearly indicative of his affiliation worth the oppressive ruling class.

 

#ParisHilton

 

And that my ridicule of Laghail's tiny dog and my previous mention of "The D" create a perfect opportunity to elaborate on the important link between post modern thought and feminism. 

 

This is why I keep coming back to Laghail's thread: the speed with which a serious philosophical discussion can turn into a dick joke, and a dick joke can turn into a philosophical discussion. 

 

And Elsie pics. Mostly Elsie pics. No treats for her? How dare, Lake Geneva, how dare??

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3 hours ago, Bookish Badger said:

 

 

And Elsie pics. Mostly Elsie pics. No treats for her? How dare, Lake Geneva, how dare??

 

Her, then.

 

That explains the attitude :P 

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22 minutes ago, Laghail said:

Wrestling with Saidin

 

Volume week last week was, not as expected. Doubled on some sets, but the last two workouts of the week were badly hurried. Like a herd of turtles, we moving on. The newbie thing got pushed tonight, which suits this week's low volume focus. I think I'm just going to run 75% attempts with the newbies tonight, so I can still come in tomorrow morning and do heavy triples on bench.

 

Related image

 

Courting the Yellow Ajah

 

Foam rolling - Um... Yeah. Tonight tho, for realzies.

Chiropractic - Crap, need to schedule for this week.

Writing - Boom, first week of "anything on the page" is complete. Pushing it back up to a 200wpd count.

All the above is great, but really....

 

22 minutes ago, Laghail said:

Sleeping - 54.5/49 hours!! Before we get all impressed, that's with having Monday and Friday off, and counting naps caught on both days. This week is when stuff gets difficult.

This is a win worth celebrating!! Qualifiers be damned.

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