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Defining

How much protein do you really need?

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7 hours ago, Aquarii said:

 I don't know, I feel like there are a lot of factors that were not accounted for in this already tiny sample size.

That is, unfortunately, true of the vast majority of nutritional science studies. :P That's why the 'end of the day' stuff is always: test it for yourself.

 

7 hours ago, Aquarii said:

Considering some people were also losing lean body mass during the study, despite adequate amounts of protein and continued training, makes me suspect that at least some of the samples were in a cut.

This is highly unlikely, to be honest, especially since the NP group saw virtually no loss in total body mass. The HP group losing some weight overall could be due to the thermic effect of protein intake, or incidental increase in NEPA due to the caloric surplus. More likely a loss of lean body mass in this case could be due to measurement error (often caused by both method - in this case, BodPo - as well as changes in hydration & glycogen, though they did TRY to control for that), that they were undergoing novel training and therefore had a negative protein balance due to insufficient recovery based on individual needs, or just unfortunate genetics.

 

7 hours ago, Aquarii said:

And the HP group consumed significantly more calories compared than the NP group, so it really isn't evenly measuring the effects of high protein when everything else remains the same. 

Again, it depends: if most of the extra kcal were from the extra protein? Then the question becomes: if they had matched kcal would the differences potentially be caused by different carb intake instead? 

 

This is the full article, with a bit more info: https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s12970-015-0100-0

 

I take most ALL dietary & exercise studies with a grain of salt, since there are lots of confounding factors, poor measurement, small sample sizes, and finally individualistic responses. And I will again reiterate that MY bias towards higher protein doesn't actually mean anything. ;) The recs of 1.6-2.2g/kg should be sufficient for the majority of the population, and at some point the numbers start to matter less than what specific people can stomach/budget/manage.

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6 hours ago, Defining said:

This is highly unlikely, to be honest, especially since the NP group saw virtually no loss in total body mass. The HP group losing some weight overall could be due to the thermic effect of protein intake, or incidental increase in NEPA due to the caloric surplus. More likely a loss of lean body mass in this case could be due to measurement error (often caused by both method - in this case, BodPo - as well as changes in hydration & glycogen, though they did TRY to control for that), that they were undergoing novel training and therefore had a negative protein balance due to insufficient recovery based on individual needs, or just unfortunate genetics.

 

Ah, yeah, I didn't think about that. Good point.

 

6 hours ago, Defining said:

I take most ALL dietary & exercise studies with a grain of salt, since there are lots of confounding factors, poor measurement, small sample sizes, and finally individualistic responses. And I will again reiterate that MY bias towards higher protein doesn't actually mean anything. ;) The recs of 1.6-2.2g/kg should be sufficient for the majority of the population, and at some point the numbers start to matter less than what specific people can stomach/budget/manage.

 

I tend to be biased more towards the lower end, simply because I prefer to eat primarily plant-based (only consume animal products like meat, fish, eggs maybe once every 1-3 weeks) and my body doesn't like dairy, so I have to avoid that too. And getting enough protein on a primarily plant-based diet certainly isn't hard, but getting excessive amounts of protein can be more difficult. Getting 1.6g/kg for me isn't difficult (it is only like 95g for me) if I plan properly. Getting above that would be possible, but more of a nuisance, haha.

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2 hours ago, Aquarii said:

I tend to be biased more towards the lower end, simply because I prefer to eat primarily plant-based (only consume animal products like meat, fish, eggs maybe once every 1-3 weeks) and my body doesn't like dairy, so I have to avoid that too. And getting enough protein on a primarily plant-based diet certainly isn't hard, but getting excessive amounts of protein can be more difficult. Getting 1.6g/kg for me isn't difficult (it is only like 95g for me) if I plan properly. Getting above that would be possible, but more of a nuisance, haha.

That's totally fair! I notice a difference in my own energy levels between moderate vs higher intakes, so there's that. :P I used to be vegan actually, but I couldn't get in the protein that I wanted to aim for while staying within my TDEE without supplementing with dairy (which I digest very easily). Eventually I also integrated pastured/free range/wild animal protein back in occasionally, for cooking flexibility and essential amino acid variety.

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1 hour ago, Defining said:

That's totally fair! I notice a difference in my own energy levels between moderate vs higher intakes, so there's that. :P I used to be vegan actually, but I couldn't get in the protein that I wanted to aim for while staying within my TDEE without supplementing with dairy (which I digest very easily). Eventually I also integrated pastured/free range/wild animal protein back in occasionally, for cooking flexibility and essential amino acid variety.

 

Haha, that is fair. I was fully plant-based for a few months at one point, but then I married a carnivore (seriously, he hates veg; very much a meat and potatoes kind of guy). All of my friends and family are also not vegan or vegetarian, and I developed a sensitivity to gluten, so I have become more of a "flexitarian" for my own sanity. I typically only eat meat if my husband wants to cook a meal for me, I am visiting family and there aren't adequate vegan options, and at restaurants that don't have good vegan options. Because I can't have gluten or dairy, it means that most restaurants don't even have vegetarian options I can eat. I personally don't really care for meat and have not minded going without it during the times I have been vegetarian or vegan.

 

I haven't really had an issue trying to get in enough protein while staying within my TDEE, but I do tolerate soy products (love using tempeh) really well, and I do supplement with a plant-based protein powder. And I don't aim for anything above 1.6g/kg, which equates to about 95g of protein, which is pretty easy to fit within my 1750-2000 cal TDEE.

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13 hours ago, Aquarii said:

I do supplement with a plant-based protein powder

I gave up on plant protein powders, I have never had one that didn't make me gag, and I've tried A LOT. 😂

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