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annyshay

Annyshay is Feeling Festive

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On 11/19/2018 at 2:38 PM, annyshay said:

Find a cozy corner and feel free to pet the cat (Dragon)!

I'm patting Stampy this side... well almost if he will sit still. Now going back up to read and catch up. Did I see something there about online dating? *big eyes* woohoo!

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22 minutes ago, elizevdmerwe said:

I'm patting Stampy this side... well almost if he will sit still. Now going back up to read and catch up. Did I see something there about online dating? *big eyes* woohoo!

You did but it's going slower than molasses in January (as we say in Upstate New York).

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1 hour ago, annyshay said:

 

I love this and hate this at the same time.

 

I love that there is so much discussion around the shortcomings in the current medical state. Physicians are supposed to discuss weight with patients, but a lot of them don't have the necessary training to really be effective. Patients don't understand why physicians are commenting on their weight. Instead of working together for the best care of the individual, these conversations can create a gap between the two. 

 

Our society is in a position where it is significantly easier to get or stay fat and / or unhealthy. We are becoming more sedentary, our eating habits less healthy, and there is less of an emphasis on playing outdoors.

 

But at the same time, I hate that this article started with "diets don't work". I hate that it even brought up the fact that some people can be overweight and still be healthier than people who are within recommended weight ranges (coincidentally, I also hate the fact that BMI is discounted as relevant to a population because some people are outliers). I hate the idea that this article might make someone who is struggling to lose weight to stop trying because of any one of a number of reasons the article stated. 

 

I hate how it glances over the fact that those of us who HAVE been able to lose and keep weight off aren't just lucky.

 

Obesity is such a hard subject to talk about. :) 

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2 minutes ago, Sylvaa said:

 

I love this and hate this at the same time.

 

I love that there is so much discussion around the shortcomings in the current medical state. Physicians are supposed to discuss weight with patients, but a lot of them don't have the necessary training to really be effective. Patients don't understand why physicians are commenting on their weight. Instead of working together for the best care of the individual, these conversations can create a gap between the two. 

 

Our society is in a position where it is significantly easier to get or stay fat and / or unhealthy. We are becoming more sedentary, our eating habits less healthy, and there is less of an emphasis on playing outdoors.

 

But at the same time, I hate that this article started with "diets don't work". I hate that it even brought up the fact that some people can be overweight and still be healthier than people who are within recommended weight ranges (coincidentally, I also hate the fact that BMI is discounted as relevant to a population because some people are outliers). I hate the idea that this article might make someone who is struggling to lose weight to stop trying because of any one of a number of reasons the article stated. 

 

I hate how it glances over the fact that those of us who HAVE been able to lose and keep weight off aren't just lucky.

 

Obesity is such a hard subject to talk about. :) 

That's really interesting.

 

I think Intuitive Eating has really changed my thoughts about this. "Diets don't work" is a strong statement, but I think it's a more accurate statement than "diets work". (I say I think because I haven't delved into the research enough myself) My time around the rebellion and multiple diet subcultures before that has shown me that there are people that can change their lifestyles enough to get to and maintain a lower weight. I just don't think that's true for the vast majority of people.

 

I do wonder some about what makes it possible for people like you to maintain their lower weights. I think that would be a fascinating area for further research. Anecdotally, it seems like it takes a wonderful combination of determination, genetics, discipline, and patience. 

 

Personally, I have failed to lose weight. I have tried more diets and lifestyle changes than I can mention. I lose weight initially. Some times I have kept weight off for years. I have given up trying to lose weight and now pursue health at every size, which is basically focusing on healthy behaviors in a weight neutral way (ie, eating more veggies, drinking enough water, moving my body, making sure I take care of my mental health, etc).

 

It really is hard to talk about this stuff, isn't it? Everything I'm saying is just what I'm currently thinking and in no way meant to be prescriptive for other people. 

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4 minutes ago, Sylvaa said:

But at the same time, I hate that this article started with "diets don't work". I hate that it even brought up the fact that some people can be overweight and still be healthier than people who are within recommended weight ranges (coincidentally, I also hate the fact that BMI is discounted as relevant to a population because some people are outliers). I hate the idea that this article might make someone who is struggling to lose weight to stop trying because of any one of a number of reasons the article stated. 

That's not my interpretation at all, though I see how someone can jump to the conclusion. Especially if that person has tried and failed at dieting in the past. The way I see it is that how much you weigh is secondary. How you feel and how healthy you are should be the metrics to be concerned with. If you happen to be healthy and fat be it, if you happen to be healthy and thin be it. But if you keep trying to lose weight through dieting you're working against biology and you're more than likely to end up in vicious spiral of more and more weight gain. Or if you do manage to control it it might be with the cost of developing a serious ED. I really believe that for most people if you focus on getting healthier habits e.g. sleeping well, not constantly stressing, for example about being fat, eating well without shame and judgement, introducing movement, again without shame and judgement, then the weight will end up at a healthy level whatever it may be.  

 

9 minutes ago, Sylvaa said:

I hate how it glances over the fact that those of us who HAVE been able to lose and keep weight off aren't just lucky.

No it doesn't, it says that it's going to be frickin' hard and that anyone who does manage it is an outlier.

 

Also the way fat people get dehumanized make me fucking rage. That the medical community actively feeds the billion $$$ diet industry based solely around shaming people and making them feel like shit makes me rage even more.

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28 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

Btw I shared the article in the IE group (it'd be awesome if you joined!)

Woot. Going there now.

 

33 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

Also the way fat people get dehumanized make me fucking rage. That the medical community actively feeds the billion $$$ diet industry based solely around shaming people and making them feel like shit makes me rage even more.

Samesies.

 

16 minutes ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

I read that article when it came out. It's been well discussed here. I will simply add dieting does not work for me. Whether the reason is behavioral, biological, or some combination of both, that's just how it is for me.

Well said!

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12 minutes ago, annyshay said:

I think Intuitive Eating has really changed my thoughts about this. "Diets don't work" is a strong statement, but I think it's a more accurate statement than "diets work". (I say I think because I haven't delved into the research enough myself) My time around the rebellion and multiple diet subcultures before that has shown me that there are people that can change their lifestyles enough to get to and maintain a lower weight. I just don't think that's true for the vast majority of people.

 

I get this and can kind of agree, but there is probably a bit of semantics mixed in here too. It's all about the framing to an extent. For example, I totally agree that most, if not all of the fad diets around aren't going to work. But I also consider any specific eating style as a "diet". So I think there is an element of how we define the word diet that is missing. If you tell me any eating style that restricts caloric intake for prolonged periods of time doesn't work, I will totally agree with you. For me personally, transitioning to a thought process of "I have a diet" versus "I am on a diet" was really helpful.

 

32 minutes ago, annyshay said:

I do wonder some about what makes it possible for people like you to maintain their lower weights. I think that would be a fascinating area for further research. Anecdotally, it seems like it takes a wonderful combination of determination, genetics, discipline, and patience.

 

I don't know - maybe you can change your focus? :D Truthfully, one of the issues I have with the whole thing is that I can't tell you HOW I've been successful, because truth be told, I feel like a failure a lot. I don't do anything special, and the idea that I am special, just because I've been successful is kind of insulting (and that's not aimed at you, just at the whole conundrum of being able to lose and keep weight off). 

 

I definitely agree with the fact that healthy doesn't necessarily mean any specific weight. I love that society is challenging the notion that thin = healthy. I just wish that there was a lot more action than talk. 

 

Semi-related: Did you see that National Geographic named Mirna Valerio as the 2018 Adventurer of the Year?

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1 minute ago, Sylvaa said:

 

I get this and can kind of agree, but there is probably a bit of semantics mixed in here too. It's all about the framing to an extent. For example, I totally agree that most, if not all of the fad diets around aren't going to work. But I also consider any specific eating style as a "diet". So I think there is an element of how we define the word diet that is missing. If you tell me any eating style that restricts caloric intake for prolonged periods of time doesn't work, I will totally agree with you. For me personally, transitioning to a thought process of "I have a diet" versus "I am on a diet" was really helpful.

Fair. Semantics are very important sometimes. When I say diet I definitely mean an eating style that restricts caloric intake for prolonged periods of time. 

 

2 minutes ago, Sylvaa said:

I don't do anything special, and the idea that I am special, just because I've been successful is kind of insulting (and that's not aimed at you, just at the whole conundrum of being able to lose and keep weight off).

I don't think I understand how that's insulting. Can you say more? (genuinely curious...)

 

4 minutes ago, Sylvaa said:

I definitely agree with the fact that healthy doesn't necessarily mean any specific weight. I love that society is challenging the notion that thin = healthy. I just wish that there was a lot more action than talk. 

 

Semi-related: Did you see that National Geographic named Mirna Valerio as the 2018 Adventurer of the Year?

AWESOME

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1 minute ago, annyshay said:
6 minutes ago, Sylvaa said:

I don't do anything special, and the idea that I am special, just because I've been successful is kind of insulting (and that's not aimed at you, just at the whole conundrum of being able to lose and keep weight off).

I don't think I understand how that's insulting. Can you say more? (genuinely curious...)

 

(I totally didn't take it as anything more than curiosity). I'm trying to figure out a way to explain it without being insulting to other people, because that's not my goal. 

 

Story time: when I was in college, I took a Finance class. I love Finance (still do!) and was able to keep up and understand the work. The majority of the rest of the people in my class did not like Finance and struggled. The teacher for the 300 level class was pretty bad, so when people got to the 400 level they weren't able to keep up with the work. Now, I don't really know if I had any special talent in Finance. But I really liked it, I tried hard, I studied, and I did well on the tests. Other people did not do well on the tests. They kept getting irritated with me because my grades were throwing off the curve. Now, I don't know how hard they worked. I don't know what they put into the class. But I know I put in a lot of work to make sure I got good grades.

 

I feel like in a lot of ways that mirrors the way people who lose weight and keep it off are viewed in articles like the one you linked. Like, this happens for so few people, we are going to mention it, but as an aside to focus on how many people are unsuccessful. And I mean, yes, I have a genetic advantage in that I don't have PCOS or other health problems that make it medically harder to lose weight. But my experience is minimized, regardless of how closely it resembles others experiences, because it had a different outcome. And it is frustrating because I struggle with the same things that people who haven't kept the weight off do, I just do it at a smaller size. It doesn't get easier just because my body decided to cooperate with the process. 

 

Does that make more sense or am I as clear as mud?

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29 minutes ago, Sylvaa said:

Does that make more sense or am I as clear as mud?

That TOTALLY makes sense. I can see how it would feel invalidating to have your struggles brushed aside. Thanks for taking the time to explain! :)

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Probably opening a can of worms here, but the thing I noticed right off the bat is that they opened the article talking about scurvy and how the medical profession didn't do anything about it even though they had a known cure because they had financial incentive not to.  This seems to intentionally set up the reader to be antagonistic against medical professionals.  While there are some terrible horror stories about specific healthcare professionals, I think the majority really do want to help and really do care about patients who are overweight.

 

That wasn't the thing that bugged me the most, though.  What really made me uncomfortable was that with the scurvy, they talked about solving the problem, which was, as the article mentioned, a huge problem affecting large segments of the population.  It then completely ignored that the reason obesity is becoming such a big problem

 

Scurvy is killing people -> get people to eat more citrus

Cars are dangerous -> make seatbelts mandatory

People are increasingly becoming dangerously obese -> have doctors be nicer?  I am all about people feeling comfortable in their skins, regardless of their pants size, but becoming more accepting as a society is doesn't seem to be a very good solution to the underlying problem. 

 

Why isn't there any rage against the food industry that is manufacturing garbage.  No mention that obesity is worse among the poor because healthy food is expensive.  The article hacks at the branches of obesity, but completely ignores the root causes.  Merely saying diets don't work in this case seems tantamount to telling people that porridge doesn't cure scurvy while avoiding the citrus discussion altogether.

 

I probably didn't put all of that very well, but my main point is that the article seems to be saying that obesity is just an accepted fact, so let's try to find a way to help people feel better about it, because there is nothing we can do about it.  After all, diets don't work.

 

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39 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

People are increasingly becoming dangerously obese -> have doctors be nicer?  I am all about people feeling comfortable in their skins, regardless of their pants size, but becoming more accepting as a society is doesn't seem to be a very good solution to the underlying problem. 

 

Why isn't there any rage against the food industry that is manufacturing garbage.  No mention that obesity is worse among the poor because healthy food is expensive.  The article hacks at the branches of obesity, but completely ignores the root causes.  Merely saying diets don't work in this case seems tantamount to telling people that porridge doesn't cure scurvy while avoiding the citrus discussion altogether.

I totally understand what you are trying to say, because that is what bothered me as well. Yes, I agree doctors should be nicer, take people's feelings into account. Can't tell you how many comments (mostly family and friends though, not doctors) mentioned my big behind and thighs, compared to my small upper body. And in such a way that I feel... we all know how that feels.

But the underlying problem are the food, as you say, as it mentions in the article as well. We had a sugar tax added to products that contain more than a certain amount of sugar, but none of the unhealthy foods were banned, taken off the shelves, minimised... and the unhealthy foods are often less costly than healthy food.

 

Accepting yourself though, and feeling good with yourself at whichever weight, is also very important. Being accepted by others for yourself, your talents and what you bring to the community, and not being judged on your weight, or how you look, is also paramount to a mentally healthy person; and people's way of telling us, pointing out that we are overweight (our flaws so to speak), however well intended, often breaks us down more than it builds up or helps. I think that was also part of the message they were trying to convey. That was what I got from it anyway.

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43 minutes ago, elizevdmerwe said:

Accepting yourself though, and feeling good with yourself at whichever weight, is also very important. Being accepted by others for yourself, your talents and what you bring to the community, and not being judged on your weight, or how you look, is also paramount to a mentally healthy person; and people's way of telling us, pointing out that we are overweight (our flaws so to speak), however well intended, often breaks us down more than it builds up or helps. I think that was also part of the message they were trying to convey. That was what I got from it anyway.

Yep, that's the takeaway I got from it as well and I agree with the underlying premise that accepting people for who they are, rather than how they look, is extremely important.  My complaint was that they seemed to be implicitly saying that doing anything about obesity itself is unimportant and ultimately a waste of time.  

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5 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

The article hacks at the branches of obesity, but completely ignores the root causes.  Merely saying diets don't work in this case seems tantamount to telling people that porridge doesn't cure scurvy while avoiding the citrus discussion altogether.

Ooooh, excellent critique. Very good point.

 

5 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

Why isn't there any rage against the food industry that is manufacturing garbage.  No mention that obesity is worse among the poor because healthy food is expensive.  

Good point. I think on some level the article was trying to do too many things. This is what really gets my goat though. Ever read Salt, Sugar, Fat? It talks about this in great detail.

 

4 hours ago, elizevdmerwe said:

But the underlying problem are the food, as you say, as it mentions in the article as well. We had a sugar tax added to products that contain more than a certain amount of sugar, but none of the unhealthy foods were banned, taken off the shelves, minimised... and the unhealthy foods are often less costly than healthy food.

I guess a sugar tax is a start, but if it's still cheaper than healthy food... well. What's the point?

 

4 hours ago, elizevdmerwe said:

Accepting yourself though, and feeling good with yourself at whichever weight, is also very important. Being accepted by others for yourself, your talents and what you bring to the community, and not being judged on your weight, or how you look, is also paramount to a mentally healthy person; and people's way of telling us, pointing out that we are overweight (our flaws so to speak), however well intended, often breaks us down more than it builds up or helps. I think that was also part of the message they were trying to convey. That was what I got from it anyway.

 

3 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

Yep, that's the takeaway I got from it as well and I agree with the underlying premise that accepting people for who they are, rather than how they look, is extremely important.  My complaint was that they seemed to be implicitly saying that doing anything about obesity itself is unimportant and ultimately a waste of time.  

These were the reasons that I posted the article, but I REALLY appreciate all the dialogue and constructive criticism too. It helps me see ways that they could have made an even better argument. :)

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Bodyweight Workout 1A (NF Academy)
3 rounds of:
10 squats
10 elevated push ups
10 doorway rows
Finisher: 30+ second farmer's walk (I used a 20 pound KB)

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2 hours ago, annyshay said:

I guess a sugar tax is a start, but if it's still cheaper than healthy food... well. What's the point?

The "reason" given for the sugar tax was because of diabetes and obesity levels in South Africa. To, in general, better the health of citizens. Which I thought was a good idea as well, but there are just too many big companies behind the sugar loaded products, and the prices didn't increase that much. Also - education about healthy food, and the idea that something sweet is a treat to send your kids to school with, instead of realising that will just run up the sugar load, and cause more disruption in the classroom, for instance, and comes back full circle to the fact that a lot of people (all people) are totally ignorant about the effect of sugar on the body, lack of concentration, sugar highs, blood sugar that falls... all those things.

The actual tax money is being used to pay off some of the previous president's unlawful misuse and theft of government money.

Edited by elizevdmerwe
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2 hours ago, elizevdmerwe said:

The actual tax money is being used to pay off some of the previous president's unlawful misuse and theft of government money.

:(

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So this morning I had my first appointment with a physical therapist. She was very nice, knowledgeable, and seemed to have several ideas about ways that I could improve my foot function in the future. She identified two issues. One was a tendonitis that I had been self treating for a while and has gotten significantly better as long as I don't do much with my foot. The other is that my right midfoot is much less mobile than the other side and than it should be. So that was interesting and really obvious once she pointed it out. She gave me strengthening exercises for the tendonitis and some mobility exercises to work on the mobility issues. Most of them are things that I have heard of before, but I am hoping that actually having somebody guiding me will help me to actually do them and progress. I'm going to see her again in 3 weeks, and I want to make significant progress in that time. Her goal and mine is to get me back to swing dancing. She also identified that I have a lot of compensation for my right foot, and that I have some weakness in my right hip abductors as well, so that's something to keep an eye on. All in all, it seems like things went well and I have a bunch of exercises to work on as often as possible. She also mentioned inserts for my flat feet, but I'm not sure about how I feel about that as that has only worsened my issues in the past. She recommended some less extreme inserts that are over the counter, so I might play around with that. I suppose that it would be a good idea to track my rehab here.

 

Talocrural mobilization

 

Ankle strengthening (especially inversion)

- 2 sets of 15 

- 5x per week


Towel gathering

- 2x per day


Eccentric heel raises

- 2 sets of 15

- 5x per week

 

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