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Ensi

The IE Group - Intuitive Eating Support Group (Part 2: The IE Group Returns)

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4 hours ago, Tobbe said:

 

This is so important. Telling people to just "listen to their bodies" is very vague, and you might start only to listen to your body, and question your thoughts. The idea isn't to start distrusting your thoughts instead of your body...! Learning to know yourself and your body's signals (becoming your body's expert) helps you to make those decisions that help you feel healthy :)

 

**

 

I'm gonna start thinking of a new challenge for us :D I have been doing OK with IE, despite being sick. I've slipped back to buying treats to my kitchen cupboard, but I went back to the lesson I learned a few weeks ago, and I'm just trying to find some actually satisfying sweets so that I don't need to snack mindlessly on sweets I don't even want. I'm also doing my best to shift my focus towards having enough food during my meal times so that I don't keep thinking about snacking so much :D

 

I'll get back to the Highline article a bit later. I read it a few weeks ago, and I need to skim through it to remind myself of the main points...! But I think that the ending has a good point:

 

Quote

Hearing about Emily’s progress reminds me of a conversation I had with Ginette Lenham, the diet counselor. Her patients, she says, often live in the past or the future with their weight. They tell her they are waiting until they are smaller to go back to school or apply for a new job. They beg her to return them to their high school or wedding or first triathlon weight, the one that will bring back their former life.

 

And then Lenham must explain that these dreams are a trap. Because there is no magical cure. There is no time machine. There is only the revolutionary act of being fat and happy in a world that tells you that’s impossible.

 

“We all have to do our best with the body that we have,” she says. “And leave everyone else’s alone.”

 

Spending your life worrying about your body and its size is kinda sad, when you think about it. Wouldn't it be enough to be healthy and capable? Why should we be so small, especially when we still have friends and family around us? Maybe it's some kind of a wish to stay radiant and attractive all our lives, but there are so many ways to be a radiant and attractive that thinking that "thin" is the only way is somewhat limiting. What if, instead of aiming all our energy on limiting ourselves, we spent more energy doing good thing and helping others?  I'll get back to this later, I have the flu and I have difficulties forming sentences that make sense :DD

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1 hour ago, Ensi said:

I'm gonna start thinking of a new challenge for us

 

Thumbs Up Looking forward to it!

 

1 hour ago, Ensi said:

I have difficulties forming sentences that make sense

 

Reading what you wrote I'd say you're doing great!

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58 minutes ago, Tobbe said:

 

Thumbs Up Looking forward to it!

 

 

Reading what you wrote I'd say you're doing great!

What he said :D

Hope you feel better soon! 

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Reading what you wrote I'd say you're doing great!

 

What he said

Hope you feel better soon! 

 

Great thoughts!

 

68747470733a2f2f73332e616d617a6f6e6177732e636f6d2f776174747061642d6d656469612d736572766963652f53746f7279496d6167652f4573652d587672613755594e69773d3d2d3432383430383638382e313463393866663233356231656237643330323034323630363037332e676966?s=fit&w=720&h=720

 

**

 

Alright! This week's challenge: identifying your fear foods. And what's a fear food?

 

  • While you're eating, you're wondering if it's truly OK to eat it or not.
  • While you're eating it, you often feel guilty.
  • You don't eat it very often / never, but you'd like to.
 

Start by reading this article. It's about restrictive ED recovery, but still very relevant to what some of us are going through: being scared of eating certain foods, thinking that they will make us gain weight the moment we eat even a small bite. This week, we're only gonna identify the foods, and feelings we might have around them. You may start practicing having one of your fear foods, for sure, but it might be too much for some of us. This is totally OK, and with this exercise, we're just trying to identify some thoughts and ideas we have around certain foods.

 

That's it for this week! And remember: if you want to try having your fear foods, make sure that you're eating enough during the day. Don't restrict your meals, thinking that you have to leave room for the fear food - you're just gonna walk to the battle without any fuel that way! If you start eating your fear food when you're ravenously hungry, it's not gonna give you a realistic idea of how you actually feel around it. Have a proper meal, and enjoy your fear food for dessert, for example, or have a slice of pizza with your meal (see chapter 2 of the article linked above). Do this maybe just once a day, if that feels safe. (Also: you don't have to be able to eat a certain amount of your fear food to prove yourself that you're handling it. Every small step you take is progress, and you can stop eating once you feel like you've reached your limit.) Don't restrict on other meals, just keep doing your business as usual  It might be helpful to write down the thoughts and feelings you have while eating, and you can share them here, if you need some support going through them. And stay curious, y'all!

 

 

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Quick question for y'all as I'm just getting started with IE.  Do you treat drinks (read BEER) the same as foods as you approach eating intuitively?

Spoiler

I'm finding that I've been craving a beer at the end of the day.  My hubby dabbles in brewing his own, and it's nice to keep him company.  I'm feeling guilt as I introduce this into my day because it doesn't really seem like a healthy habit to be starting up again.  One thing that really helped me get healthier the last time I re-spawned was to get rid of late night snacking.  Just curious what you all think.

 

So far, the only thing on my list of fear foods is cheese.  It's something I don't keep in the house whenever I reclaim the ol' batcave.  Guess it would be good to conquer it one of these days instead of just avoiding it as much as possible.  I'll think some more and post a more thoughtful response when I have one.  Thanks for getting me thinking, Ensi!

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7 hours ago, suzyQlou said:

Quick question for y'all as I'm just getting started with IE.  Do you treat drinks (read BEER) the same as foods as you approach eating intuitively?

  Hide contents

I'm finding that I've been craving a beer at the end of the day.  My hubby dabbles in brewing his own, and it's nice to keep him company.  I'm feeling guilt as I introduce this into my day because it doesn't really seem like a healthy habit to be starting up again.  One thing that really helped me get healthier the last time I re-spawned was to get rid of late night snacking.  Just curious what you all think.

 

So far, the only thing on my list of fear foods is cheese.  It's something I don't keep in the house whenever I reclaim the ol' batcave.  Guess it would be good to conquer it one of these days instead of just avoiding it as much as possible.  I'll think some more and post a more thoughtful response when I have one.  Thanks for getting me thinking, Ensi!

 

I approach drinks the same way I approach food (there are the same concerns and fears as I have with food), for sure, but I also think it's important to stay responsible with alcohol. Then again, I've never liked alcohol that much :D But I do have a bottle of Disaronno in my kitchen cupboard at all times ;) I think you can create a system that works for yourself, by yourself. Are you having beer together every night? If that's too much, how much would you feel comfortable with? Could you have a smaller amount, if you don't want to drink a lot? And have you talked about this with your husband? I'm sure he'd be fine, if you had something else to drink, like tea :) Bottom line: you have the right to make the decision yourself. If you think it's an unhealthy habit, then it's obviously something you don't want to take up...? However you choose, don't make the decision based on guilt. You are allowed to listen to that responsible side of yourself ("it doesn't really seem like a healthy habit to be starting up again") instead of fulfilling every single craving you have without any thought. I think IE works best with that balance: recognizing your needs, and fulfilling them in a healthy, flexible way...!

 

Take your time with cheese! You don't need to attack it right away, if it feels too much :) Cheese is probably a pretty common fear food!

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Hai there

 

latest?cb=20150106172903

 

I wouldn't mind stalking and getting some inspiration, if that's okay? Haven't read anything about IE yet, but the idea seems super sensible to me. I am currently experimenting with longer overnight breaks between meals and feeling good while doing that, so I am not counting calories either but rather exploring what feels like what and which meals satiate me well for long enough while still being yummy enough :P 

 

Am I still a match somehow here?

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On 11/30/2018 at 11:34 AM, Ensi said:

Alright! This week's challenge: identifying your fear foods.

I have talked about my fear of mars bars here. And I am proud to say I did manage to eat one mindfully and I did make that mars hot chocolate (letting a mars bar melt in a cup of hot milk). 

And I came to the conclusion that

1. nothing bad happened, which made me feel kind of silly

2. I don't like mars bars or mars hot chocolate that much. I do like the chocolate layer and the caramel layer, but that fluffy chocolaty stuff in the center is just gross and overpowered the chocolate milk :p

 

I've been thinking about fear foods: I think my biggest fear foods are sugar and white flower. I do eat them though, but there is always that nagging voice in the back of my head telling me that this is going to kill me eventually. 

It doesn't help that the media enforces this all the time. And I do believe that part of taking care of my body is not eating too much of this stuff. But I feel like I should be able to enjoy it once in a while without guild. 

 

One of my favorite YouTubers (missfitandnerdy) summerized it very well. Upon the question of one of her followers about how to include chocolate into a healthy diet she said: "Step one: eat the chocolate. Step 2: don't feel guilty." 

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On 11/30/2018 at 11:34 AM, Ensi said:

Alright! This week's challenge: identifying your fear foods. And what's a fear food?

 

  • While you're eating, you're wondering if it's truly OK to eat it or not.
  • While you're eating it, you often feel guilty.
  • You don't eat it very often / never, but you'd like to. (From Patrik Borg's Finnish IE book)

 

I'm not sure I have any proper fear foods. I mean, there has never been anything I've completely forbidden myself to eat. On "special occasions" I've always eaten everything - and lots of it!

 

But there are lots of foods I've severely limited that I would love to eat more of. How many should we list? I'll start with ten items

 

1. Blueberry pie

2. Lemon pie

3. Apple pie

4. Gooey coconut cake

5. Hazelnut macaroons

6. "Semlor"

7. Saffron buns

8. Ice cream

9. Rhubarb pie

10. Pecan pie

 

I could go on forever. And that's just the sweet stuff!

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1 hour ago, lucky fire dragon said:

Hai there

 

latest?cb=20150106172903

 

I wouldn't mind stalking and getting some inspiration, if that's okay? Haven't read anything about IE yet, but the idea seems super sensible to me. I am currently experimenting with longer overnight breaks between meals and feeling good while doing that, so I am not counting calories either but rather exploring what feels like what and which meals satiate me well for long enough while still being yummy enough :P 

 

Am I still a match somehow here?

 

As we state in the rules: "Use this group in any way you find helpful" ;) Stalk, throw us with an occasional thought or question - whatever supports you the best! Welcome to the IE Group :D

 

tumblr_o6zp47Iq2b1vna7xko1_500.gif

 

53 minutes ago, Terah said:

I have talked about my fear of mars bars here. And I am proud to say I did manage to eat one mindfully and I did make that mars hot chocolate (letting a mars bar melt in a cup of hot milk). 

And I came to the conclusion that

1. nothing bad happened, which made me feel kind of silly

2. I don't like mars bars or mars hot chocolate that much. I do like the chocolate layer and the caramel layer, but that fluffy chocolaty stuff in the center is just gross and overpowered the chocolate milk :p

 

I've been thinking about fear foods: I think my biggest fear foods are sugar and white flower. I do eat them though, but there is always that nagging voice in the back of my head telling me that this is going to kill me eventually. 

It doesn't help that the media enforces this all the time. And I do believe that part of taking care of my body is not eating too much of this stuff. But I feel like I should be able to enjoy it once in a while without guild. 

 

One of my favorite YouTubers (missfitandnerdy) summerized it very well. Upon the question of one of her followers about how to include chocolate into a healthy diet she said: "Step one: eat the chocolate. Step 2: don't feel guilty." 

 

I bolded out something really important in this: allowance makes your fear foods a lot less exciting, and you start to be picky about what you spend your time and energy on :D If I don't enjoy something sweet, I don't have it. The world is full of sweets, and I'm allowed to have whatever I want. No need to eat as much as possible now, thinking that "I'm never allowed to have this anymore!"

 

Sugar and white flour are definitely demonized in the media... I, personally, think that the problem isn't sugar and white flour themselves, but the fearmongering around them. It's especially harmful for people, who struggle with otrhorexia or other types of eating disorders: eating becomes scary. I don't enjoy eating sugar and white flour, because they don't make me feel that good, but that's what I base the decision on: I don't like the way this food item makes me feel, so I choose not to have it. But I absolutely have some sugar and probably white flour daily :D But, if my attitude about them is "oh, sugar" instead of "oh NO, SUGAR??" it makes them less exciting to me. Sugar isn't an enemy, it's not worth my flight-or-fight response. I can make the choice of having some, or not. Either way is OK. And I usually opt for full grain or diet sodas, but it's just a personal preference. I also try to find the good in "bad" foods, too - sometimes some sugar and white flour make me feel good, emotionally at least :D missfitandnerdy has a point! And always remember: the choice is yours, and you're capable of making the right choices for yourself!

 

4 minutes ago, Tobbe said:

 

I'm not sure I have any proper fear foods. I mean, there has never been anything I've completely forbidden myself to eat. On "special occasions" I've always eaten everything - and lots of it!

 

But there are lots of foods I've severely limited that I would love to eat more of. How many should we list? I'll start with ten items

 

1. Blueberry pie

2. Lemon pie

3. Apple pie

4. Gooey coconut cake

5. Hazelnut macaroons

6. "Semlor"

7. Saffron buns

8. Ice cream

9. Rhubarb pie

10. Pecan pie

 

I could go on forever. And that's just the sweet stuff!

 

A fear food doesn't need to be completely banned. Just that feeling of guilt is a good indicator that there's tension with the food you're eating. It it feels overwhelming to list EVERYTHING, maybe have categories and list out just the top three (or five)? Suggested categories:

 

Sweets:

Starchy carbs (grains, potatoes etc.):

Protein products:

Drinks:

Vegetables and fruit:

Nuts, seeds, oil:

 

Start with those :D But you've already made a list, so you don't have to spend time on this.

 

... what is Gooey coconut cake and where do I get it? :D

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13 minutes ago, Ensi said:

what is Gooey coconut cake and where do I get it? 

Haha, I was thinking the same thing! :D

 

14 minutes ago, Ensi said:

you're capable of making the right choices for yourself!

This! I really needed a reminder of this. I need to stop worrying about what the guru's, media, writers, dietitians etc. say and believe in my own wisdom. I'm an adult, I can make decisions myself dammit! 

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23 minutes ago, Ensi said:

I don't enjoy eating sugar and white flour, because they don't make me feel that good,

 

Sometimes I wish this was true for me as well. Would have been so much easier to not eat it. But I can eat whatever and not feel a thing physically. The psychological side of things is another thing though...

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28 minutes ago, Ensi said:

... what is Gooey coconut cake and where do I get it? :D

 

12 minutes ago, Terah said:

Haha, I was thinking the same thing! :D

 

Here's recipe in Swedish: https://www.lindasbakskola.se/2015/10/06/kokoskladdkaka/

Maybe Google translate can help with understanding it :)

 

I'll gladly translate the recipe if anyone actually wants to try making it!

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1 hour ago, Terah said:

This! I really needed a reminder of this. I need to stop worrying about what the guru's, media, writers, dietitians etc. say and believe in my own wisdom. I'm an adult, I can make decisions myself dammit! 

 

tenor.gif?itemid=5761757

 

When I started, I realized that "I have all this knowledge, but why isn't any diet working?" and it has turned out that it wasn't only the foods that were problematic, but just the pure impossibility of following all those rules and restrictions in my daily life. Look around you: there are people, who exist without dieting, and they're normal, healthy people. It's possible to exist without so many unnecessary rules. You got this!

 

1 hour ago, Tobbe said:

 

Sometimes I wish this was true for me as well. Would have been so much easier to not eat it. But I can eat whatever and not feel a thing physically. The psychological side of things is another thing though...

 

Could you just focus on the psychological side of things, then? Even though certain foods make us feel a certain way, the issues we have still stem from the guilt and restriction around food. Sure, I can eat something that makes me feel horrible - but I can do it without feeling guilty (maybe there's some regret, though :D ). Then again, I can eat something that makes me feel good without thinking that "oh, I was so good for having this kind of a meal!", you know? What I eat has nothing to do with me being guilty or innocent. (Do we ever think it this way? That when we eat "good" foods, we're "innocent"? Of what? Food crimes? Make me the Doughnut Criminal).

 

Are you following some programme to help you get started with IE? I remember that you were still collecting material, and you are not tracking as much as before. Do you follow the IE book, for example? :)

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It's almost three years now that I started recovering from a bout of orthorexia, and it was a slow process to over come my food fears! (The oatmeal story with Spike was already a good 6 months into it.) At the time, I only had a few foods that I was allowed, so the no fly list is too lengthy to post, but the biggest and most import was any kind of non plant based carbohydrates. The rest of this list is basically anything that wasn't skinless chicken breast, broccoli or whiskey. (I know I know, I heard it too :lol:

 

Currently, I weigh my food choices in terms of how things make me feel, in the moment and for the rest of my day. The other day I was feeling super crummy, not hungry, and very low energy - I had run out of batch cooks and I was feeling too fatigued to workout or cook. (I think I've been fighting something) So I opted for a smaller five guys burger which is very high calorie (I needed them) and tasty - I had smelled burgers earlier and it sounded more appealing than anything else considering I didn't want to eat. I knew from experience that a larger burger as well as the fry option would leave me feeling over full, tired, and probably nauseous. I don't typically go in for fast food pickups, and there has been a lot of guilt with these kinds of choices in the past, but I trust my experiences now that sometimes the cheeseburger with everything is the right choice.

 

On the other side of this spectrum, when reading this challenge I went through a mental list to see what I still consider a forbidden food. One thing that came up for me was deep fried carnival treats, like fried oreos and twinkies. I went through the mental checklist to figure out where I stand on it:

 

Q: Do I actually want this thing?

A: never had it - might be curious to taste.

 

Q: Do I think it will taste good?

A: Not really. Deep fried food always sounds appealing and then feels greasy and unpleasant in my mouth

 

Q: How would it make me feel? (Based on similar foods I have had)

A: Tired and nauseous 

 

So after all that, I think the reason I don't eat fried carnival food (now) is because I don't have a great experience enjoying or benefitting from deep fried food - but if the opportunity came up I would probably give it a try! It's not exactly on the no fly list so much as the list of stuff I used to think were sexy and forbidden but that in reality I don't actually like. I have a similar story with gummy candy where I thought it was my achilles heel... the thing I wasn't allowed to have in the house. So when I was exploring my relationship to it I got a bunch of mini packs to take with me to the gym etc, and discovered while actually paying attention to the experience of eating it that I actually don't like the taste or consistency. Big shock for me, I thought it was my favorite! Nope.

 

I'm realizing as I type this that I never set up that list of journal prompts! (I will get on that now!) I'm remembering it because a lot of them are basically a laundry list of my check-in questions that I try to apply whenever these kinds of questions come up in my day to day decision making. Coming soon to a thread near you!

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1 hour ago, Tobbe said:

The psychological side of things is another thing though...

 

5 minutes ago, Ensi said:

Could you just focus on the psychological side of things, then? Even though certain foods make us feel a certain way, the issues we have still stem from the guilt and restriction around food.

 

So much this! Exploring that rabbit hole is tough, but ultimately it's never really about the food itself, so what is it about? 

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1 hour ago, Tobbe said:

 

 

Here's recipe in Swedish: https://www.lindasbakskola.se/2015/10/06/kokoskladdkaka/

Maybe Google translate can help with understanding it :)

 

I'll gladly translate the recipe if anyone actually wants to try making it!

I let Google translate it to Dutch. Most of the sentences came out well. Exept for this one: "so it also fits well like a cake on a baby calf." (translated it from Dutch to English) :D:D:D

But the rest was pretty clear, thanks for sharing! 

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Here is a quick doc to get started, please feel free to add to it and make it a group resource if you like! (There are two pages, I did more of the mental checklist on page 2, but they can add dimension to the journal prompts as well! I am not precious about these things, do what you want to it lol

 

Tagging @Mad Hatter since she asked originally ^_^ 

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3 hours ago, Terah said:

Most of the sentences came out well. Exept for this one: "so it also fits well like a cake on a baby calf." (translated it from Dutch to English) :D

 

See if I can come up with a better translation :D 

 

Sweden Swedish text

Quote

Jag älskar kokos och jag älskar kladdkaka – så denna kombination är en riktigt fullträff! Den här kokoskladdkakan med en klick vispgrädde är magiskt god. Den passar perfekt att servera efter en god middag i goda vänners lag eller till fikat på jobbet. Även barn brukar alltid älska kokos så den passar också bra som tårta på ett barnkalas.

 

English translation:

I love coconut and I love gooey cake - this combination hits both spots! This coconut gooey cake with some whipped creams is magical. It's perfect served after a tasty dinner with some good friends, or for sharing on coffee break at work. Children usually loves coconut so it's also a good choice for children's birthday parties.

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11 hours ago, Tobbe said:

I'll gladly translate the recipe if anyone actually wants to try making it!

 

What is strösocker? Google translates it to creamsugar. :nonchalance:

Just normal white sugar?

 

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2 hours ago, Arkania said:

 

What is strösocker? Google translates it to creamsugar. :nonchalance:

Just normal white sugar?

 

Huh, I got powdered sugar, but it should be regular sugar? 

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