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Ensi

The IE Group - Intuitive Eating Support Group

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3 hours ago, Tobbe said:

 

I tend to look at what other people are buying, and then look at the person, and either think. "No wonder you look like that, with the food you're buying". Or "How can you look like that - while eating that kind of food". But it's so stupid. I have no idea if they even eat the food they're buying. Maybe they're shopping for someone else. I have no idea! So I know it's wrong and stupid, but I still do it :( 

 

I had a rough food shaming reality check over the holidays with my family - with my dad in particular who tends to flirt with pre diabetes, has never had a good relationship with food, and is a chronic binger. On the one hand, I love him and want him to be healthy, on the other hand, chastising him in front of others or even just in my head doesn't serve anyone good. I'm reminded of this tee shirt I want to get from a food psyche coach I love, and that the sentiment goes both ways - if I don't want to be judged for my choices, it's probably a good idea if I don't judge others for theirs. Still, I have those moments too and end up having to have a little chat with myself about better ways to support my people I love like my father

 

(did I show you guys this already? https://www.whollyhealed.com is a great resource!)

 

D5ECwSUm.png

 

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On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 2:56 PM, Tobbe said:

More about my experiment in the spoiler

Just wanted to comment on the spoiler comments.

 

Spoiler

RE: feeling like you're 'failing'. I know that we all have our different challenges, and you've explicitly stated that one of your goals with this experiment is to give yourself permission to listen to your hunger signals and eat when you are hungry (which is an AWESOME goal). But if I could propose a slight mindset shift: instead of thinking about 'failing', maybe you could just add a secondary goal where you also give yourself permission to experience hunger as a temporary message of "you need to eat something sooner rather than later, but it doesn't have to be RIGHT NOW". If that's exactly what you're trying to get away from, my apologies for suggesting something that could be destructive. But for myself, part of the practice is to forgive myself when things don't go according to plan - which is to say, 'yes I'm hungry, but in this instance that's ok, and I can sit with that feeling for a bit'. Permission rather than 'failure'. 

 

I've also done a handful of different short-term mono-diets in the past: rice, yogurt, potatoes, meat, broccoli, etc. Typically for me, they've been helpful in discovering the difference between real hunger, boredom, thirst, and behavioural cues that make me think I'm supposed to be hungry (like set mealtimes or socialising), as well as practicing mindfulness to perceive the differences between 'almost full - full - too full'. Just be sure to set a deadline on the experiment, to make sure you're using it as a temporary tool. :)  I wouldn't worry about getting all your nutrition in: you chose a complete protein meal, it should be fine for a short term experiment (I mean, I'm not a Dr so that's not a warranty, but there's often less variety than we think in our normal meal plans anyway).

 

Out of curiosity, does anyone else intentionally attempt to only eat 'until 80% full'? AKA Hara Hachi Bu, I ran into this waaay back in my macrobiotic vegan days, and it's essentially a way to begin your meal with gratitude (by reminding yourself of what is available to you to eat) in addition to a reminder that you don't need to walk away from the table stuffed. There are other aspects like chewing thoroughly, eating slowly and mindfully, but the punchline is finishing just before you're full because your brain takes a while to catch up to your stomach. Personally, I find it comes up most often when I'm out for a meal with clients or friends, and I am the slowest eater at the table and still typically take half the meal home for breakfast the next day.

 

There's also a lot of synergy between '80% full' and the many other aspects of my life where I give myself permission for 'good is good enough, perfect isn't perfect' (eg. it's ok if every workout isn't awesome, so long as most of them are), and the inverse in the Pareto principle where I'm often trying to determine where my most effective 20% is coming from (can apply in work, personal life, sleep, fitness, diet, etc.).

 

Just interested if that's something anyone else has played with!

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I had a rough food shaming reality check over the holidays with my family - with my dad in particular who tends to flirt with pre diabetes, has never had a good relationship with food, and is a chronic binger. On the one hand, I love him and want him to be healthy, on the other hand, chastising him in front of others or even just in my head doesn't serve anyone good. I'm reminded of this tee shirt I want to get from a food psyche coach I love, and that the sentiment goes both ways - if I don't want to be judged for my choices, it's probably a good idea if I don't judge others for theirs. Still, I have those moments too and end up having to have a little chat with myself about better ways to support my people I love like my father
 
(did I show you guys this already? https://www.whollyhealed.com is a great resource!)
 
D5ECwSUm.png
 
This, so much this!

My bf has diabetes and each time he orders sweets I have a voice screaming in my head 'DON'T DO IT' while I order sweets too and I am not supposed to as I don't have diabetes, but I have PCOS...

My dad was diagnosed diabetes and nearly cured it with diet and walks (he takes as much medication as myself) and I judge him positively but I also see him as a non-reachable ideal. He is getting older is cooking for himself for the first time in 40 years. My sister constantly thinks he needs to be supervised on what he eats and only after starting reading about IE I realised how bonker is this!

These judgements are really ingrained in our minds that is so difficult to get rid of!


Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, Defining said:

maybe you could just add a secondary goal where you also give yourself permission to experience hunger as a temporary message of "you need to eat something sooner rather than later, but it doesn't have to be RIGHT NOW". If that's exactly what you're trying to get away from, my apologies

 

I think one of my "problems" is that I'm too "good" at being hungry. I tell myself I've been "good" if I've gone hungry. And that's not a healthy mindset, IMHO

 

3 hours ago, Defining said:

Just be sure to set a deadline on the experiment

 

Ohh, yeah, I've done that. It's three to seven days. No less, no more :) 

 

3 hours ago, Defining said:

I wouldn't worry about getting all your nutrition in: you chose a complete protein meal, it should be fine for a short term experiment

 

Agreed :)  My wife expressed a greater concern about all the arsenic in the rice than any potential micro nutrient deficient :) 

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3 hours ago, Defining said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone else intentionally attempt to only eat 'until 80% full'?

 

We talked a little bit about this exact topic a while back. I used to do this. But I didn't think of it as eating until 80% full. I thought of it as eating until not hungry anymore. If I ate until I was full I had eaten too much. That's why I got so happy when I read about the hunger and fullness scale, and how they say you're supposed to eat until you are really full. I've always hated not being allowed (in my mind) to ever feel full. Reading the IE book, and reading that I'm allowed to eat until I'm actually full was such a relief! Love it! :) Now I just have to get it into my head properly, and start living like that!

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On 1/8/2019 at 7:12 AM, Defining said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone else intentionally attempt to only eat 'until 80% full'?

 

I've never thought about it as a number like that, I've just tried to find the sweet spot where I'm just above "still a bit hungry" and below "uurgh, that was a bit too much". I've tried to reach this by following recommended portion sizes and then either leaving food, if I get full, or having something extra, if I'm still hungry after the meal. By the way, welcome to the group! I'll add you to the list :)

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4 hours ago, Ensi said:

I've just tried to find the sweet spot where I'm just above "still a bit hungry" and below "uurgh, that was a bit too much".

 

For me personally there's a big difference between those two points. And if I understand the IE "recommendations" you should aim to get pretty close to the "a bit too much" point (but ideally not all the way there)

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I think maybe it depends a bit on the person. Like, if you're used to only eating enough to keep from falling over, then being able to eat until you're as full as you can be without feeling sick is valuable. It lets you learn what it's like to not be hungry, and tells your body that it's not in a famine situation anymore. But on the other hand, it's important to learn to stop at the right point, which can be hard if you're eating fast and used to eating past the "I'm full" feeling. Eating fast is definitely my issue right now. I'm always the first one done with a meal. I'm starting to learn to stop a little before I feel full (but am no longer hungry) and wait to see if my brain catches up to my stomach - like Defining said. I used to scarf down my "main" lunch item (sandwich or whatever) and any sides and desert in one quick go. Now I eat the sandwich and maybe a few pieces of the side item, and then about 15 minutes later I finish the side if I'm still hungry.

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Totally agree that slowing down is important. Putting down your fork and reflecting on what you're eating, how it tastes, smells, feels in your mouth etc is nice :)  Also taking time for a sip of your drink can be helpful. 

 

If you wait those 15 minutes, and then eat the sides, how full would you say you are then?

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On 1/8/2019 at 12:12 AM, Defining said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone else intentionally attempt to only eat 'until 80% full'?

 

I worked with percentages a lot throughout my years of ED, (I'm allowed 30% of this, I must remove 50% of that based on what was on the plate etc) and it hasn't really translated into my own personal practice of IE. I think my (current) equivalent is more along the lines of of the mindful parts you mention - paying attention to all the physical aspects of flavor, chewing, how my stomach and chest feels, my mind - which is the trickiest thing I think, actually sitting there, at home alone or out with others, and really paying attention to every sensation of eating. But it's done all good things for me!

 

Edited to add... 

 

Eating to fullness doesn't really resonate for me so much as eating to satisfaction, and eating to satisfaction does not always mean eating to fullness. This may be more in tune with your original question.

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51 minutes ago, Tobbe said:

If you wait those 15 minutes, and then eat the sides, how full would you say you are then?

 

That depends, which is why I try to wait and see what happens. Sometimes I don't feel hungry at all until much later, so then I eat the side as a snack later. Sometimes I feel a tiny bit hungry after eating the sandwich or whatever, and so after the pause, I eat some or possibly all of the side item. (Lately that's been trail mix.) Sometimes I feel somewhat hungry after I finish the sandwich, so I keep going and finish the side... and then 15-20 minutes later I still feel a little hungry again, so I eat a snack if I have one.

 

The benefit of this is that I haven't made myself over-full at lunch for quite a while! I'm trying to apply the same mentality for dinner, though it depends a lot on whether I'm eating at home or at a restaurant. I have a bad tendency when eating out to just chew through everything on my plate, even if I start to reach that possibly-full state where I should pause and see if I'm really still hungry.

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On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 2:05 AM, Tobbe said:

I think one of my "problems" is that I'm too "good" at being hungry. I tell myself I've been "good" if I've gone hungry. And that's not a healthy mindset, IMHO

In that case, you should probably just ignore me! :PFor myself, I don't associate virtue with either fullness or hunger, it's just another signal from my body, like DOMS. It's just telling me what I've been doing lately, and is a suggestion from my body for what I might need in the next few hours/days. But from what you've described, hunger has different totally associations for you, so I can absolutely understand why you'd approach fullness differently.

 

21 hours ago, Jett said:

I'm starting to learn to stop a little before I feel full (but am no longer hungry) and wait to see if my brain catches up to my stomach - like Defining said.

It can be tough when you're used to eating fast. And it's still easy for me to just eat on autopilot when I'm busy with work, instead of taking time to actually pay attention to my meal.

 

18 hours ago, RedStone said:

Eating to fullness doesn't really resonate for me so much as eating to satisfaction, and eating to satisfaction does not always mean eating to fullness. This may be more in tune with your original question.

That's probably a more productive way to discuss the idea in this context, especially since 'fullness' means different things to different people.

 

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 5:32 AM, Ensi said:

I've never thought about it as a number like that.

.

By the way, welcome to the group!

I like to think of it as a pac man/ pie chart, or coloured building blocks. ;) And thanks! :) 

full.png.83812fd76b6ed8657f17da442f4a9346.png

 

My apologies if the mention of quantifying fullness was triggering for anyone, I admit that my use of 'intuitive eating' typically has more to do with judging what kind of foods my digestive system can cope with on any given day, and how they affect my overall mood & feelings of wellbeing. I'm still learning to be more aware of the different perspectives people have around food!

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"Eat until 80% full", or "eat until no longer hungry", and "start with a big glass of water" and "start with a salad". To me, those are all diet-mentality thoughts/advice. Advice on how to not eat "too much" so that you will not get fat. And how to trick your body into believing that the stomach is full off food, when it's really just mostly water and/or insoluble fiber.

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22 hours ago, Ensi said:

I've tried to reach this by following recommended portion sizes

 

Where's the sauce/gravy? We have very similar advice on how to fill your plate here in Sweden, but they also leave out the sauce. And I hate eating dry food :(  So that is a pet peeve of mine.

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1 hour ago, Tobbe said:

"Eat until 80% full", or "eat until no longer hungry", and "start with a big glass of water" and "start with a salad". Those are all diet-mentality thoughts/advice. Advice on how to not eat "too much" so that you will not get fat. And how to trick your body into believing that the stomach is full off food, when it's really just mostly water and/or insoluble fiber.

This! I've tried to come up with how to put it into words, but this is what I was thinking.

 

I don't eat until 80% full. I just eat until I had enough. And sometimes that means one bite, and sometimes that means two or three plates full. And it's okay to sometimes feel stuffed or even empty (sometimes just nothing tastes good to me), as long as you feel satisfied enough (even the feeling of satisfaction doesn't have to be perfect!). 

Just now I had bought two croissants and some yoghurt for lunch. I finished one croissant and maybe 1/3th of the yoghurt and I was satisfied. But I think I'm only like 40% full. But I did eat more the last few days (just hungry), so it makes sense that I don't want to eat that much today. Not that I'm purposefully eating less, because I ate more the days before (I used to do this), but it was more like: "why do I have enough after just one of these? Oh, that's right, I ate more the last few days". 

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I don't know if this works yet, but yesterday after I came home from training I was starving and all I could think about was food. I had some food, but I was still thinking about food afterwards so I took it as a sign that I still wasn't satisfied/full whatever you want to call it. So perhaps a very simplistic way of thinking about the hunger/fullness scale is simply if you keep thinking about food...

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5 hours ago, Tobbe said:

"Eat until 80% full", or "eat until no longer hungry", and "start with a big glass of water" and "start with a salad". To me, those are all diet-mentality thoughts/advice. Advice on how to not eat "too much" so that you will not get fat. And how to trick your body into believing that the stomach is full off food, when it's really just mostly water and/or insoluble fiber.

 

3 hours ago, Terah said:

This! I've tried to come up with how to put it into words, but this is what I was thinking.

 

My bad guys, I apologise! If I eat too much at once my tummy gets cranky, hence the desire for 'not too full'. It's not about dieting for me so much as comfort, but I can totally see how that looks. Will refrain from mentioning it in the future!

 

tenor (4).gif

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8 minutes ago, Defining said:

My bad guys, I apologise! If I eat too much at once my tummy gets cranky, hence the desire for 'not too full'. It's not about dieting for me so much as comfort, but I can totally see how that looks. Will refrain from mentioning it in the future!

 

Don't be too sorry. It's also important to recognize that we are all different, and have different needs. I've mentioned this before, but I really enjoy getting really full. But then I also don't need food for a pretty long time after that. Others feel much better with eating smaller, snack sized, meals much more often to keep their energy and blood sugar at a comfortable level.

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One thing that I've been coming across often is not just to slow down or take breaks while eating, but to really chew the food. A large chunk of satiety feels and digestion processes get kicked into gear through chewing specifically so if you don't (I'm often totally guilty of this!) you might actually be missing out on a very important part of eating. This is not a mind trickery thing to feel more full but actually rather important for digestion and nutrition uptake.

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My bad guys, I apologise! If I eat too much at once my tummy gets cranky, hence the desire for 'not too full'. It's not about dieting for me so much as comfort, but I can totally see how that looks. Will refrain from mentioning it in the future!
 
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I am exactly like you, but right now I think it's because I eat too fast and I do not wait for fullness feedback.
I am thinking to take a mindful eating course, and try to practice ita

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On 1/9/2019 at 7:32 AM, Ensi said:

I've tried to reach this by following recommended portion sizes and then either leaving food, if I get full, or having something extra, if I'm still hungry after the meal

I really like this picture. The 9 inch plate is comforting somehow. Really, it makes eating seem pretty simple. Like I should stop complicating things!

 

I’m a little curious about the dairy. I started drinking less milk because I switched from skim to 2% fat. I feel satisfied much earlier. So I wonder how I should go about getting more dairy. Do you guys have favorite sources?

 

 

19 hours ago, Defining said:

 

full.png.83812fd76b6ed8657f17da442f4a9346.png

 

I also like this picture a lot. Thanks for making me laugh!

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6 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

I don't know if this works yet, but yesterday after I came home from training I was starving and all I could think about was food. I had some food, but I was still thinking about food afterwards so I took it as a sign that I still wasn't satisfied/full whatever you want to call it. So perhaps a very simplistic way of thinking about the hunger/fullness scale is simply if you keep thinking about food...

I've found this is super helpful for me- If I'm satisfied, my brain mostly just doesn't think about food even when it's there. Like if I'm hungry, the nasty cheese balls my husband keeps handy start looking pretty darn tasty >_> If I'm not, I don't even notice they're in the room. I noticed myself recently in times where I wasn't thinking about food, and it was super awesome!

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57 minutes ago, suzyQlou said:

I’m a little curious about the dairy. I started drinking less milk because I switched from skim to 2% fat. I feel satisfied much earlier. So I wonder how I should go about getting more dairy. Do you guys have favorite sources?

 

You don't have to drink any milk at all if you don't want to :)  

 

But my favorite sources are heavy cream, longmilk/sourmilk, cheese (hard cheese, cream cheese, cottage cheese etc), crème fraîche and butter.

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