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Mad Hatter

Mad Hatter is too impatient to come up with a fancy title

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On 2/4/2019 at 9:36 AM, Mad Hatter said:

Attempt to learn the fish flop

Ah the Fish Flop. I saw it for the first time just last month. I asked the gymnast if it hurt and she said it was just a matter of keeping the whole body tight was key. Looks cool but scary. 

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On 2/18/2019 at 6:41 PM, raptron said:

Ahhhh, what a great weekend. :D 

 

I love that you are trying to temper all of the energy and things with the workouts you are getting in. And yay, one-armed cartwheels and open gym shenanigans like infinite forward rolls.

I'm loving these high energy boosts! Except that I'm CONSTANTLY HUNGRY! 

 

Yay!!

 

On 2/19/2019 at 3:25 PM, Happienumber said:

 

Image result for thanks i hate it

Hahaha

 

On 2/19/2019 at 3:51 PM, KB Girl said:

Not pretty? That looks AWESOME!

:D Thanks! I can't help but feel that there's something weird about the way I move but I'm not sure what it is. Meh. Maybe it's the trainers. :P 

 

On 2/20/2019 at 9:23 PM, Mike_KnightofHearts said:

Ah the Fish Flop. I saw it for the first time just last month. I asked the gymnast if it hurt and she said it was just a matter of keeping the whole body tight was key. Looks cool but scary. 

Yeah as long as you roll smoothly and keep your back and hips extended it's absolutely fine! It's mostly a brain thing because belly flops are no fun.

Also HI! And welcome to the forums!

 

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I'm still alive - I've just been on a 3 day coding bender and barely been functioning as a human being haha.

 

6N8H.gif

 

 

Monday I forced myself to rest as apparently I pulled a @raptron where I was on for 9 days in a row. Oops. My body was very tired but I still had to force myself to not move around. What helped was that my colleagues ended up laughing at me whenever I did something hyperactive like say playing on the dip station during our weekly meeting.

 

On Tuesday my bender started. I even missed my parkour workshop! :hopelessness: I really want to say that I forgot but it was more like there was a massive disconnect between me looking at the time and me realizing that the time meant I had to put on pants and leave the house...

 

Wednesday I was concerned that it would happen again and I'd miss climbing, so I actually asked my friend to harass me to make sure I wouldn't get distracted. He took the job very seriously and sent me funny texts ALL day long haha, which was both highly entertaining and very helpful as it helped me break the intense focus. 

 

Unfortunately it wasn't a great session, I think I was still very much in my head and for some reason I felt very nervous and distrusting of my climbing. There was one climb in particular that I just couldn't bring myself to make this one move that everyone else (of normal climbing ability) made look easy. I'll admit I did get a little disappointed that I couldn't commit to it, but I really did try. 

 

On the plus side, I could do so many more climbs even on a bad day than I could only a few weeks back! :) I even managed to break into the next level colour grade! And the best part is that I don't even care! It's nice in the way that there are many more climbs available to me to try, but I'm in a good place right now where I genuinely don't care about the grades. It doesn't bother me when I fail at a low grade climb, I just take note of it. And I'm also not getting cocky and believe that suddenly my climbing has massively improved because climbed this one red climb. It's a good state to be in, I hope it will last.

 

Thursday I was determined to do my flexy work as I missed it on Tuesday. I managed the warm up, the hip extension module and half of the pike module before my code was calling to me so much I couldn't resist. :redface: What is even happening??

 

I managed to finish off my work just in time for day one of a handstand workshop with my acro teacher! I honestly didn't expect much, my underpants collection is vast indeed, but I was mostly curious to see if he taught handstands with weird exercises like morning acro haha. He did not, except in the warmups where we did completely impossible coordination things again that hurt my brain. We also did a really nice hip warmup exercises with a partner. One person grabs the other person's foot and moves it around to force the hip to rotate it in all kinds of directions. So you're on one leg the entire time and working hard to balance in a bunch of different positions while actively pushing lightly into the guiding person's hands. I'm not sure why but it just felt really good for the hips.

 

The biggest takeaways from the workshop or just things I liked were:

  • I know what to do I just need to do it... That consistency yo! Once a month ain't going to cut it.
  • Good reminder about shoulder positioning and particularly order of operation - Protract, elevate, externally rotate to create the most stable shoulder position. Apparently same as for weightlifting. It's difficult to remember all three in the moment but I can definitely feel my lats and upper back working harder compared to my upper traps which love to take over and do all the work. 
  • Canes are scary but awesome and so fun to try! I had a chat with him about it and his opinion is that if you have some sort of handstand it's great to vary the apparatus you're working on. I was curious about it because it can also get confusing, but he gave two good reason. 1 it's good for wrist health to vary the position, and 2 different sensory input makes you better at balancing. However he does not think that training on soft surfaces is a good idea because while 2 is true, 1 is not.
  • Keep different components of handstand training separate, don't train balance and form and strength/endurance at the same time but compartmentalize them.
  • When correcting for form, ask yourself if it's an actual issue or not. I asked about correcting for rotation or leaning into one shoulder as it's really hard to correct without someone by your side, and it feels so very wrong when you make the correction. But that was a good point, that often it really doesn't matter. His form was definitely a bit off from the straight line circus ideal, but he had zero problems holding a one arm HS.
  • General positive thing - I'm happy that my wrists can easily handle the amount of work in the workshop! I saw people struggle and find the workshop generally tiring, but I felt great.

Overall it was a really nice reintroduction to handstands and mostly I'm super excited to start doing them again! I'm not sure exactly when, but that's a problem for another day. :P 

 

A bit wrong order but Friday was actually part 2 of the workshop. In the morning however I trained at the office gym (still makes me happy to say that!) My friend joined me as well which I was really stoked about. It makes me so happy to see her come in and train and try! :) I helped her out with her squat a bit as I noticed her heels were coming off the ground a lot. But the thing is that she's actually naturally very mobile so I had her do a test for sciatic nerve tension and it was very obvious that it could be the culprit. She's had other people trying to "help" her by aggressively stretching her hamstrings which doesn't work at all for this and as expected it just caused her pain. So I gave her some underpants to watch (wow that sounds weird) and an exercise which will hopefully help but for now I simply elevated her heels and she felt much better. No pain! Yay! 

 

I guess I did some stuff in the gym too. I think my minimal program is working right now, I come out feeling full of energy for the day but it also feels like I'm getting some good work in. Super simple, push-ups, pull-ups, dips, inverted rows, squats and deadlifts. Except that today I didn't have time for the deadlifts as we only have one bar so instead I did the straddle flexy module as I knew we were going to work on straddle handstands in the workshop today. Funny thing is that some of the active flexibility exercises were by far the hardest thing I did at the gym. :D 

 

I think my push-ups are coming along nicely for the first time ever and I should hopefully maybe be able to do some nice ones soon? Today I hit full depth but still had to worm my way up a tiny bit, or shallower but still acceptable depth and decent form. My pull-ups also felt "right" for the first time since last year. I didn't quite manage to link together 2 nice ones, but maybe 1.75. Which is still much better than not being able to link any. I also found out that bumping the weight up to 31kg for my squats is already where I'm beginning to feel it's challenging. Not so much for strength yet, but for form and stability. Though in retrospect I wasn't wearing shoes today so that might have contributed? We'll see! I'll probably keep experimenting for a few weeks and then post a form check and ask you guys to take a look. :) 

 

I have not kept up the challenge tracking or even trying to challenge this week, I've been way too distracted. I haven't even managed to feed or hydrate myself properly. :unsure: But it's not the end of the world, it's only been a few days. And my head's calmer now so I can start up again properly next week! 

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2 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

I'm loving these high energy boosts! Except that I'm CONSTANTLY HUNGRY! 

 

Yay!!

 

Hahaha

 

:D Thanks! I can't help but feel that there's something weird about the way I move but I'm not sure what it is. Meh. Maybe it's the trainers. :P 

 

Yeah as long as you roll smoothly and keep your back and hips extended it's absolutely fine! It's mostly a brain thing because belly flops are no fun.

 Also HI! And welcome to the forums!

 

Glad to be here. Thanks.

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19 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Except that I'm CONSTANTLY HUNGRY! 

No wonder you are. Are you aware of how many things you're doing every week?

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17 hours ago, Elastigirl said:

So excited for you that you are starting to relax and really enjoy climbing! 

 

What is sciatic nerve tension?

Yeah! It all feels so much better than last year!

 

The sciatic nerve is a thick nerve running from the spine around the lower back and down the legs into the feet. It's in sort of sheath and if it gets stuck somewhere and can't glide freely in the sheath it can lead to pain, or numbness or tingling in forward folds in particular. It can also limit flexibility. The way to distinguish it is basically to sit in a forward fold with pointed feet, then with flexed feet keeping everything else the same. If the range of motion is significantly worse with flexed feet, or if it feels unpleasant or painful, it's likely to be sciatic nerve tension and not for example hamstring muscle tension.

 

3 hours ago, zenLara said:

No wonder you are. Are you aware of how many things you're doing every week?

SSSSHHHH nobody was supposed to notice. :P 

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I DID A RUN AND JUMP TODAY! :D It's a climbing coordination/almost parkour move where to start the problem you run head first into the well, take two steps sideways and then do a dyno (jump). Basically my nightmare move. :P It took many, many, MANY attempts, but I'm really proud of myself that I made it. And that I even tried it in the first place!

 

The problem with these types of moves is that you need speed (or I guess huge amounts of leg power), but if you run too fast then it's difficult to convert the forward momentum to upward momentum. So you have to do it fast but also as slow as possible and you end up walking a fine line between just enough speed and killing your speed altogether. It was quite interesting to realize that in my progression. My first two attempts I went slowly and could only manage to step up onto the first two holds but then had nothing for the jump, then I started picking up speed and got a lot further, but when I finally got it I had slowed it waaay down again. At least that's the very short version haha. Super happy though, this is the stuff that I get made fun of for sucking at and I really managed to surprise everyone by doing it, including myself!

 

The thing that I'm less happy about is that there are now THREE climbs that I feel really scared of doing, to the point where I literally can't move. They're all new problems so I'm going to keep trying over the next few weeks to see if I can overcome this.

 

Afterwards we hung out at some friends' house together with a mutual climbing friend from Sweden that was visiting my friends. It was actually really nice as we haven't done that for a really long time which is a bit sad. Hopefully it will get better from now on!

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Oh and I also went through the myflex shoulder module. My shoulders felt a bit pinchy today and then it struck me that it's been a while since I did it last time and clearly I NEED it. Since I was only doing one module I took the time to take an initial progress pic for my backbends and while it's a far cry from my old flexibility, it's actually not *that* bad, especially considering I didn't want to push into my shoulders. I actually looked through some old pics and videos from my "peak" (in, ahem, 2016) and for once I felt absolutely fine with all my lost progress, instead of getting sad that "I let myself go" or whatever stupid thoughts. I'm beginning to think that this last injury was a great thing to happen to me. ;)  

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10 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Yeah! It all feels so much better than last year!

 

The sciatic nerve is a thick nerve running from the spine around the lower back and down the legs into the feet. It's in sort of sheath and if it gets stuck somewhere and can't glide freely in the sheath it can lead to pain, or numbness or tingling in forward folds in particular. It can also limit flexibility. The way to distinguish it is basically to sit in a forward fold with pointed feet, then with flexed feet keeping everything else the same. If the range of motion is significantly worse with flexed feet, or if it feels unpleasant or painful, it's likely to be sciatic nerve tension and not for example hamstring muscle tension.

 

SSSSHHHH nobody was supposed to notice. :P 

Woot for doing the scary complicated parkour jumps! And for not giving up on the scary climbs. I'm sure that next time they will be a bit easier.

 

Sciatic nerve: I used to have chronic sciatic nerve pain. My back hurt all the time. Things like standing at the counter doing dishes would make me want to cry, it hurt so bad. Now I rarely have pain, and it is short lived. However, I have been struggling with improving my forward fold and not seeing much progress. It always seems like my hamstrings are so tight, despite stretching. I did that test, and it is worse with flexed feet. That has improved, last month it hurt to do the stretch with flexed feet, now it just doesn't do much. I'm wondering if nerve tension is my issue. I googled some on it and found a couple of stretches.Got any underpants I can watch?:smile-new:

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4 minutes ago, Elastigirl said:

Woot for doing the scary complicated parkour jumps! And for not giving up on the scary climbs. I'm sure that next time they will be a bit easier.

  

Sciatic nerve: I used to have chronic sciatic nerve pain. My back hurt all the time. Things like standing at the counter doing dishes would make me want to cry, it hurt so bad. Now I rarely have pain, and it is short lived. However, I have been struggling with improving my forward fold and not seeing much progress. It always seems like my hamstrings are so tight, despite stretching. I did that test, and it is worse with flexed feet. That has improved, last month it hurt to do the stretch with flexed feet, now it just doesn't do much. I'm wondering if nerve tension is my issue. I googled some on it and found a couple of stretches.Got any underpants I can watch?:smile-new:

Thanks!! :D 

 

Yes! 

 

 

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Woaaa so much going on! It's hard to catch up :D

 

On 2/22/2019 at 11:33 PM, Mad Hatter said:

I'm loving these high energy boosts! Except that I'm CONSTANTLY HUNGRY! 

 

I'm not surprised either!

 

I also thought that one arm cartwheel looked very good!

 

On 2/23/2019 at 12:57 AM, Mad Hatter said:

I also found out that bumping the weight up to 31kg for my squats is already where I'm beginning to feel it's challenging. Not so much for strength yet, but for form and stability. Though in retrospect I wasn't wearing shoes today so that might have contributed? 

 

I've always done squats either without shoes or a flat sole (as per PT indication if I recall correctly). But there might be a reason why pros are using heels :D (at least the olympic lifting team at uni were using very specific shoes but powerlifters were not). I never really looked into it.

 

And oooohhh HS workshop :wub: I'm so jealous :D  Very interesting points you are making (e.g. compartimentalization) . How were the canes, how did they feel like?

 

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3 hours ago, @mu said:

I'm not surprised either!

 

I also thought that one arm cartwheel looked very good!

The struggle is still real. :P 

 

Thanks! :D

 

3 hours ago, @mu said:

I've always done squats either without shoes or a flat sole (as per PT indication if I recall correctly). But there might be a reason why pros are using heels :D (at least the olympic lifting team at uni were using very specific shoes but powerlifters were not). I never really looked into it.

I might be completely off, but to me it looks like heels would help in reducing the mobility needs just a smidgeon so you don't fall backwards in the super deep squats. Feels like it's less needed in powerlifting as the squats are more shallow. Maybe someone else can chime in. :) 

I'm curious to see the side by side difference between barefoot and shoes. My trainers are of the barefoot/minimalist kind but it feels like even that gives significant stability compared to no shoes. But mostly I think it's simply a new feeling for me to handle an external weight.

 

So scary! And awesome. They went up to my lower thigh-ish so it felt like my face was really far off the ground. :P It's also a bit disconcerting how much they move around, it gives a sense that you're not stable at all, when in fact you are more stable as instead of moving your body to compensate it's the canes that move.

The setup was nice, a soft box behind the canes to kick off from, at the same level as the top of the canes, and a squishy pad in front of the canes, so it was all really rather safe and easy to kick up. Even then I didn't quite dare to kick up with a spotter, and when I bailed I did it flat on my back as I was too busy death gripping the canes to do my regular cartwheel bail. :P I didn't spend much time on them though, I suspect you get used to it pretty quickly. I really wish they had more open gym hours to play!

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Today I went to parkour open gym and it was so much fun! As per usual. ;) This time we went to the other gym where my friend trains which I really enjoyed as they have a completely different setup. And there were more people to train with. I ended up doing a bit of everything, a lot of it was stuff that he's been trying in his more advanced class. I worked on

  • Climb ups - it was nice because they have an obstacle that's a bit lower than at my gym so I could actually do it. I linked it together into a little line.
  • A few different bar swings or basically monkeying around
  • Kong vaults - where I still really want to bring my hips in front me which then becomes a kash vault.
  • Turn vaults trying to be flashy and linking them straight into a cartwheel. One day I'll learn something that's actually cool. :D 
  • What my friend calls butt swings - you get up onto a high rail, squat down (noob version, proper version is with straight legs) and grab the rail between your hands, then basically you fall backwards into a big swing and push off and do something from there. My googlefu says it's a gymnastics toe shoot ish @raptron? Anyways my goal was only to fall backwards as that seemed really scary but it was actually ok after only a few tries. At this point I haven't even really understood how a regular bar swing dismount works so this felt like something for another day.
  • Dive rolls and parkour rolls over small obstacles. Gotta say that forward rolls are simple but pure fun. 
  • Stuff I failed at - jumping from a rail into a cat hang on a very tall obstacle. Purely mental, when I looked at the obstacle from the side it looks fine, but when it's in front of my face it's like this giant monolith that will break my face. Or something.

It's interesting to me because even though we both have like what less than 10 sessions under our belts, it's already obvious that we're better at completely different things and like completely different things. I mean it's all really, really fun, but for example he absolutely adores bar work, while for me it's something I only want to do in small doses right now (because of upper body recovery for climbing, skin recovery, heavy impact on my shoulders...). He also has a lot of power and a lot less fear so for him big jumps but with low precision is right up his alley. While I'm much more comfortable with balancing and rolls, "enjoy" precision jumps for the mental challenge and I'm dying to learn cool flashy moves, though that will take a while. :D Obviously I still want to be able to do all the things, but I just find it interesting how it can diverge so quickly. 

 

After parkour I was still full of energy so I convinced myself I would do the hip modules of myflex as I've only done them once this week. But after a spontaneous 1 hour walk, and another hour of grocery shopping/public transport/more walking I was absolutely pooped and starving when I got back home, had a few PB sandwiches and accidentally fell asleep on the sofa. I took it as a sign that maybe it's enough activity for today and instead I made dinner and baked chocolate chip cookies. I'm ok with that.

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Dinner and chocolate chip cookies sound good, feed yourself woman :* 

 

So many fun things in your updates that I wanted to respond to! Love the little handstand recap. Love the headspace gains on not only climbing but also on 'this is where I'm at right now' with regards to flexibility and strength. Jealous that you're able to do a pull-up ;) 

Love that you're helping your colleague with her squats! And elevating the heels is a very good call. 

 

On 2/24/2019 at 6:31 PM, Mad Hatter said:

I might be completely off, but to me it looks like heels would help in reducing the mobility needs just a smidgeon so you don't fall backwards in the super deep squats. Feels like it's less needed in powerlifting as the squats are more shallow. Maybe someone else can chime in. :) 

I'm curious to see the side by side difference between barefoot and shoes. My trainers are of the barefoot/minimalist kind but it feels like even that gives significant stability compared to no shoes. But mostly I think it's simply a new feeling for me to handle an external weight.

The heels mostly help with staying more upright. Powerlifters squat with the bar lower on their back and therefor the angle of their back is much more forward, that's why they either use flat shoes or only a slightly elevated heel (aptly called powerlifting shoes). Olympic lifters front squat a lot, which is far more upright of course.. but they also do back squats with the bar much higher up their back (i.e. high-bar back squats) that require far more ankle flexibility. So they use a higher heel (i.e. weightlifting shoes). 

 

I've noticed the difference between barefoot shoes and actual barefeet too.. you wouldn't expect it, but it's definitely there. 

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On 2/24/2019 at 9:01 PM, Mad Hatter said:

They went up to my lower thigh-ish so it felt like my face was really far off the ground.

 

oh my, that's high! I have done the grip of death from my parallettes and they are just 20cm high :D

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Ack, I feel so behind here because there is soooooooooo much awesome going on in here!

 

I'm quite surprised that you only just tried a one arm cartwheel for the first time.  For me it was the first thing I wanted to try after I learned the 2 hand version

 

On 2/23/2019 at 5:27 AM, Mad Hatter said:

1 it's good for wrist health to vary the position, and 2 different sensory input makes you better at balancing. However he does not think that training on soft surfaces is a good idea because while 2 is true, 1 is not.

This is very interesting and something that I wish I had read before I spent so much time doing handstands on grass and sand and ended up tweaking my wrist

 

On 2/24/2019 at 3:40 AM, Mad Hatter said:

My first two attempts I went slowly and could only manage to step up onto the first two holds but then had nothing for the jump, then I started picking up speed and got a lot further, but when I finally got it I had slowed it waaay down again.

Yeah, it really is more about technique than speed & power.  While you need a combination of both, getting the technique right means you can use a lot less of both to get there.

 

On 2/25/2019 at 2:31 AM, Mad Hatter said:

Anyways my goal was only to fall backwards as that seemed really scary but it was actually ok after only a few tries

This is another one of those things that I am too chicken to try.  My brain keeps telling me that I will lose my grip as soon as I start going backwards, and even though I know that isn't true my brain seems to be convinced that it is.

 

I have to admit, I am super jelly of your parkour class

 

Also, going back a few pages I had a question but I can't be bothered to go back and quote it.  You mentioned something about a gap between active and passing stretching.  What does that mean?

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On 2/17/2019 at 7:44 PM, Mad Hatter said:

Oh and I did this for the first time! It ain’t pretty but hey I didn’t fall flat on my face and it kinda sorta looks like a thing! :D 

 

 

 

Wow! I am impressed! How/why did I miss this earlier!? :D  You rock!

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I've never heard of this sciatic nerve issue impacting flexibility, I'm going to have to do some underpants gathering of my own! I'm also working on my forward fold and always have had trouble (though I know part of it is from tightness in my shins that stems from my messed up arches). MadHatter dropping knowledge!

 

knowledge.drop_.png?format=original

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On 2/22/2019 at 4:27 PM, Mad Hatter said:

I forced myself to rest as apparently I pulled a @raptron where I was on for 9 days in a row. Oops. 

SEE! It's easy to accidentally do. :P

 

On 2/22/2019 at 4:27 PM, Mad Hatter said:

On the plus side, I could do so many more climbs even on a bad day than I could only a few weeks back! :) I even managed to break into the next level colour grade! And the best part is that I don't even care! 

YAY! That is huge.

 

On 2/22/2019 at 4:27 PM, Mad Hatter said:

The biggest takeaways from the workshop or just things I liked were:

  • I know what to do I just need to do it... That consistency yo! Once a month ain't going to cut it.

I always hope you are going to come away from one of these and say "IT TURNS OUT THE ANSWER IS THIS MAGICAL THING THAT YOU DO ONCE AND THEN YOU HAVE PERFECT HANDSTANDS FOREVER." :P

 

On 2/24/2019 at 1:31 PM, Mad Hatter said:

Turn vaults trying to be flashy and linking them straight into a cartwheel. One day I'll learn something that's actually cool. :D 

STILL COOL. ;)

 

On 2/24/2019 at 1:31 PM, Mad Hatter said:

 

  • What my friend calls butt swings - you get up onto a high rail, squat down (noob version, proper version is with straight legs) and grab the rail between your hands, then basically you fall backwards into a big swing and push off and do something from there. My googlefu says it's a gymnastics toe shoot ish @raptron? Anyways my goal was only to fall backwards as that seemed really scary but it was actually ok after only a few tries. At this point I haven't even really understood how a regular bar swing dismount works so this felt like something for another day.

Do your feet go inside or outside your hands? Either way, they're fun things!!! So fun! And it's always so interesting to see how parkour/ninja people generate momentum for these things in much different ways than gymnasts do. :) 

 

On 2/24/2019 at 1:31 PM, Mad Hatter said:

After parkour I was still full of energy so I convinced myself I would do the hip modules of myflex as I've only done them once this week. But after a spontaneous 1 hour walk, and another hour of grocery shopping/public transport/more walking I was absolutely pooped and starving when I got back home, had a few PB sandwiches and accidentally fell asleep on the sofa. I took it as a sign that maybe it's enough activity for today and instead I made dinner and baked chocolate chip cookies. I'm ok with that.

COOKIES! 

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I watched that cirquephysio video and I learned sooooo much.  Now I know why my stretching has been so uncomfortable (nerve tension rather than muscle tightness) and why it has been so hard for me to see any progress (tension on both ends simultaneously is not ideal ofr nerve tension).  Now I need to go find some more resources for addressing nerve tension 

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On 2/26/2019 at 11:02 AM, raptron said:

SEE! It's easy to accidentally do. :P

Super easy - especially if you have multiple fitness-y things you like doing!

 

On 2/26/2019 at 11:02 AM, raptron said:

I always hope you are going to come away from one of these and say "IT TURNS OUT THE ANSWER IS THIS MAGICAL THING THAT YOU DO ONCE AND THEN YOU HAVE PERFECT HANDSTANDS FOREVER." :P

If only! :P

 

MH, that's SUPER EXCITING on the coding front - this is the first time in a while you've felt this excited by work, no? Loved reading your updates, the excitement for new projects and climbing / parkour / lifting progress was awesome.

 

FWIW, my best strength (and muscle mass) progress has been on the simplest, most bare-bones programs I've run - I think there may be a correlation there where less is actually more?

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