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Mad Hatter

Mad Hatter is too impatient to come up with a fancy title

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48 minutes ago, raptron said:

My friend started a new skincare program and she is now an hour late to go anywhere.

Again: ONE WHOLE HOUR?

 

31 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

I've noticed that many of us assassin veterans used to have some sort of diet goals on and off, but they've really changed focus from weight loss/calorie counting etc to IE and eating more nutritious food and feeling good rather than looking good.

When I first came here one of my main goals was to put on weight. I started experimenting with adding coconut milk shakes and taking care of the amount of calories I ate, but soon got tired of counting calories (really soon) and decided to focus on exercising. Weight went up just fine once my hunger levels started to match the amount of exercise I was doing. At some point I just stopped thinking about it. Now when I care about what I eat is more in terms of how many vegetables or variety I find in my meals. I hold NF fully responsible for this :D

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29 minutes ago, zenLara said:

When I first came here one of my main goals was to put on weight. I started experimenting with adding coconut milk shakes and taking care of the amount of calories I ate, but soon got tired of counting calories (really soon) and decided to focus on exercising. Weight went up just fine once my hunger levels started to match the amount of exercise I was doing. At some point I just stopped thinking about it. Now when I care about what I eat is more in terms of how many vegetables or variety I find in my meals. I hold NF fully responsible for this :D

Love it! And I love how we've all been converging towards this point without really explicitly talking about it, but through lots of trial and error and candid conversations. <3

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Out of curiosity (and feel free to just say NO if you don't want to engage), since it's relevant to my own situation, do you ever feel it IS appropriate for someone to have a weight loss focus to how they're eating? It comes up quite a bit when talking to family / friends with health issues (sleep apnea, high blood pressure, cholesterol, joint pain) which are highly likely to almost surely affected negatively by carrying excess weight (defined loosely here as being obese to morbidly obese by BMI without an obvious visual reason why BMI is a bad metric for them). And I can't in good conscience tell these people "no, you're fine at the weight you're at" (because as best I understand it, most obese people in my life ARE at a higher risk of heart disease than they would be if they got down to a lower weight) though I do emphasize increasing nutrient density (i.e. filling up on veggies / fruits, reducing quantity of potato chips aka crisps consumed) and getting active for the sake of having an overall well functioning body. Something I struggle to find the line with for myself, is where to draw the line between when body size might be a health issue vs. where it's just a societal pressure thing (with the recognition that body weight is a difficult factor to study for epidemiology research because it's a covariate with so many other factors that affect a lot of these health issues).

 

And jumping back to more interesting things, love that you treated yourself to some coffee and hope the neck stops being a butthead real soon.

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2 minutes ago, Mike Wazowski said:

Out of curiosity (and feel free to just say NO if you don't want to engage), since it's relevant to my own situation, do you ever feel it IS appropriate for someone to have a weight loss focus to how they're eating? It comes up quite a bit when talking to family / friends with health issues (sleep apnea, high blood pressure, cholesterol, joint pain) which are highly likely to almost surely affected negatively by carrying excess weight (defined loosely here as being obese to morbidly obese by BMI without an obvious visual reason why BMI is a bad metric for them). And I can't in good conscience tell these people "no, you're fine at the weight you're at" (because as best I understand it, most obese people in my life ARE at a higher risk of heart disease than they would be if they got down to a lower weight) though I do emphasize increasing nutrient density (i.e. filling up on veggies / fruits, reducing quantity of potato chips aka crisps consumed) and getting active for the sake of having an overall well functioning body. Something I struggle to find the line with for myself, is where to draw the line between when body size might be a health issue vs. where it's just a societal pressure thing (with the recognition that body weight is a difficult factor to study for epidemiology research because it's a covariate with so many other factors that affect a lot of these health issues).

This is for sure a tricky situation. Personally I prefer seeing high BF% as another symptom of longterm unhealthy habits or underlying physical or mental issues rather than a cause of disease in itself (though the fat in itself might contribute to the negative effects). A healthy and active* individual with good habits is just less likely to stabilise at a morbidly obese weight. It seems to me that you can choose to either focus on simply reducing size without necessarily making longterm positive changes (with extremely poor chance of success), or you can focus on making those positive changes for your overall wellbeing and the weight will likely come off as a result as a side effect. And even if the weight doesn't come off you'll still be a lot healthier than when you started and that in itself might be enough to reduce all those other symptoms and risk factors. In a way it boils down to the same thing if you want long term success, but I believe it makes such a big difference when you make it about feeling better and enabling fun things in life, right now and not sometime in the future when you're thin, rather than about size and judgement and health fears. Which is just going to increase stress and anxiety and make things much harder.

 

*I do believe that movement, though not necessarily exercise, is hugely important for well being and a functioning body.

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So I'm not super proud that I've been moping over my neck/trap tweak for the past 3 days and spending all my time binge watching YT videos.

But how incredible is this place??? I just adore all the shapes and textures!

 

 

Another person I've been watching a lot of is this chick who's a professional free runner. Her vlogs are not flashy at all which is the reason I like them. She does suuuuper cool stuff, but at the same she spends a lot of time landing on her butt and failing. Like A LOT of time. And that's not something you see very often in these shiny highly curated Instagram times. 

 

Here's a completely random video because I can't remember which vlogs were the best ones.

 

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4 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

It's so fascinating to me because I've noticed that many of us assassin veterans used to have some sort of diet goals on and off, but they've really changed focus from weight loss/calorie counting etc to IE and eating more nutritious food and feeling good rather than looking good.

And the odd "gotta fit into my competition weight category" ;)

 

4 hours ago, raptron said:

Yeah! We've grown together out of it together, haha. I've noticed that as well. :)

I laughed a bit and went to the next page- but then I went back, because.. that's really pretty awesome. 

 

2 hours ago, Mike Wazowski said:

Out of curiosity (and feel free to just say NO if you don't want to engage), since it's relevant to my own situation, do you ever feel it IS appropriate for someone to have a weight loss focus to how they're eating? It comes up quite a bit when talking to family / friends with health issues (sleep apnea, high blood pressure, cholesterol, joint pain) which are highly likely to almost surely affected negatively by carrying excess weight (defined loosely here as being obese to morbidly obese by BMI without an obvious visual reason why BMI is a bad metric for them). And I can't in good conscience tell these people "no, you're fine at the weight you're at" (because as best I understand it, most obese people in my life ARE at a higher risk of heart disease than they would be if they got down to a lower weight) though I do emphasize increasing nutrient density (i.e. filling up on veggies / fruits, reducing quantity of potato chips aka crisps consumed) and getting active for the sake of having an overall well functioning body. Something I struggle to find the line with for myself, is where to draw the line between when body size might be a health issue vs. where it's just a societal pressure thing (with the recognition that body weight is a difficult factor to study for epidemiology research because it's a covariate with so many other factors that affect a lot of these health issues).

MH pretty much wrote up the absolute perfect spot on reply to this.. but I just wanted to add some statistics that might help in conversation with family/friends.. it is only 5% of people that manage to keep up a weight loss for a year, and that's counting those that lost 10kg and gained 9kg back. That's terrifying statistics especially when you consider that gaining weight (even if it's less than you lost) is unhealthier than being overweight. 

Oh and to add to what MH said, when studying those 5% one of the factors most had in common is that they found some type of exercise/movement that they enjoyed doing. 

 

2 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

This is for sure a tricky situation. Personally I prefer seeing high BF% as another symptom of longterm unhealthy habits or underlying physical or mental issues rather than a cause of disease in itself (though the fat in itself might contribute to the negative effects). A healthy and active* individual with good habits is just less likely to stabilise at a morbidly obese weight. It seems to me that you can choose to either focus on simply reducing size without necessarily making longterm positive changes (with extremely poor chance of success), or you can focus on making those positive changes for your overall wellbeing and the weight will likely come off as a result as a side effect. And even if the weight doesn't come off you'll still be a lot healthier than when you started and that in itself might be enough to reduce all those other symptoms and risk factors. In a way it boils down to the same thing if you want long term success, but I believe it makes such a big difference when you make it about feeling better and enabling fun things in life, right now and not sometime in the future when you're thin, rather than about size and judgement and health fears. Which is just going to increase stress and anxiety and make things much harder.

 

*I do believe that movement, though not necessarily exercise, is hugely important for well being and a functioning body.

This is so well said I just wanted to quote it for truth. 

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2 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

This is for sure a tricky situation. Personally I prefer seeing high BF% as another symptom of longterm unhealthy habits or underlying physical or mental issues rather than a cause of disease in itself (though the fat in itself might contribute to the negative effects). A healthy and active* individual with good habits is just less likely to stabilise at a morbidly obese weight. It seems to me that you can choose to either focus on simply reducing size without necessarily making longterm positive changes (with extremely poor chance of success), or you can focus on making those positive changes for your overall wellbeing and the weight will likely come off as a result as a side effect. And even if the weight doesn't come off you'll still be a lot healthier than when you started and that in itself might be enough to reduce all those other symptoms and risk factors. In a way it boils down to the same thing if you want long term success, but I believe it makes such a big difference when you make it about feeling better and enabling fun things in life, right now and not sometime in the future when you're thin, rather than about size and judgement and health fears. Which is just going to increase stress and anxiety and make things much harder.

Ah, I think we have similar philosophies then - any change to bodyweight should be the result of healthy habit changes to be sustainable and some sort of movement is essential to a healthy life. That being said, if someone I care about initiates a conversation with me about weight loss, specifically, I aim to work it subtly into a conversation about long-term habit change (as a vehicle to successful and sustained weight loss) but I'm careful to approach it from a "Yes, and" perspective rather than "No, but."

 

2 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

*I do believe that movement, though not necessarily exercise, is hugely important for well being and a functioning body.

I'm curious: how do you draw the line? I don't think I've ever explicitly tried to disambiguate the two words before and mostly used them interchangeably.

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On 3/3/2019 at 2:59 AM, Mad Hatter said:

Hopefully I won't offend anyone, but weight loss and dieting is just such an uninteresting topic. Bodies are absolutely fascinating things and we can do soooo much cool stuff with them, and yet we're fixating on something as mundane as belly size. Really? Sometimes I wonder how much of the gender gap would be closed if women simply would stop spending hours and hours on thinking about diet and weight loss and shopping and did something interesting with that time instead...

I've loved reading this whole conversation, but this struck me more really hard. I work with so many brilliant, beautiful, talented women and multiple times a week the conversation turns to weight loss and diets and I just want to shake them out of it. I agree it's so much better ot be excited about what your body can do. I worked hard on a mindset shift being strong and moving well in my body is much more fun and feels so much better. :) I just want to figure out how to share it, but reading this convo has definitely helped.

 

Sorry to hear about your shoulder/neck, I hope it heals fast!

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This challenge is going very very well!! How is the neck? Usually those twists heal fast enough but they are so annoying!

 

Bah re the food, I never challenge myself on food because I know too well that I will likely rebel and probably do the exact opposite :lol: + if it ain't broken, don't fix it. I'm neither skinny nor overweight and I'm ok with that. I'm a bit more sensitive to how my body feels, like energetic and able to do things. At my previous work place, there were regular talks about about dieting and "fitness for weight loss" and I'd just blank out on those after a while.

 

8 hours ago, Mike Wazowski said:

I'm curious: how do you draw the line? I don't think I've ever explicitly tried to disambiguate the two words before and mostly used them interchangeably. 

 

The way I understand it is:  exercise for weight loss (do it until you burnt x calories) versus movement for fun, skills, social stuff (team sport), relaxation, art... In the first case, exercise is a tool (or possibly an instrument of torture). In the second case, movement is the goal in itself, something enjoyable on its own. You don't even need to "progress" in movement (follow a programme, have the consistency, discipline and so on). Like just going out for a walk, ride a horse, swim in the sea, go dancing in a club, take care of your garden...

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9 hours ago, KB Girl said:

And the odd "gotta fit into my competition weight category" ;)

Well that's a fair reason for weight loss. :) 

 

9 hours ago, KB Girl said:

MH pretty much wrote up the absolute perfect spot on reply to this.. but I just wanted to add some statistics that might help in conversation with family/friends.. it is only 5% of people that manage to keep up a weight loss for a year, and that's counting those that lost 10kg and gained 9kg back. That's terrifying statistics especially when you consider that gaining weight (even if it's less than you lost) is unhealthier than being overweight. 

It is terrifying, but I want to make clear that this doesn't mean your family @Mike Wazowski or anyone else looking to lose weight is doomed. This just shows that the dieting approach and weight loss focus is unlikely to be successful. 

 

9 hours ago, Mike Wazowski said:

I'm curious: how do you draw the line? I don't think I've ever explicitly tried to disambiguate the two words before and mostly used them interchangeably.

These ideas mainly come from Katy Bowman's work, though her definition is a lot more primal - movement is what you do to ensure survival and shelter and food, exercise is basically everything else. I think about it in much softer terms which @@mu pretty much nailed...

 

41 minutes ago, @mu said:

The way I understand it is:  exercise for weight loss (do it until you burnt x calories) versus movement for fun, skills, social stuff (team sport), relaxation, art... In the first case, exercise is a tool (or possibly an instrument of torture). In the second case, movement is the goal in itself, something enjoyable on its own. You don't even need to "progress" in movement (follow a programme, have the consistency, discipline and so on). Like just going out for a walk, ride a horse, swim in the sea, go dancing in a club, take care of your garden...

All I'd like to add is that weight loss doesn't have to be the motivator, it can just as well be health and thinking along the lines of "if I don't go to the gym 3x/week and walk 10000 steps I'll die a painful and premature death". Intent really is key here. Now there's nothing wrong with exercise (or wanting to lose weight for that matter!) but it's not something you *have* to do in order to stay healthy and if you hate it then that's just going to add unnecessary stress. Sitting still 98% of the time and going balls to the walls might even be a worse option. Being completely sedentary is however harmful as the body's internal systems rely on movement.

 

57 minutes ago, @mu said:

Bah re the food, I never challenge myself on food because I know too well that I will likely rebel and probably do the exact opposite :lol:

Haha yep that's me. :lol: Though it took me a surprisingly long time to learn!

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57 minutes ago, @mu said:

This challenge is going very very well!! How is the neck? Usually those twists heal fast enough but they are so annoying!

Almost good! :) I did consider going to parkour yesterday and spend all my time on rail balances, but in the end I decided rest would be a better option than risking a setback. There's still one point that feels stuck and hurts, but my range of motion is close to normal. I really, really, really hope I'll be ready for acro tomorrow.

 

On the plus side I'm just going to call this my deload week and skip the one in my calendar which I was getting really unexcited about. ;) 

 

3 hours ago, Suzaqu said:

I've loved reading this whole conversation, but this struck me more really hard. I work with so many brilliant, beautiful, talented women and multiple times a week the conversation turns to weight loss and diets and I just want to shake them out of it. I agree it's so much better ot be excited about what your body can do. I worked hard on a mindset shift being strong and moving well in my body is much more fun and feels so much better. :) I just want to figure out how to share it, but reading this convo has definitely helped.

Go forth and spread the word! :D 

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4 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

It is terrifying, but I want to make clear that this doesn't mean your family @Mike Wazowski or anyone else looking to lose weight is doomed. This just shows that the dieting approach and weight loss focus is unlikely to be successful. 

Yes thank you for clarifying, didn't mean to paint a doom scenario x) Just extra added motivation to look at other ways to get where you (your family) want to be. 

 

4 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

On the plus side I'm just going to call this my deload week and skip the one in my calendar which I was getting really unexcited about. ;)

Yes! Hope you get to do pain free acro tomorrow :)

Can we get a daily positive actions list too? <3 
I'll help; "- being smart about skipping parkour even though it sucks" 

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Yesterday's positive actions 

  • 2 hours ago, KB Girl said:

     I'll help; "- being smart about skipping parkour even though it sucks" 

    Thanks for the help! :lol:

  • Even if I was super mopey I was nice to myself about it. I realized that I was sad because I was in desperate need of a good sleep and even if it feels like I haven't done anything fun in forever I've actually only had one day where I did nothing.
  • Learnt more new stuff at work! (Go for anyone interested)
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This whole conversation about weight loss has been really good food for thought for me recently.  I think I am (SLOWLY!)  starting to really come around to the mindset that it really doesn't matter how much body fat I have as long as I can do the things I want to do.  Sure, weighing less helps with some bodyweight stuff, but so does getting stronger.  It's hard, though, because there is so much societal pressure to look a certain way and it can be hard to ignore the message bombardment.  I imagine this is probably much harder for you wimminfolk

 

Conversations like this are very helpful

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4 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

Sure, weighing less helps with some bodyweight stuff, but so does getting stronger. 

It does, and it does make it easier on the joints. Then again getting stronger in absolute terms will last longer. What if you get on medication that makes you gain weight, or get injured or sick and can't train? Then the extra strength and muscle mass will come in handy! :) I'd say going for strength first is always a good option. If you one day truly plateau in your strength development then maybe it's worth a more serious consideration, but losing weight as a quick fix seems meh if you're ok with your body. But of course you do you, I don't want to put you off your goals. I'm just saying this because you seem to be reaching this conclusion anyway.

 

7 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

I imagine this is probably much harder for you wimminfolk

Here I'd say yes but after hearing about your situation in China with the constant comments and prodding I'm not so sure. :o 

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6 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Yesterday's positive actions 

  • 9 hours ago, KB Girl said:

     I'll help; "- being smart about skipping parkour even though it sucks" 

    Thanks for the help! :lol:

  • Even if I was super mopey I was nice to myself about it. I realized that I was sad because I was in desperate need of a good sleep and even if it feels like I haven't done anything fun in forever I've actually only had one day where I did nothing.
  • Learnt more new stuff at work! (Go for anyone interested)

<3 love these lists, really really do

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10 hours ago, KB Girl said:

<3 love these lists, really really do

Me too!

 

Yesterday was not a great day, the procrastination monster was winning big time. I procrastinated training with work and work with different kind of work and tidying with youtube. It was not great. The work part was the silliest, I had to modify some small parts that I had already done last week and it was working just fine, but since this new area is far out of my comfort zone I kept procrastinating committing it for review, so not even the doing part.

 

Positive actions

Even if the day sucked I really wanted to put down ONE positive action for the day, so before bed I put on a chill song, turned off the lights so I couldn't see the mess in my flat haha and did a 3 minute low pole flow.

 

---

 

The not so great streak is continuing with acro this morning where I got completely irrationally disappointed and frustrated with myself. I felt like I couldn't do anything, and my shoulder started getting achy about halfway through. It wasn't actually bad at all but it was enough to distract me from what I was trying to do. Also I do.not.get capoeira/tricking style kicks/leg sweeps. My teacher like to throw them into longer sequences but because I don't understand how to do the moves I end up trying to do just the steps without shifting my weight which just causes more confusion as I can't naturally flow between the moves. I think I'm going to spend some time this week trying to understand how these moves work. If anyone has advice please throw it at me!

Besides that the "move of the day" was a roundoff into a handstand roll with a 180 turn. It looks great when my teacher does it. ;) 

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6 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Positive actions

Even if the day sucked I really wanted to put down ONE positive action for the day, so before bed I put on a chill song, turned off the lights so I couldn't see the mess in my flat haha and did a 3 minute low pole flow.

Love that you did this anyway!

 

6 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

The not so great streak is continuing with acro this morning where I got completely irrationally disappointed and frustrated with myself. I felt like I couldn't do anything, and my shoulder started getting achy about halfway through. It wasn't actually bad at all but it was enough to distract me from what I was trying to do. Also I do.not.get capoeira/tricking style kicks/leg sweeps. My teacher like to throw them into longer sequences but because I don't understand how to do the moves I end up trying to do just the steps without shifting my weight which just causes more confusion as I can't naturally flow between the moves. I think I'm going to spend some time this week trying to understand how these moves work. If anyone has advice please throw it at me!

HMMM. I do not really have good advice other than filming yourself! 

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16 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Also I do.not.get capoeira/tricking style kicks/leg sweeps.

Are these the front leg sweeps, the back leg sweeps or the overhead sweeps?

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10 hours ago, raptron said:

Love that you did this anyway!

 

HMMM. I do not really have good advice other than filming yourself! 

Always a good thing to do!

 

21 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

Are these the front leg sweeps, the back leg sweeps or the overhead sweeps?

Yes (to the inside and to the outside), yes, possibly can't remember. We've also done them more upright sometimes and sometimes low sometimes touching the floor. The last ones feel more natural.

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Alright back on track! Only procrastinated a little this morning but I managed to go through the whole flexy program, including the abs "cool down". Yay! I feel like even if I haven't made much progress yet my body feels and moves a lot better as long as I keep it up.

 

Then I broke a thing at work and spent hours trying to find a way to fix it before anyone noticed. :P Unfortunately I had locked my own, and ahem almost everyone else's credentials, and was pretty much powerless and in the end I had to admit defeat. Luckily it took about 30s to fix but I felt very, very silly. Umm yay for learning new stuff?

 

I'm however glad that I'm not one of the people working at the Minsk office, because honestly we're being terrible people to them. It's great fun. :D They've just written their first thing to be integrated with our system which means they're touching our stuff and frankly we're not happy about it. The few people that we've picked are the best of the bunch, but they're really not the greatest coders and they have a habit of over engineering everything. Hopefully we can beat the habit out of them, and as a first step everyone in the backend team had fun absolutely ripping apart their code today. It was rather amusing as my boss specifically asked me to get into my picky mode (me, picky, never!) though unfortunately I was the third person to review so I only managed to find one dumb thing left. It was a good one though. ;) 

 

Thought about going climbing in the evening, but my body felt so good after the morning training and I didn't want to risk ruining the first good feeling in 5 days. Plus it was icky outside. Instead I did a bunch of much need adulting and I feel so much better for having done it.

 

Positive actions

  • Back on the flexy train
  • Laundry
  • Tidied kitchen
  • Vacuumed
  • Cooked lunch for tomorrow
  • A few handstands
  • Didn't procrastinate quite as much as I've been doing lately
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On 2/28/2019 at 2:16 PM, Mad Hatter said:

Yeah it's been a loooong, long time since I felt good about my work. Now I'm learning a whole bunch of stuff, in two completely different areas, and using new shiny tools. And overall I already feel much better about my skills as they're becoming more well rounded and I gain more independence and ability to get shit done.

 

Yay!! This is so huge!!!

 

On 2/28/2019 at 2:32 PM, Mad Hatter said:

Then I did some work on kongs/cat passes because she noticed that I'm *really* close to being able to do them. I just need a little more guts to lean forward I think. Which is intimidating because that just brings my head closer to the ground. :P

 

They are SO SCARY!! What are some of the tips she's giving you to get that last few percent of the way there? Anything besides just the leaning forward bit?

 

On 3/4/2019 at 11:51 AM, Mad Hatter said:

It's so fascinating to me because I've noticed that many of us assassin veterans used to have some sort of diet goals on and off, but they've really changed focus from weight loss/calorie counting etc to IE and eating more nutritious food and feeling good rather than looking good.

 

I've noticed that too! There has been a trend!

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How are you liking the flexi program overall?  I have been incorporating some of the recent stuff she posted on IG into my shoulder stretching and I think it has been pretty good for me. (my shoulder has been especially cranky lately and needs some extra TLC)

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10 hours ago, Happienumber said:

They are SO SCARY!! What are some of the tips she's giving you to get that last few percent of the way there? Anything besides just the leaning forward bit?

Mostly just leaning forward in order to get my hips up. And drive a bit more with my arms for a bit more power. 

 

42 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

How are you liking the flexi program overall?  I have been incorporating some of the recent stuff she posted on IG into my shoulder stretching and I think it has been pretty good for me. (my shoulder has been especially cranky lately and needs some extra TLC)

I love it!! :) I'm about a month in, but I haven't managed quite the 2x/week that I'm aiming for so it's not surprising that progress is slow. But it's still very early days. The program is very, very long when doing all modules in one sitting, but I've noticed that I prefer it that way as it feels more like a workout than a PT session and since I keep warm I can push harder in each exercise. I don't have shiny flexy goals at the moment though, I mainly do it to keep my joints happy and it's excellent for that and my body feels waaay better after having started it. If I did however have shiny goals I'd probably stick to one or two modules and do them more often instead as that'd be more time efficient. When it comes to programming I find that it's a very good mix of exercises of varying intensity between feel good and brutal and it feels like they all have a point and fit well together. And of course the fact that it's customized to my needs is gold. I also find that simply knowing that I'll have to redo the assessment to get my new program in a few months is a motivator for me. I'd be so excited if I can get out of some of the remedial categories. :lol:

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