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Grumble

Grumble Finishes Strong In Story and Song

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1 minute ago, scalyfreak said:

 

I tend to think of all diets as fads, to be honest. If it has a catchy name that is easy to remember (never more than two syllables, unless you can write the rest of them with numbers!),

Ketogenic diet

Paleolithic diet

 

1 minute ago, scalyfreak said:

and involves complete or near-complete elimintaton of select food groups that enjoy a particularly bad reputation at the time the diet makes a splash in mainstream traditional and social media, then it's a fad diet. How long it sticks around, is not nearly as relevant in my mind.

 

 

1 minute ago, scalyfreak said:

 

Because women is a demographic that it is so difficult to market fad diets to...? :rolleyes:

No, but whole30 is definitely a paleo offshoot, and that *scares* women off. So you make it a more pleasant sounding name and attach some of the benefits that are going to happen anyway as a feature (not a byproduct) of the diet, and voila. Also why I'm not buying the book. 

 

1 minute ago, scalyfreak said:

 

Another hallmark of fad diets.

 

Snark and negativity aside, if that's what it takes, I can think of a lot worse places to start from. Any positive changes have my full support. (Especially the ones with silly names that are easy to mock. ;) )

Don't disagree, but Mrs Grumble supported me when I was on my SUPER restrictive diet, this is damn near cruise line buffet table.

 

1 minute ago, scalyfreak said:

 

This actually is a good example of my previous point. From this thread and Grumble's article, it looks to me as if the idea with Whole30 is to eliminate absolutely everything that can cause food allergies, intolerances, or negative reactions, for a month. This resets everything, so if your joint pain, or rash, or whatever it was, goes away, then you know it was something you ate. You identify the most likely culprit, reintroduce that food, and if the symptom comes back, you know the cause of it. And so on. Your body and your food are a science experiment.

And Like any goof science experiment, you should probably lick and see what the reaction is.

 

1 minute ago, scalyfreak said:

Then the internet heard about it, and decided that a diet that eliminate all sugar, gluten, and dairy, is the best thing ever and will lead to instant weight loss, and this drowns out all the relevant information, including the most important articles that talk about the possible risks involved in doing an elimination diet on your own.

Because the internet is dumb. Unfortunately.

Also, I convinced her last night to go talk to a nutritionist and her GP about it first. Because I try not to be dumb.

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23 hours ago, Grumble said:

It's Grumble. Your Guild leader best friend, and your... final challenge boy.

 

Yup, this will be my last challenge for an indeterminate period of time. Am I done improving? Nope. Will I still need advice and help in the future? Yup. But I'm hitting a good place. And not challenging frees up a little extra NF bandwidth to do more GL stuff, which I have been slacking on.

 

I'm running in the marathon on March 24th. 6 months of training. When I started my projected time was over 5 1/2 hours. It is now between 4:15 and 4:30. This has been a long time coming. I'm excited.

 

So.... the marathon is your final boss fight, for this game, at least? May it be GLORIOUS. 

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6 minutes ago, Mike Wazowski said:

Whole30 includes no booze, FWIW. I know far too much about a diet I would never bother to try.

 Hence my meandering path into whole30 after the marathon. :D Because Whiskey is Neat.

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Just now, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

It is if you serve it properly.

You are the Paladin to my Fighter. I just want you to know how much I appreciate you.

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12 minutes ago, Grumble said:

No, but whole30 is definitely a paleo offshoot, and that *scares* women off. So you make it a more pleasant sounding name and attach some of the benefits that are going to happen anyway as a feature (not a byproduct) of the diet, and voila

 

12 minutes ago, Grumble said:

Because the internet is dumb.

 

I feel like you said the same thing twice here. :P

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I've done a few Whole 30s. It has a bit of a cult following (like Paleo and Keto) that I find a little off-putting. I also think that vilifying healthy food (like legumes) is unnecessary.  That said, I didn't think it was a terrible idea. Basically, eat fruits, vegetables, and healthy meat.  Cut some things out to see if you have a bad reaction.  See how you feel.  My husband found out that he has some bad reactions to dairy (not enough to stop entirely, because cheese is delicious), but it was a worthwhile experiment.  I've used it occasionally to get myself back into good habits of eating healthy (like remembering that it is okay to ask to substitute vegetables at restaurants, or to drink water or tea instead of booze). 

 

I think it can have negative emotional effects if you're super strict about it. The first time I did a Whole 30, I felt like "I want to eat this way forever!" then got down on myself for "failing."  I refuse to do anything that strict anymore, but I think it can be helpful in figuring out if something makes you sick, and also in helping to set up guideposts. 

 

So, not bad, and actually pretty healthy, just not sustainable. 

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14 minutes ago, snowkc said:

I've done a few Whole 30s. It has a bit of a cult following (like Paleo and Keto) that I find a little off-putting. I also think that vilifying healthy food (like legumes) is unnecessary.  That said, I didn't think it was a terrible idea. Basically, eat fruits, vegetables, and healthy meat.  Cut some things out to see if you have a bad reaction.  See how you feel.  My husband found out that he has some bad reactions to dairy (not enough to stop entirely, because cheese is delicious), but it was a worthwhile experiment.  I've used it occasionally to get myself back into good habits of eating healthy (like remembering that it is okay to ask to substitute vegetables at restaurants, or to drink water or tea instead of booze). 

 

I think it can have negative emotional effects if you're super strict about it. The first time I did a Whole 30, I felt like "I want to eat this way forever!" then got down on myself for "failing."  I refuse to do anything that strict anymore, but I think it can be helpful in figuring out if something makes you sick, and also in helping to set up guideposts. 

 

So, not bad, and actually pretty healthy, just not sustainable. 

It comes back to the inflammatory properties in legumes. I think, and has been mentioned, that the purpose is not to villify any food, but to figure out what your body doesn't like. Like your husband did with dairy (which I'm personally concerned I might have a reaction to). The nice thing about this, is I'm not treating it as a diet, but as an experiment. And like any good experiment, it's got a definite shelf life.

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1 hour ago, Harriet said:

 

So.... the marathon is your final boss fight, for this game, at least? May it be GLORIOUS. 

Yea. Final Boss. New Game+ lets me come back as a boss character and run rampant.

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1 hour ago, Harriet said:

 

So.... the marathon is your final boss fight, for this game, at least? May it be GLORIOUS. 

 

1 minute ago, Grumble said:

Yea. Final Boss. New Game+ lets me come back as a boss character and run rampant.

 

 

I see what you did there with your words. I chuckled. 

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50 minutes ago, Grumble said:

It comes back to the inflammatory properties in legumes. I think, and has been mentioned, that the purpose is not to villify any food, but to figure out what your body doesn't like. Like your husband did with dairy (which I'm personally concerned I might have a reaction to). The nice thing about this, is I'm not treating it as a diet, but as an experiment. And like any good experiment, it's got a definite shelf life.

What inflammatory properties? I was under the impression calling phytic acid/phytates "anti-nutrients" was at best junk science, and the gas effects of legumes have been demonstrated to go away with consistent consumption in controlled experiments (with a believed mechanism of the body adjusting to the fiber content). By stripping out legumes and whole grains for a whole month, I suspect that the Whole30 method might lead people to "conclude" that they have a mild intolerance to grains and/or legumes upon reintroduction when, in reality, they simply are experiencing the side effects of an acute increase in fiber consumption. I have similar concerns with removing dairy as well - Whole30 feels like it's encouragingn people through doing something on their own that would really best be done in consultation with a medical professional.

 

As best I understand it, the body's digestive system is a highly adaptive collection of organisms and I'm worried that any prescribed "experiment" via a Whole30 type approach doesn't keep appopriately long timeframes to allow the body to adjust before measuring how one feels under a changed way of eating.

 

All that to be said, if eating a lot of lean meats, vegetables, fruit, and little else for a month sounds appealing and you're aware that there'll probably be an adjustment period when you come off it regardless of whether you actually have any food intolerance, all the more power to you.

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22 minutes ago, Mike Wazowski said:

What inflammatory properties? I was under the impression calling phytic acid/phytates "anti-nutrients" was at best junk science, and the gas effects of legumes have been demonstrated to go away with consistent consumption in controlled experiments (with a believed mechanism of the body adjusting to the fiber content). By stripping out legumes and whole grains for a whole month, I suspect that the Whole30 method might lead people to "conclude" that they have a mild intolerance to grains and/or legumes upon reintroduction when, in reality, they simply are experiencing the side effects of an acute increase in fiber consumption. I have similar concerns with removing dairy as well - Whole30 feels like it's encouraging people through doing something on their own that would really best be done in consultation with a medical professional.

 

This would be a major concern of mine as well, with a diet like Whole30. Obviously someone who is aware of this will give their body time to adjust before drawing conclusions, but as Grumble already established, the internet is stupid...

 

I'm also thinking that Grumble's idea to see a doctor before embarking on the diet in question probably has to do with the above.

 

Also, I feel like Mike's point is directly related to this:

 

Quote

A study of 40 443 US adults, published in the medical journal JAMA Network Open, estimates that nearly 19 percent of adults think they have food allergies, but approximately 10.8% actually do. Additionally, only 1 in 20 are estimated to have a physician-diagnosed food allergy. 

 

My emphasis. Source The article links to the study.

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13 minutes ago, Mike Wazowski said:

What inflammatory properties? I was under the impression calling phytic acid/phytates "anti-nutrients" was at best junk science, and the gas effects of legumes have been demonstrated to go away with consistent consumption in controlled experiments (with a believed mechanism of the body adjusting to the fiber content). By stripping out legumes and whole grains for a whole month, I suspect that the Whole30 method might lead people to "conclude" that they have a mild intolerance to grains and/or legumes upon reintroduction when, in reality, they simply are experiencing the side effects of an acute increase in fiber consumption. I have similar concerns with removing dairy as well - Whole30 feels like it's encouragingn people through doing something on their own that would really best be done in consultation with a medical professional.

 

As best I understand it, the body's digestive system is a highly adaptive collection of organisms and I'm worried that any prescribed "experiment" via a Whole30 type approach doesn't keep appopriately long timeframes to allow the body to adjust before measuring how one feels under a changed way of eating.

 

All that to be said, if eating a lot of lean meats, vegetables, fruit, and little else for a month sounds appealing and you're aware that there'll probably be an adjustment period when you come off it regardless of whether you actually have any food intolerance, all the more power to you.

 

Research tends to agree with you (mostly abstracts because I'm not paying for a pay wall for an internet discussion), so I learned something new. Other research into what whole30 is actually saying is not that they are inflammatory in and of themselves (inflammatory is going to be a very searchable word on this challenge) But more what you are talking about with the gas and bloating being attached to the fiber increase. SO that would make sense and is another part of why Mrs G is going to the doc before we start.

 

Something I did find about the phytates that lends itself to being junk science is when a diet was not balanced and super heavy on foods with higher concentrations of phytic acid food, plus studies on mice (why do we do food studies on mice again?) So yea, I'm definitely leaning into the concept of legumes being bad for you really being bullshit for dollars. 

 

7 minutes ago, scalyfreak said:
Quote

A study of 40 443 US adults, published in the medical journal JAMA Network Open, estimates that nearly 19 percent of adults think they have food allergies, but approximately 10.8% actually do. Additionally, only 1 in 20 are estimated to have a physician-diagnosed food allergy. 

 

My emphasis. Source The article links to the study.

 

I'm not looking for food allergies. I already know I don't have any. Mostly because I eat everything and didn't die. What I am less certain about (and there's some medical stuff with Mrs G that is not mine to share) is digestive issues. I know when I am gassy from bad  eating and the results are very clear, but I don't know exactly what I eat that causes it. Also, I don't eat enough fibrous stuff and if this helps me get back into a properly stalked diet, then so be it.

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I'm gonna make this big for emphasis.

 

IF I'M SPOUTING BULLSHIT, CALL ME OUT ON IT.

 

I want to know when I'm wrong. And I'm not above adjusting my point of view when provided facts. 

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Nice to hear everyone's opinions on legumes. Nerd fitness articles got me looking into paleo, but the nerd fitness rebellion has tempered my worries about food. I got pretty anxious when I first read about anti-nutrients in beans and whole grains and photo-estrogens in tofu, because I was really pinning all my hopes on diet to cure my fatigue and all other ailments, and I started to think eating "healthy" would be very restrictive and difficult. I got into a fearful mindset about food and worried a lot about it, because at the same time Mr Harriet was asking me to buy and cook less meat (so... I could eat egg salad and tears).

But then people I respect like Marion Nestle and Michael Pollan were saying whole grains and legumes are useful and good.*shrug* I think reducing processed foods is doing about 80% of the good work in my diet nowadays. Also, anyone who wants to take my dairy will have to step over my corpse (and then shriek in terror as it grabs them by the ankles because necromancy).


Anyway, you can do whole30 if you want. Sounds awful to me, but I get emotional about food, and maybe you don't. Also, a doctor can walk you through a FODMAP diet if you 're interested to see if you have any problems with common foods. It sucks though, because you have to start with something like rice bubbles with water and gradually introduce things every week or two. The fodmap diet is not healthy in itself, obviously. I wouldn't do it unless I had ongoing unexplained gut problems. And I wonder if cutting out foods is really a better solution than cultivating a strong gut microbiome that can cope with the foods we want to eat.

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1 hour ago, Grumble said:

I'm not looking for food allergies. I already know I don't have any. Mostly because I eat everything and didn't die. What I am less certain about (and there's some medical stuff with Mrs G that is not mine to share) is digestive issues. I know when I am gassy from bad  eating and the results are very clear, but I don't know exactly what I eat that causes it. Also, I don't eat enough fibrous stuff and if this helps me get back into a properly stalked diet, then so be it.

 

It's important distinguish between allergy and intolerance. Allergy is when your immune system goes on the attack because something that isn't actually dangerous to your body, like peanut butter or shell fish, has been identified as a lethal threat that must be eliminated at all cost. The something that triggered the full tactical response is called "allergen", and you can become allergic at any point in your life by being exposed to allergens like pets, pollen, various kinds of food, et cetera. The exposure leads to the mis-identification, which leads to the allergy. Similarly, exposure to an allergen can make a mild allergy more severe.

 

The most severe allergic response is known as "anaphylactic shock", and that is how allergies kill.

 

By contrast, an intolerance means that your body can't handle the substance you're exposing it to, and in its futile efforts to do so anyway, your body develops various illness/damage symptoms. For example, flatulence is a common symptom for food intolerance - your body lacks the ability to digest something you ingested, and unsurprisingly that gives you indigestion. In severe cases, the symptoms mirror food poisoning.

 

And then there is IBS, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, and all to other fun things that can go wrong with our digestive systems. But ultimately, if eating dairy makes you queasy and avoiding it makes you feel good, does it matter if it's intolerance, allergy, or IBS, as long as you avoid it?

 

Disclaimer: All of the above based on living with allergies and intolerances in the family for as long as I can remember.

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Me reading all of the food things:

giphy.gif

 

Kinda sad this will be your last challenge for a while, but glad it's because you feel like you're in a good place. :) (And I do hope you actually do plan to end in song :P)

 

BTW, what does being a GL require of you? Other than just deleting spam and whatnot. Often wondered what the admins do when they're on the clock..

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55 minutes ago, Harriet said:

Also, anyone who wants to take my dairy will have to step over my corpse (and then shriek in terror as it grabs them by the ankles because necromancy)

I love dairy, and will probably never give it up. (I will fight for the right to be cheesy) and I kinda did when I was doing my weight loss thingie last may, but I didn't reintroduce them properly because I was mostly doing it solo, this time I get to be the enforcer because someone else has instigated the healthy eating change. So it will be a more refined process of reintroduction.

 

24 minutes ago, scalyfreak said:

By contrast, an intolerance means that your body can't handle the substance you're exposing it to, and in its futile efforts to do so anyway, your body develops various illness/damage symptoms. For example, flatulence is a common symptom for food intolerance - your body lacks the ability to digest something you ingested, and unsurprisingly that gives you indigestion. In severe cases, the symptoms mirror food poisoning.

But I don't know what it is, and I find it's easier to clear my body of residual crap (no pun intended) and reintroduce, than to try to eliminate one thing at a time and see how it falls out. (maybe pun intended)

 

16 minutes ago, JustCallMeAmber said:

Me reading all of the food things:

giphy.gif

You should replace this with peanut butter.

 

16 minutes ago, JustCallMeAmber said:

Kinda sad this will be your last challenge for a while, but glad it's because you feel like you're in a good place. :) (And I do hope you actually do plan to end in song :P)

I'm not sure you want me to do that. I can hold a tune in a bucket, but that's about it.

 

16 minutes ago, JustCallMeAmber said:

BTW, what does being a GL require of you? Other than just deleting spam and whatnot. Often wondered what the admins do when they're on the clock..

Being supportive, keeping civil discourse civil, helping new members, being present. That kind of thing. 

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50 minutes ago, Grumble said:

But I don't know what it is, and I find it's easier to clear my body of residual crap (no pun intended) and reintroduce, than to try to eliminate one thing at a time and see how it falls out. (maybe pun intended)

 

Probably a lot more time efficient too. For me there was a comprehensive and obvious family history of dairy intolerance, so I had a natural starting point. If you don't have that, the eliminating everything and reintroducing one at a time will be way more exact.

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5 hours ago, JustCallMeAmber said:

 

BTW, what does being a GL require of you? Other than just deleting spam and whatnot. Often wondered what the admins do when they're on the clock..

 

4 hours ago, Grumble said:

 

 

Being supportive, keeping civil discourse civil, helping new members, being present. That kind of thing. 

 

 

Don't forget wielding that sweet sweet banhammer. Like Mjolnir but more ban-y :) 

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5 minutes ago, bigm141414 said:

 

 

 

Don't forget wielding that sweet sweet banhammer. Like Mjolnir but more ban-y :) 

Just call me Bruce. Also, why do you think my avatar is a giant green muscly guy? 

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