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Laghail and the NINE-NINE!

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Hey folks, rocking out a three goal challenge with a weekday posting strategy.




  • MFP on da daily (tracking this one is on you bitches, I put my shit on MFP and you can creep on it there, aint gonsta post about it lessen I fuck it up)


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  • Sleep 6.5 or more hours, Sunday night through Thursday night




  • Write 100 words or more, every weekday


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Might end up writing about hippy stuff, might end up ranting about religion, def will shitpost bad webcomics, but who gnows.

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10 minutes ago, Mike Wazowski said:

Curses, can't even manage to be first for your return! Here for the chronicling of your slow descent into or climbing out of madness, can never tell which. :P 


Dude. Been reading dis book and I can't tell either. You know how when you're reading a mythology that's patently trite and you can clearly see the cultural currents underneath the teleology they're frantically retconning into existence, but then, just before you throw the book across the room in disgust, a paragraph hits you and wrecks your mind for a little bit? Yeah, that. 



Part of our strength is our fluidity, our capacity to change, to disguise ourselves on stages self-created and otherwise, to pass for things that we are not, to be invisible. But there is another side to this strength. We can be liars, we can get trapped in deception, social and romantic. We can waste our lives pretending to be things that we are not. We can be superficial, obsessed with image and attitude. Now, honor your capacity for invention, for dreaming, for fantasy, and come back to your innate fluidity again. Sing from it, dance from it, cook from it, move from it, laugh from it, sleep from it. Own your genius, own your splendor.


Image result for two flutes playing



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  • MFP on da daily

On. Da. Daily.

  • Sleep 6.5 or more hours, Sunday night through Thursday night


  • Write 100 words or more, every weekday

150 words mes chiennes!!


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26 minutes ago, Laghail said:
  • MFP on da daily

On. Da. Daily.

  • Sleep 6.5 or more hours, Sunday night through Thursday night


  • Write 100 words or more, every weekday

150 words mes chiennes!!


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I only count 29. 

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1 minute ago, scalyfreak said:


26. Numbers aren't words. :P

Benefit of the doubt. It's been a while since Lag challenged, he's probably out of practice. 

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I was thinking this morning that it had been a while since I had seen anything from Laghail so I wandered over here to take a looksee and here you are :)   

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On 3/30/2019 at 12:24 AM, WhiteGhost said:

I was thinking this morning that it had been a while since I had seen anything from Laghail so I wandered over here to take a looksee and here you are :)   

And correlation demands causation, therefore you caused me to return!!!!

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  • MFP on da daily

Skipped Saturday, Caturday and at least one other fictional day of the week. 

  • Sleep 6.5 or more hours, Sunday night through Thursday night

6 last night which is pretty fucking good for a Sunday night, but nah son, we do better.

  • Write 100 words or more, every weekday

Got it on friday. Also on Caturday. 




What if being a Utilitarian makes you sad? We should probably kill all the Utilitarians just to be safe.

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1 minute ago, RedStone said:

Oh dang, Laghail is challenging. Do I need to read back or can I assume that there have already been 5000 innuendos?

I'm not saying he's being lazy about this challenge, but wordcounter has him at a grand total of 254 words across all posts here, so...

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9 minutes ago, Grumble said:

I'm not saying he's being lazy about this challenge, but wordcounter has him at a grand total of 254 words across all posts here, so...

Word count dis mes chiennes.

Image result for brooklyn 99 gif


 operates chiefly through the medium of moral, 
religious, sympathetic, and antipathetic biases. 


si.Govern- 31 -pj^g i^^^ circumstancc but one, is that 


of government : the government a man lives 
under at the time in question ; or rather that 
under which he has been accustomed most to 
live. This circumstance operates principally 
through the medium of education : the magis- 
trate operating in the character of a tutor upon 
all the members of the state, by the direction 
he gives to their hopes and to their fears. 
Indeed under a solicitous and attentive govern- 
ment, the ordinary preceptor, nay even the 
parent himself, is but a deputy, as it were, to 
the magistrate : whose controlling influence, 
different in this respect from that of the ordinary 
preceptor, dwells with a man to his life's end. 
The effects of the peculiar power of the magi- 
strate are seen more particularly in the in- 
fluence it exerts over the quantum and bias of 
men's moral, religious, sympathetic, and anti- 
pathetic sensibilities. Under a well-constituted, 
or even under a well-administered though ill- 
constituted government, men's moral sensibility 
is commonly stronger, and their moral biases 
more conformable to the dictates of utility : 
their religious sensibility frequently weaker, 
but their religious biases less unconformable 
to the dictates of utility : their sympathetic 


affections more enlarged, directed to the magis- ^"*^-^''; 
trate more than to small parties or to indivi- 
duals, and more to the whole community than 
to either : their antipathetic sensibilities less 
violent, as being more obsequious to the influ- 
ence of well-directed moral biases, and less apt 
to be excited by that of ill-directed religious 
ones : their antipathetic biases more conform- 
able to well-directed moral ones, more apt (in 
proportion) to be grounded on enlarged and 
sympathetic than on narrow and self-regarding 
affections, and accordingly, upon the whole, 
more conformable to the dictates of utility. 


32. The last circumstance is that of religious 32. Reiu 
profession : the religious profession a man is of : fession. 
the religious fraternity of which he is a mem- 
ber. This circumstance operates principally 
through the medium of religious sensibility and 
religious biases. It operates, iiowever, as an 
indication more or less conclusive, with respect 
to several other circumstances. With respect 
to some, scarcely but through the medium of 
the two just mentioned : this is the case with 
regard to the quantum and bias of a man's 
moral, sympathetic, and antipathetic sensibi- 
lity: perhaps in some cases with regard to quan- 
tity and quality of knowledge, strength of in- 
tellectual powers, and l^ent of inclination. With 
respect to others, it may operate iumiediatcly 


v"^^ ^[- of itself : this seems to be the case with regard 
to a man's habitual occupations, pecuniary cir- 
cumstances, and connexions in the way of sym- 
pathy and antipathy. A man who pays very 
little inward regard to the dictates of the re- 
ligion which he finds it necessary to profess, 
may find it difficult to avoid joining in the cere- 
monies of it, and bearing a part in the pecu- 
niary burthens it imposes.* By the force of 
habit and example he may even be led to en- 
tertain a partiality for persons of the same pro- 
fession, and a proportionable antipathy against 
those of a rival one. In particular, the anti- 
pathy against persons of different persuasions 
is one of the last points of religion which men 
part with. Lastly, it is obvious, that the re- 
ligious profession a man is of cannot but have a 
considerable influence on his education. But, 
considering the import of the term education, 
to say this is perhaps no more than saying in 
other words what has been said already. 

* The ways in which a religion may lessen a man's means, 
or augment his wants, are various. Sometimes it will pre- 
vent him from making a profit of his money : sometimes 
from setting his hand to labour. Sometimes it will oblige 
him to buy dearer food instead of cheaper : sometimes to 
purchase useless labour : sometimes to pay men for not 
labouring : sometimes to purchase trinkets, on which ima- 
gination alone has set a value : sometimes to purchase ex- 
emptions from punishment, or titles to felicity in the world 
to come. 


xLiii. ^^!!l^li 

These circumstances, all or many of them, Use of the 
will need to be attended to as often as upon observa-" 

, ^ lions. 

any occasion any account is taken oi any quan- 
tity of pain or pleasure, as resulting from any 
cause. Has any person sustained an injury? 
they will need to be considered in estimating 
the mischief of the offence. Is satisfaction to 
be made to him ? they will need to be attended 
to in adjusting the quantum of that satisfaction. 
Is the injurer to be punished ? they will need 
to be attended to in estimating the force of the 
impression that will be made on him by any 
given punishment. 


It is to be observed, that though they seem How far 
all of them, on some account or other, to merit a stances'iu' 
place in the catalogue, they are not all of equal ca.rbe''" 
use in practice. Different articles among them Iteming** 
are applicable to different exciting causes. Of 
those that may influence the effect of the same 
exciting cause, some apply indiscriminately to 
whole classes of persons together ; being ap- 
plicable to ail, without any remarkable diffe- 
rence in degree : these may be directly and 
pretty fully provided for by the legislator. 
This is the case, for instance, with the primary 
circumstances of bodily imperfection, and in- 
sanity : with the secondary circumstance of sex : 
perhaps with that of age : at any rate with those 


^"-^^■^l of rank, of climate, of lineage, and of religious 
profession. Others, however they may apply 
to whole classes of persons, yet in their appli- 
cation to different individuals are susceptible 
of perhaps an indefinite variety of degrees. 
These cannot be fully provided for by the legis- 
lator ; but, as the existence of them, in every 
sort of case, is capable of being ascertained, 
and the degree in which they take place is 
capable of being measured, provision may be 
made for them by the judge, or other executive 
magistrate, to whom the several individuals that 
happen to be concerned may be made known. 
This is the case, l.With the circumstance of 
health. 2. In some sort with that of strength. 
3. Scarcely with that of hardiness : still less 
with those of quantity and quality of know- 
ledge, strength of intellectual powers, firmness 
or steadiness of mind; except in as far as a 
man's condition, in respect of those circum- 
stances, may be indicated by the secondary 
circumstances of sex, age, or rank : hardly with 
that of bent of inclination, except in as far as 
that latent circumstance is indicated by the 
more manifest one of habitual occupations : 
hardly with that of a man's moral sensibility or 
biases, except in as far as they may be indicated 
by his sex, age, rank, and education : not at all 
with his religious sensibility and religious biases, 
except in as far as they may be indicated by the 


religious profession he belongs to : not at all chap. vi. 
with the quantity or quality of his sympathetic 
or antipathetic sensibilities, except in as far as 
they may be presumed from his sex, age, rank, 
education, lineage, or religious profession. It 
is the case, however, with his habitual occupa- 
tions, with his pecuniary circumstances, and 
with his connexions in the way of sympathy. 
Of others, again, either the existence cannot 
be ascertained, or the degree cannot be mea- 
sured. These, therefore, cannot be taken into 
account, either by the legislator or the execu- 
tive magistrate. Accordingly, they would have 
no claim to be taken notice of, were it not for 
those secondary circumstances by which they 
are indicated, and whose influence could not 
well be understood without them. What these 
are has been already mentioned. 


It has already been observed, that difl'erent '^" ^\^^^ 

J ' exciting 

articles in this list of circumstances apply to ^^^^^^^ 

i^ I J there is 

different excitins: causes : the circumstance of "'"^^ "<^*^*" 

^ sion to ap- 

bodily strength, for instance, has scarcely any p'j *^^^'"- 
influence of itself (whatever it may have in a 
roundabout way, and by accident) on the effect 
of an incident which should increase or diminish 
the quantum of a man's property. It remains 
to be considered, what the exciting causes are 
with which the legislator has to do. These 
may, by some accident or other, be any what- 


Chap. VI. goever : but those with which he has princi- 
pally to do, are those of the painful or afflictive 
kind. With pleasurable ones he has little to 
do, except now and then by accident: the 
reasons of which may be easily enough per- 
ceived, at the same tinie that it would take 
up too much room to unfold them here. The 
exciting causes with which he has principally 
to do, are, on the one hand, the mischievous 
acts, which it his business to prevent ; on the 
other hand, the punishments, by the terror of 
which it is his endeavour to prevent them. 
Now of these two sets of exciting causes, the 
latter only is of his production : being produced 
partly by his own special appointment, partly 
in conformity to his general appointment, by 
the special appointment of the judge. For the 
legislator, therefore, as well as for the judge, 
it is necessary (if they would know what it is 
they are doing when they are appointing 
punishment) to have an eye to all these cir- 
cumstances. For the legislator, lest, meaning 
to apply a certain quantity of punishment to 
all persons who shall put themselves in a given 
predicament, he should unawares apply to 
some of those persons much more or much 
less than he himself intended : for the judge, 
lest, in applying to a particular person a par- 
ticular measure of punishment, he should apply 
much more or much less than was intended, 


perhaps by himself, and at any rate by the chap.vi. 
legislator. They ought each of them, therefore, 
to have before him, on the one hand, a list of 
the several circumstances by which sensibility 
may be influenced ; on the other hand, a list 
of the several species an'd degrees of punishment 
which they purpose to make use of: and then, 
by making a comparison between the two, to 
form a detailed estimate of the influence of each 
of the circumstances in question, upon the 
efl'ect of each species and degree of punishment. 
There are two plans or orders of distribution, 
either of which might be pursued in the drawing 
up this estimate. The one is to make the name 
of the circumstance take the lead, and under 
it to represent the different influences it exerts 
over the effects of the several modes of punish- 
ment : the other is to make the name of the 
punishment take the lead, and under it to 
represent the diff'erent influences which are 
exerted over the eff'ects of it by the several 
circumstances above mentioned. Now of these 
two sorts of objects, the punishment is that to 
which the intention of the legislator is directed 
in the first instance. This is of his own crea- 
tion, and will be whatsoever he thinks fit to 
make it : tlic influencing circumstance exists 
independently of him, and is what it is whether 
fie will or no. What he has occasion to do is 
to establish a certain species and degree of 

VOL. I. I 


cw^ punishment : and it is only with reference to 
that punishment that he has occasion to make 
any inquiry concerning any of the circum- 
stances here in question. The latter of the 
two plans therefore is that which appears by 
far the most useful and commodious. But 
neither upon the one nor the other plan can 
any such estimate be delivered here.* 


Analytical Qf thc scvcral circumstanccs contained in 

view of the 

circum- this cataloQfue, it may be of use to give some 

stances in- o ' j o 

fluencing goft of aualvtic vicw ; in order that it may be 

sensibility. -^ 

the more easily discovered if any which ought 
to have been inserted are omitted; and that, 
with regard to those which are inserted, it may 
be seen how they differ and agree. 

* This is far from being' a visionary proposal, not reducible 
to practice. I speak from experience, having actually drawn 
up such an estimate, though upon the least commodious of 
the two plans, and before the several circumstances in ques- 
tion had been reduced to the precise number and order in 
which they are here enumerated. This is a part of the 
matter destined for another work. See ch. xiii. [Cases 
unmeet] par ^. Note. There are some of these circumstances 
that bestow particular denominations on the persons they 
relate to : thus, from the circumstance of bodily imperfec- 
tions, persons are denominated deaf, dumb, blind, and so 
forth : from the circumstance of insanity, idiots, and maniacs : 
from the circumstance of age, infants : for all which classes 
of persons particular provision is made in the Code. See B. I. 
tit. [Exem])tions.] Persons thus distinguished will form so 
many articles in the caialogxis personanim, prmlegiatarum-. 
See Appendix, tit. [Composition.] 


In the first place, they may be distinguished ^!!^^- 
into primary and secondary: those may be 
termed primary, which operate immediately of 
themselves : those secondary, which operate 
not but by the medium of the former. To this 
latter head belong the circumstances of sex, 
age, station in life, education, climate, lineage, 
government, and religious profession : the rest 
are primary. These again are either connate 
or adventitious: those which are connate, are 
radical frame of body and radical frame of 
mind. Those which are adventitious, are either 
personaly or exterior. The personal, again, con- 
cern either a man's dispositions, or his actions. 
Those which concern his dispositions, concern 
either his body or his 7nmd. Those which con- 
cern his body are health, strength, hardiness, 
and bodily imperfection. Those which concern 
his mind, again, concern either his understanding 
or his affections. To the former head belong 
the circumstances of quantity and quality of 
knowledge, strength of understanding, and in- 
sanity. To the latter belong the circumstances 
of firmness of mind, steadiness, bent of incli- 
nation, moral sensibility, moral biases, religious 
sensibility, religious biases, sympathetic sensi- 
bility, sympathetic biases, antipathetic sensi- 
bility, and antipathetic biases. Those which 
regard his actions, are his habitual occupations. 
Those which are exterior to him, regard either 

I 2 


9^*^- ^^; the things or the pei^sons which he is concerned 
with ; under the former head come his pecuniary 
circumstances ;* under the latter, his con- 
nexions in the way of sympathy and antipathy. 

Analytical * As to a man's pecuniary circumstances, the causes on 

^ '^"^ of the ^^jpj^ those circumstances depend, do not come all of them 

constitu- ' 

ent articles under the same class. The absolute quantum of a man's 

p" *uulary property does indeed come under the same class with his 

circuiu- pecuniary circumstances in general : so does the profit he 


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2 hours ago, Laghail said:
  • Write 100 words or more, every weekday

Got it on friday. Also on Caturday. 


Heyyyy... You just told us Caturday is a fictional day. You can't fool us.


But I approve of challenges that have cartoons demonstrating the absurdity of utilitarianism. Unless you posted it as a cartoon explaining the merits of utilitarianism, in which case, stop eyeing our kidneys, and give virtue ethics a second chance. It's what a wise person would do. Ask me how I know. 

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15 hours ago, Harriet said:

But I approve of challenges that have cartoons demonstrating the absurdity of utilitarianism. Unless you posted it as a cartoon explaining the merits of utilitarianism, in which case, stop eyeing our kidneys, and give virtue ethics a second chance. It's what a wise person would do. Ask me how I know. 

Utilitarianism fails to pass the test of utilitarian good, the irony hurts. What's your experience with virtue ethics? Aside from you know, not being a utilitarian monster.


  • MFP on da daily


  • Sleep 6.5 or more hours, Sunday night through Thursday night

7 is my golden number and I nailed it. Which is important because below.

  • Write 100 words or more, every weekday

So yesterday I tried to read Robert Bly's "Iron John" and the whole thing broke my brain for a little bit. A transcript of me yelling in my car follows.


Godfucking damnit, I hate Carl Jung.

But wait Laghail, you love comparative mythology, and you have a particular soft spot for monomyth / mythopoetic literary criticism and for Harner-style self-mediated Jungian therapy. 

But godfucking damnit, I hate gender essentialism

Well duh dipshit, you're a good person, and good people recognize that life is sliiightly more complex than your genitals decide your destiny; but why the non-sequitor?

But godfucking damnit, gender essentialism underpins most of Jungian analysis 

That seems like a basic baby/bathwater problem, surely you can dismiss archetypes around gender roles and still value other contributions from Jungian analysis, or even hang on to the gender roles, and recognize that people of any sex can chose to wear those gender roles, or not? 

But godfucking damnit, Jungian analysis is useful to the degree that it's used as a universal mythic analysis, so that your dreams about a hairy man in a pond can be reliably translated as your need to break away from your parent-mediated childhood identity and discover the wild and moist (not making this up) deep masculinity within you, provided of course that you're born with a penis. If you're born with a vagina, there's lots to be said about Ophelia and falling down a wet well in order to land on the clouds to make a bed shake with an old lady who will then force your mom to do chores (also not making this up). But mostly the whole concept of a meaningful a-cultural / pan-human interpretive rubric based on Germanic folktales, it's wildly racist, homophobic, imperialist and just plain inaccurate. Gender essentialism is just the shit frosting on the turd sandwich.

But this criticism of Jung has been here the whole time, and lots of people still benefit from the idea that one can read a body of folk tales and make meaningful psychological inferences by mapping a patient's dreams and fantasy against their background body of childhood literature. Does life imitate art? 

Godfucking damnit, are you accusing me of looking for cultural absolutes before, and then when I over-applied Jungian analysis in a misguided attempt to solve for Nietzsche's dead Yahweh problem, and the rapid pace of cultural evolution seems to have killed Jung in the very same way that industrialization killed Yahweh? 

Yup. But moreover, you're possibly over-applying to tool of deconstructive literary analysis. While Jung may have been a man of his time (racist, imperialist, and sexist as all hell), discarding the work of a brilliant man because he's defective, that sets you up to constantly be smashing heroes as you discover their human flaws, ultimately leaving you in a never ending cycle of rejecting human ideas because you discover they're human.

But isn't the point of knowing god (divinity for non-abrahamic people) to connect with extra-human ideas? How the fuck are you supposed to connect with transcendent essence in the writings of a woman hating moron who thinks that the human experience in 17th century Thuringia and in 1st century Palestine is roughly the same?

Wasn't this covered in the briefing on "reading human ideas"?? It's like you and other idealist read human writing and then get pissy when it, sure enough, ends up being human? Why do you expect to find the transcendent in human writing? 

Because we have before. Or I have, or we have. This dialogue is kinda vacillating between representative of the liberal arts or Laghail personally.

I know, right?

But seriously, I/we have before. But it breaks our/my mind because it's almost never the same experience of the transcendent twice. Like we'll encounter it in its ineffable otherness (like porn, we know it when we see it), but sometimes it's gone when we look there twice. We miss the transcendent, very badly.

You should see someone about that.

Fuck you

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