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CourtnieMarie

CM packs up her troubles

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47 minutes ago, CourtnieMarie said:

 

going to a completely separate topic, i forgot to mention something somewhat applicable that has been dogging me for a few days! on sunday, friend 1 said to friend 2: "you look skinny!" and friend 2 said "thanks!" it sent me down a bit of a spiral thinking, well i have gained lots of weight does that make me less-than friend 2? i know logically it doesn't. but it's something that nags at me and i'm sure i'm not the only one who overhears this type of comment and maybe feels poorly about themselves in the aftermath. i struggled with saying something because i have also accepted the same type of comments as compliments when i lost a bunch of weight long ago. so do i have the right to take that joy away from friend 2? how did me accepting those comments years ago affect those around me at the time? yeesh.

 

This reminded me of a conversation that took place on the 4th of July of last year... you know, that time of year when you meet family members you haven't seen in a while. I'd put it out of my mind, because it's kind of ridiculous, but it's also a good illustration of how people in general can be so fixated on weight loss and being "skinny", that they lose sight of everything else, including being strong or being healthy. Or even worse, genuinely believe that to be fit and healthy is the same thing as being "skinny".

 

While half the family was in the kitchen preparing various side dishes and marinades, and the rest of us were hiding in the family room or in the backyard with our drinks, the following conversation took place:

 

Well-meaning But Confused Family Member: You look so slim! Did you lose weight? 

Me: Thanks, but I haven't actually lost weight. I've lost inches, but thanks to a lot of weight lifting I've actually put on a few pound of muscle.

WBCFM: If you've gained weight you need to change your diet.

Me: I'm not really on a diet right now. And since I've gone down two sizes in jeans, and gotten stronger, I think my eating habits are probably pretty good. (said while sipping a dark and delicious beer ;)

WBCFM: But that can't be true if you're not losing weight!

Me, losing patience: You just said I look slimmer, and I told you I'm down two jeans sizes. Why would you say I need to lose weight?

WBCFM, slowly and carefully: Because if you've gained weight your diet isn't working. You need to change your diet.

Me: ... 

Me: I think I'm going to go see if they need help in the kitchen.

 

Obviously this is paraphrased since I don't remember the exact words used, but I like to think back to this conversation now and then, whenever I hear about situations like the one you just described. Obviously Friend A meant their observation as a compliment, but is it really a good thing to look skinny? Is it kind and complimentary to tell someone that they do? Did Friend B really appreciate that comment, or were they just polite when they said thanks, while inwardly they were crying that their months of trying to build muscles in their arms clearly haven't led anywhere since they still look skinny?

 

Compliments on appearance are shallow and from a certain perspective they are also lazy. I think a lot of people default to "skinny" or "cute" when they give compliments because they don't know how to tell someone they look really good today, without becoming awkward or creepy.

 

2 hours ago, Harriet said:

It's hard... thinness has social currency as long as people collectively believe it does. Just like paper money has value as long as we keep acting as though it does. But if we choose a different path we have to forgo the praise and other rewards of thinness.

 

What rewards?

 

It is a genuine question. For someone without the genetic predisposition for being skinny, becoming so is nearly impossible, and the efforts often involve a lot of sacrifice and emotional hardship. Aside from the dubious reward of somehow having those efforts validated by shallow, self-interested people who give zero shits about our well-being, what is it about being skinny that makes it such an important goal to attain?

 

I'm not looking for any particular person to give me an answer. I simply think that if the entire world would stop for a moment and ponder that question in a genuine effort to find an answer, there'd be a lot less destroyed self-esteem to go around.

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1st thing. I think every family has a WBCFM. I experienced this every single family event since I dropped all my weight a year ago.

2nd thing. You said Dark AND Delicious beer. That is redundant as those two things are the same.

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10 minutes ago, Grumble said:

 

2nd thing. You said Dark AND Delicious beer. That is redundant as those two things are the same.

 

Not really. Guinness proves me right on this one.

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19 minutes ago, scalyfreak said:

 

Well-meaning But Confused Family Member: You look so slim! Did you lose weight? 

Me: Thanks, but I haven't actually lost weight. I've lost inches, but thanks to a lot of weight lifting I've actually put on a few pound of muscle.

WBCFM: If you've gained weight you need to change your diet.

Me: I'm not really on a diet right now. And since I've gone down two sizes in jeans, and gotten stronger, I think my eating habits are probably pretty good. (said while sipping a dark and delicious beer ;)

WBCFM: But that can't be true if you're not losing weight!

Me, losing patience: You just said I look slimmer, and I told you I'm down two jeans sizes. Why would you say I need to lose weight?

WBCFM, slowly and carefully: Because if you've gained weight your diet isn't working. You need to change your diet.

Me: ... 

Me: I think I'm going to go see if they need help in the kitchen.

 


I think this just spiked my blood pressure from vicarious frustration.
 

19 minutes ago, scalyfreak said:

What rewards?


I'm talking purely about social rewards-- like approval, respect, sexual interest--which we also get from certain people for spending time and money on makeup and hair, wearing painful shoes, conforming to gendered expectations... I'm not saying the rewards are worth it. Just that when you conform, there will be some social approval. And when you don't, there is sometimes punishment. Actually I do feel the rewards are really, vastly insufficient for the inconvenience and indignity of conforming to unfair, harmful expectations. But for people who are used to receiving them (maybe because they were effortlessly thin when younger, or bought into the fantasy and tried really hard before changing their minds), the withdrawal of approval and fear of punishment can be hard to bear. I'm sure there are absolutely loads of people who don't care about thinness and instead judge people by character, behaviour, achievements etc. But they don't continuously and loudly broadcast their requirements to us through film, advertisements, tv, magazines... 

...the only innate value I can think of for being thin is that it probably makes jogging less of an ordeal. Ugh. Jogging while heavy is the worst. But a bit of lemon and orange biscotti dipped in white chocolate would probably make up the balance of utility.

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3 minutes ago, scalyfreak said:

 

Not really. Guinness proves me right on this one.

I refuse to acknowledge American Guinness and you can't make me. I also refuse to acknowledge any dark beer under 7.2 ABV.

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15 hours ago, scalyfreak said:

 

This reminded me of a conversation that took place on the 4th of July of last year... you know, that time of year when you meet family members you haven't seen in a while. I'd put it out of my mind, because it's kind of ridiculous, but it's also a good illustration of how people in general can be so fixated on weight loss and being "skinny", that they lose sight of everything else, including being strong or being healthy. Or even worse, genuinely believe that to be fit and healthy is the same thing as being "skinny".

:rolleyes: we have been so bombarded and blinded with the idea that skinny = better

i think bodies are meant to all look different!

 

15 hours ago, scalyfreak said:

Obviously this is paraphrased since I don't remember the exact words used, but I like to think back to this conversation now and then, whenever I hear about situations like the one you just described. Obviously Friend A meant their observation as a compliment, but is it really a good thing to look skinny? Is it kind and complimentary to tell someone that they do? Did Friend B really appreciate that comment, or were they just polite when they said thanks, while inwardly they were crying that their months of trying to build muscles in their arms clearly haven't led anywhere since they still look skinny?

 

Compliments on appearance are shallow and from a certain perspective they are also lazy. I think a lot of people default to "skinny" or "cute" when they give compliments because they don't know how to tell someone they look really good today, without becoming awkward or creepy.

Unfortunately I know Friend 2/B loved the comment. she has been fighting with her body for a long time and believes she won't find a partner until her body changes :( 

 

100% yes on the compliments on appearance. most of the time (beside a cool haircut or makeup or outfit) your body shape and eye color and ear size is not something you have any control over. 

 

15 hours ago, scalyfreak said:

 

What rewards?

 

It is a genuine question. For someone without the genetic predisposition for being skinny, becoming so is nearly impossible, and the efforts often involve a lot of sacrifice and emotional hardship. Aside from the dubious reward of somehow having those efforts validated by shallow, self-interested people who give zero shits about our well-being, what is it about being skinny that makes it such an important goal to attain?

 

15 hours ago, Harriet said:

I'm talking purely about social rewards-- like approval, respect, sexual interest--which we also get from certain people for spending time and money on makeup and hair, wearing painful shoes, conforming to gendered expectations... I'm not saying the rewards are worth it. Just that when you conform, there will be some social approval. And when you don't, there is sometimes punishment.

 

I agree with harriet! maybe except for sexual interest. there are plenty of people out there who are sexually interested in fat bodies even if they pretend not to be in order to "conform" as you say! unfortunately people in marginalized bodies are treated very differently in our culture and there are definitely rewards for those who fulfill some or all of the following: white; able-bodied; straight sized; gender conforming... idk i'm sure there are more. but you're absolutely right, we have to get away from the idea that we need validation from these strangers who 100% are not thinking about our health (no matter how often they say that).

 

15 hours ago, Harriet said:

Actually I do feel the rewards are really, vastly insufficient for the inconvenience and indignity of conforming to unfair, harmful expectations. But for people who are used to receiving them (maybe because they were effortlessly thin when younger, or bought into the fantasy and tried really hard before changing their minds), the withdrawal of approval and fear of punishment can be hard to bear. I'm sure there are absolutely loads of people who don't care about thinness and instead judge people by character, behaviour, achievements etc. But they don't continuously and loudly broadcast their requirements to us through film, advertisements, tv, magazines... 

...the only innate value I can think of for being thin is that it probably makes jogging less of an ordeal. Ugh. Jogging while heavy is the worst. But a bit of lemon and orange biscotti dipped in white chocolate would probably make up the balance of utility.

i stand for more biscotti and marginalized bodies in the media :D 

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I think appearance compliments and skinnymania are tricky to navigate.

 

We all know (even if we sometimes still struggle with it) that there isn't any inherent value in being skinny (or in any body shape, I'd say but let's narrow the scope for now). But that's not what we hear or what we see or what the cultural river most of us swim in tells us. I don't think we can begrudge the people who haven't been able to leave that game behind them. As long as, like Harriet said, they are subscribing to notion that it means something to look a certain way -- as long as they are playing by the game's rules -- then it DOES mean something to look a certain way.

 

We're outside the game now, but we still know the rules and we still know that some people take them really seriously. I think we can play the role of discouraging diet policing, praising other accomplishments and new habits and hobbies, maybe even publicly discussing our own approach to these things -- but they can't be in direct response to an exchange like that! We're just quiet saboteurs of the game. :ph34r:

 

 

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18 hours ago, Harriet said:


...the only innate value I can think of for being thin is that it probably makes jogging less of an ordeal. Ugh. Jogging while heavy is the worst. But a bit of lemon and orange biscotti dipped in white chocolate would probably make up the balance of utility.

 

Doing a pull-up would probably be easier for me if I lose weight. My deadlift goal of lifting my body weight will happen sooner if my body weighs less. Problem is, losing weight is a painful chore and has never really worked for me in the past, at least not as long as I make that one of my goals, so even though I know I could do it, I don't particularly want to. Like you said, the reward is vastly insufficient for the effort it would take. 

 

18 hours ago, Grumble said:

I refuse to acknowledge American Guinness and you can't make me. I also refuse to acknowledge any dark beer under 7.2 ABV.

 

Okay, fair enough. With those qualifiers my earlier statement was redundant.

 

2 hours ago, CourtnieMarie said:

 

100% yes on the compliments on appearance. most of the time (beside a cool haircut or makeup or outfit) your body shape and eye color and ear size is not something you have any control over. 

 

We should all start responding to compliments about appearance with "thank you! I worked really hard to make sure I got the DNA just right" :P 

 

1 hour ago, raptron said:

 

We're outside the game now, but we still know the rules and we still know that some people take them really seriously. I think we can play the role of discouraging diet policing, praising other accomplishments and new habits and hobbies, maybe even publicly discussing our own approach to these things -- but they can't be in direct response to an exchange like that! We're just quiet saboteurs of the game. :ph34r:

 

As I have learned since that particular "discussion", if we try to do it in a direct response to an exchange like that, the person becomes incredibly uncomfortable and no longer feels safe giving compliments about being skinny. At least not to me. Did she realize there is no inherent value in being skinny? I have no idea. I do know she no longer bothers me about it. :) 

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14 minutes ago, scalyfreak said:

Did she realize there is no inherent value in being skinny? I have no idea. I do know she no longer bothers me about it. :) 

It really frustrates me that we live in a world where the less space a woman takes up, the higher her perceived worth is. Bleh

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3 hours ago, raptron said:

I think appearance compliments and skinnymania are tricky to navigate.

 

We all know (even if we sometimes still struggle with it) that there isn't any inherent value in being skinny (or in any body shape, I'd say but let's narrow the scope for now). But that's not what we hear or what we see or what the cultural river most of us swim in tells us. I don't think we can begrudge the people who haven't been able to leave that game behind them. As long as, like Harriet said, they are subscribing to notion that it means something to look a certain way -- as long as they are playing by the game's rules -- then it DOES mean something to look a certain way.

 

We're outside the game now, but we still know the rules and we still know that some people take them really seriously. I think we can play the role of discouraging diet policing, praising other accomplishments and new habits and hobbies, maybe even publicly discussing our own approach to these things -- but they can't be in direct response to an exchange like that! We're just quiet saboteurs of the game. :ph34r:

yep, and that's why I ended up not saying anything. we can't hold our friends accountable because the Diet River overflowed. especially as one who has drowned in it before! subtle comments or suggestions and living by example :encouragement:

 

I will say that there is an argument for folx who can become triggered by these comments that they have a right to (and should) tell their friends how it makes them feel and ask them not to continue. I, fortunately, have Spouse and a team of nerds to discuss these things with and get my head in a better place :)  thanks nerds!

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Week 0 – Thursday

 

uh oh I keep forgetting to do my bridges and clamshells. hopefully will remember tonight. last night I totally meant to fold laundry as well. I made dinner and watched Umbrella Academy.

 

we did lock in a lawyer, not my first choice but oh well. we also heard back from negotiations on credit this morning and we got less than we asked but a fair amount. so now the attorneys have the P&S to work on and then we sign it and pay them all the monies!

 

Fitness: 1/1 runs, 0/1 weights, 0/1 bridges & clamshells, 16/30 yoga

Sleep: 0/1 midnight cutoff, 0/1 drinking days, current avg 7h39m

 

weekend plan

F: PM yoga

S: AM yoga; groceries; brother’s bday lunch; visit dad; game night

S: AM weights; meal prep; GOT

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2 hours ago, CourtnieMarie said:

yep, and that's why I ended up not saying anything. we can't hold our friends accountable because the Diet River overflowed. especially as one who has drowned in it before! subtle comments or suggestions and living by example :encouragement:

 

I will say that there is an argument for folx who can become triggered by these comments that they have a right to (and should) tell their friends how it makes them feel and ask them not to continue. I, fortunately, have Spouse and a team of nerds to discuss these things with and get my head in a better place :)  thanks nerds!

 

I love being able to discuss this with all the clever, wise people here. If dieting and thinness culture were a devil's snare plant trying to prevent my escape, these forums would be the sunlight that will eventually overcome it.

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4 hours ago, CourtnieMarie said:

yep, and that's why I ended up not saying anything. we can't hold our friends accountable because the Diet River overflowed. especially as one who has drowned in it before! subtle comments or suggestions and living by example :encouragement:

 

With some few but glaring exceptions, for situations when our emotional well-being is jeopardized by the comments in question. (A certain lady at my gym comes to mind ;) ). Basically, what you said in the part of your post I didn't quote :) 

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Week 0 – Friday

 

slept in and had a productive day at work. did some yoga after work (which included bridges and clamshells) and got chipotle for dinner. we went to bed early and caught up on some sleep for once!

 

Week 0 – Saturday

 

since we had gone to bed so early we got up with enough time to go to the gym before grocery shopping – which was madness the day before easter. oops.

 

this was my first time trying out a full body type workout. it went pretty well but was definitely exhausted by the time it came to DLs. curls were easy enough to superset into squats, then I used the pulldowns as a “leg break” before deadlifts. maybe I’ll swap between doing deadlifts first and squats first.

 

squat

95x5

100x5

105x5

110x5

115x5

 

ez bar curls

40x5

50x5x4

 

underhand cable pulldowns

85x5

100x5

105x5x3

 

DLs

135x5

140x5x2

 

we went to my moms for my brother’s birthday lunch, then to visit my dad, then to a friends for a couple games. we were home by 11pm but stayed up to watch an episode of umbrella academy. Still clocked in 9 hrs sleep since Sunday we didn’t have to be up for anything!

 

Veggies: kohlrabi; garden salad

 

Week 0 – Sunday

 

really nice sunday filled with two loads of laundry, meal prepped bfasts and lunches (a tikka masala in the pressure cooker. finally succeeded without getting the burn notice but overcooked the rice. trial and error my friends). we ate some of that before heading to a friends for GOT. Was home and in bed asleep before midnight!

 

Veggies: kale

 

week 0 scores!

Fitness: 1/1 runs, 1/1 weights, 1/1 bridges & clamshells, 23/30 yoga

Sleep: 1/1 midnight cutoff, 1/1 drinking days, current avg 7h54m

Food: 3/3 weekend vegetables

 

I did have a couple beers at work Friday and 2 beers yesterday watching GOT but I’m not counting those. they did not keep me from wanting to go to bed at a reasonable hour which is the point :) 

 

this week might be crazy with P&S happening but my goal is to survive that. hoping we can delay it until tomorrow since we haven't received it yet for review. getting all the down payment from four persons into one bank so we can present the down payment will be today's mission.

giphy.gif

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I prefer squats first because I feel like they warm up the hips for deadlifts, but that's just my personal preference, and my hips are wonky. 

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21 minutes ago, JessFit said:

I prefer squats first because I feel like they warm up the hips for deadlifts, but that's just my personal preference, and my hips are wonky. 

good point, i'm actually good to go on DLs with a few dynamic stretches as warmups! and i love them so much so it might be more fun to give them my freshness every other workout :lol:

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On 4/19/2019 at 1:38 PM, CourtnieMarie said:

I will say that there is an argument for folx who can become triggered by these comments that they have a right to (and should) tell their friends how it makes them feel and ask them not to continue.

100%, definitely! Didn't mean to gloss over that component. <3 

 

1 hour ago, CourtnieMarie said:

week 0 scores!

Fitness: 1/1 runs, 1/1 weights, 1/1 bridges & clamshells, 23/30 yoga

Sleep: 1/1 midnight cutoff, 1/1 drinking days, current avg 7h54m

Food: 3/3 weekend vegetables

 

I did have a couple beers at work Friday and 2 beers yesterday watching GOT but I’m not counting those. they did not keep me from wanting to go to bed at a reasonable hour which is the point :) 

Nice zero week, especially with what you've got going on! 

 

1 hour ago, CourtnieMarie said:

this week might be crazy with P&S happening but my goal is to survive that. hoping we can delay it until tomorrow since we haven't received it yet for review. getting all the down payment from four persons into one bank so we can present the down payment will be today's mission.

WEEEEEHHHHEWWW. Go go go.

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Looking good! Did you make the spice blend for the tikka yourself, or is there a good brand of curry paste out there? 

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On 4/19/2019 at 8:58 AM, CourtnieMarie said:

:rolleyes: we have been so bombarded and blinded with the idea that skinny = better

 

On 4/19/2019 at 1:38 PM, CourtnieMarie said:

yep, and that's why I ended up not saying anything. we can't hold our friends accountable because the Diet River overflowed. especially as one who has drowned in it before! subtle comments or suggestions and living by example :encouragement:

 

 

That's pretty much where I've landed too. I had a situation awhile back where I hadn't seen a friend in a while and she had lost a ton of weight. I mentioned something as a compliment and it all came out of the flood gate - how difficult her year had been and how terrible the depression was that she couldn't bring herself to eat. From that point on I had a very different perspective on "skinny compliments" and simply don't engage in body judgement one way or another with people. There are times I think people are looking for that validation but the more aware of it I've been, the less that issue has surfaced in what I notice throughout my day so it doesn't really come up anymore.

 

Although I guess it's something I will discuss if it comes up in conversation with both friends and at work, but I don't beat it into people either. For me it's a lot like the negative/positive assignments of foods with mindful eating - not defining good or bad with the way people look, pretty much anywhere, everywhere. After while they effort of it sort of disappeared

 

On 4/19/2019 at 1:58 PM, CourtnieMarie said:

we did lock in a lawyer, not my first choice but oh well. we also heard back from negotiations on credit this morning and we got less than we asked but a fair amount. so now the attorneys have the P&S to work on and then we sign it and pay them all the monies! 

 

 

YUSSS glad to hear things are moving along!!!!! How exciting!

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On 4/19/2019 at 9:00 AM, raptron said:

I think appearance compliments and skinnymania are tricky to navigate.

 

We all know (even if we sometimes still struggle with it) that there isn't any inherent value in being skinny (or in any body shape, I'd say but let's narrow the scope for now). But that's not what we hear or what we see or what the cultural river most of us swim in tells us. I don't think we can begrudge the people who haven't been able to leave that game behind them. As long as, like Harriet said, they are subscribing to notion that it means something to look a certain way -- as long as they are playing by the game's rules -- then it DOES mean something to look a certain way.

 

We're outside the game now, but we still know the rules and we still know that some people take them really seriously. I think we can play the role of discouraging diet policing, praising other accomplishments and new habits and hobbies, maybe even publicly discussing our own approach to these things -- but they can't be in direct response to an exchange like that! We're just quiet saboteurs of the game. :ph34r:

Wise 'tron is wise. I don't have a ton to add to this discussion RE: body image, other than support and encouragement for all nerds at any stage in their relationship with their bodies.

 

On 4/19/2019 at 12:58 PM, CourtnieMarie said:

we did lock in a lawyer, not my first choice but oh well. we also heard back from negotiations on credit this morning and we got less than we asked but a fair amount. so now the attorneys have the P&S to work on and then we sign it and pay them all the monies!

Woohoo for progress on the house front - good luck with everything this week!

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thanks all! your support is helping more than you know <3

 

5 hours ago, Harriet said:

Looking good! Did you make the spice blend for the tikka yourself, or is there a good brand of curry paste out there? 

i actually caved and bought garam masala for the first time. i don't typically like coriander but this was perfectly wonderful. i doubled thise spice blend for 3 pounds of chicken:

  • 1 1/2 tablespoons garam masala
  • 1 teaspoon smoked paprika
  • 1/2 teaspoon ground turmeric
  • 1/2 teaspoon kosher salt
  • 1/4 teaspoon cayenne pepper

i used cream cheese instead of cream since i had some leftover and it came out great! can't decide if/how i'd alter it next time. besides more salt, 1 tsp of kosher salt is not really enough for a giant batch of this.

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Week 1 – Monday

 

slept in and took it slow in the morning. my schedule got moved around a bit and I was able to go home after work instead of visiting my dad. I got in some yoga, prepped some yogurt for snacks today, and cooked up a beef and bok choy stir fry for dinner.

 

we got the draft P&S around 8pm last night and have a call with our lawyer about it in a half hour! Spouse is bringing our money checks to the seller's agent after work today.

tumblr_mkdmjxO5HE1qbacbqo1_400.gif

 

Fitness: 1/2 runs, 1/2 weights, 1/2 bridges & clamshells, 7/30 yoga

Sleep: 1/2 midnight cutoff, 1/2 drinking days, current avg 6h54m

 

the plan.

M: PM yoga

T: AM yoga

W: AM weights; visit dad

T: AM yoga; work book club

F: AM run; visit dad

S: AM yoga; groceries; visit dad

S: meal prep; visit dad’s house; GOT

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