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Mike Wazowski

Mike Wazowski: Settling Back into Routines (or "Routines")

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Sounds like you're on top of the money situation though.

How and why is it a taboo topic in the US? I can see that money is always a funny topic but why would it be unwelcome?

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5 minutes ago, @mu said:

Sounds like you're on top of the money situation though.

How and why is it a taboo topic in the US? I can see that money is always a funny topic but why would it be unwelcome?

Truthfully, not sure on the history, but I know it’s something that’s talked about very discreetly, vaguely, or not at all, at least for the people personally involved in the convo. So for example, with close friends I have far more insight into the details of their sex lives than I do their financial situations (and that’s despite sex also being pretty taboo in the US).

 

But yes, the actual situation is well under control for me, now I just need to get the feelings to follow suit.

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3 minutes ago, Mike Wazowski said:

Truthfully, not sure on the history, but I know it’s something that’s talked about very discreetly, vaguely, or not at all, at least for the people personally involved in the convo. So for example, with close friends I have far more insight into the details of their sex lives than I do their financial situations (and that’s despite sex also being pretty taboo in the US).


Interesting. I got the impression that money is less talked about in Germany (though it could just be people I know) and that Americans are more open about money; complete strangers will tell us about the need for a second job here in California, and apparently a driver asked Mr Harriet repeatedly how much he makes (Mr or should I say Herr Doktor Harriet is VERY uncomfortable talking about it). Americans also seem more likely to buy conspicuously expensive cars, houses and gadgets to signal their worth (similar to Australians in my experience) but in Germany, especially Berlin, I feel like a lot of people would see this as crass and silly. In Berlin in particular, spending too much on visible signs of worth would make you seem "spiessig" or boringly middle class, in contrast to the artistic/intellectual/subversive personas that Berliners like to cultivate. The Berliners I know with a bit more cash do spend it, though, they just carefully spend it on art and furniture and clothing (no obvious brands) that seem intended to show off their exquisite aesthetic tastes rather than their incomes as such. 

Anyway, it sounds like you're thinking about it carefully and working hard to get lots of security, so that's great. 

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I think the notion of money as something we "don't talk about" varies depending on where in the US go, and who you're talking to. We are talking about a country the size of half a continent after all.

 

From my own observations, money conversations happen a lot more frequently in groups where the members believe they are in similar financial situations. College students never think twice about joining in some group venting about how much it sucks to be a poor college student, for example. Similarly, seniors who live on a fixed income with lament that to each other. Single parents who work two jobs to make ends meet, share tips and trick on how to stretch every dollar to the fullest, and so on.

 

Where it becomes taboo is in the workplace. Most companies have strict policies in place that prohibit employees from discussing details about how much money they make. In my workplace, it's because salary as well as hourly wages are determined based on a combination of seniority, past experience, and performance ratings, which means you can have two people in the same role, doing the same job, but one of them makes less money than the other. HR really don't want those two to start comparing notes.

 

Between family and friends, I suspect it's simply a matter of awkwardness. Income discrepancies are mistakenly assumed to be the sort of thing that prevents the formation or sustaining of friendships, which is stupid. It's not the income that cause that kind of problems, it's the spending habits.

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I guess I should've clarified - discussing wealth and investments i.e. how much you've accumulated or how deep in the hole you are is generally more taboo in my experience than talking about income (in some circumstances) or the cost of a purchase (in almost all circumstances).

 

20 hours ago, Harriet said:

Interesting. I got the impression that money is less talked about in Germany (though it could just be people I know) and that Americans are more open about money; complete strangers will tell us about the need for a second job here in California, and apparently a driver asked Mr Harriet repeatedly how much he makes (Mr or should I say Herr Doktor Harriet is VERY uncomfortable talking about it).

Yes - I will say that Americans have no problem talking about incomes, especially commiserating about their incomes feeling insufficient to live on.

 

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Americans also seem more likely to buy conspicuously expensive cars, houses and gadgets to signal their worth (similar to Australians in my experience) but in Germany, especially Berlin, I feel like a lot of people would see this as crass and silly. In Berlin in particular, spending too much on visible signs of worth would make you seem "spiessig" or boringly middle class, in contrast to the artistic/intellectual/subversive personas that Berliners like to cultivate. The Berliners I know with a bit more cash do spend it, though, they just carefully spend it on art and furniture and clothing (no obvious brands) that seem intended to show off their exquisite aesthetic tastes rather than their incomes as such. 

Oh yes, I definitely agree that Americans have no problem with ostentatious consumption either, on average. Talking about how much of that consumption is financed and how that fits into a larger financial picture is much less comfortable for the average American, in my experience. Which is something I do wonder every time I see a Tesla (not the cheap ones) driving around my city.

 

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Anyway, it sounds like you're thinking about it carefully and working hard to get lots of security, so that's great. 

That is the hope for me, at least! Crunching some numbers definitely helps, as does reminding myself that nobody's requiring me to go after super early retirement or attempt to change careers around midlife. Those are just choices, and plenty of people have switched careers without super solid financial footing under them and still survived.

 

20 hours ago, scalyfreak said:

I think the notion of money as something we "don't talk about" varies depending on where in the US go, and who you're talking to. We are talking about a country the size of half a continent after all.

I suppose that's fair - I guess I can only speak for my experience in the Midwest / South, as a white queer millennial who's never ventured below the comfortable part of the middle class (although I had friends who were objectively poor in high school and college).

 

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From my own observations, money conversations happen a lot more frequently in groups where the members believe they are in similar financial situations. College students never think twice about joining in some group venting about how much it sucks to be a poor college student, for example. Similarly, seniors who live on a fixed income with lament that to each other. Single parents who work two jobs to make ends meet, share tips and trick on how to stretch every dollar to the fullest, and so on.

Definitely agree here - I think people can commiserate on incomes and feeling like they don't make enough - but I don't know if many of these conversations go much beyond surface level (although arguably, a lot of Americans struggle to go beyond the surface level on lots of conversations).

 

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Where it becomes taboo is in the workplace. Most companies have strict policies in place that prohibit employees from discussing details about how much money they make. In my workplace, it's because salary as well as hourly wages are determined based on a combination of seniority, past experience, and performance ratings, which means you can have two people in the same role, doing the same job, but one of them makes less money than the other. HR really don't want those two to start comparing notes.

True - although I think a lot of states also make any of those workplace rules 100% unenforceable - according to a local friend who works in HR (I also have some friends whose salaries are a matter of public record because they work for the state - which makes it a little weird in that I can google exactly what they're paid but they can't do the reverse).

 

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Between family and friends, I suspect it's simply a matter of awkwardness. Income discrepancies are mistakenly assumed to be the sort of thing that prevents the formation or sustaining of friendships, which is stupid. It's not the income that cause that kind of problems, it's the spending habits.

Yep, it's definitely more awkward in family and friend situations for my experience too. And maybe not even the spending habits, but the inflexibility to accommodate different levels of means. I have a couple friends in part of a larger friend group who don't make quite as much, but our friends are good about planning some things that require spending very little or nothing at all (like a house party where people volunteer what they'll bring).

 

Week 3, Day 2: I did NOT succeed at my Netflix hiatus like I planned, but I'm ok with it. I was reasonably focused at work (driven in part by a fire drill that's bubbled up all of a sudden) and felt pretty good about what I got done - including repurposing a little notebook I had been carrying around all the time into a little BuJo type thing. I haven't historically succeeded at using them, but I think part of that is I always tried to keep work and personal separate, when the reality is that I don't manage those two parts of my life totally in silos (like, I'll run an errand over lunch or remember something I need to do in my home life while waiting for a work meeting to start) and carrying around two BuJo's plus a dance notebook and a grad school notebook was a LOT. Gonna play with this experiment and see how I do this time around.

 

Last night was dance teaching, which went really well - kiddos seem to be engaging and starting to enjoy their learning process, though I do need to take some time and plan out my summer curriculum for the group because right now I'm just kinda winging it week to week and that's not optimal for their progress or my sanity. Followed it up with a trip to bar trivia, where somehow I've become the sports guy on the team (god help us, because I'm only knowledgeable about sports when judged by gay stereotype standards) and then a trip to another bar afterwards. I was planning on not drinking, but some anonymous patron really insisted on buying our table a round of drinks so I ended up having one (first time a stranger's offered to buy me a drink at a bar - it's a weird adjustment from straight bars haha).

 

Also, today marks the start of my last grad school course - and it's on machine learning in an open-source programming language, so I'm kinda super pumped to get started with it! And will probably be ground down into a sad lump soon enough, but for now, ENTHUSIASM!

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36 minutes ago, Mike Wazowski said:

Yep, it's definitely more awkward in family and friend situations for my experience too. And maybe not even the spending habits, but the inflexibility to accommodate different levels of means. I have a couple friends in part of a larger friend group who don't make quite as much, but our friends are good about planning some things that require spending very little or nothing at all (like a house party where people volunteer what they'll bring).

 

I think what makes talking about spending habits awkward is that they highlight fundamental differences in lifestyle and circumstances, that can be easy to forget because they aren't obvious, and that makes them all the more jarring. Accidentally discovering through casual conversation that the wine you think of as "everyday wine I usually keep at home for when I feel like a glass with dinner" is the exact same bottle that one of your friends thinks of as "the one I save up for and splurge on when it's a special occasion", does get awkward if it happens too often.

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Your plan is aggressive but also smart. One of the friends who came with us to Iceland is in the middle of a work sabbatical. She did what you're doing and had plenty of money to live and travel without an income for awhile. You're doing great! And I hope you don't have to dip too much into your long-term savings. But it's okay if you do :) 

 

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In Sweden money talk is very hush hush and it's especially quite frowned upon to show off your wealth. It's been changing in the past few decades but for a long time it's been a deeply ingrained part of Swedish culture. However people are still nosy, and tax records are public so on a regular basis you get tabloid headlines along the lines of "see how much your neighbours earned this year!". It's creepy AF.

 

Sorry about your dance partner! Fingers crossed for a speedy recovery.

 

Yay for getting out of the moving hole though! :D 

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On 6/12/2019 at 10:38 AM, scalyfreak said:

I think what makes talking about spending habits awkward is that they highlight fundamental differences in lifestyle and circumstances, that can be easy to forget because they aren't obvious, and that makes them all the more jarring. Accidentally discovering through casual conversation that the wine you think of as "everyday wine I usually keep at home for when I feel like a glass with dinner" is the exact same bottle that one of your friends thinks of as "the one I save up for and splurge on when it's a special occasion", does get awkward if it happens too often.

Oh true - I'm admittedly talking from a place of deep socioeconomic privilege here, but I often forget that spending usually correlates with income because I've lived well below my (admittedly quite high) means most of my adult life (I was burning through money pretty fast for a bit right out of school - my spending only decreased a bit but my earnings have gone up quite substantially since then).

 

22 hours ago, CourtnieMarie said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Your plan is aggressive but also smart. One of the friends who came with us to Iceland is in the middle of a work sabbatical. She did what you're doing and had plenty of money to live and travel without an income for awhile. You're doing great! And I hope you don't have to dip too much into your long-term savings. But it's okay if you do :) 

 

Spoiler

Thanks - and it's cool to know that there are tons of people out there who have followed a similar path, even if most of us are pretty mute about it unless specifically asked. And true, it's ok if I do have to dip into savings - just confirmed with a calculator that it has "no material impact" on my ability to retire at about 40 even if I pay a pretty sizable amount for a new car (yes, I'm that much of a nerd that I turn to a calculator immediately).

 

11 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

In Sweden money talk is very hush hush and it's especially quite frowned upon to show off your wealth. It's been changing in the past few decades but for a long time it's been a deeply ingrained part of Swedish culture. However people are still nosy, and tax records are public so on a regular basis you get tabloid headlines along the lines of "see how much your neighbours earned this year!". It's creepy AF.

Oh weird and creepy....that would save a lot of twitter sparring over our president's tax returns though! :P

 

Also, I'm SHOCKED that Sweden is hush hush about money and frowns on ostentatious spending. :P

 

11 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Sorry about your dance partner! Fingers crossed for a speedy recovery.

Fingers crossed indeed - if nothing else, this injury's worst prognosis isn't too bad; might take a while but almost all athletes make a full recovery, and it's a nice wakeup call that we need to be really serious about our injury prevention work.

 

11 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Yay for getting out of the moving hole though! :D 

:D yay indeed! Just a couple big items to move out of the living room and I'll have my Pilates / stretching / parallettes corner ready to use. :)

 

Week 3, Day 3: No Netflix for this guy last night! Did pilates and ankle rehab in the morning, although no prayer stuff, and got in to work at an OK-ish hour (not as early as I'd like). Work was pretty productive but I still beat myself up because I hold myself to a bar that only a very well-programmed android could meet (putting out work at my peak mental output for the length of an entire work day, every day). I did catch this when journaling and reflecting upon the day, so I didn't beat myself up too badly.

 

Then got to dance teaching, where I wrapped up a weeklong unit going DEEP on foot articulation in forward and back walks for the newbies, chatted with my dance partner (and co-teacher!) about applying his background as a professional teacher to make my dance curricula a lot more organized and well-thought-out, and then taught ballroom where I continued reviewing the info they got from a master class over the weekend (about "squashing" their frames to make them look competitive). Then did my first solo practice in forever - forgot what it was like to really work hard at a specific topic on my own, I need more of this in my life.

 

Then I got home and went full Hermione Grainger and tried to finish everything I could for my grad school course that started yesterday (complete with a baby coding black hole, to borrow @Mad Hatter's brilliant phrasing). I'm mostly excited for this machine learning course, although I can tell from the first homework that I'm a bit weak in the linear algebra prerequisites needed to do well in the course (I got an 88% on the assignment, but there was a LOT of googling for help within that).

 

And because I'm ADHD and love taking on new projects, I converted a small journal notebook I've been carrying around into a Bullet Journal for both work and personal stuff (previously had only used it for personal). I'm cautiously optimistic that it'll be helpful for keeping important info in a spot and generally making me feel more at ease with what I'm doing and not doing (hopefully). If nothing else, it'll help use up a partially filled notebook, of which I have *lots* kicking around the house.

 

Oh, and I finally made it back to the gym for a full workout this morning! I was playing with gymnastics rings and it was rough - but it felt good to be back in the gym!

 

Plans for tonight include more dance practice, a bit of Hermione-ing, and hanging some art on the walls, hopefully (plus getting to bed actually early tonight - yesterday was a bit later than intended with the coding black hole).

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THAT IS ALL ONE DAY? Hahah. Such productivity, wow. 

 

Glad you got a fun workout in this am as well. I'm sure the rings missed you! 

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Drive-by update.

 

Week 3, Day 4: First day back in the apartment gym and playing with gymnastics rings - I could tell my strength needs to be built back up a bit, but it felt good to get in and work on some strength things. Also did the rest of my morning stuff passably, albeit not quickly or efficiently (still working on that). But I did the things and it felt good. Proceeded to have an ok if not great work day, and grabbed dinner with friends instead of slogging through a low energy practice. It was delicious, but I'm a little sluggish and not feelin' amazing this morning - cheesy enchiladas and sweet potato chips were still totes worth it, though!

 

I'm at a weird spot with my grad school course where I currently don't have any more work to do - they need to fix their grader so I can keep working on one problem, and they haven't yet released the next unit. I'm hoping I can stay this on top of it so that I avoid the last-minute scramble pattern I fell into with my last course (it helps that I'm more interested in this material - applying machine learning algorithms - than I was in deeply theoretical stats).

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2 hours ago, raptron said:

THAT IS ALL ONE DAY? Hahah. Such productivity, wow. 

Oh dear, YOU'RE SAYING I PACKED A LOT IN?? Haha.

 

To be fair, the rings were Thursday morning and the rest was Wednesday - I'm bad at calling out workout times.

 

2 hours ago, raptron said:

Glad you got a fun workout in this am as well. I'm sure the rings missed you! 

For sure! Though they have a weird way of showing it. :D But I know the strength and stability will build back up soon enough.

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If I have to believe in God to be able to retire at 40, I'll do it. Teach me your ways! It sounds like I have to Do A Shitload Of Stuff All The Time if I want to emulate your lifestyle, and man, I just don't know about that. At the very least it sounds like a lot more math than the coding I'm doing now. Machine learning sounds super cool though and is something I'd love to learn more about. Unfortunately I can't stand the thought of reintroducing student debt into my life.

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1 hour ago, Deckard Gainz said:

If I have to believe in God to be able to retire at 40, I'll do it.

:P Hahahaha I think my life trajectory has less to do with being a Catholic heretic than just being lucky on a lot of fronts:

  • My dream school offered me a VERY generous mix of financial aid and scholarships, and my parents had saved up to cover a big chunk of my remaining college expenses; with some $1-4k contributions from summer earnings I was able to cover the remainder (I HUSTLED as a lifeguard - always at least 40 hours, often a bit more, then another 20 hours teaching swim lessons - for the summers before freshman and sophomore years, then had higher paying engineering internships); all that's to say, I was lucky enough to graduate from a 4-year, on-campus program at a nationally-ranked school without student loans
  • My then-now-ex-fiancee caused me to look specifically at jobs in Dallas, which landed me outside traditional engineering and into generally higher-paid business analytics (my current field) - a REALLY big chunk of me being on track to make work-for-pay-optional at 40 is the high income I've had from this career track (I won't disclose the exact dollar amount, in part because it's variable based on EOY bonus compensation, but I'm currently in the top 10% of incomes for my age as a late 20s guy)
  • I discovered the personal finance corner of the internet thanks to a coworker who wrote a blog (dqydj.net, don't love their written content TBH but they churn out some calculators / tools from publicly available but hard to process data); and thanks to that, I've done a pretty decent job of keeping my spending flat or slightly decreasing it as my income's gone up

 

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Teach me your ways! It sounds like I have to Do A Shitload Of Stuff All The Time if I want to emulate your lifestyle, and man, I just don't know about that. At the very least it sounds like a lot more math than the coding I'm doing now. Machine learning sounds super cool though and is something I'd love to learn more about.

Haha there's certainly a lot of math - but actually a lot of the value I add in a business context is just being able to get down and dirty with how the business processes and IT systems function together, what that looks like in our internal data, what that means for the customer's experience, and how we should interpret all of that to make better business decisions. It's a lot...squishier than pure math or engineering, that's for sure. And involves lots of navigating the politics of large business organizations to get any meaningful changes done, which is the least interesting part of the job until you go full Machiavellian sociopath and then it's the most fascinating. JK...kinda.

 

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Unfortunately I can't stand the thought of reintroducing student debt into my life.

It's not totally free, but the program I'm doing is actually pretty affordable! I pay $300 per course for 4 courses, plus a $300 fee for the final capstone exam for the program - all 100% online and semi-self-paced (units released roughly weekly, but you theoretically can work about 2 weeks ahead) - I recognize that $1,500 still ain't cheap to everyone, but just throwing it out there since I was pleasantly shocked by the price tag when I found this program - though admittedly it's a "micromasters" on my resume and not a full-blown MS. There's also probably other options out there for pretty affordable if you want the exposure to machine learning without needing to do the formal stats background first - although you'll want at least some familiarity with basic stats concepts, even if you don't do the full-blown multivariable calc version that I slogged through.

https://micromasters.mit.edu/ds/

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The micro masters looks neat! And let’s be real for most work situations you really don’t need a full on masters degree, you can learn most things on the job unless you’re looking at an academic career.

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3 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

The micro masters looks neat! And let’s be real for most work situations you really don’t need a full on masters degree, you can learn most things on the job unless you’re looking at an academic career.

110% agree!! Just for credentialing purposes I know it might keep me from some opportunities if a place has a lot of strong candidates for a job - and that’s ok! I don’t need to be picked for every opportunity, because I’ll find the right work ones for me (and a full on grad degree makes a lot less sense if you’re looking at a potentially shorter career than normal).

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7 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

Ahem CONGRATULATIONS NEW GUILD LEADER!

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Lool because clearly you don't have enough responsibilities already :lol:

Congrats!

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19 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

Ahem CONGRATULATIONS NEW GUILD LEADER!

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This year you gave me the courage to stand up as a Huff, and acted as the model to be proud of it. <3 you boo. (Even though you made me walk up and down Manhattan like 5 times in the same day :P )

 

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On 6/15/2019 at 6:11 PM, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

Ahem CONGRATULATIONS NEW GUILD LEADER!

giphy.gif

 

On 6/16/2019 at 1:51 AM, Mad Hatter said:

Congrats!

On 6/16/2019 at 11:49 AM, Harriet said:

Guild Leader?!? Congrats! 

On 6/16/2019 at 1:08 PM, @mu said:

Congratulations!!

On 6/16/2019 at 1:23 PM, RedStone said:

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23 hours ago, Gemma said:

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1 hour ago, JustCallMeAmber said:

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New GL! :D

:D:D:D seriously, thanks so much, y'all!!

 

On 6/16/2019 at 1:51 AM, Mad Hatter said:

Lool because clearly you don't have enough responsibilities already :lol:

:lol: we're going with the hypothesis that I'm actually Hermione Grainger circa book 3, and will shortly be given a time turner to make my life manageable ish. Or maybe I'm just crazy and love 

 

On 6/16/2019 at 1:23 PM, RedStone said:

This year you gave me the courage to stand up as a Huff, and acted as the model to be proud of it. <3 you boo. (Even though you made me walk up and down Manhattan like 5 times in the same day :P )

:P you loved it and you know it! Or at least the food crawl we did made it kinda worth it. :D

 

Weekend update: Didn't do so hot on routines, especially bedtime. I think I need to realize that when bedtime is slipping and Netflix binges are happening, it's usually linked to a depressive-type episode (mine tend to be VERY slow building so they're sneaky). Some self-care is in order to get to the bottom of what's making me feel this way and how I can pull myself out of it - it appears it's at least partially linked to:

  • Aforementioned money stress - which is starting to sort itself out
  • Some dating disappointment - cure here is just to remember that I'm still young and I just moved to an area with a LOT of potential opportunities on this front
  • Stress of having a dance partner out of commission, plus missing one of my favorite activities while he recovers (partner dancing without the partner is right up there with sugar-substitute ice cream in the poor substitute pantheon - FIGHT ME, halo top fans :P) - fortunately this resolved itself, but next time I'll need to be more proactive on making a solo practice plan plus some social activities to fill the void
  • Some anxiety over not being done with all the move-in stuff yet - cure here is to remind myself I'm on no particular deadline, the housewarming parties can happen eventually (and they can happen even if I have some extra furniture laying around)
  •  Some ennui over feeling like a mediocre employee at work - the cure here is to remind myself not to schedule my work like I'm an android who works at peak efficiency 100% of the work day, and instead recognize I'm human and I'll occasionally pop on internet forums or just need a long brain break
  • Some stress over starting a grad school course again, and doubts about whether or not I'll be able to make it work with the rest of my schedule - but the cure here is to remember that it's less than 3 months then I am DONE with the coursework for this micromasters (and I've passed 3 courses already, even if I just stopped working on the one before this as soon as I hit a passing grade - whoopsies!)
  • Some stress over adding a new dance co-teacher (my dance partner) to my kids' latin class - he's phenomenal but collaborating requires a different level of communication and planning than just doing our own thing would. And also over not having a plan currently for my ballroom class - so I'm currently just winging it there. The solution was to do some high-level planning including a sample set of lesson plans for the next two weeks to try out the format, plus having a working brunch on Saturday to start the planning process for the Latin class

Listing the above out is definitely helping - and I'll be sure to journal / reflect as needed in the ole BuJo to try and keep tabs on this going forward.

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