Devout_Haruhiist's First Strength Challenge

[Harriet]

1 hour ago, Deckard Gainz said:

for a lot of folks, myself included, using something mentally "easier" like physical exercise is a great first step towards improving other areas of life

This is so true. Lifting was the thing I could start when everything else was too hard and scary. It's only physically hard.

 

8 hours ago, Devout_Haruhiist said:

Quick update on my challenge. The only one going pretty well is #1. I feel like I have been doing pretty decently in most of my workouts and getting over some of those mental barriers. Eating is still basically terrible. Finances are even worse (in fact I just posted a thread about it on that subforum) and leading me to occasionally panic.

Sorry about the panic  I hope the other nerds have some useful advice for you. Anyway, keep going. Things will keep improving in a non-linear fashion. 

[Scaly Freak]

2 hours ago, Harriet said:

This is so true. Lifting was the thing I could start when everything else was too hard and scary. It's only physically hard.

 

I disagree. Lifting is "mostly" physically hard, but there is a big mental component to it, that is challenging in its own right. For some of us it's getting to the gym to do it in the first place. For others, it's pushing through the boring part, for yet others, it's the mental fortitude it takes to do just one more rep... and the list goes on.

 

But that also means that lifting makes us mentally tougher and more resilient, and that is a good thing.

[Harriet]

30 minutes ago, scalyfreak said:

I disagree. Lifting is "mostly" physically hard, but there is a big mental component to it, that is challenging in its own right. For some of us it's getting to the gym to do it in the first place. For others, it's pushing through the boring part, for yet others, it's the mental fortitude it takes to do just one more rep...

Well, given that I was complaining only yesterday about my struggles with the deadlift, I must admit that you are right. Lifting can be mentally/emotionally challenging. Still, at least for me, it's a bit different to other worries in that it doesn't follow me around and seep into other areas of my life. It's just one hard thing that stays in the gym. 

[Scaly Freak]

6 minutes ago, Harriet said:

Still, at least for me, it's a bit different to other worries in that it doesn't follow me around and seep into other areas of my life. It's just one hard thing that stays in the gym. 

 

Not only does it stay in the gym, you can actually defeat it. It's an obstacle that we genuinely can overcome, and that sense of accomplishment and feeling of "I'M A BADASS!!! Take that, world!" follows us out of the gym and back out to the open-world map with vague quests and unclear direction that is the rest of our lives.

[Harriet]

8 minutes ago, scalyfreak said:

Not only does it stay in the gym, you can actually defeat it. It's an obstacle that we genuinely can overcome, and that sense of accomplishment and feeling of "I'M A BADASS!!! Take that, world!" follows us out of the gym and back out to the open-world map with vague quests and unclear direction that is the rest of our lives.

Yes! So much! it's a battle we can win, an enemy we can slay. If not this week, then next week, or soon. So many things in life I ask myself "am I even making progress?" But not with lifting. With lifting, there's a pleasant "ping" noise as I level up. 
 

[Deckard Gainz]

1 hour ago, scalyfreak said:

back out to the open-world map with vague quests and unclear direction that is the rest of our lives.

 

This is what I was getting at. The quotes and the -ier suffix were doing a lot of heavy lifting there (pun intended). The mental challenges of exercise are still, for most people most of the time, easi-ER than mental challenges which require you to think about more than "move that metal from point A to point B." I never meant to imply exercise is only physically challenging. I've been humbled mentally by the barbell many a time.

[Scaly Freak]

3 minutes ago, Deckard Gainz said:

I've been humbled mentally by the barbell many a time.

 

We all have. Though that means we're doing it right.

[RedStone]

4 hours ago, Deckard Gainz said:

I've been humbled mentally by the barbell many a time.

 

IMO I think that's where the adage "no pain no gain" comes from. We know that pain in movement is a problem, but HARD is good. Getting through those last few reps, or putting that dreaded extra plate on the bar, or even just showing up, is HARD - which I believe translates to mental pain for many people. (But it doesn't rhyme soooooooo...)

[Scaly Freak]

1 hour ago, RedStone said:

 

IMO I think that's where the adage "no pain no gain" comes from. We know that pain in movement is a problem, but HARD is good. Getting through those last few reps, or putting that dreaded extra plate on the bar, or even just showing up, is HARD - which I believe translates to mental pain for many people. (But it doesn't rhyme soooooooo...)

 

To paraphrase one of my favorite Lannisters, the mind needs barbells like a sword needs a whetstone.  

 

Difficult, challenging, even intimidating... putting those two 2.5 lbs plates on the barbell for the next set, can be terrifying. But we do it, and we lift it, and then....

 

 

Now I want to go to the gym...!

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Wow! Thanks for the vigorous discussion here! Wanted to throw in my experience.

 

I agree that the gym/lifting stuff is mentally "easier" as at least the steps are mostly clear cut and just require execution. Compared to, for example, recovering from depression where there is no set procedure or rep scheme to make assured progress.

 

That said I have always been envious of those of you that get that feeling of success/accomplishment after lifting. I mean, I am motivated to go work out but always tend to react with nothing or beat myself up. I am never celebratory, excited, loud, or otherwuse happy and usually when I lift something my mind sees it more as a reminder of how weak I am rather than strong. And in a weird or twisted way I think it gets comfort in that, as my mental image of myself has always been "weak and skinny", whether true or not, and it gets pleasure from reaffirming that. 

[Scaly Freak]

23 minutes ago, Devout_Haruhiist said:

That said I have always been envious of those of you that get that feeling of success/accomplishment after lifting. I mean, I am motivated to go work out but always tend to react with nothing or beat myself up. I am never celebratory, excited, loud, or otherwise happy and usually when I lift something my mind sees it more as a reminder of how weak I am rather than strong. 

 

Well, I don't particularly see myself as strong either. (Unless I just managed to add more weight to the bar for a full series of reps and sets). I see myself in the process of becoming stronger. That's where the sense of accomplishment comes from. If I'm still weak, that's okay, because I am less so than what I was yesterday. I am also in a life-long boss battle against the Demon of Procrastination, so simply being at the gym at all counts as a partial victory for me.

[Harriet]

1 hour ago, Devout_Haruhiist said:

That said I have always been envious of those of you that get that feeling of success/accomplishment after lifting. I mean, I am motivated to go work out but always tend to react with nothing or beat myself up. I am never celebratory, excited, loud, or otherwuse happy and usually when I lift something my mind sees it more as a reminder of how weak I am rather than strong. And in a weird or twisted way I think it gets comfort in that, as my mental image of myself has always been "weak and skinny", whether true or not, and it gets pleasure from reaffirming that. 

Oh no  This is sad. So I also have depression. 20 years of it, though it's been better recently. And one of the reasons lifting worked for me is that I never associated being good at sports with my self image. I always sucked at sport, so I had no ego invested in it. So when I started lifting I was sure I was going to be terrible but I didn't care because I thought going from level 0 to level 5 would be a significant improvement, even if more talented lifters are at level 50. Then the weights kept saying to me in concrete numbers "you're doing better than last time", and I loved getting that specific, irrefutable, positive feedback. With other feedback, it's always possible to doubt. So if my writing group tells me they liked my story I could imagine they're just being polite, or that they don't realise how bad my work is. Not with lifting. The weights don't lie or flatter and are not open to negative interpretation. Well, unless you interpret the specific weight as not good enough. What do you think would count as proof that you are no longer "weak", or that you are on your way to being strong? What do you think it would feel like to let go of the picture of yourself as skinny and weak? What would it feel like if you started to imagine yourself as strong? Would that be scary for you, or enjoyable? You don't have to answer, I'm just thinking about what you said and wishing for more enjoyment for you. 

[Scaly Freak]

58 minutes ago, Harriet said:

I always sucked at sport, so I had no ego invested in it. So when I started lifting I was sure I was going to be terrible but I didn't care because I thought going from level 0 to level 5 would be a significant improvement, even if more talented lifters are at level 50. Then the weights kept saying to me in concrete numbers "you're doing better than last time", and I loved getting that specific, irrefutable, positive feedback. With other feedback, it's always possible to doubt. So if my writing group tells me they liked my story I could imagine they're just being polite, or that they don't realize how bad my work is. Not with lifting. The weights don't lie or flatter and are not open to negative interpretation.

 

This is so much like me it would be creepy if it wasn't a good thing to be barbell twins  

 

Nia Shanks sums up all the "other" benefits from lifting very nicely in her article 8 Reason Women Should Strength Train (which I really think should say "everyone" instead of "women"). On days when I for any reason just aren't at my best with the weights and have to remove plates just to get through a set, I think about Nia's list and I can still feel good about my progress because I can see improvement in the things she mentions. Lifting really is one of the best anti-anxiety medications out there.

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Wow thanks again for the huge support! I will try to give some more details/clarity around what I meant.

 

Mentally, I agree with what you are saying in that the numbers can't be denied. It's more on the emotional level that I seem to hit a roadblock. I did start lifting hoping it would be a piece in treating my depression/anxiety but it just hasn't clicked yet. Maybe with this discussion it will.

 

Main reasons behind the "image" of me being weak and the associated feelings 

(Warning: this might be a bit unsavory towards the end but while we are putting everything on the table here we go. I would not blame anyone for feeling awkward reading this)

 

1. General sense of low self worth or subconscious feeling of not deserving anything

 

2. Being brought up as the "smart" child but not athletic left me acting as a certain character most of my life, especially with family. So now when I get complimented for something in work or school I feel "right" but if someone compliments my physique I automatically feel embarassed and try to cover it up or pass it off. It's hard to want to make progress like this with all these kind of chains.

 

3. For a long part of my life I have kind of fetishized my weakness. Most of my comparisons of not getting strong enough are with, rather than successful male athletes which would maybe be typical, but with female as I get some kind of weird pleasure in being weaker (or trying to get stronger but not making it far). I won't bother you all with more details around this since this detail is probably already showing me in a different and weird light.

 

Now I have a lot of self awareness of the above, which helps somewhat. And one small success is that I have kept up training despite all that, but despite all other efforts (more broadly targeted at my depression and anxiety) including therapy, coaching, books, articles, etc. I think a lot of the underlying factors are still there and holding me back from walking out of the gym beaming about what I just did.

 

[Scaly Freak]

Never apologize for being "weird".

 

Embrace what makes you unique instead. Take pride in it. That doesn't mean you need to flaunt it, primarily because more unusual weirdness tends to freak out people who are still in denial about the fact that normalcy is a delusion, and who think being "normal" is something to strive for. In general, freaking out everyone around us is just not practical. But we should never allow that to make us feel bad, or guilty, or embarrassed, about something personal that 95% of the people we meet every day would never understand.

 

The true reality is that there is no such thing as a normal person. There are only people who are better at hiding their weirdness, or people whose weirdness is so common that no one else realizes how weird they actually are.

 

Everyone is a weirdo. Everyone is some kind of freak. And this is a great thing.

[Harriet]

36 minutes ago, Devout_Haruhiist said:

3. For a long part of my life I have kind of fetishized my weakness. Most of my comparisons of not getting strong enough are with, rather than successful male athletes which would maybe be typical, but with female as I get some kind of weird pleasure in being weaker (or trying to get stronger but not making it far). I won't bother you all with more details around this since this detail is probably already showing me in a different and weird light.

 

This sounds pretty normal to me. Society creates lots of gendered expectations about our behaviour/abilities/interests and links these with our worth as women/men. We all internalise a lot of these messages (although not everyone gets exactly the same messages, they tend to overlap a lot). The fun starts when we realise something isn't working for us... that we're doing what was required (for me, it's being nice, managing other peoples' feelings, being demure, being quiet, being thin, being really thin, just being so thin yeah) but the promised rewards (love, adoration, respect, admiration, attention, self worth) aren't materialising. Then we have a decision to make: double down on the thing that's not working in the hope that we'll finally get it right (if I can just get a bit thinner... if I can just stop people from getting angry, upset, offended annoyed with me... ) OR we can try something new and look for role models to try to adjust our understanding of what we should be. A year or two before I started lifting I saw the article about Spezzy and it just... let a little bit of light into that locked room... then I started seeing and noticing examples of strong awesome women everywhere. Then eventually I was ready to try it myself... and it felt good, so I was able to let the old idea go more easily. 

Anyway, you're doing awesomely. Keep going. 

[JessFit]

I absolutely get where you're coming from as the "smart" but weak child. I was told often as a kid/teen/young adult that I couldn't do things because I was too feminine, too nerdy, too weak, etc. That I'd hate something and not to bother trying it, even though I really wanted to try it. So on and so forth. I'm lucky to be overcoming that in my adult life. I'm still unable to throw or catch or run, but I'm pretty damn strong. If it is ever something that you want to talk about, I'm here for you! 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Thanks again for the support! Yeah, I have been trying to re-evaluate my general direction in life and get to the point where I can be a bit braver but it just hasn't clicked yet.I tend to be very caught up in my thoughts, superficial desires, and other things and can never get to the "core" issues that seem to be holding me back. I also have a lot of regret of not figuring this out earlier and hopelessness about the future panning out any differently. I will often say (in forums like this) that I want change, but my actions are not reflecting that.

 

As far as an update on my challenge stuff, not much happening here. I am away visiting family and haven't really worked out. I always tell myself I am going to do pushups or something (another thing I am horrible at despite doing them for years) but I never do it. Finances I guess are same as usual.

[Harriet]

2 hours ago, Devout_Haruhiist said:

Thanks again for the support! Yeah, I have been trying to re-evaluate my general direction in life and get to the point where I can be a bit braver but it just hasn't clicked yet.I tend to be very caught up in my thoughts, superficial desires, and other things and can never get to the "core" issues that seem to be holding me back. I also have a lot of regret of not figuring this out earlier and hopelessness about the future panning out any differently. I will often say (in forums like this) that I want change, but my actions are not reflecting that.

 

As far as an update on my challenge stuff, not much happening here. I am away visiting family and haven't really worked out. I always tell myself I am going to do pushups or something (another thing I am horrible at despite doing them for years) but I never do it. Finances I guess are same as usual.

You're doing great. These things take time to click, as you say. Sometimes the right message or opportunity comes along but it's the wrong time, and you don't connect until later, when you're ready. 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

1 minute ago, Harriet said:

You're doing great. These things take time to click, as you say. Sometimes the right message or opportunity comes along but it's the wrong time, and you don't connect until later, when you're ready. 

 

Yeah, that's true. I have a bad problem with time scarcity. I am constantly afraid I have wasted too much time in my life and depression from that causes me to waste even more. I am anticipating a lot of future regret, I guess.

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Just thought I would give an update on my challenge and some surrounding things.

 

As far as exercise I am just finishing my trip to my home state to visit family and heading back to my normal residence tomorrow. Looking forward to getting back to lifting with my trainer. I did like 1 decent bodyweight work out while I was away, but didn't feel too bad about it. I hope that I can take renewed effort into exercise when I get back. Will also heed the advice of those here and put more pressure on my trainer on tracking strength. Hoping to close out the remainder of June with some good gains.

 

As far as nutrition, basically nothing has moved on that front. I am currently debating a few options in my head, inspired by advice I got here and elsewhere:

a) Starting to just be more mindful and making very small changes (e.g. just make sure I get enough protein, and start with that)

b) Look into learning to cook via meal delivery type services

c) Look into outright prepared meals with a fitness bent to them, there is at least 1 company I am aware of that does this but would be open to learning about more

 

Finances are still in complete shambles. I did get a huge outpouring of advice on my other thread about it, so I am grateful for that. Sadly, however, it all still comes down to me changing my habits which does not seem to be happening. I am getting paid tomorrow and the whole paycheck is basically already accounted for bills, payments to CC, pleasurable things I already bought that I owe money for, or food. My actions and my intentions on this stuff are really not matching up. I say I want to be more financially secure but I constantly spend all the money I have.

 

Related to all of the above is some good, if difficult, work I have been doing with my life coach. I have come to realize more definitively how addicted I am to internet fetish stuff. This was something I always tried to keep separate, as if it was a separate character who was getting more and more emotionally, financially, and time invested into this stuff but I have started to associate that person with myself, if that makes sense. I have been more open with my coach and plan to be more open here about my addiction to face it head on. Sadly it's especially awkward for me since it's basically (though it goes in all different directions) a (female) muscle fetish, which I alluded to in prior posts. It not only affects my perceptions of my workouts and strength but drains huge amounts (100s of dollars a month) of money and a lot of time. I have come to realize I am not really addicted necessarily to the related sexual release but more to the behavior of constantly checking fetish sites for new content, instagram pages for new pictures, or other sources. It has come to the point where I check it multiple times per hour. In a weird way this both feeds and evidences my low self worth.

 

I have considered looking into addiction support but I have not found much on this forum yet and would love some direction if anyone has any. I know it can be a tough topic. Honestly I don't know if I value myself enough to exit this cycle of self-destruction but I wonder if it is at least worth researching. Any (non-religious) support group recommendations might be helpful too.

 

I feel I am at a pivotal point in my life and the next few months could dictate a lot about whether I follow the same path or actually make my life the way I want it. I have always thought it is too late to change which I despaired about, which ironically made more time pass with no change. I have always jumped from therapist, to coach, to group or book (and maybe this is just the latest) looking for someone to "fix" me or give me a step by step procedure to be happy that would appeal to my analytical mind and gotten little progress or direction as my willpower, at the end of the day, just was not there. I just seemed to prefer suffering and proving myself "right" in some twisted way rather than actually being happy.

 

Sorry if that got a bit heavy for a challenge thread.

[Harriet]

Hmmm, yeah, addictions are a bit specific, and also people don't always talk openly about them, so I imagine a specialised forum would be helpful. 

 

The next few months are a good opportunity to make changes, but there will also be further opportunities after that. I know what you mean about feeling it's too late and that you've wasted a lot of time - that's how I felt all the time when I was very depressed, before I started changing things for the better. I felt like I'd wasted so much of my life and that the rest of my life was also going to zoom by in a blue of nothingness. But time has slowed down a bit since I discovered some of the things I want to do and started filling my days with them. 

Yeah, I don't think there'll be a quick fix or a step by step procedure. For me there has been a lot of work and practice that feels yuck and pointless, like it's not making much of a difference. Like I was trying to build a castle but everything keeps sinking into the swamp. But eventually I found one block that stayed put and i've been building other things around it. There's still lots of work to do but at least I can see progress now. So keep trying things. I hope you find some solid ground to start building on. 

 

 

[Deckard Gainz]

There are a lot of folks with a lot of good advice and personal experience with similar behaviors and habits, but at the end of the day it will absolutely have to come down to your own resolve and willingness to improve, and more importantly, willingness to take actionable steps towards improvement beyond planning and waxing hopeful. We can try our best to help you drum up that internal motivation, but there's only so much the outside world can do. The reason I'm saying this is primarily to communicate that spending money on self-help stuff probably isn't helping your cause if you just keep moving from thing to thing. I'm sure you know this, but it's maybe worth repeating. Besides, this forum is free!

 

The "make bad behaviors more difficult" piece of advice from your other thread is just as relevant with non-financial issues. If you look around these forums, you'll see plenty of people fighting their urges to constantly check the internet by leaving their phones in separate rooms before bed, installing time management software, software that blocks certain websites some or all of the time, and so on.

 

You're correct to infer that the subject of addiction usually is not the cause, particularly when chemical use isn't concerned. I'm not qualified to talk at length about addiction, but I do have at least enough experience with human sexuality to talk about that. It's also a subject I really enjoy! Given the sensitive nature of sexuality in the public discourse, I'll spoiler my thoughts on that:

 

Spoiler

 

I'm going to make a huge assumption here, which is that part of "making your life the way you want it" is being able to enjoy your sexuality with a partner(s) in a way that's consensual and doesn't require you to pay anyone money. I mean, even if your thing is findom, if you're paying a partner, presumably you'd see some returns on that, but I digress.

 

Regardless of what your ideal romantic/sexual configuration looks like, a huge part of finding success is being a worthy and desirable partner. Fortunately those concepts are pretty fluid, and you can totally compartmentalize the ideas of being weak and/or unworthy to a sexual context alone, while pursuing worthwhile activities the rest of the time. The first step towards that is doing things that improve your worth and desirability to yourself. In this case I think it's probably a good idea to keep the sexualized and non-sexualized versions of your self image separated, but that's different than being open about them in ways that will help you, which I encourage you to keep doing.

 

Maybe when you're finding yourself start to feel like indulging yourelf you can just try to be mindful and think about the steps you'd need to take to turn a time-and-money-draining fantasy into a reality. The worthwhile stuff tends to cost a lot of time and/or money too, but it's more of an investment than an empty expenditure.

 

I'm happy to talk more about this stuff privately if you're hesitant to put too much out in the open. Despite the spoilers, I'm still trying to keep things vague and general enough to not step on any potential readers' toes, but I know this stuff can be weird and uncomfortable from all sorts of angles.

 

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Thanks for all the advice! I appreciate the amazingly detailed responses I get on here.

 

It is certainly tough, I feel like on the one hand everything is connected. i.e. if I can quit my addiction I might succeed in other areas more in the way I want. On the other hand I think maybe if I build out my life in the real world more I would lose the need for the addiction. On the third hand I am probably just not giving myself enough credit. A few years ago I would have never imagined going to the gym regularly and making online dating accounts or the other stuff I do. I need to recognize better what I have done.

 

All that said, my most recent leaning is that I have to quit this addiction to get over the shame of it and know I can do it. Otherwise I am just continuing a self-destructive spiral both mentally as well as financially.

[Harriet]

On 6/13/2019 at 5:58 PM, Devout_Haruhiist said:

It is certainly tough, I feel like on the one hand everything is connected. i.e. if I can quit my addiction I might succeed in other areas more in the way I want. On the other hand I think maybe if I build out my life in the real world more I would lose the need for the addiction. On the third hand I am probably just not giving myself enough credit. A few years ago I would have never imagined going to the gym regularly and making online dating accounts or the other stuff I do. I need to recognize better what I have done.

 

Yeah, it goes both ways, right? I'm currently trying to spend less time on the internet and checking my phone, and more time concentrating deeply on other things. I tried to quit computer time once or twice before I had started lifting, and I just went back to it because I didn't have many other feel-good things in my life. Adding stuff in has naturally reduced the computer time a bit. But the remaining computer time is stopping me from focusing more on other things, so I might have to try actively cutting down a bit. 

It's awesome that you've made some changes and can see that you're doing better!