Devout_Haruhiist's First Strength Challenge

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Just another update. I am actually having a better day than normal.

 

Yesterday I went back to the gym for the first time since I was away on a weeklong trip. I felt the usual feelings of weakness and inadequacy while lifting not as much as I wanted but overall the workout went ok and I think I will be able to get back into the swing of things.

 

Today I had my first ever second date with a woman and it went really well. She is fun to talk to, into gaming, very fit, and just overall nice to be around. I am excited to see where it goes since I have never had anything go beyond a first date until now and feel like the demographic I try to seek out of women who game and are into fitness are rare outside of this forum.

 

I also went like 36 hours without indulging my addiction at all.

 

Finances still in shambles like usual and diet still basically 0 progress. I did look a bit more into meal delivery services and maybe will have something sorted out in the next week.

[Harriet]

2 hours ago, Devout_Haruhiist said:

Today I had my first ever second date with a woman and it went really well. She is fun to talk to, into gaming, very fit, and just overall nice to be around.

Sweet! Good for you! 

[JessFit]

Baby steps are still steps! Good for you for the progress you're making. 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Had a bit of a rough day mentally yesterday. I did work out and did ok with it (still no progress on any of my other goals and my finances continue to be awful, plus if anything I am eating less and probably squandering my workouts and actually losing weight).

I was excited about how my dates the prior weekend went before but now they are just a source of more anxiety. I am also getting tired of my impulse to generally whine like this but it's a bit addictive I guess and a habit I have had for a long time. Just never acknowledging or caring about anything good I am doing.

[Deckard Gainz]

It's normal to be anxious about dating. Just try to stay cool and calm and take life as it comes. Easier said than done I know. And don't worry about using this as a space to vent. Plenty of us do, and there's nothing wrong with a little catharsis. You should try to aknowledge the good stuff too though. You worked out; that's already something.

 

If there's anything I know how to do, it's gain weight. So let's work on that. Are you tracking calories or anything like that? Does working out make you hungry?

[Blocky]

17 hours ago, Deckard Gainz said:

If there's anything I know how to do, it's gain weight.

 

You're not alone. My trick is alcohol and carbs (unfortunately, that also answers the question of "How do I lose weight?")...

[Harriet]

On 6/19/2019 at 4:13 PM, Devout_Haruhiist said:

I was excited about how my dates the prior weekend went before but now they are just a source of more anxiety. I am also getting tired of my impulse to generally whine like this but it's a bit addictive I guess and a habit I have had for a long time. Just never acknowledging or caring about anything good I am doing.

 

There's nothing wrong with a bit of venting, but not acknowledging what's going well is not such a good habit. Your beliefs matter to your happiness, obviously, but they also matter to your success. Apparently there was a study where strength training people were told they were on steroids, and they gained four times as much strength as the control group who were not told they were on steroids (neither group was in fact on steroids). Also, there was an experiment where they told  people they had a "good" or "bad" copy of a gene that affects aerobic exercise performance. Those who were told they had the good gene performed better, regardless of whether it was true. Neato, huh? In my view it means that optimism is a useful tool to cultivate, alongside training, good nutrition, good sleep, etc. Not that you have to do any or all of these things perfectly, right now or ever. It's just something you might eventually want to think about. 

 

You might not want to make any changes just now, but if you were interested, you could make a deliberate practice of doing a couple of cognitive behavioural therapy exercises each day. It doesn't make much difference on the day, but it eventually changes your thought patterns more permanently, if you stick at it. It can help take the sting out of failures (when you realise they don't reflect on your entire life, you as a person, now and forever). I did this a long time ago and found it useful. Or you could keep a gratitude journal, lots of people have testified to its usefulness.

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Thanks again everyone for your kind responses.

 

On 6/20/2019 at 7:41 AM, Deckard Gainz said:

It's normal to be anxious about dating. Just try to stay cool and calm and take life as it comes. Easier said than done I know. And don't worry about using this as a space to vent. Plenty of us do, and there's nothing wrong with a little catharsis. You should try to aknowledge the good stuff too though. You worked out; that's already something.

 

If there's anything I know how to do, it's gain weight. So let's work on that. Are you tracking calories or anything like that? Does working out make you hungry?

 

As far as food, I did track calories for about a month when I started with my new trainer. I found that I could get enough protein daily with the use of some supplements (powder) but really struggled with calories. I was eating (and this was when I was in a good mood and had more money-- it's worse now) maybe 1600-1800 calories a day. For the record (if it matters) I am 30 years old, 5'7" tall, 133 lbs (13% bf). Working out does not make me hungry in the slightest. I don't really enjoy eating all that much entirely.

 

I think the main obstacles are the following (no particular order):

a) not eating enough at meals

b) not eating the right things (almost all food at work (though some of it is "healthy") or food out/microwave things since I cannot cook)

c) financial things

d) conditioning on processed food, etc.

e) difficulty getting motivation to eat and/or skipping meals

 

I have thought about solutions to this but haven't really worked it out yet.

 

13 hours ago, Harriet said:

 

There's nothing wrong with a bit of venting, but not acknowledging what's going well is not such a good habit. Your beliefs matter to your happiness, obviously, but they also matter to your success. Apparently there was a study where strength training people were told they were on steroids, and they gained four times as much strength as the control group who were not told they were on steroids (neither group was in fact on steroids). Also, there was an experiment where they told  people they had a "good" or "bad" copy of a gene that affects aerobic exercise performance. Those who were told they had the good gene performed better, regardless of whether it was true. Neato, huh? In my view it means that optimism is a useful tool to cultivate, alongside training, good nutrition, good sleep, etc. Not that you have to do any or all of these things perfectly, right now or ever. It's just something you might eventually want to think about. 

 

You might not want to make any changes just now, but if you were interested, you could make a deliberate practice of doing a couple of cognitive behavioural therapy exercises each day. It doesn't make much difference on the day, but it eventually changes your thought patterns more permanently, if you stick at it. It can help take the sting out of failures (when you realise they don't reflect on your entire life, you as a person, now and forever). I did this a long time ago and found it useful. Or you could keep a gratitude journal, lots of people have testified to its usefulness.

Thanks, Harriet. I have seen similar studies and do find them interesting. Unfortunately my mind also uses even that as an opportunity to twist it and beat myself up. Like "oh, I'm not optimistic so I am never going to get to where other people are, they're better than me because they have that disposition, etc." Basically it's pessimism about getting optimistic. And a feeling of being a "fraud" by being optimistic.

 

I have gone through some CBT with various therapists though maybe I will look into doing more things on my own. I never really had success starting the gratitude journal before. Do you have any tips? My main issues were that I either didn't feel grateful or it was just like 1 thing, e.g. my pets, everyday and it just kind of hammered in how little else there is.

[Harriet]

9 hours ago, Devout_Haruhiist said:

Thanks, Harriet. I have seen similar studies and do find them interesting. Unfortunately my mind also uses even that as an opportunity to twist it and beat myself up. Like "oh, I'm not optimistic so I am never going to get to where other people are, they're better than me because they have that disposition, etc." Basically it's pessimism about getting optimistic. And a feeling of being a "fraud" by being optimistic.

I remember having similar thoughts many years ago when I was very depressed. Managing your emotions and the focus of your thoughts is a learnable skill, however, and a very useful one. 

 

9 hours ago, Devout_Haruhiist said:

I have gone through some CBT with various therapists though maybe I will look into doing more things on my own. I never really had success starting the gratitude journal before. Do you have any tips? My main issues were that I either didn't feel grateful or it was just like 1 thing, e.g. my pets, everyday and it just kind of hammered in how little else there is.

I couldn't get started with the gratitude journal, either. The thing that helped me most was going through the CBT exercises in Dr Burns' "Feeling Good". It's pretty old, but damn, it helped. Burns pointed out the distortions in thinking that depressive people tend to have, and gave exercises for countering them. For example, when we fail at something, depressive people tend to think it's "personal" (it's about them, not about the situation); "pervasive" (the failure affects all aspects of their life, not just one); and "permanent" (the problem will affect their entire life, not just the present). So for example you fail a maths test and think "I"m stupid. I'll probably fail my degree, like I fail at everything I try. I'll never be successful". Whereas someone without the distortions might think "I didn't study hard enough. I should work harder next time so I can get a better grade for maths."
I went through the exercises Burns set out, "countering" the worst of the thoughts I'd had each day. There was no requirement to "feel" the emotional force of what I'd written, to really believe it. All I had to do was write down a logical counterargument to my illogical thoughts. And lo, over time I experienced a profound reduction in extremely negative and repetitive thoughts. I"d say my average daily distress went from a 9 to a 6 over several months. 

[Scaly Freak]

55 minutes ago, Harriet said:

For example, when we fail at something, depressive people tend to think it's "personal" (it's about them, not about the situation); "pervasive" (the failure affects all aspects of their life, not just one); and "permanent" (the problem will affect their entire life, not just the present). So for example you fail a maths test and think "I"m stupid. I'll probably fail my degree, like I fail at everything I try. I'll never be successful". Whereas someone without the distortions might think "I didn't study hard enough. I should work harder next time so I can get a better grade for maths."
I went through the exercises Burns set out, "countering" the worst of the thoughts I'd had each day. There was no requirement to "feel" the emotional force of what I'd written, to really believe it. All I had to do was write down a logical counterargument to my illogical thoughts. And lo, over time I experienced a profound reduction in extremely negative and repetitive thoughts. I"d say my average daily distress went from a 9 to a 6 over several months. 

 

People with anxiety sometimes think this way too.

 

The thought exercise you describe is very similar to what my therapist had me do when we were working on breaking my negative thought patterns and teaching my brain not to freak out the moment something looks like it might go badly. And yes, it does work very well. The trick is to keep doing it until you can see results, and then to continue after that.

[Devout_Haruhiist]

9 hours ago, Harriet said:

I remember having similar thoughts many years ago when I was very depressed. Managing your emotions and the focus of your thoughts is a learnable skill, however, and a very useful one. 

 

I couldn't get started with the gratitude journal, either. The thing that helped me most was going through the CBT exercises in Dr Burns' "Feeling Good". It's pretty old, but damn, it helped. Burns pointed out the distortions in thinking that depressive people tend to have, and gave exercises for countering them. For example, when we fail at something, depressive people tend to think it's "personal" (it's about them, not about the situation); "pervasive" (the failure affects all aspects of their life, not just one); and "permanent" (the problem will affect their entire life, not just the present). So for example you fail a maths test and think "I"m stupid. I'll probably fail my degree, like I fail at everything I try. I'll never be successful". Whereas someone without the distortions might think "I didn't study hard enough. I should work harder next time so I can get a better grade for maths."
I went through the exercises Burns set out, "countering" the worst of the thoughts I'd had each day. There was no requirement to "feel" the emotional force of what I'd written, to really believe it. All I had to do was write down a logical counterargument to my illogical thoughts. And lo, over time I experienced a profound reduction in extremely negative and repetitive thoughts. I"d say my average daily distress went from a 9 to a 6 over several months. 

I actually found I own that book, maybe I will give it another look on your recommendation. The only part I had a remaining question on was this: Whereas someone without the distortions might think "I didn't study hard enough. I should work harder next time so I can get a better grade for maths." -- at least for me, this makes it worse because it means I am "worse" than people without distortions for one reason or another. Does that not make you feel bitter, resigned, defeated, etc.?

 

 

Today I had a second date (my second ever) with a woman I thought might be pretty promising and compatible. We played a board game and it wasn't bad, I was likely going to ask for a third date but she was honest and told me she found me nice to talk to but not attractive. I appreciated her honesty in a world of ghosting, etc. but it still naturally made me feel bad since I have gotten that feedback A LOT since starting my dating journey. I know I have difficulty connecting to people and also have some doubts about parts of my physical attractiveness (being thin, below average height [and often attracted to taller women], etc.). I know I should just dismiss all that and maybe over time I will, idk. I think it is something that is a bit of a habit.

[Scaly Freak]

38 minutes ago, Devout_Haruhiist said:

The only part I had a remaining question on was this: Whereas someone without the distortions might think "I didn't study hard enough. I should work harder next time so I can get a better grade for maths." -- at least for me, this makes it worse because it means I am "worse" than people without distortions for one reason or another. Does that not make you feel bitter, resigned, defeated, etc.?

 

No. Believing that I can change a bad situation into something better, by choosing to act differently when I prepare for the next test, than I did when I prepared for this one, does not make me feel worse. It makes me feel more confident, because it means that the variables that need to change before the next test, are variables I can control.

 

If I stop and begin to dwell on the reasons for why I didn't study hard enough, that might get me started in the direction of a self-destructive downward spiral, but that's what the exercises are for. To stop the brain from going there, and to make it go in the direction of "things I can do to improve my situation" instead. Self-empowerment, in other words.

[Harriet]

54 minutes ago, Devout_Haruhiist said:

I actually found I own that book, maybe I will give it another look on your recommendation. The only part I had a remaining question on was this: Whereas someone without the distortions might think "I didn't study hard enough. I should work harder next time so I can get a better grade for maths." -- at least for me, this makes it worse because it means I am "worse" than people without distortions for one reason or another. Does that not make you feel bitter, resigned, defeated, etc.?

No. I think people's goodness or badness depends on their moral character and the behaviour that flows therefrom, not their skills or health. I wouldn't say I was "worse" than other people for having shin splints or being unskilled at maths. Why would I think myself worse for having a mental illness and lacking useful emotional/cognitive skills? I admit, sometimes I have found it difficult to tell the difference between anhedonia/fatigue and indolence, and I've given myself shit about that. It didn't really help.

To put it another way... would you think yourself "better" than someone who suffers from even more intense depressive thoughts? 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

On 6/22/2019 at 7:42 PM, Harriet said:

No. I think people's goodness or badness depends on their moral character and the behaviour that flows therefrom, not their skills or health. I wouldn't say I was "worse" than other people for having shin splints or being unskilled at maths. Why would I think myself worse for having a mental illness and lacking useful emotional/cognitive skills? I admit, sometimes I have found it difficult to tell the difference between anhedonia/fatigue and indolence, and I've given myself shit about that. It didn't really help.

To put it another way... would you think yourself "better" than someone who suffers from even more intense depressive thoughts? 

That's a good way of putting it. I think that traditionally, in my worst bouts of depression, I would probably at the very least not think of them (out of selfishness) or not care. I have similar issues in relationship seeking, where anyone I am attracted to I tend to feel inferior too but when I am not attracted I stop caring.

 

All that said I have had a slightly better day today. Was feeling a bit more hopeful, read a bit in some self-help books, did kind of a random workout (my trainer was out this weekend), and got some chores done. I also set up a date for this week. I have been feeling a little bit more confident (maybe 1-2%) around dating but I'm wondering if I am restricting myself too much by only using online/apps. I'd like to think I am building the confidence to approach someone in real life but just not sure where to do it and feel awkward.

 

I also read about a CBT exercise I wanted to do using a wrist counter to count "bad" thoughts. This idea really appealed to me but then I had trouble actually finding a suitable wrist counter haha. I would prefer the actual counter rather than my phone or something since it's more tangible. Plus looking at my phone might lead me to other things on the internet.

 

As far as food I was thinking one way to start small is just add one snack during the day to add maybe 200-300 calories. Just haven't figured out what. I have actually been losing some weight which makes sense since I am working out more and not eating enough for a sedentary person, but it's still a bit discouraging.

 

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Update on me and a few areas for this week.

 

So far I have felt a bit more stable and calm this week than in the recent weeks. I went to work out with my trainer today and did pretty well. Still had a few instances where I was beating myself up for being weak, but they passed and I had a good workout I think. I have been exploring looking into some new activities or things to try out. I started getting more consistent with having a protein shake each day, but still lacking on the caloric intake pretty badly. Finances more or less the same.

 

I got over my "rejection" from that date I mentioned a little faster than I normally have and have been going back and re-reading a lot of various "self-help" or "self-improvement" type books that I have, trying to digest the information a little better. Also have gotten more diligent about my Japanese studies (this was something I took formally in college and have been working with a tutor here to brush up).

 

I am still having anxiety related to dating and career mostly. Career because I still feel stuck and unsure of direction (even after consulting with lots of people in different industries, etc.). Dating because I still have a lot of doubts about if I can form relationships. I have some dates lined up that seem promising on the surface level (attraction, mutual interest, etc.) but I often wonder if I am just too detached to form a romantic relationship. On a more hopeful note as I mentioned before is I have been more frequently considering trying to meet more women in real life rather than online dating (which is all I have experience with, never had any female friends either), but still unsure how to do that or where to do it. Especially as someone interested, to some extent, in both fitness and nerd stuff (hence my presence at this forum) I am not sure where to go to find that demographic. I also have a lot of doubts around just trying new things with the ulterior motive (in my mind) of meeting people. But most of the things I would do naturally (play Magic, study, etc.) don't really involve me meeting many women or other people at all.

[Harriet]

14 hours ago, Devout_Haruhiist said:

So far I have felt a bit more stable and calm this week than in the recent weeks. I went to work out with my trainer today and did pretty well. Still had a few instances where I was beating myself up for being weak, but they passed and I had a good workout I think.

 

Excellent, excellent.
 

14 hours ago, Devout_Haruhiist said:

I also have a lot of doubts around just trying new things with the ulterior motive (in my mind) of meeting people. But most of the things I would do naturally (play Magic, study, etc.) don't really involve me meeting many women or other people at all.

Ah, yes. Most of my interests have been solitary, which made it hard to meet people. What about classes on things you're interested in? I met some people at a fiction writing class and we agreed to meet up once a month and critique each others' work. Writing is usually solitary but we made it sociable. 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

6 hours ago, Harriet said:

 

Excellent, excellent.
 

Ah, yes. Most of my interests have been solitary, which made it hard to meet people. What about classes on things you're interested in? I met some people at a fiction writing class and we agreed to meet up once a month and critique each others' work. Writing is usually solitary but we made it sociable. 

I have thought about that, maybe some kind of writing thing (though I have never really written before). I did try a drawing class which was cool, but didn't really meet anyone there. I think I would also have a lot of awkwardness/confidence issues with "approaching" someone in a real setting, amongst other doubts.

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Just one more update. Might start a new challenge thread since this one is technically over.

 

Had a very promising date tonight that was fun. Fellow nerd, played a board game together, attractive, etc. Sadly though it seemed like it would lead to a 2nd date when talking, once we did post-date texts I got the same message I seem to often get about being nice, fun, handsome, but no chemistry/romantic spark. This seems to be a consistent problem for me.

[Scaly Freak]

On 6/27/2019 at 5:15 PM, Devout_Haruhiist said:

I have thought about that, maybe some kind of writing thing (though I have never really written before). I did try a drawing class which was cool, but didn't really meet anyone there. I think I would also have a lot of awkwardness/confidence issues with "approaching" someone in a real setting, amongst other doubts.

 

Have you looked at NaNoWriMo? It's a big non-profit that has local groups all over the country. I have joined my local groups on Facebook, and may eventually brave the great outside and meet with them at their regular events for writers.  

[Devout_Haruhiist]

5 hours ago, scalyfreak said:

 

Have you looked at NaNoWriMo? It's a big non-profit that has local groups all over the country. I have joined my local groups on Facebook, and may eventually brave the great outside and meet with them at their regular events for writers.  

I have not heard of it but I will check it out and see if they have a chapter here! Thanks!

Also since this challenge has ended I have shifted over to a new thread

[Jean]

On 6/27/2019 at 4:22 AM, Devout_Haruhiist said:

Dating because I still have a lot of doubts about if I can form relationships. I have some dates lined up that seem promising on the surface level (attraction, mutual interest, etc.) but I often wonder if I am just too detached to form a romantic relationship. On a more hopeful note as I mentioned before is I have been more frequently considering trying to meet more women in real life rather than online dating (which is all I have experience with, never had any female friends either), but still unsure how to do that or where to do it.

 

I've had my share of failed online dating and I have cousins who've met their husband there so both are possible. I find it important not to take rejections for myself: we tend to have way too high expectations from online dating, setting parameters for our "other one" that we wouldn't set on a slow, real life relationship build-up (like, second date for someone you didn't know at all is still very early in the relationship, yet we somehow think that we should already know by then if we want to build something or not with the other person).

 

Creating real life opportunities for dating could be a good thing. Let me know how it works out, I'm struggling with it too.