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Leafar the Lost

Why isn't there a Wizards Guild?

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I get how the other Guilds relate to the real world, but I think there should be a place for Wizards.  I really think we could find some real world exercises or other nutritional diets that could fit into a Wizard Guild.  It seems to me that the lack of a guild devoted to magic is really lacking in a place devoted to nerds and fitness.  What do you think?  Do you have ideas that could work? 

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I've seen photos of past "Camp NerdFitness" events and the NF staff wore t-shirts that read WIZARD on them. Maybe it's how the founders of this place had it in mind.

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9 hours ago, DarK_RaideR said:

I've seen photos of past "Camp NerdFitness" events and the NF staff wore t-shirts that read WIZARD on them. Maybe it's how the founders of this place had it in mind.

That sounds cool to me.  I was thinking about it today.  Maybe wizards are like the tech wizards today.  Technology is the same as magic.  

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I think that there are plenty of people who have studies/school and trying to survive that as part of their challenge. I would think a studies-focused guild as wizards would make a lot of sense.  *shrug*

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On 7/10/2019 at 2:47 AM, Leafar the Lost said:

Technology is the same as magic.

Arthur C. Clarke's third law states: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. By this, we all are wizards.

 

On the other hand - Guilds are made by various physical attributes / activities. Wizards wouldn't fit here too much as they mostly omit their physical development and instead focus on mind, willpower and knowledge. 

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Aramis, the whole mental part is the most important.  Not only should there be a Wizard's Guild, I state that its badly needed and Nerd Fitness will not become a true success unless it creates one.  

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I absolutely agree that all starts in the head. In my opinion it's more about self-discipline, rather than wisdom/knowledge. So Monks would be better representation. But again, Guilds here refer to physical activities. 

On 8/12/2019 at 2:04 AM, Teros said:

a studies-focused guild as wizards would make a lot of sense

What physical activity would be a staple of such guild? 

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18 hours ago, Leafar the Lost said:

Aramis, the whole mental part is the most important.  Not only should there be a Wizard's Guild, I state that its badly needed and Nerd Fitness will not become a true success unless it creates one.  

The Druids and the Rebels often involve focus on mental aspects of life and fitness. Many people spend a challenge or two with the Druids to get their minds clear, and the Rebels are becoming that as well. 

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1 hour ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

The Druids and the Rebels often involve focus on mental aspects of life and fitness. Many people spend a challenge or two with the Druids to get their minds clear, and the Rebels are becoming that as well. 

 

The Druid guild is the wizards guild. "Druid" is used almost interchangeably as the generic RPG magic-user role. (And, importantly for NF, is not a gendered term the way 'wizard' is, and stresses a general healthy outdoorsiness rather than too many all-nighters in the library falling asleep over your grimoire and breathing in poisonous cauldron fumes while being duped by daemons.)

 

The Druids are the explicitly more mentally focused guild. They are also the ones named "the RPG magic user of your party". They are the ones you're looking for. No need to reinvent a wheel that exists.

 

19 hours ago, Leafar the Lost said:

I state that its badly needed and Nerd Fitness will not become a true success unless it creates one.   

 

(Sentence removed by moderator.)

 

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Sarakingdom I would probably change the name of the Wizard's Guild to the Magician's Guild, which would be gender neutral.  I would also argue that Druid is not interchangeable with Magician, because that's not what is shown in the Tabletop Games like D&D.  I am a Nerd, like everyone else here, so I am not the only one who feels a Magician's Guild is needed.  In today's world technology has replaced magic, so it makes sense for a guild that is devoted exclusively to magic.  I firmly believe that NerdFitness is missing out on a whole new group of nerds who want to join a Magician's Guild.  Finally, I am not the only nerd on here who feels that way.  

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Hmm, I see you are very well fortified on your position. Okaaay... For the sake of the discussion - explain what type of physical activity would be staple (or mainstream) of this Magician's Guild? 

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5 hours ago, Leafar the Lost said:

 In today's world technology has replaced magic, so it makes sense for a guild that is devoted exclusively to magic.

Emphasis mine.

 

Part of the focus I can feel here (or maybe it's just that I am looking for it and single it out out of all the things going on here) is that we (I?) want to reconcile with our (my?) body. Sometimes, technology helps (steps/diet trackers among others) and sometimes it gives us the ways to be lazy (driving around town instead of walking/biking, elevators vs stairs, etc.). Maybe it's just me but I don't feel that a guild devoted entirely to techology would hit the balance needed to juggle mind and body toward our better selves.

 

Now, battlemages or other kinds of spellswords, I can feel but it feels a bit too sophisticated (as in: a multiclass) for me. I know druidic and arcane magic aren't the same but Druids fit the niche good enough for me.

 

Also, also, as a non-native, I must exclaim:

On 8/19/2019 at 5:01 PM, sarakingdom said:

is not a gendered term the way 'wizard' is

 

Wow, learning! I didn't know 'wizard' was gendered. What would be the feminine equivalent?

 

 

ETA:

On 8/18/2019 at 10:26 PM, Leafar the Lost said:

the whole mental part is the most important.

 

Warriors have quite a strong mental element attached to them: the warrior spirit, able to focus through combat, work through adversity, hone discipline... I guess I've always felt drawn more toward the fighty types rather than magic users but this whole aspect is a big appeal for me.

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8 minutes ago, Jean said:

Wow, learning! I didn't know 'wizard' was gendered. What would be the feminine equivalent? 

 

Commonly, "witch" is used. For instance, "Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry" is basically saying "Hogwarts School for Magical Ladies and Gentlemen". All the women are witches, all the men are wizards.

 

But in actual nuanced meaning, there isn't a direct feminine equivalent. Fantasy author Terry Pratchett actually gave a talk about this in the early 1980s, when he was writing a book called "Equal Rites" about exactly this lack of direct equivalent. One of the big running themes of his books, and particularly his treatment of witches and wizards, was how differently society values the same labor from men and women.

 

Let's talk about wizards and witches. There is a tendency to talk of them in one breath, as though they were simply different sexual labels for the same job. It isn't true. In the fantasy world there is no such thing as a male witch. Warlocks, I hear you cry, but it's true. Oh, I'll accept you can postulate them for a particular story, but I'm talking here about the general tendency. There certainly isn't such a thing as a female wizard.

 

Sorceress? Just a better class of witch. Enchantress? Just a witch with good legs. The fantasy world. in fact, is overdue for a visit from the Equal Opportunities people because, in the fantasy world, magic done by women is usually of poor quality, third-rate, negative stuff, while the wizards are usually cerebral, clever, powerful, and wise.

 

Strangely enough, that's also the case in this world. You don't have to believe in magic to notice that.

 

Wizards get to do a better class of magic, while witches give you warts.

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Aramis, the Magician's Guild would focus on technology to lose weight and get healthier.  I imagine these are the people who wear fitness trackers (magical items), go to a doctor to use weight loss medication (magical potions), get weight loss surgery (doctors=magicians) and other methods that can be called magic.  

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You didn't answered my question - what kind of PHYSICAL ACTIVITY would be the main focus of such Guild? Because all Guilds (even the most insightful one - Druids) here are constructed around some kind of physical activity. The Rebellion was designed this way, so let's stick to those rules. 

 

And about your explanation -  this will sound brutal, but - you say Magicians would be people who try to lose weight without actually working towards their goals, but instead relying on third party stuff to do all the work for them.

 

I know I'm exaggerating, but technology is only addition to the work every one of us puts into our own health, physique and well-being. No one lost weight just from wearing a fitbit. Many (or most) people here use some kind of technological gizmo to help them in their endeavors (fitbits, mobile apps to track food or log workouts), but they use it as support, not as something that defines them. People here define themselves by their actions, not their tools.

 

And "weight loss medication", "weight loss surgery"? Yes, there are surgeries that result in weight loss, like stomach resection or bariatric surgeries. But the reason behind such drastic surgery isn't weight loss alone. And when it is, it is performed on morbidly obese people. I wouldn't call this a way to go towards the weight loss. Rather last-dich effort to save ones life. 

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2 hours ago, Leafar the Lost said:

Aramis, the Magician's Guild would focus on technology to lose weight and get healthier.  I imagine these are the people who wear fitness trackers (magical items), go to a doctor to use weight loss medication (magical potions), get weight loss surgery (doctors=magicians) and other methods that can be called magic.  

 

But I don't think that answers the question of what type of exercises or workouts would be included. For example, I wear (and use!) my fitness tracker daily, but I don't feel that makes me a wizard. A lot of people use trackers on their phones for workouts, step counting or food. Those aren't specific to a guild the way that lifting weights is specific to warriors for example.

 

I really love the passion you have for a wizards guild existing. If this were just a nerd forum, I would totally back you up with pushing for it. But I think that without a fitness focus, it doesn't really seem built out enough to fit in with NerdFitness

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On 8/18/2019 at 4:26 PM, Leafar the Lost said:

Not only should there be a Wizard's Guild, I state that its badly needed

 

 

From time to time someone suggests the creation of a new guild on NF.   I always hand out the same quest:

 

Establish proof of concept first.  Create a Wizard group in the accountabilibuddies subforum.  Make it popular enough to justify it having its own subforum.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Leafar the Lost said:

go to a doctor to use weight loss medication (magical potions), get weight loss surgery (doctors=magicians) 

 

Holy sh--. I suspect it'll be a cold day in hell before NF promotes amphetamines and medically questionable elective surgery as a responsible fitness choice. A lot of people smoke or become bulimic to stay thin, but there's not a smoker's guild or an eating disorder guild, and very unlikely to be.

 

6 hours ago, aramis said:

People here define themselves by their actions, not their tools. 

 

That's pretty profound, actually. People are what they do, not what they own. Work, effort, and growth are all what we do, and not what we own. Defining effort or self-improvement by what you can exchange dollars for rather than what actions you actually take has some really significant side effects, and a very low practical success rate.

 

To be honest, this formulation of a magic user's guild sounds like it's centered around total passivity: "what can be done to me, so I don't have to do anything". It sounds like a magic guild in the sense of a wishful thinking guild, not a skillfull-wizardry guild.

 

(I mean, holy shit, pills and surgery. My mind is blown. I feel like I've just seen someone request an elf guild to focus on anorexia to lose weight and get healthier.)

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On 8/20/2019 at 11:14 PM, aramis said:

You didn't answered my question - what kind of PHYSICAL ACTIVITY would be the main focus of such Guild? Because all Guilds (even the most insightful one - Druids) here are constructed around some kind of physical activity.

This here is the heart of the answer, at least in my eyes. The existing Guilds are built around the idea of grouping people who focus on similar physical activities, in order to connect them with others on similar paths. Everyone, regardless of Guild affiliation (which, mind you, is not something you're forced to stick with) will research some fitness lore and use some tech, from scales, fitbits and apps to log their eating. I mean, we're on a forum on the Internet, for crying out loud, that's already a wizardly enough leap compared to your basic bro just pumping weight in a gym and only using the web to post gym selfies. That aside, the Accountability Buddies subforum has seen several groups formed around all sorts of things, from creative types and artists to people who want to keep each other accountable during exam seasons, but we've never had a Bard or Wizard Guild per se. NerdFitness is not an attempt to accurately turn D&d or anything else into a fitness thing.

 

On 8/21/2019 at 5:53 AM, sarakingdom said:

(I mean, holy shit, pills and surgery. My mind is blown. I feel like I've just seen someone request an elf guild to focus on anorexia to lose weight and get healthier.)

I too, am worried of where this discussion is going. Don't think anyone wants to advocate such methods for weight loss, plus the Rules of the Rebellion explicitly state:

 

#3. We train as naturally as possible.

When we train for adventure, we do so by preparing our bodies with real-world movements! We don’t use machines; we focus on movements that recruit multiple muscle groups and efficiently set us up to be antifragile.

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5 hours ago, DarK_RaideR said:

I too, am worried of where this discussion is going. Don't think anyone wants to advocate such methods for weight loss, plus the Rules of the Rebellion explicitly state:

 

#3. We train as naturally as possible.

When we train for adventure, we do so by preparing our bodies with real-world movements! We don’t use machines; we focus on movements that recruit multiple muscle groups and efficiently set us up to be antifragile.

 

The direction worries me also. Also wanted to reiterate that we are a Fitness site, not just weight loss. While many of us do have goals of losing or maintaining weight it is not the only, or in many cases primary, focus.

 

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I would like to encourage everyone to please be careful with the language you are using to describe bariatric surgery and people who choose to have these types of surgeries.

Although it is not part of the NF focus, does not mean that it is not a useful tool for many folks. It has one of the highest long term success rates for weight loss and is a catalyst for many people that leads to permanent healthy lifestyle changes. 


Some of the comments here may be shameful or embarassing, not to mention damaging or harmful, for those who have had the surgery or are considering the surgery. This is flirting into fat shaming territory, which we do not tolerate here.

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1 hour ago, miss_marissa said:

I would like to encourage everyone to please be careful with the language you are using to describe bariatric surgery and people who choose to have these types of surgeries. 

 

You're absolutely right, and I apologise. In the context, I was not considering the rationally made decision between a person and their doctor, and was focusing on the magical weight loss surgery.

 

I do, on a scientific evidence level, have some deep concerns about bariatric surgery (namely, the vast harm it does to nutrient absorption and metabolism, and the confusing evidence about whether the efficacy is the surgery itself or the fasting/macronutrient shift/calorie reduction regimen of the recovery, rendering the surgery actually optional in the process while simultaneously very harmful to health). If my words were harsh, they're not aimed at the people who get the surgery, who are using the best evidence they have to make a careful health decision, but are about the medical research and its interpreters not having done what I consider to be due diligence on collecting and interpreting that evidence.

 

My feeling is that the presentation of that evidence by doctors to the patient is often grounded in fatphobia, the feeling that even a treatment they can't fully justify as not being harmful is better than letting a patient be fat. Fatphobia in the medical profession is well studied; fat patients tend to receive less good care, and have a far greater rate of serious health problems being written off as "you're fat, lose weight," when they should be diagnosing cancer and so on. I will certainly not weigh in on the decision made between a doctor and patient - that's sacrosanct, because they're dealing with factors that are very private and doing the best they can, often in difficult circumstances. It's the same with any controversial treatment. But I also believe the medical establishment frequently ignores the impact on the actual health of the patient due to fatphobia, and overprescribes without making clear the trade-offs. So I'm actually pushing back on it from a place of wanting to push against a trend of fat shaming and fatphobia that has very tangible medical costs to people who are overweight.

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On 8/22/2019 at 3:43 AM, DarK_RaideR said:

your basic bro just pumping weight in a gym and only using the web to post gym selfies

 

Connor Franta GIF - Connor Franta Attacked GIFs

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