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KB Girl and the fight for women's rights


KB Girl

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On 9/28/2019 at 6:11 AM, Mad Hatter said:
On 9/28/2019 at 12:10 AM, KB Girl said:

We also discussed bracing (how we teach midline stability) vs hollowing (how they teach it), which was a little controversial..

Sounds interesting, would you care to elaborate? :) 

Sure! 

Hollowing is taught by physical therapists and many fitness instructors with the cue "draw your belly button to your spine" or something similar. You've probably heard it before. I'm not sure exactly how this came to be the way it's taught in schools and accepted as a standard... but serious weightlifters have always known this isn't the best way to stabilise/protect the spine, instead, they brace. 

The term bracing was introduced by Stuart McGill, pretty famous physical therapist with a different (and very effective) approach to all sorts of back pain. Bracing is basically activating the entire abdominal wall instead of just the transversus abdominus. Bracing is cued differently, for example blow out three times in fast succesion and hold your breath after the third, 99% you're now braced properly. You can also do the valsalva maneuvre (breathing out without letting any air escape).. or you can imagine what you'll do when someone is about to punch you in the gut x) 

 

The last couple of years quite a bit of research has come out comparing the two, overwhelmingly with the conclusion that bracing is a lot more effective than hollowing. Funny thing is that when you visit a PT and they ask you to do the hollowing and you brace instead and they check you, they'll think you're doing it 'right', because it will also activate the transversus abdominus, just better and not only that. 

Unfortunately it's going to take 10-20 more years for everyone to catch on and before they change what's taught in schools. Slow moving machines that. 

It's important to me partly because postpartum women have to relearn how to use their abdominal muscles and are then usually taught hollowing, which.. well.. it can cause all sorts of problems, most prevalent being lower back pain. And women are more likely (10-15%?) than men to have chronic lower back pain. 

 

For example; 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3944309/

 

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That's very interesting! As a kid, I was also taught to hollow during gymnastics, but at some point you automatically start to brace (especially if you get poked in your belly regularly to see if you are properly braced). Bracing comes automatically to me now during exercise, although I should still practice it more for playing the clarinet. Is there any reason why the PT world is moving this slowly? The few that I had before all asked me to brace, even the ones that couldn't help me with lower back pain. Have I just been lucky in that regard?

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On 9/27/2019 at 4:10 PM, KB Girl said:

We also discussed bracing (how we teach midline stability) vs hollowing (how they teach it), which was a little controversial.. but I'm glad we did.

 

 

I want to hear more about this too please. I'm basically starting from scratch in the midline stability department. It stinks, and thoroughly messes with my climbing.

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While we have to stay away from the desert, we can always ride our bikes.

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3 hours ago, Waanie said:

That's very interesting! As a kid, I was also taught to hollow during gymnastics, but at some point you automatically start to brace (especially if you get poked in your belly regularly to see if you are properly braced). Bracing comes automatically to me now during exercise, although I should still practice it more for playing the clarinet. Is there any reason why the PT world is moving this slowly? The few that I had before all asked me to brace, even the ones that couldn't help me with lower back pain. Have I just been lucky in that regard?

Hollowing in gymnastics is still essential because all of gymnastics movements come from dynamic changes in body shape -- hollow is the opposite of arch and moving between the two generates a LOT of force, which is necessary for so many skills. :) Gymnasts also practice bracing and other stability work that isn't reliant on the idea that you have to be hollow to be stable. 

 

I can't imagine trying to use a hollow body for any kind of stability outside of gymnastics skills though. That doesn't sound useful at all for lifting or kettlebells! 

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Interesting. I struggle a lot when I try and just hold hollow body using just the transverse muscles, and most the time I end p bracing. I always thought I wasn't quite getting something. Now I will just brace.:)

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On 9/12/2019 at 4:21 PM, KB Girl said:

Oh I should let you read the 'study' they published 4 years ago that was basically an opinion piece on that women shouldn't lift 2 bells because otherwise their uterus would fall out.

 

Ok I know I'm super late to this game but wtf is the fascination with women's uteri (hush, I know) falling out???

 

Trains: https://www.simplemost.com/early-transportation-fears-included-womens-uteruses-falling/

Sports: https://www.outsideonline.com/1783996/myth-falling-uterus (bonus points for the quote "thus defeating a woman’s true purpose in life, i.e., the bringing forth of strong children.”)

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Thanks! Love the knowledge bombs. I wonder if some of the misconception might not come from the ballet world? Somehow ballet posture has become what's universally considered good posture (complete garbage of course) and there I believe the focus is more on a slight hollowing, since bracing is ugly. I think it's a lot more subtle and technical if you do it well, but there are many teachers propagating poor language. Just an idea!

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On 10/1/2019 at 2:31 PM, Waanie said:

That's very interesting! As a kid, I was also taught to hollow during gymnastics, but at some point you automatically start to brace (especially if you get poked in your belly regularly to see if you are properly braced). Bracing comes automatically to me now during exercise, although I should still practice it more for playing the clarinet. Is there any reason why the PT world is moving this slowly? The few that I had before all asked me to brace, even the ones that couldn't help me with lower back pain. Have I just been lucky in that regard?

Yes you have been lucky! 

All large institutions move slowly.. evidence has to be overwhelming before policy is changed and even when it is then it takes a while to reach every branch of people involved. It's the same in my field (dietician), there are still dieticians out there who believe more than 2 eggs a week is bad for you. 

 

22 hours ago, DaemonCorax said:

I want to hear more about this too please. I'm basically starting from scratch in the midline stability department. It stinks, and thoroughly messes with my climbing.

I'd focus on exercises that require you to not move the midline at first, things like dead bugs (in progressions!) and the beast crawl, or if that's too much to ask right now just start on hands and knees and try lifting knees, then lifting a hand or a foot. 

 

20 hours ago, Elastigirl said:

Interesting. I struggle a lot when I try and just hold hollow body using just the transverse muscles, and most the time I end p bracing. I always thought I wasn't quite getting something. Now I will just brace.:)

Just brace! :)

 

17 hours ago, Manarelle said:

 

Ok I know I'm super late to this game but wtf is the fascination with women's uteri (hush, I know) falling out???

 

Trains: https://www.simplemost.com/early-transportation-fears-included-womens-uteruses-falling/

Sports: https://www.outsideonline.com/1783996/myth-falling-uterus (bonus points for the quote "thus defeating a woman’s true purpose in life, i.e., the bringing forth of strong children.”)

Hah! I didn't know about those! brilliant. Sad, but hilarious. 

 

15 hours ago, Sloth the Enduring said:

Interesting discussion. Stuart McGill and his bracing was a huge part of my back recovery. When the expensive PT, who wasn’t doing me any good anyway, didn’t know who he was I quit going.

His work is amazing :) Glad you found him when you needed him! 

 

8 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Thanks! Love the knowledge bombs. I wonder if some of the misconception might not come from the ballet world? Somehow ballet posture has become what's universally considered good posture (complete garbage of course) and there I believe the focus is more on a slight hollowing, since bracing is ugly. I think it's a lot more subtle and technical if you do it well, but there are many teachers propagating poor language. Just an idea!

Oh yes the posture problems x) 

No actually I do know the story of how hollowing came to be the standard, it's just a boring story of someone misinterpreting data and drawing the wrong conclusions. But the spread of it probably wasn't helped by ballet and gymnastic specific hollowing. 

 

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15 hours ago, KB Girl said:

No actually I do know the story of how hollowing came to be the standard, it's just a boring story of someone misinterpreting data and drawing the wrong conclusions.

Oops. It's a little surprising nobody spotted it and started objecting. Or did they but was it too late at that point?

 

On 10/1/2019 at 10:30 PM, Manarelle said:

 

Ok I know I'm super late to this game but wtf is the fascination with women's uteri (hush, I know) falling out???

 

Trains: https://www.simplemost.com/early-transportation-fears-included-womens-uteruses-falling/

Sports: https://www.outsideonline.com/1783996/myth-falling-uterus (bonus points for the quote "thus defeating a woman’s true purpose in life, i.e., the bringing forth of strong children.”)

GEEZ! :rolleyes:

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19 hours ago, KB Girl said:

It's the same in my field (dietician), there are still dieticians out there who believe more than 2 eggs a week is bad for you. 

The Voedingscentrum (government advice centre about food) is also moving extremely slowly, and also advises at most 2 eggs per week (unless you're vegetarian... then you can eat 3-4), maybe they get it from there? Apparently, none of my meals are healthy because they contain either too much salt, too much saturated fat or too much sugar/white grains. While I'm sure it's possible to follow the official advice, it feels extremely restrictive. I guess that means that dieticians are still needed, especially to make individual meal plans that can realistically be adhered to ;). (Not to say that my meals are perfect, but even the healthy-seeming meals are usually wrong because you're allowed almost no salt or animal fat at all)

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7 hours ago, Waanie said:

The Voedingscentrum (government advice centre about food) is also moving extremely slowly, and also advises at most 2 eggs per week

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13 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Oops. It's a little surprising nobody spotted it and started objecting. Or did they but was it too late at that point?

Yes, it was already very wide spread by that point.. 

 

10 hours ago, Waanie said:

The Voedingscentrum (government advice centre about food) is also moving extremely slowly, and also advises at most 2 eggs per week (unless you're vegetarian... then you can eat 3-4), maybe they get it from there? Apparently, none of my meals are healthy because they contain either too much salt, too much saturated fat or too much sugar/white grains. While I'm sure it's possible to follow the official advice, it feels extremely restrictive. I guess that means that dieticians are still needed, especially to make individual meal plans that can realistically be adhered to ;). (Not to say that my meals are perfect, but even the healthy-seeming meals are usually wrong because you're allowed almost no salt or animal fat at all)

The voedingscentrum has the impossible job of giving advice to the average dutch person, while really the people with a standard diet are by now at least 50+ years old. These new generations are far too much of a mix of different ethnic cuisines or have completely different patterns due to a complete lack of habits or because they've been influenced by one diet fat or another. 

Being a dietician myself, I think that the education should be split into two directions after the first general year.. one branch should focus on pathology and disease and should end up working in hospitals or elderly care.. and the other branch should focus FAR FAR more on behaviour and how to change behaviour and all the different ways people eat nowadays. 

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Update time.. I've been here but I haven't actually updated since last Friday. 

 

Saturday-Monday

Were a total disaster. There was not enough sleep, no training, no cooking, hardly any outside time, short tempers.. ugh. 

 

Tuesday

Was a good day at work, I also cooked (couscous with chicken, pumpkin, raisins and lots of other veggies). I did a little bit of moving, went for a longer bike ride and did the warming up twice. I was still very low energy so that was the most I could get myself to do. 

 

Wednesday

It was another rough day to be honest, there were tears over the smallest reasons- I'm blaming the hormones. But, I did cook (pumpkin soup with garlic bread) and we went to the park, cleaned up a little... did some laundry..

 

Thursday

I managed to sleep for 12 hours, which made this a much better day. Before work I went to the park and grocery shopping with Emma, I made that shredded beetroot and carrot salad with feta cheese that @Waanie linked and I started up the meat that needed to slow cook for 6+ hours. I just had some and it was very good. 

Then at work first thing I did was my own training. I've been working on managing the hip pain which was a bit worse today so it was only light squats (5x8 at 35kg) and deadlifts (5x5 at 50kg) plus a bit of stretching. It was a busy but good day at work. 

 

Random things; 

we found out last week that the baby is a girl, which is great, I like the idea of a house full of girls and Jaap. 

- the pumpkin, leek, apples and beetroot were all from our garden and I've been really enjoying the cooking with our own produce this year AND the effort to have zero food waste has also been a lot more fun and satisfying than I expected it to be. 

 

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Current challenge: KB Girl dusts off her competition skills

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On 10/3/2019 at 10:11 PM, KB Girl said:

 I like the idea of a house full of girls and Jaap. 

 

:D

 

On 10/3/2019 at 10:11 PM, KB Girl said:

the pumpkin, leek, apples and beetroot were all from our garden and I've been really enjoying the cooking with our own produce this year AND the effort to have zero food waste has also been a lot more fun and satisfying than I expected it to be. 

 

I love this. I'm struggling with my aromatic herbs :lol:but yeah I hope one day I can do a bit more than that.

 

Sorry to hear about the roller-coaster, not sure there is much you can do really, you seem to be handling it well though :)

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I love cooking with stuff that is from our garden. This year my effort at zero waste made my friends happy as I gave our abundance of cucumbers and apples

Another daughter- how sweet!

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On 10/3/2019 at 9:05 PM, KB Girl said:

The voedingscentrum has the impossible job of giving advice to the average dutch person, while really the people with a standard diet are by now at least 50+ years old. These new generations are far too much of a mix of different ethnic cuisines or have completely different patterns due to a complete lack of habits or because they've been influenced by one diet fat or another. 

Being a dietician myself, I think that the education should be split into two directions after the first general year.. one branch should focus on pathology and disease and should end up working in hospitals or elderly care.. and the other branch should focus FAR FAR more on behaviour and how to change behaviour and all the different ways people eat nowadays. 

Fair enough, I know some people of our generation who eat two hot meals per day, or skip breakfast, or completely lack a rhythm. Most people I know still eat 3-4 meals per day, but that might be because I'm totally immersed in the nerd-bubble. I think the behavioural change articles of the voedingscentrum actually work (at least for me), and I do like their commercials as well. The split you propose would be interesting, especially with obesity and related illnesses increasing.

 

On 10/3/2019 at 10:11 PM, KB Girl said:

we found out last week that the baby is a girl, which is great, I like the idea of a house full of girls and Jaap. 

Congratulations :D.

 

On 10/3/2019 at 10:11 PM, KB Girl said:

the pumpkin, leek, apples and beetroot were all from our garden and I've been really enjoying the cooking with our own produce this year AND the effort to have zero food waste has also been a lot more fun and satisfying than I expected it to be. 

Cool! Those are very versatile vegetables as well, you can make so much tasty stuff with it :).

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Don't actually feel much like updating, because I feel I've been in a bit of a challenge funk.. I haven't paid much attention to my goals, mostly I'm just getting by, living day to day... which isn't too bad, it's ok to be mild to myself right now and take extra rest where I can and make some peace with not being able to do all the things.... but it's also not improving my mood at all! 

 

So I'm making a little goals list here for this week; 

- track this weeks cooking and outside time

- write or work on photo albums at least 3x this week

- fold the four baskets of laundry that are sitting in my room right now

- at least get started on packing away my normal clothes 

- start a list of home improvements I'd like to get done before February

 

I won't put anything in there about training, because my hips have been seriously bothering me again to the point where walking was painful, so I just have to see how it goes... 

but.. maybe at the very least hang every time I'm in the gym. 

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I like your plan of little goals for the week. Great idea to work on the photo albums, it will only get harder to keep with once you have two.:)

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On 10/3/2019 at 4:11 PM, KB Girl said:

It was another rough day to be honest, there were tears over the smallest reasons- I'm blaming the hormones. But, I did cook (pumpkin soup with garlic bread) and we went to the park, cleaned up a little... did some laundry..

Hormones are definitely involved!

 

On 10/3/2019 at 4:11 PM, KB Girl said:

Thursday

I managed to sleep for 12 hours, which made this a much better day.

Amazing.

 

On 10/3/2019 at 4:11 PM, KB Girl said:

Random things; 

we found out last week that the baby is a girl, which is great, I like the idea of a house full of girls and Jaap. 

- the pumpkin, leek, apples and beetroot were all from our garden and I've been really enjoying the cooking with our own produce this year AND the effort to have zero food waste has also been a lot more fun and satisfying than I expected it to be. 

I looove both of these. <333

 

On 10/7/2019 at 11:32 AM, KB Girl said:

So I'm making a little goals list here for this week; 

- track this weeks cooking and outside time

- write or work on photo albums at least 3x this week

- fold the four baskets of laundry that are sitting in my room right now

- at least get started on packing away my normal clothes 

- start a list of home improvements I'd like to get done before February

It's a good list. 

 

On 10/7/2019 at 11:32 AM, KB Girl said:

but.. maybe at the very least hang every time I'm in the gym. 

Sure, why not? Get some hang time. :) Decompresssss.

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I like your list, it is all over the place! (in a good way)

 

Congrats and I hope the hips feel better soon.

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