• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Zaethe

Chronic fatigue anyone?

Recommended Posts

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one here with it!

 

I struggle to fall asleep because of joint pains, but once I'm out I sleep about 11 hours a day.  And maintaining sleep hygiene only does so much.  I've become that guy who can fall asleep anywhere.  I fell asleep at the dining table at the end of a meal with family a couple of weeks ago, and that is not a comfy place to be.

 

So folkeronis, are there any nutritional "plans" you've found that help with fatigue?  I've heard some rumors about keto, and I've heard about the tiger blood phase of whole30, but nothing more solid than that. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, I've had trouble with fatigue for about twenty years, but I don't have fibromyalgia or any concrete diagnosis. Just fatigue (and depression). I can say I feel worse when I eat a lot of junk, especially refined carbs. I feel moderately better on less processed, home-cooked diet, but not vastly improved. I've recently switched to a paleo-ish diet (no dairy or gluten, but some legumes and occasional tofu; mostly meat, fish, eggs, veg, fruit and beans, plus dried beef liver tablets, some fermented foods and vitamin D). Powerlifting helped moderately, as did walking and martial arts. Fixing my sleep helped a bit. Not drinking alcohol helps a bit.

So yeah, there was no magic bullet for me. The biggest thing was lifting. But I started from a very, very sedentary starting point, so if you're already active it probably won't do the same for you. Paleo-ish also hasn't cured me yet, but I've only been doing it for a month or so. If, theoretically, my fatigue were partially due to deficiencies or inflammation, I might expect it to take longer. 

 

Could the "tiger blood" people talk about with restrictive diets actually be adrenaline or some energising mild stress from calorie restriction? Or do you suspect it's something more sustainable? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I experience significantly different energy levels depending on my protein intake; generally if I drop below 0.8g/lb of bodyweight, I really start to feel it. I also find that I feel better when I regularly eat berries (usually frozen), but that could easily be psychosomatic. Fasting can often exacerbate poor sleep quality. As Harriet mentioned, regular exercise definitely has the potential to help, as does limiting added sugars in your diet. If you're looking for some 'data backed' (I use the term loosely for nutritional sciences) ideas: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5434800/

 

It's also not a bad idea to get some tests done (if you live in a part of the world where that won't bankrupt you) to rule out any specific hormonal/chemical challenges that could be causing that kind of extreme fatigue. Falling asleep at the kitchen table and sleeping 11+hrs/night is enough of an impact on your daily life that I'd be chatting with a doctor, just in case. You might also look at a sleep clinic to rule out stuff like sleep apnea (which would DEFINITELY impact your sleep quality, but you might not realise) or other underlying conditions that can affect sleep.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Harriet said:

Hey, I've had trouble with fatigue for about twenty years, but I don't have fibromyalgia or any concrete diagnosis. Just fatigue (and depression). I can say I feel worse when I eat a lot of junk, especially refined carbs. I feel moderately better on less processed, home-cooked diet, but not vastly improved. I've recently switched to a paleo-ish diet (no dairy or gluten, but some legumes and occasional tofu; mostly meat, fish, eggs, veg, fruit and beans, plus dried beef liver tablets, some fermented foods and vitamin D). Powerlifting helped moderately, as did walking and martial arts. Fixing my sleep helped a bit. Not drinking alcohol helps a bit.

So yeah, there was no magic bullet for me. The biggest thing was lifting. But I started from a very, very sedentary starting point, so if you're already active it probably won't do the same for you. Paleo-ish also hasn't cured me yet, but I've only been doing it for a month or so. If, theoretically, my fatigue were partially due to deficiencies or inflammation, I might expect it to take longer. 

 

Could the "tiger blood" people talk about with restrictive diets actually be adrenaline or some energising mild stress from calorie restriction? Or do you suspect it's something more sustainable? 

 

Yeah my big problem is that with my diagnosis, high or even moderate activity levels are a general no-go for quite some time, if ever.  So I'm going to see primary benefits to tackling the fatigue through dietary changes.

 

Tiger blood is a whole30 specific thing, they're referring to the sudden uptake of energy once the sugar and refined foods have detoxed out of the system, so it's not really a sustainable thing no.  Just something I'd heard about :P 

 

1 minute ago, Defining said:

I experience significantly different energy levels depending on my protein intake; generally if I drop below 0.8g/lb of bodyweight, I really start to feel it. I also find that I feel better when I regularly eat berries (usually frozen), but that could easily be psychosomatic. Fasting can often exacerbate poor sleep quality. As Harriet mentioned, regular exercise definitely has the potential to help, as does limiting added sugars in your diet. If you're looking for some 'data backed' (I use the term loosely for nutritional sciences) ideas: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5434800/

 

It's also not a bad idea to get some tests done (if you live in a part of the world where that won't bankrupt you) to rule out any specific hormonal/chemical challenges that could be causing that kind of extreme fatigue. Falling asleep at the kitchen table and sleeping 11+hrs/night is enough of an impact on your daily life that I'd be chatting with a doctor, just in case. You might also look at a sleep clinic to rule out stuff like sleep apnea (which would DEFINITELY impact your sleep quality, but you might not realise) or other underlying conditions that can affect sleep.

 

 

The chronic fatigue is a side diagnosis/co-morbidity to my g-hsd (generalised hypermobility spectrum disorder).  We've covered the bases on it and the general consensus of GP + specialist is "just see what happens" which is always the best thing.

 

The fasting could be an issue, I have a tendency to only really eat once, maybe twice a day.  I also have allergies that I've shown no actual histamine response to, so haven't bothered cutting them out of my diet.  After reading that link (very informative!)  it might be worth just straight up going the full haul and doing an elimination diet, seeing what helps and what hinders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Zaethe said:

The chronic fatigue is a side diagnosis/co-morbidity to my g-hsd (generalised hypermobility spectrum disorder).  We've covered the bases on it and the general consensus of GP + specialist is "just see what happens" which is always the best thing.

Feel free to tell me off if I'm asking questions that are too personal, but have they ruled out sleep apnea and/or sleep disordered breathing?

 

Also, the obvious/boring stuff like avoiding caffeine & other stimulants, avoiding alcohol (though apparently marijuana can help sleep? huh), and staying hydrated are helpful, though I imagine that you've covered a lot of that when working on your sleep hygiene.

 

8 minutes ago, Zaethe said:

The fasting could be an issue, I have a tendency to only really eat once, maybe twice a day.  I also have allergies that I've shown no actual histamine response to, so haven't bothered cutting them out of my diet.  After reading that link (very informative!)  it might be worth just straight up going the full haul and doing an elimination diet, seeing what helps and what hinders.

The timing of when you eat can also have some impact; for example, eating within an hour of waking up with a larger breakfast that has ~25g+ of protein can 'kick start' energy levels for some folks. Also, erring towards 'carbs in the morning, fats in the evening' can help for some. Not sure re: the allergies, but I do know that if you eat right before sleeping, digestion can affect your sleep quality as well, so if at all possible it's best to stop eating at least an hour or two before bed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Defining said:

Feel free to tell me off if I'm asking questions that are too personal, but have they ruled out sleep apnea and/or sleep disordered breathing?

 

Also, the obvious/boring stuff like avoiding caffeine & other stimulants, avoiding alcohol (though apparently marijuana can help sleep? huh), and staying hydrated are helpful, though I imagine that you've covered a lot of that when working on your sleep hygiene.

 

The timing of when you eat can also have some impact; for example, eating within an hour of waking up with a larger breakfast that has ~25g+ of protein can 'kick start' energy levels for some folks. Also, erring towards 'carbs in the morning, fats in the evening' can help for some. Not sure re: the allergies, but I do know that if you eat right before sleeping, digestion can affect your sleep quality as well, so if at all possible it's best to stop eating at least an hour or two before bed.

 

Nah you're fine, but yeah there's no sleep disorder there beyond restless leg syndrome.  Sleep trials are...interesting.

 

My big issue with sleeping at night is the joint pain.  The nutshell version is that my connective tissue isn't strong enough to hold everything in place, so I expend a ton of energy holding myself together throughout the day, and then when I try to relax to sleep I'm not holding everything in place, so things tend to....go on adventures.  Tonight my toes don't want to stay where they're supposed to be, neither do my kneecaps.  Physiotherapy to help me establish a stronger core is the primary plan for that, as well as medication (which I can't afford to fill the prescription for just yet, so that one's on me)  my big concern is just the energy levels.  I can't currently do anything about the amount of energy I'm expending, so my alternative is to try and boost my energy intake, and maximize that within a decent calorie budget, so I'm not eating like 6000cal a day :P  

 

That's interesting because I don't generally eat breakfast.  I'll have to give that one a try and see what happens.  I can't drink because of some of my meds, so I'm good on that front at least!  And yeah marijuana is good for sleep!  If I could afford it I'd sleep a whole lot better, I've done that one in the past.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for interrupting, but I have a question about

On 12/18/2019 at 12:18 AM, Defining said:

'carbs in the morning, fats in the evening'

 

That's the notion I stumbled across earlier, but couldn't find any science behind it. Quick google search throws lots of fat-losing methods including this approach or entirely opposite... so I'm a bit lost. Can you elaborate? 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, aramis said:

Sorry for interrupting, but I have a question about

 

That's the notion I stumbled across earlier, but couldn't find any science behind it. Quick google search throws lots of fat-losing methods including this approach or entirely opposite... so I'm a bit lost. Can you elaborate? 

 

Totally not interrupting! :) So, this is more along the lines of extrapolated theory rather than having a good quality study to back it up - going back to carb timing strategies to mostly eat carbohydrates around time of energy needs & exertion. It also has to do with the insulin response to different foods, and the idea that fat is less 'stimulating' than carbs. You could also make an argument that fat digests slower, and might be a better 'nighttime fuel'. But conversely there have been a few studies that could potentially show that carb timing really doesn't matter at all, that eating earlier might help with fat loss, and/or that eating most of your carbs in one big evening bolus can actually reduce day-time hunger. Frankly, as in most things to do with nutritional science, there is no hard & fast answer, and even the studies have 'murky' results and sometimes even conflicting conclusions. Adding exercise into the equation mucks up the nutritional studies even more!

 

At the end of the day, the best option is to experiment to see what works best for your own body. For example, I find that a carb-heavy meal after 6pm can often negatively impact my sleep quality - but I know others who say that they feel MUCH better having a granola bar right before bed. Ultimately, most nutrient timing considerations are more nuanced than is worth looking at for the average individual; the ones who might best benefit from that kind of exacting analysis are typically professional/high level athletes

 

TL;DR - eat when/what you like, focus mostly on whole foods if you can, get in enough protein and veg, experiment and record how YOU as an individual react to different parameters, and don't forget to have fun ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.