Salinger's twenty eighth challenge!

[aramis]

15 minutes ago, Aquarii said:

When you consistently under eat for long periods of time, the body slows down your metabolism to protect itself. This can cause a lot of issues

Couldn't say it better (I actually tried right now, but Aquarii was faster  )

 

49 minutes ago, Salinger said:

it feels impossible to get to 2000 without eating crap

I told you already - just get those calories. For now, we need more energy to work with. Quality food will come later. If you want to eat good, real food - great. If you need to top it with a cookie to get those kcals - so be it (for now). Fruit or cheese would be better, but for a week - everything goes.

 

49 minutes ago, Salinger said:

Saturday and Sunday LAST WEEK

So, you hit gym two times and since then... nada? Wasn't there any walks or something?

 

Anyway

 

Considering exercising - do you prefer exercising at home, gym or some outside activity? All have it's pros and cons,

* At home you are safe from other people staring, but it's easiest to skip workout or postpone it till it's too late.

* Gym has huge advantage - when you are there, you'll do something, anything, just for the sake of not wasting your money and time. On a down side - comparing yourself to others.

* Outside activity (park, field etc) - fresher (in theory) air than indoors, mostly nice surroundings, "you already left home so do something" motivation. OTOH people staring, old ladies pointing fingers, unpredictable weather.

to name a few, so I don't want to tell you what to do. But we will start slow (remember? Baby Steps!), so pick what you want to try and we will work with it.

[Salinger]

I’ve tracked today, and made it to 1900!! So I’ll make sure I stick to that

 

exercise, I prefer the gym for reasons you state !!x

[Salinger]

And no, no walks. I’m being serious when I say I do nothing except sleep because I’m so tired, and sit and work very hard but on my laptop... !!  

[Echoceanic]

2 hours ago, Salinger said:

Holy crap... i did the NF calorie thing. Says my TDEE is 2498 😮 i checked on another site and was basically the same....

 

Aaand there's why you're tired.

 

Easy ideas to get extra stuff in you - use more oil than you do, eat things that are easier to digest so you can eat more of em (so more calorie dense foods). I add seeds to everything - flax, pumpkin, chia, etc (nuts are expensive here but if they're not where you're from, there ya go). Shredded soft chicken and minced meat is easier than a steak and you can eat more. Don't be afraid to snack, if you have a small stomach try a little food but a lot of times in a day. Switch to full fat milk if you can and aren't drinking it already. No water with meals. Peanut butter. Bananas instead of apples. Darker veggies (basically less of those that are mostly water).  @aramis can add/check what I've just said if I'm off base (this is mostly from experience and that one time I tried to get into a calorie surplus).

[Salinger]

19 minutes ago, Echoceanic said:

 

Aaand there's why you're tired.

 

Easy ideas to get extra stuff in you - use more oil than you do, eat things that are easier to digest so you can eat more of em (so more calorie dense foods). I add seeds to everything - flax, pumpkin, chia, etc (nuts are expensive here but if they're not where you're from, there ya go). Shredded soft chicken and minced meat is easier than a steak and you can eat more. Don't be afraid to snack, if you have a small stomach try a little food but a lot of times in a day. Switch to full fat milk if you can and aren't drinking it already. No water with meals. Peanut butter. Bananas instead of apples. Darker veggies (basically less of those that are mostly water).  @aramis can add/check what I've just said if I'm off base (this is mostly from experience and that one time I tried to get into a calorie surplus).

 

I also think its psychological with me, im scared to eat  a lot cos i am desperate to lose weight. 

 

I dont really like seeds  but almonds are ok? Might get some of them. 

 

Peanut butter is a good one, just looked and that adds A LOT of calories. Bananas too...

 

Thanks Echo xx

[Maggie-Miau]

Heyoo, friend! I've had some catching up to do here. Lots of good stuff going on even in the midst of this rough time. I'm glad you're still keeping up the fight, Sal!

 

Something to keep in mind when you get the feeling that the application, or doing the good things, is pointless: if you do it, you might be rejected or otherwise not get the result you want, whatever that might be. But you could also be accepted, make some progress, get that result you're looking for. Whereas if you don't do it, that guarantees not getting it. ( Frustration along the way is totally fine of course and your feelings are Valid)

 

1 hour ago, Salinger said:

I also think its psychological with me, im scared to eat  a lot cos i am desperate to lose weight. 

I think i remember your personal trainer making a similar suggestion, to eat more, too, so now that's two different sources. You can be the third source by giving yourself permission to eat enough. You deserve to have the energy you need, and you deserve to feel good in general. ❤️

[Salinger]

20 minutes ago, Maggie-Miau said:

Heyoo, friend! I've had some catching up to do here. Lots of good stuff going on even in the midst of this rough time. I'm glad you're still keeping up the fight, Sal!

 

Something to keep in mind when you get the feeling that the application, or doing the good things, is pointless: if you do it, you might be rejected or otherwise not get the result you want, whatever that might be. But you could also be accepted, make some progress, get that result you're looking for. Whereas if you don't do it, that guarantees not getting it. ( Frustration along the way is totally fine of course and your feelings are Valid)

 

I think i remember your personal trainer making a similar suggestion, to eat more, too, so now that's two different sources. You can be the third source by giving yourself permission to eat enough. You deserve to have the energy you need, and you deserve to feel good in general. ❤️

 

Thanks Mia, im still fighting, as best i can...!

 

You are right of course, if i dont do the application then i definitely dont get accepted. 

 

Yes actually, he did tell me to eat more yes. Ok...permission granted hahah thank you xx

[Salinger]

Hi all. 4.45pm. Phew. Busy busy busy day so far. Done lots of work again, and i THINK im about to send the funding application *gulp* terrified. 

 

I also nipped to the shop, got some cottage cheese, bananas, blueberries, cat food, and almonds (!) got some petrol and then drove home, then walked 10 mins to the other shop to top the gas up BUT it doesnt seem to have worked, so i need to go back ugh. Oh well. Its freezing, i need it. 

 

I also cleaned the kitchen, and prepped some salmon (lemon juice, black pepper, rosemary) and have some baby potatoes boiling, ill crush them a bit and add lemon juice, butter, black pepper and herbs yum. Then will eat, with veggies. Ill have enough potatoes to have with my steak tomorrow. (i found a nice bit of steak in the reduced section the other day and had it in freezer!) 

 

Im going to my old house later, (7.30pm) as i havent got a washing machine yet, and Ste said i can use his so  i need to sort my clothes to take over. Then drive round in a bit. After ive eaten and done work. Be nice to see him AND JULES ❤️ 

 

Im tired, and feel a bit sickly, again prob down to food intake not being enough, ill have a banana whilst i wait for food to cook. maybe a cracker and cream cheese? 

 

Listening to good music is helping my mood a bit. 

 

I keep putting off sending the funding application, i better read through once more, then send it. aaaghhhhhh xx

[aramis]

Just another, quite random thought about eating - eating enough is important to lose weight. It sounds counter intuitive, but when you are on too big deficit, body will hold to this little energy you give it and brace for impact foreseeable hunger. Sweet little gift from our caveman ancestors... 

 

About gym - do you have membership, or go casually?

[Salinger]

13 minutes ago, aramis said:

 

 

About gym - do you have membership, or go casually?

 

I have a membership xx

[TGP]

2 hours ago, Salinger said:

Hi all. 4.45pm. Phew. Busy busy busy day so far. Done lots of work again, and i THINK im about to send the funding application *gulp* terrified. 

 

I also nipped to the shop, got some cottage cheese, bananas, blueberries, cat food, and almonds (!) got some petrol and then drove home, then walked 10 mins to the other shop to top the gas up BUT it doesnt seem to have worked, so i need to go back ugh. Oh well. Its freezing, i need it. 

 

I also cleaned the kitchen, and prepped some salmon (lemon juice, black pepper, rosemary) and have some baby potatoes boiling, ill crush them a bit and add lemon juice, butter, black pepper and herbs yum. Then will eat, with veggies. Ill have enough potatoes to have with my steak tomorrow. (i found a nice bit of steak in the reduced section the other day and had it in freezer!) 

 

Im going to my old house later, (7.30pm) as i havent got a washing machine yet, and Ste said i can use his so  i need to sort my clothes to take over. Then drive round in a bit. After ive eaten and done work. Be nice to see him AND JULES ❤️ 

 

Im tired, and feel a bit sickly, again prob down to food intake not being enough, ill have a banana whilst i wait for food to cook. maybe a cracker and cream cheese? 

 

Listening to good music is helping my mood a bit. 

 

I keep putting off sending the funding application, i better read through once more, then send it. aaaghhhhhh xx

 

I sense your great mood

awesome!

 

good to see you bounce back some. 

 

have a great day! ❤️

 

 

[Echoceanic]

2 hours ago, aramis said:

eating enough is important to lose weight. It sounds counter intuitive, but when you are on too big deficit, body will hold to this little energy you give it and brace for impact foreseeable hunger

 

Exactly. It's how my mom actually gained weight while on a diet. Her body freaked out and stored everything and it took a while for it to relax. You want your body to be able to function.

 

4 hours ago, Salinger said:

I dont really like seeds  but almonds are ok? Might get some of them. 

 

I eat a lot of flax cause it helps with my digestion, and I can't eat a lot of fish. I add it in meals (ground flax seeds are a great way to thicken tomato sauce) and muesli. Salmon is a great choice.

 

Also, 'junk' food is only bad when it's all you eat or you binge on it. Eating it occasionally won't hurt you, and will help with the mindset. Food is fuel. Crackers sound awesome. 

[Yasha92]

Agree with the eating!

 

I periodically start doing really shitty in the gym, struggling with what used to be easy, not going up in weights... getting home from work and crawling straight into bed.

 

Whenever I clock myself doing this, I have a little look at my calories and ‘HELLO’, I’m eating way too little (and when I say way too little it’s like 1200-1500, so you are eating waaaaaaay too little). It’s like a bear “uh-oh, seems like it’s autumn coz the glut of berries/fishes/whatever-the-heck-bears-eat has dried up, better stack on those last few pounds to get me through the winter hibernation, and oh let’s start practicing the hibernation with some looooong naps”...

 

Youve gotta reassure your body that there will be more food coming, so it doesn’t have to hold on to the weight for hibernation.

 

PS: if your body is used to wild fluctuations in the available calories, it might be a little while before it trusts you that you are going to feed it. It is possible that it will put on a couple kilos while it is learning that more food will come. Once it trusts you it will start letting go.

 

PPS: snack ideas, cheese sticks, nuts/nut butter, some seedy bread (as toast with peanut butter and jam?), a couple boiled eggs, mashed taters are excellent. When you have your tea have a cookie with it. Add a little honey to your yoghurt with berries etc.

 

PPS: don’t eat the cat food, that’s not for you!

[Salinger]

Thanks so much guys for so much good advice ❤️

 

I ate my delicious dinner, was seriously good. AND so healthy! 

 

I then SENT THE FUNDING APPLICATION aaaaghhhhhhhhhh i feel sick but hey ho, 6 weeks....please cross everything. 

 

Then i drove to Ste's and put my washing on, drank tea, and we had the radio on as we chatted for a couple of hours. Was really lovely actually i saw Jules too the cute little thing, he was purring so much ❤️ 

 

Just got home 30 mins ago, put the washing on the radiators, popped the heating on, now im drinking tea. Been a busy day...got loads of work done. So im pleased about that. 

 

Will try to keep anxiety at bay a bit better. xx

[Yasha92]

That sounds absolutely lovely

[aramis]

Hey Liz!

 

Great, productive day, and even better evening  

 

Looks like we have your nutrition sorted out for now (MOAR KCALS!), with the quality of meals we will play more next week (yet I think this is something you have quite good grasp of). 

 

And now - exercises.

 

[wall-of-text]

 

The thing is - you can't rely only on motivation long term. You need a habit. You can find lots of scienc-y articles about creating habits - about cue-action-reward loop etc. It's good to know how it works, but for now let's focus on just one thing - how to get you to gym consistently (you can research the topic by yourself, I will not cite half of the internet here ). 

 

I think you should pick 2 days (for now) a week you will hit the gym - 1 hour max. It would be best to pick same days and time every week, like - every Tuesday and Friday will be a "Gym Day". This way you don't need to plan it ahead - it's already settled. Give yourself AT LEAST one day rest between for regeneration - your body will thank you.

 

At the gym do whatever you find enjoyable, like threadmill, squat and plank combo you did earlier (if it was nice). I'm biased about upper body strength, so I would add something to target this area, but for now even plank does some work for your arms/shoulders/upper back. You do you. If you want specific training plan, we will work on it later. 

 

And now the best/worst part - reward.

To "force" you to keep consistency, you need some form of "external motivator" (motivation alone will get you nowhere, as I stated earlier). I found in my case most effective is "short term penalty and long term reward" system. Short term penalty is action I do in case of failing my daily goal - if I skip my workout, I won't watch fav series in the evening, skip yummy supper and eat food I don't like instead etc. I treat myself like a little kid - I behaved good, I'll get the fun stuff. I did poorly, sorry, no fun today. In your case it could be footy or Simpsons at stake - I know skipping this would hurt, so it's good way of coercion. 

Long term reward on the other hand is something I look forward to - if I get 90% of my planned workouts for the month, I will go for a professional massage session, buy myself new running shoes or treat myself something extra special. 

 

There need to be place for chaos that life is full of, of course. You can get sick, injured or too busy to find the time for gym on a given day. It happens. In such conditions not going to gym isn't really your fault, but it's your responsibility (yeah that sucks) to deal with it. Instead of just forfeit your training and voluntarily suffer your (unearned) daily penalty, just think on some sort of "backup routine" you can do at home. Be it round of bodyweight exercises, yoga session etc. Some last ditch effort you can make to stay true to your fitness plan. 

 

The other days are regeneration time for now - your body needs to accommodate to higher caloric intake, regular workouts etc. Don't try to do too much. If you want, do some light yoga, stretching or just walking these days. Rule of a thumb for now - if the activity needs warming up, it's too much for a rest day.

 

[/wall-of-text]

 

We have your back  

[Salinger]

Hey @aramis this is great info. 

 

Ive never really had set days, i go with how i feel and hence, gets too late and i dont do anythng at all. So ill try the set days thing yes! Tuesday and Thursday for now i think??

 

Specific plans are always good, i never know what to do when im there which is another problem haha (so many issues)

 

Whats good for upper body strength?

 

Hmmmm will think of rewards..... any thoughts pop them down  

 

Thanks so much xx

[aramis]

41 minutes ago, Salinger said:

i never know what to do when im there

For this week stick with treadmill/squat/plank combo you did earlier - it's quite firm base, covers many areas, and as I recall you enjoyed it, right?

As mentioned before - give your body time to adapt. Once it gets comfortable with nutrition change, we'll start adding load. 

 

And if you are impatient, just look around the gym (or NF blog) and ask yourself what exercises look fun to do (bodyweight vs free weights vs machines vs gymnastics vs zumba vs yoga etc) - we will shape your routine to lead you to those things  

[NicTheRugger]

Hi Liz! Sorry I haven't been able to check in for the past couple of days. My internet's been out since Friday, and I got it back just yesterday. I'm so sorry to hear about the funding not working out.  Hopefully the next one will!

 

And Aramis is spot on with the idea of creating a fixed routine. Motivation comes and goes, so it's not always the best to rely on motivation to get you up and running. Sometimes, it's best to just have a schedule, and go about it even if you don't want to  Case in point, yesterday was my day off. I still dragged my sorry behind out of bed and did a bodyweight workout because Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays are workout days. I really didn't want to be up at 5:15 on my day off, but it's a habit I'm working on (re)building for myself. Habits are always stronger than motivation.

 

As for the food thing... you may want to lose weight, but not eating enough will get you sick! And we definitely don't want that. Aramis is, again, 100% right. You want to be eating at a deficit while making sure your body gets what you need. As for the food thing being a lack of motivation, would something like crockpot meals or setting aside one day a week to do meal prep help with not wanting to cook?

 

Keep it up! You're doing great, even if things seem a little grim right now.

[Salinger]

3 hours ago, aramis said:

For this week stick with treadmill/squat/plank combo you did earlier - it's quite firm base, covers many areas, and as I recall you enjoyed it, right?

As mentioned before - give your body time to adapt. Once it gets comfortable with nutrition change, we'll start adding load. 

 

And if you are impatient, just look around the gym (or NF blog) and ask yourself what exercises look fun to do (bodyweight vs free weights vs machines vs gymnastics vs zumba vs yoga etc) - we will shape your routine to lead you to those things  

 

Yes great, ok i want to do boxing but cant afford it blah blah.. anyway yes will look round the gym for things too. 

 

xx

 

1 hour ago, NicTheRugger said:

Hi Liz! Sorry I haven't been able to check in for the past couple of days. My internet's been out since Friday, and I got it back just yesterday. I'm so sorry to hear about the funding not working out.  Hopefully the next one will!

 

And Aramis is spot on with the idea of creating a fixed routine. Motivation comes and goes, so it's not always the best to rely on motivation to get you up and running. Sometimes, it's best to just have a schedule, and go about it even if you don't want to  Case in point, yesterday was my day off. I still dragged my sorry behind out of bed and did a bodyweight workout because Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays are workout days. I really didn't want to be up at 5:15 on my day off, but it's a habit I'm working on (re)building for myself. Habits are always stronger than motivation.

 

As for the food thing... you may want to lose weight, but not eating enough will get you sick! And we definitely don't want that. Aramis is, again, 100% right. You want to be eating at a deficit while making sure your body gets what you need. As for the food thing being a lack of motivation, would something like crockpot meals or setting aside one day a week to do meal prep help with not wanting to cook?

 

Keep it up! You're doing great, even if things seem a little grim right now.

 

No worries Nic. Thanks ... yes still very sad and stressed out but trying to be ok. 

 

Im unsure about prepping. Just because ive tried it and feel like the meals arent as nice when left a couple days, also no microwave here!! 

 

But i do like cooking so need to make that a habit also...

 

xx

[Salinger]

Hey, 2pm and really chilly. I feel very very very poorly today unfortunately I dont know why? I feel sick and i feel ive got a headache brewing. 

 

I lay with Jackson for 30 mins but i have so much work to do   its stressing me out. 

 

Plus i need to exercise at some point. 

 

Eating is ok, i have cereal this morn (bran flakes) and i actually ate lunch (!) cottage cheese salad in  pitta. Ive tracked everything out, i'm on 1738 if i stick to that plan, so better but not perfect yet. 

 

Im SO SO SO TIRED. i may go back to the doctors. OR it really is that kick starting my body by eating better and moving more? Feels impossible. 

 

Anyway im only talking negative due to feeling poorly. Maybe its shark week incoming. I dont think so though. 

 

Everton play tonight, so thats something to look forward to (before they end up ruining the week by losing!) hahahhahaah 

 

Ill maybe get a cup of tea and get on with some work..... x

 

[TGP]

Wait.... @aramis

 

.....

a somewhat sedentary women needs 2000 cals TDEE

 

are you sure thats right?

 

I had heard much closer to 1800.

 

Keep in mind Liz is/was trying to lose weight.  bumping UP calories won't help for those efforts.  for clarity sakes (and I"m sure I'm right about this ADDING MORE CALORIES will TEND add weight.  I'm very confident I'm right about this; in this one aspect fitness is very simple about that.)

 

-----

 

Now, I've got way problems over the interwebz, knowing where a person truly stands for weight loss.

 

----

but IMHO.  While 1738 seems a little low.  I'm not sure its THAT far off until exercise goes up and stays up.  and I don't think I'd tell someone Just starting to exercise that they need to eat more.  (let their own appetite respond FIRST;  its tough to know when a person's body starts to adapt to newbe efforts)

 

I do Seem to still  HAVE  a computer problem but as I can I'll google TDEE

 

in the meanwhile do you have full macros?

... if possible do you have %fat/%muscle  (and if you have those numbers where did you get them)

 

apologies If I misread or misunderstood stuff.

Jason

 

also  PS for missing the topic earlier.  I'm not questioning the good advice of HOW to get in kcal excess but whether Liz really ought to GO there.

I know people in my life , for example, that would be devastated to gain weight, and could NOT be convinced that its a good thing.

 

and PPS.

yes, Liz, I've seen some pictures.  but really, I haven't seen enough to have any opinion whether you need to gain or lose weight.

 

certain people (in my life) also can be very upset at the idea that people are JUDGING them (and their weight).

but what we are all about is Help.

 

there's wisdom here to help you Gain or Lose weight.  you just need to make sure you understand what you Want to do and what is best for your body.

 

keep writing to us... there's a lively discussion going on for sure...

 

 

 

 

[aramis]

23 minutes ago, TGP said:

somewhat sedentary women needs 2000 cals TDEE

 

are you sure thats right?

 

I had heard much closer to 1800.

I work on numbers Liz got from TDEE calculator in this NF article (other calculators online gave her similar values). For sedentary level, it gave her ~2,5K - hence 2K target (keeping 500kcal deficit). I see what you are referring, just checked the calculator and yeah, those numbers look bit too high. 

 

BUT

 

But Liz ate below 1K kcal, which isn't healthy in any way for her. Besides, even IF there was some mistake in calculating this, 2K kcal daily is (at least here in Europe) considered average "maintenance" level for women (it's even used as reference in nutrition info on food). First, we need to get rid of this constant tiredness, then we will fine-tune the nutrition. We need to work slowly, because if we change everything at once, it will be too overwhelming. Baby steps FTW.

 

@Salinger Liz, can you re-calculate your TDEE with "sedentary" activity level? I won't ask you for your measurements because it's none of my business, but let's be sure we have proper data.

 

  

3 hours ago, Salinger said:

may go back to the doctors

I'm sure it won't hurt. Better check twice and be sure.

 

 

[TGP]

what do you show a typical women to be

 

liz's numbers are Yes private but lets do some rough estimates

 

I  show a women, 31 years old, 5'3 inches (which google calls average) .... 150# (which is a little overweight, but not beyond averages)....

TDEE 1582

 

now if she is 135# (which per bmi... is healthy)

TDEE 1500

 

no reasonable combination of weight and height creates anything close to 2500kcals for a women.

 

I do question that 1782 is badly undereating.  my understanding is that 1800 and that's too many calories for weight loss

 

PS

per https://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/how-many-calories-should-i-eat-every-day-a-look-at-total-daily-energy-expenditure-tdee/

 

please replicate the calculations

 

but keep in mind its american units ... #/inches

 

unless I've misread something

 

EDIT

a bunch of pages are saying 2000 is the normal caloric requirement for an adult women.  

 

so I maybe Wrong with the 1800

 

but that brings up new questios;  Why is the NF TDEE page show hundreds less?

mmmm

? and ??

 

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/cut-down-on-your-calories/

https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/average-daily-calorie-intake-women-5067.html

 

CAUTION even when you start exercising...

https://www.popsugar.com/fitness/Can-Running-Cause-Weight-Gain-44871434

 

[TGP]

On 1/20/2020 at 7:55 AM, Salinger said:

 

Yes around 900 yesterday probably eeeek.

 

...

ok

I see it now

 

yeah THATs too low.

 

however unintentional the risk is to bingeish.. one day your ignoring your stomach,etc and the NEXT your starved and eating all kinds of bad stuff.

 

Rarely is being extremes a good idea in fitness/diet.

 

but please DO show where you calculated a 2400ish TDEE... it doesn't sound right to me.

 

its  not at ALL what a big google search says is a likely need for an average sedentary women.

 

-----

as with all things more info means better coaching

 

are you losing weight?

 

do you have weekly estimates of your cals or macros??

 

its always better to have long term estimates than single day snapshots of great clarity.

 

sorry for missing all of this.

 

hope you day is good