Salinger's twenty eighth challenge!

[Salinger]

Hi guys, well thanks for discussing it ! Sorry wasnt around....

 

TGP, i weigh A LOT more than you estimated hahahah im also 5'6 (i think) 

 

Anyway, i checked and its still around 2200 maintenance. SO how much do i take off to lose weight?

 

I dont actually LOOK like i weigh as much as i do (too embarrassed to say) i mean i look big but not like photos i see of people at my weight, if that makes sense? No idea why

 

ughhhhhhhh x

[TGP]

ok,well

then the 17xx number was good.  that was the day with salmon?

......

above 150# (70kg)  I would not advocate for Caloric surplus, no.

 

 

here's the trick of all this talk of TDEE. it only tells you how much calories to MAINTAIN weight and not what is takes to lose (or Gain) weight.

 

my experience of this is that, its frustratingly hard to move the needle (until it starts moving)...

so the Big truth here is that CONSISTENCY is everything.

 

if you consistently eat 2000 yes, you will Lose.  YOU must.  but you might very, very slowly.  remember the body burns body fat (LAST) and has an annoying habit of altering hunger instead of chompin'  down on its own reserves.

 

....

SO I'll stand by the original number I had in my head before I googled.  I remember the number 1800 as being a good caloric target for an adult women.  I think its probably right for you even IF the TDEE calcs show higher maintance numbers.

 

if another person says 2000 I'll not argue it.

 

but IMHO 2500 doesn't describe you.  

....

maybe unneccesary but I'll  say it as a friend. remember that the caloric target must be an average with Every mood.  I bet you frequently struggle with your diet when you become depressed and your mood swings down.  I see with my son, its horribly hard to get him to do Anything with he's depressed and at the bottom of a cycle.  I would plan for days like that especially when you feel manic. 

don't make you goals manic and fail them when depressed.

 

PS.   SELF LOVE always!  remember that sometimes bad days happen and things slip.  if they slip, work to meet targets as often as possible.  MOST of 1800 is still far enough from 2200 to see weight loss. (IMHO)

[TGP]

27 minutes ago, Salinger said:

Hi guys, well thanks for discussing it ! Sorry wasnt around....

 

TGP, i weigh A LOT more than you estimated hahahah im also 5'6 (i think) 

 

Anyway, i checked and its still around 2200 maintenance. SO how much do i take off to lose weight?

 

I dont actually LOOK like i weigh as much as i do (too embarrassed to say) i mean i look big but not like photos i see of people at my weight, if that makes sense? No idea why

 

ughhhhhhhh x

PS

please don't be embarassed.  you don't have to say your weight; its truly ok but we've seen pictures and your a beautiful lady.

 

as far as THAT goes. one number NEVER describes a person.  just sayin'

 

[JuiceeTarget]

3 minutes ago, TGP said:

I would plan for days look those espacially when you feel manic.

Some advice I would give along these lines is that when you are feeling good set yourself up for the times you don't feel good. There is a belief that we all have the exact same amount of willpower... the difference is in how and when you spend that willpower.

I know for me, when I feel really good and cook ahead it isn't that much work at that time. But when I am feeling tired and down and open the freezer and find that gift from my past self, it makes me feel just a little bit better.

[aramis]

guys... Guys... GUYS!!!

 

We're arguing over what? 200 calories? It's negligible, especially because we use this value ONLY FOR A WEEK to establish a baseline. 

 

54 minutes ago, Salinger said:

Anyway, i checked and its still around 2200 maintenance. SO how much do i take off to lose weight?

As your self-proclaimed coach and Tolkien fan, I'd say

 

Now don't be hasty, Master Meriadoc.

 

Let me cite... myself:

On 1/20/2020 at 1:35 PM, aramis said:

Let's up those numbers to like 2000 kcal daily, you'll still will be in nice deficit, but won't starve yourself. Don't stress about it too much though - 200kcal up or down isn't an issue, 2K is only a baseline for where to start.

 

Please, please, please... slow down. Each and every one here tells truth, but it's too much info. Too many meaningful, yet unconnected facts WILL lead to overwhelming static. 

 

Even if correct maintenance is 2200 instead of 2500, you are still in deficit. But to be honest, it's not the point of this week. The point is to stabilize your intake at level lower, but close to maintenance. If you wish, it can be 1800 kcal. But do your best to make it consistent for a week. This should help with your chronic exhaustion, which is our main concern right now. 

[jstanlick]

2 minutes ago, aramis said:

We're arguing over what? 200 calories? It's negligible, especially because we use this value ONLY FOR A WEEK to establish a baseline.

Not only that, we are under the assumption that we are so precise in our measurements that our calorie counting is an exact science...which it most certainly is not. Slight variation up or down is most certainly happening. The biggest point I think you're making is that too low of calorie consumption is leading to exhaustion and having the opposite of the desired effect in terms of fat loss. Exhaustion and disappointment combined can so easily lead to a negative health spiral that takes days and weeks (or longer if its been going on for a long time) to pull yourself out of.

[aramis]

@jstanlick

Sometimes I struggle with wording (English is my second lang.), but you described it flawlessly. 

[jstanlick]

16 minutes ago, aramis said:

Sometimes I struggle with wording (English is my second lang.)

LOL! English is my first language and many times I struggle with my wording as well  

[TGP]

I feel like I'm just Catching up to what people have been saying....

and

probably confusing Liz. 

 

sorry for that!

 

anyways, the current advice is

* maintain a daily diet of 1800-2000kcals (for a week) to see if the fatigue goes away

* 2 days in the gym doing anything you like

 

thats really, REALLY good advice from the coach. yes.

 

and to Liz

 

you can't work at all things at the same time;

you can't fix you diet, have an awesome gym routine, AND work on losing lots of weight All at these same time. INSTANTLY.

 

if and if you do that in a manic mood, it won't stick when things get sadder...

 

this all must be done INCREMENTALLY.

so ,

I whole heartedly love aramis's advice.  I think I tweaked out over the 2500kcals numbers.... but again are you going to , in addition to what I wrote before, NOW, write down every little cal you eat? maybe not.

 

change is Hard.  beware of getting overwhelmed.  beware of doing TOO much.  little  baby steps; and if your fatigued and eating poorly you can't just ignore that and say your losing weight.  it doesn't work that way.

 

----

personally,NOW.  being personal.  I've never been able to maintain a "count your calories" program.  I lose track.  Even NOW, and I have ONE HUGE dataset on myself and I don't track macros.

 

and I've lost weight....

 

it can be done, without calorie counting.

 

its not counting them that changes anything.

 

its long term habits.  my personal example though may (prolly doesn't) apply to you.

 

----

and YES

English is my first language, yet I can be horribly hard to read.  

sorry about that.

 

give me a yell and interrupt the gibberish when you need to.

 

❤️

Jason

 

 

 

[Maggie-Miau]

Additional Requisite Friendly Reminder that no matter what you do or what plan you try, you are Awesome and Amazing!

 

 

 

[NicTheRugger]

3 hours ago, jstanlick said:

LOL! English is my first language and many times I struggle with my wording as well  

English is a silly, evil language that makes 0 sense because it gets its grammar and structure from mugging other languages in dark alleys and rifling through their pockets for loose verbs and participles. 

 

 

3 hours ago, TGP said:

you can't work at all things at the same time;

you can't fix you diet, have an awesome gym routine, AND work on losing lots of weight All at these same time. INSTANTLY.

 

if and if you do that in a manic mood, it won't stick when things get sadder...

 

this all must be done INCREMENTALLY.

so , I whole heartedly love aramis's advice.  I think I tweaked out over the 2500kcals numbers.... but again are you going to , in addition to what I wrote before, NOW, write down every little cal you eat? maybe not.

 

change is Hard.  beware of getting overwhelmed.  beware of doing TOO much.  little  baby steps; and if your fatigued and eating poorly you can't just ignore that and say your losing weight.  it doesn't work that way.

As always, Jason's correct. It's important to build one small habit at a time. Too much too soon gets way too overwhelming, and you end up quitting out of sheer frustration. Trust me, I've been there. Maybe this week just focus on getting to the gym on Tuesday and Thursday, and tracking what you eat for a week. (However you want to do that. Notebook, using an app like myfitnesspal, whatever), next week, focus on building on those habits (keep going to the gym, etc.), and just keep building those habits, that way you can figure out what you want and how to get there. And of course... we're here to help!

[Echoceanic]

17 hours ago, TGP said:

you can't work at all things at the same time;

you can't fix you diet, have an awesome gym routine, AND work on losing lots of weight All at these same time. INSTANTLY.

 

I feel like I need to write this on a bunch of post it notes and place it everywhere.

 

And yeah, right now the problem is fatigue, we're not looking at weight, that is a whole different problem. This is 'getting your body out of panic mode' time, basically. 

 

17 hours ago, TGP said:

personally,NOW.  being personal.  I've never been able to maintain a "count your calories" program.  I lose track.  Even NOW, and I have ONE HUGE dataset on myself and I don't track macros.

 

I'm in this boat too. How much did I eat? I have no idea. But I also suck at consciously moving my calories up or down, so when I go through large changes I like to check in, but my numbers are reaaaaly approximate.

[aramis]

1 hour ago, Echoceanic said:

my numbers are reaaaaly approximate

And it's perfectly fine! Mine are approx. too  

 

EVERY calorie counting is only an approximation. Take two identical tomatoes, run them through lab tests and they end up with different values. For now, calorie counting is necessary to be sure Liz eats enough, yet without going overboard. Later we'll switch to more elastic planning/tracking (I have couple ideas for it). 

[Echoceanic]

3 hours ago, aramis said:

ake two identical tomatoes, run them through lab tests and they end up with different values.

 

For me it's this - I will have leftovers from the meal and have no idea how to estimate how much I've consumed from it.  

[aramis]

Hey Liz, how's your day? Haven't heard from you since yesterday evening. 

 

Did we scare you? Waging unnecessary wars over nothing, in your own thread. It feels we did... sorry 

[TGP]

yeah, Truce! (and Truth)

i'm normally SO agreeable and chillax in person. honest!

 

how the heck ARE you anyways?

 

❤️

 

[Mr_Willes]

@Salinger you still here, how are you doing?

[Salinger]

21 hours ago, aramis said:

Hey Liz, how's your day? Haven't heard from you since yesterday evening. 

 

Did we scare you? Waging unnecessary wars over nothing, in your own thread. It feels we did... sorry 

 

Hey Aramis, sorry for going AWOL. No not reallly scaring me....will explain at end of post xx

 

20 hours ago, TGP said:

 

 

how the heck ARE you anyways?

 

❤️

 

 

Ok today thanks xx

 

3 hours ago, Mr_Willes said:

@Salinger you still here, how are you doing?

 

Hey thanks for checking ❤️ im ok today xx

 

 

__________

 

Sorry guys for not checking in here ... thanks for those who asked

 

Been a tough couple of days, depression, caused by major stress (i think) ive barely done a thing really, except lie in bed, drink beer in the eve, hate myself, feel worthless etc etc. 

 

Feel a tiny bit better today, but still not done much except lie in bed. I am up now though, on my sofa with my duvet (its really cold) Listening to music, and trying to think about doing some work. Although might be best to chill a bit tonight and work on work tomorrow. bleurghhhh

 

Having a minor existential crisis i recon. Im sure it will pass. 

Food been terrible

No exercising

 

Ill try hard to get a good solid day in tomorrow and take it a day at a time. xx

[TGP]

mental health before ANY else.  that has Got to be remembered.

 

you mention depression is this centered about the funding?  yeah, that's very hard.  like you say; an artist's burden is that of frequent rejection.  remember though, that Not everybody is rejecting what you have been doing and you've had some Good luck too.

 

its always a little hard to estimate with any certainty on where you stand on funds and how much room you have before you entirely get to financial ruin.  but please Have faith and confidence that you CAN do it.  you've gone through many lean times and you can again I know it!

 

anyways, Depression is a brutal emotion and I see it in my son too

 

So MY most fervent advice is  please try to do Stuff!

 

  good stuff, but even if Not So good, depression squeezes our motivation to do anything-fight it by doing stuff

 

bath, art, walk, talking to us at NF, googling about (anything),etc.

 

doing stuff, eating and sleeping is the bedrock of life.  its much more important than a big exercise routine or an awesome diet.

--

thoughts about the TWO things you mentioned.

I'd not let workouts and calorie counted good diet depress you if the world is awful and you feel Horribly depressed.

its not the end of the world to not have a consistent workout or a perfect running count of your daily calories.

 

we've truced about the calorie targets so I don't know what aramis's take on this is.

but Eating remains important;  

 

as your single and all that, I imagine, "food has been terrible" means skipping meals and then, when you do eat is the most processed food that can be bought (cuz unfairly ,generally, very Processed food is generally much cheaper than more nutritious food)

 

....

but what to say.

 

you don't tell a drowning person their not swimming well.  your first priority must be to EAT. it'll help.  Even Bad food is better than no food at all, and slightly better cooked food is better than bad food.   think of like harry potters chocolate requirement for the dementors.  there's nothing really wonderful about chocolate; but doing SOMETHING is really important to a very depressed person.

 

I urge you to eat and to COOK as much as you can WITHOUT feeling guilt about not eating better.  return to cooking, but NO salmon dinners till you feel better OK? 

 

your not going to be an ingenious chief when you feel like dying or have other strong, negative emotions.

 

-----

about exercise, its kind of the same advice

 

Please try to PUSH away the guilt.  you're dealing with Tough stuff!   your not going to have a passionate perfect exercise program when dealing with this stuff (at least not NOW).  as I said everything must be incremental.

 

...

if you CAN, I think it would do you good to walk out of the house and do a short little visit to a park, cold or not.  ... consider it mental health to tell that awful depression demon that it can't keep you stuck in four small walls.

 

when your feeling better, then yes, perhaps back to the gym.  but I remember you telling us that its just HARD to say you'll go on T and H regularly and this is why.

 

so don't obsess about that.  Do SOMETHING and if you can do something a little more, do that, when you can do that!

(but When you get really manic, beware of doing TOO much and overdoing stuff)

...

always pick the better over the worse; even if the better seems hardly anything.

 

the first trick of depression is to tell you that Nothing matters cause if you Eat something ,its going to un-nutritious so you don't.  and then if you dare to think of some kind of walk or something, it tells you THAT won't matter either because its so little.

 

LITTLE, when your drowning in depression Isn't LITTLE!  and its not unimportant.

 

In fact, little means possibly coming out of these things quicker. 

 

I.M.H.O

 

I'm very happy to hear your last thought and I welcome you to get back to talking to us about your day.,

You can do it!

 

 

 

 

[TGP]

... and I don't know

I hope some of this helps

 

... but....

 

I've been accused of just giving advice when it really isn't very helpful.

 

maybe the best thing we can say to you is that we care for you! ❤️

write again soon.

[Salinger]

Hey Jason thanks for your post ❤️

 

I think the financial aspect is one trigger yes for sure. But worrying about not getting the next one is also tough to deal with. I have to cope though because its a 6 week wait! I cant feel like this for 6 weeks! So ill try to put it to the back of my mind. 

 

Im going to make a cheese salad sandwich i think....and a cup of tea. Ive lit some candles to make the room smell nice. 

 

I could walk to the shops for some nice bread? Its dark though and its a bit rough around here!! Should be fine though. 

 

xx

[TGP]

Thats a beautiful thought liz,

I think a walk to the shop for bread is Just exactly the kind of movement that will help.

 

but... ah

yes. do also be careful.

 

I'm very LUCKY in that regards, in the middle of a small town town, I never really have to think much about crime.

on the edge of a city; you don't have that luxury.

 

 

 

[Echoceanic]

For me honestly being aware I'm going through things makes it easier, then I can adjust my expectations and do what would make me feel better.

 

You're going to be fine.

[Salinger]

2 hours ago, TGP said:

Thats a beautiful thought liz,

I think a walk to the shop for bread is Just exactly the kind of movement that will help.

 

but... ah

yes. do also be careful.

 

I'm very LUCKY in that regards, in the middle of a small town town, I never really have to think much about crime.

on the edge of a city; you don't have that luxury.

 

 

 

 

Just went to the local shop instead, reaaaaly wanted to buy chocolate but didnt. Just got some sliced bread (they dont sell nice stuff) and had a sandwich. Also a can of pepsi...as was craving sugar. 

 

Wish id got the chocolate haha

 

xx

 

1 hour ago, Echoceanic said:

For me honestly being aware I'm going through things makes it easier, then I can adjust my expectations and do what would make me feel better.

 

You're going to be fine.

 

Thanks Echo x

[Salinger]

Hey all. 8.15pm - warm (!) i have the heating on ...  should turn it off soon but fuck it, i was freezing so...

 

Listening to some chilled music, sipping my pepsi, wishing i had got some chocolate haha so so so so tired as ever. But  i think its over sleeping and also i was lying awake till 4am last night too...cos i slept in the day bluergh need to get the body clock back to normal. 

 

I have tried to plan the week coming up, its busy   but i have to get through it. Ive wasted a couple of days but trying not to berate myself, as ive not been well. 

 

So i need to heal but i dont know how, apart from taking my meds, and doing things that help my mood. All seems so POINTLESS though, like what am i reaching for? where are the goals to keep me going? Very apathetic as you can probably tell!!!!

 

Im sure ill snap out of it soon.... xx