KB Girl gives up all pretence of cardio

[Elastigirl]

Awesome deadlift!

[Scaly Freak]

59 minutes ago, KB Girl said:

Not going to comment on the first bit- that shit is just offensive and I see it happening a lot with a friend of mine too. 

 

It is, for many reasons.

 

59 minutes ago, KB Girl said:

With toddlers.. I don't know, I don't want my 3 year old out of my sight and she doesn't want to be out of my sight either. But that's something I know so it's something that can be taken into account, right? Mine isn't generally very loud, but she does ask for attention- so if I'm visiting I'll bring something for her to do or I try to have adult conversations while out in the woods for example or you know.. without the kid around

 

While I understand all of this, it becomes frustrating when all socializing done with this family is done about and around the toddlers. It's the opposite of the point Tobbe was making earlier - for these two, their entire life is their kids. It's all they do and care about and talk about, and if it isn't their one and only interest, they are doing a very good job of making it seem that way. Unless something changes it's a matter of time before we childless ones are phased out of their lives by virtue of having nothing in common anymore, and I find myself wonder if I will mind that when the time comes. It's not like we have anything to talk about anymore, for one.

[Harriet]

2 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Let's see.. I lifted things on Tuesday and Thursday, just low volume consistency work. On Saturday we had our annual powerlifting meet (not a competition) and I joined in for the deadlift, because a) deadlifts and b) there is just something about a room full of people setting PRs that makes you want to join in on the fun. I did 75kg - 92,5kg - 100kg. 

 

Yay! Very beautiful deadlift. So impressive! 

[mitch_dee]

3 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Let's see.. I lifted things on Tuesday and Thursday, just low volume consistency work. On Saturday we had our annual powerlifting meet (not a competition) and I joined in for the deadlift, because a) deadlifts and b) there is just something about a room full of people setting PRs that makes you want to join in on the fun. I did 75kg - 92,5kg - 100kg.

That video is awesome, way to go!!!

 

3 hours ago, KB Girl said:

I have not sat down and written yet.. it's really interesting how hard this is for me! I'm actually a bit unlikely to find time for it tomorrow to complete the goal for this week.. but I'm going to try, and if not I'm definitely hoping to do it Monday so I can sort of pretend it's still part of week 2. 

What are you writing (or did I miss that)?  What do you thing makes it hard for you to get to; finding the time, prioritizing it, or is it like a nerves/anxiety issue?  I only ask cause I find myself in the same boat, have tons of thoughts and ideas but have never gotten them down.

 

(A little late to the party but her to follow)

[Tobbe]

10 hours ago, KB Girl said:

I joined in for the deadlift

 

I have to join in on the applauds in the video 👏👏 Nice one!

 

12 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Interesting! I haven't found it a problem to hang out with childless friends at all, maybe on the contrary even.. easier than those with kids. 

 

I find it easier because then the kids can often play together and entertain each other, so we adults don't have to do that. And there are usually toys for our kids to play with. Often toys we don't have at home, so it's more fun for our kids too  And, if it comes down to it, one of the parents can go play with the kids somewhere, and the other three can have some grownup-time together, without the kids disrupting all the time. In that case you just have to take turns to play with the kids.

[Scaly Freak]

8 hours ago, Tobbe said:

And, if it comes down to it, one of the parents can go play with the kids somewhere, and the other three can have some grownup-time together, without the kids disrupting all the time. In that case you just have to take turns to play with the kids.

 

The fact that the couple I mentioned above is incapable of doing this, is my main source of frustration with them. 

[KB Girl]

20 hours ago, Elastigirl said:

Awesome deadlift!

Thank you!

 

20 hours ago, Scalyfreak said:

While I understand all of this, it becomes frustrating when all socializing done with this family is done about and around the toddlers. It's the opposite of the point Tobbe was making earlier - for these two, their entire life is their kids. It's all they do and care about and talk about, and if it isn't their one and only interest, they are doing a very good job of making it seem that way. Unless something changes it's a matter of time before we childless ones are phased out of their lives by virtue of having nothing in common anymore, and I find myself wonder if I will mind that when the time comes. It's not like we have anything to talk about anymore, for one.

It's a little sad isn't it? I understand your frustration! I also have a friend who doesn't seem to have anything else in her life anymore.. it doesn't seem like a good example for the kids to me. 

How did you originally become friends with this couple? 

 

18 hours ago, Harriet said:

Yay! Very beautiful deadlift. So impressive! 

Thank you! I was pleasantly surprised

 

17 hours ago, mitch_dee said:

That video is awesome, way to go!!!

 

What are you writing (or did I miss that)?  What do you thing makes it hard for you to get to; finding the time, prioritizing it, or is it like a nerves/anxiety issue?  I only ask cause I find myself in the same boat, have tons of thoughts and ideas but have never gotten them down.

 

(A little late to the party but her to follow)

Thanks! 

For now I've actually agreed with myself that I'll write about whatever, just to practice all the processes around it and of course the writing itself. It's perfectionism that makes it hard. I want to be good at writing yesterday and have it match the (very vague) image I have in my head without spending any time fleshing out those ideas. And now that I wrote that I realise I havent done it yet because part of me really wanted to write something on the topics and in the format I'd like to work towards  

 

10 hours ago, Tobbe said:

I have to join in on the applauds in the video 👏👏 Nice one!

 

I find it easier because then the kids can often play together and entertain each other, so we adults don't have to do that. And there are usually toys for our kids to play with. Often toys we don't have at home, so it's more fun for our kids too  And, if it comes down to it, one of the parents can go play with the kids somewhere, and the other three can have some grownup-time together, without the kids disrupting all the time. In that case you just have to take turns to play with the kids.

Thanks! 

I guess we havent quite hit that age yet where they can easily play together without supervision.. 

 

2 hours ago, Scalyfreak said:

The fact that the couple I mentioned above is incapable of doing this, is my main source of frustration with them. 

That's actually one of the reasons I find it harder when the others have kids, because it can be frustrating to have very different approaches to handling your kids. I get very uncomfortable when kids get yelled at or have to go into time out or on the flip side when the kids can just do whatever they please without any intervention.

(I'm sure other parents have that with my approach too, no illusions of being perfect here)

[KB Girl]

It's Sunday. I taught three classes in the morning, went family in law for a birthday in the afternoon and then had dinner at a couples place that I'm hoping we can be friends with. (I like them). And now I write. 

 

I first wrote something personal, a little poem-y... 

 

Sometimes it's really hard to own a business. It's not doing me any favours financially. It's a terrible pain when you're pregnant and don't get maternity leave. And sometimes I really wish I could just call in sick and someone else could deal with the consequences of that.  

But I love my gym. I really really do. 

I love when people tell me that the gym is one of the places they can go to when they're struggling with their mental health, one of the places to feel at home and accepted and pleasant. 
I love when we can help someone deal with a chronic injury so they are able to move again. 
I love that we can help people discover that moving can be fun and that we open up a whole new aspect to their lives with new crazy hobbies. 
I love the community that sprung up around us. I love that our gym members take care of each other. I love that our average gym member could cue you better than the average trainer. I love that there is always someone who baked something on Saturday, that there is a competition for the best socks going on, that recipes are shared and shoes exchanged and packaged picked up for each other and that our members make dates together for other types of movement (they go swimming or climbing or hiking etc). 
I love that there are 6 keys going around and that sometimes I come in to work and someone is already there training and that they took the time to unload the dishwasher and take out the trash. I love that our gym members told us it is really about time we raised our membership prices. 
I love that people come in because they want to lose weight and that a year or two later they only care about putting weight onto their deadlift. I love that we've had people discover about themselves that they can stick to something and that they don't quit quite as easily as they thought. I love that we're increasing confidence. I love that our introverts can be as introverty as they want and I love that they can be drawn into small talk and actually enjoy it. 
I love that when we organise an event there is never a shortage of volunteers. 
I love that we keep making progress, people individually, as a group, as coaches, as a gym. I love that we can say 'well, this wasn't our best idea' or 'we could have done that better' or 'we would like to do it this way now because we think that will work better'. 
I love that I receive messages from people completely ecstatic that they went through an event or a day or a week pain free. 
I love that people will drive 2-3 hours to see us. 
I love that even when I really don't feel like going to work, I always end up turning that around once I get started. 

Also my office's gym is better equipped than yours

 

 

And then I wrote something.. also personal... but more blog-y?

 

I often think about what I want for my kids. Not happiness. Ofcourse I want them to experience this emotion, but emotions come and go. Which Is a good thing because it would be terrible to feel happy at your grandfathers funeral. I want a good life for them. Not in the material sense, I mean in the sense that I wish for their lives to be..well.. full of life. 
And ofcourse I wish for them to be healthy, but I've seen very sick people who are full of life and I've seen very healthy people who are basically dead men walking.  

I don't have any control over sickness and health, over the challenges they will face or the people they will meet. So how can I help them have a good life?  

What is a good life? 

A teacher I had would say that a good life is an autonomous and meaningful life in harmony with your environment, resulting in leaving the world a little bit better than you found it, by helping other people without losing yourself. Which sounds good- but what does it really mean? How do you get there? 

to be continued..  

 

[Elastigirl]

I'm glad you are writing, I enjoy it. Your gym sounds amazing. Which doesn't surprise me, I'm sure a lot of the gym atmosphere is because of the attitude you (and probably Jap too) bring to it.

 

As someone on the other  end of parenting, I've raised my kid, he is  now a man and living his life, I would say you are right, it is about living a good life. Sometimes, it is easy to think when you are a parent that parenting is about making your kid's life easy. I mean, who wants to see their kid in pain, right? But , looking back at it, the hard things my son suffered were some of the things that most shaped him into who he is. If everything was easy for him, I think he wouldn't be the kind of person he is now. And , of course, for me , as a Christian, the good life means  living the life that God has blessed me with in a way that honors Him

 

 

[KB Girl]

12 minutes ago, Elastigirl said:

And , of course, for me , as a Christian, the good life means  living the life that God has blessed me with in a way that honors Him

That’s really what I’m going for, in a non religious way.. ethics are definitely a huge factor in what constitutes a good life. “In a way that honours him” - i would like to explore what that means for me. What does it mean for you?

[Scaly Freak]

36 minutes ago, KB Girl said:

Spoiler

What is a good life? 

 

 

Spoiler

As someone whose only experience with parenting is that I have parents, I'm going to play devil's advocate here and suggest that maybe your job as a parent is to help your child find their own answer to this question? No matter how long that takes them, or how confusing and painful that search becomes along the way.

 

[KB Girl]

1 minute ago, Scalyfreak said:

 

  Hide contents

As someone whose only experience with parenting is that I have parents, I'm going to play devil's advocate here and suggest that maybe your job as a parent is to help your child find their own answer to this question? No matter how long that takes them, or how confusing and painful that search becomes along the way.

 

Ohh I like the thought behind that! And somewhat yes but also definitely no  

I think our job is to help them find their own way in life no matter how long that takes and how confusing and painful.. but we should provide the answer to what a good life is, because it is basically providing them with a moral compass and an ethical foundation. 
also having an answer to that question is quite essential because a parent should be modelling a good life and you can’t without knowing what that is. 

[Scaly Freak]

10 minutes ago, KB Girl said:

Ohh I like the thought behind that! And somewhat yes but also definitely no  

I think our job is to help them find their own way in life no matter how long that takes and how confusing and painful.. but we should provide the answer to what a good life is, because it is basically providing them with a moral compass and an ethical foundation. 
also having an answer to that question is quite essential because a parent should be modelling a good life and you can’t without knowing what that is. 

 

I see a moral compass and ethics to live by, as being separate from living a good life. They are what I use to be a good person, to the best of my ability, and from watching my parents I have learned that to be a good person shouldn't be a goal in life, it should be a habit in day-to-day life.

 

To me "a good life" refers more to what a lot of people mean when they talk about being successful in life. Have a good job, a home you enjoy and feel completely safe in, be where you want to be in relationships that make you happy, be as healthy as it is possible for you to be, find a hobby or two that makes you genuinely proud and happy, and so on. And the details on each of these things vary between people, and that is fine and as it should be.

[Harriet]

2 hours ago, KB Girl said:

I think our job is to help them find their own way in life no matter how long that takes and how confusing and painful.. but we should provide the answer to what a good life is, because it is basically providing them with a moral compass and an ethical foundation. 
also having an answer to that question is quite essential because a parent should be modelling a good life and you can’t without knowing what that is. 

 

2 hours ago, Scalyfreak said:

 

  Hide contents

As someone whose only experience with parenting is that I have parents, I'm going to play devil's advocate here and suggest that maybe your job as a parent is to help your child find their own answer to this question? No matter how long that takes them, or how confusing and painful that search becomes along the way.

 

It's a bit of both... You can't hand someone the key to a good life like a package. Values have to be internalised, which means each person has to choose and endorse them autonomously*. But values that we see modelled by others can be more cognitively and emotionally available to us. So if you think you have the right values (and who doesn't), it makes sense to model them for your children, while also making them aware that other options are available and providing them with the means to do their own rational, moral and emotional analysis of those options. In short, I think you should train your children in moral philosophy  

 

*clearly, I believe that autonomy is one of the key ingredients to the good life. Not everyone does.

[KB Girl]

6 hours ago, Harriet said:

In short, I think you should train your children in moral philosophy  

That’s not a bad idea at all!

 

6 hours ago, Harriet said:

*clearly, I believe that autonomy is one of the key ingredients to the good life. Not everyone does.

Me too. I think it’s one of the cornerstones. 
 

9 hours ago, Scalyfreak said:

To me "a good life" refers more to what a lot of people mean when they talk about being successful in life. Have a good job, a home you enjoy and feel completely safe in, be where you want to be in relationships that make you happy, be as healthy as it is possible for you to be, find a hobby or two that makes you genuinely proud and happy, and so on. And the details on each of these things vary between people, and that is fine and as it should be.

I don’t think it’s healthy to separate these things from ethics and a good moral compass. If they don’t form the foundation for these things, then what will it look like and what will it be worth? 

[Scaly Freak]

24 minutes ago, KB Girl said:

 

I don’t think it’s healthy to separate these things from ethics and a good moral compass. If they don’t form the foundation for these things, then what will it look like and what will it be worth? 

 

Good question.

 

I see ethics and a moral compass as a central part of who a person is. "These things" that I mentioned, the good life, the successful life, they are what a person gets as a result of their actions, and that's how the two are separate. I do firmly believe that a solid moral compass by definition comes with a built-in reluctance to over-ride it. If we are willing to compromise our moral and/or ethical beliefs the moment they become inconvenient, then what was the point of having them in the first place?

[Harriet]

9 hours ago, KB Girl said:

I don’t think it’s healthy to separate these things from ethics and a good moral compass. If they don’t form the foundation for these things, then what will it look like and what will it be worth? 

 

8 hours ago, Scalyfreak said:

I see ethics and a moral compass as a central part of who a person is. "These things" that I mentioned, the good life, the successful life, they are what a person gets as a result of their actions, and that's how the two are separate.

 

I think having values that you care about and try to uphold is necessary but not sufficient for a good life. You also need opportunities for social connection, meaningful work, the ability to contribute to projects beyond yourself, but also the opportunity to work on yourself and the unique capacities that make you a person (such as your virtue, intellect, talents, interests), some autonomy in deciding how your life goes, some pleasure, some skillful activity, some creative activity, and at least some mastery or acceptance of your thoughts and emotions so that they don't negatively determine your wellbeing all day, every day. But yeah, someone with no values is missing a key ingredient.

 

There are also some basics that make this stuff more likely, such as physical and economic security, legal equality, ability to participate in politics and have access to an adequate education, etc. But that's a different question.

[Scaly Freak]

2 hours ago, Harriet said:

But yeah, someone with no values is missing a key ingredient.

 

I don't think there is such a thing. Everyone has some kind of values. 

[Harriet]

1 hour ago, Scalyfreak said:

I don't think there is such a thing. Everyone has some kind of values. 

 

If by value we mean any principle with action-guiding content, then yes, no one has no values. But if we mean moral values that one rationally considers and autonomously endorses, and makes an earnest attempt to live up to despite the inevitability of imperfection, then I think plenty of people don't. There are plenty of amoral and immoral people or people who just don't think much about it. And there can be values that one simply inherits from one's culture, that are unexamined and unchosen. That isn't sufficient for human flourishing, in my view.

[The Hero of Time]

On 1/19/2020 at 9:33 PM, KB Girl said:

A teacher I had would say that a good life is an autonomous and meaningful life in harmony with your environment

 

I would say that autonomy is a main ingredient in having a sense of fulfilment. You can take credit for successes. When you make mistakes, you can learn from them and have an opportunity to fix them. One of the most frustrating things is to receive only blame for mistakes and to be denied the chance to fix them. I would also suggest that there is greater value in trying than in whether that effort results in success or failure, as long as one learns from failure.

 

On 1/19/2020 at 9:33 PM, KB Girl said:

Which sounds good- but what does it really mean? How do you get there?

 

This one's going to be fascinating. I'm gonna take notes.

[Mad Hatter]

Very interesting discussion. Honestly I'm stumped by the question of what a good life is. I don't even think the answer is fixed, but a constantly shifting and evolving one. How do you even model that?

 

20 hours ago, Harriet said:

And there can be values that one simply inherits from one's culture, that are unexamined and unchosen. That isn't sufficient for human flourishing, in my view.

Dunno, there are plenty of people that follow religions blindly and seem very content and happy about living a good life. 

 

Re: the gym, congrats on creating such an amazing space, for yourself and others. It really does sound amazing, I wanna train there too.

[Mike Wazowski]

On 1/19/2020 at 3:33 PM, KB Girl said:

I first wrote something personal, a little poem-y... 

  Reveal hidden contents

Sometimes it's really hard to own a business. It's not doing me any favours financially. It's a terrible pain when you're pregnant and don't get maternity leave. And sometimes I really wish I could just call in sick and someone else could deal with the consequences of that.  

But I love my gym. I really really do. 

I love when people tell me that the gym is one of the places they can go to when they're struggling with their mental health, one of the places to feel at home and accepted and pleasant. 
I love when we can help someone deal with a chronic injury so they are able to move again. 
I love that we can help people discover that moving can be fun and that we open up a whole new aspect to their lives with new crazy hobbies. 
I love the community that sprung up around us. I love that our gym members take care of each other. I love that our average gym member could cue you better than the average trainer. I love that there is always someone who baked something on Saturday, that there is a competition for the best socks going on, that recipes are shared and shoes exchanged and packaged picked up for each other and that our members make dates together for other types of movement (they go swimming or climbing or hiking etc). 
I love that there are 6 keys going around and that sometimes I come in to work and someone is already there training and that they took the time to unload the dishwasher and take out the trash. I love that our gym members told us it is really about time we raised our membership prices. 
I love that people come in because they want to lose weight and that a year or two later they only care about putting weight onto their deadlift. I love that we've had people discover about themselves that they can stick to something and that they don't quit quite as easily as they thought. I love that we're increasing confidence. I love that our introverts can be as introverty as they want and I love that they can be drawn into small talk and actually enjoy it. 
I love that when we organise an event there is never a shortage of volunteers. 
I love that we keep making progress, people individually, as a group, as coaches, as a gym. I love that we can say 'well, this wasn't our best idea' or 'we could have done that better' or 'we would like to do it this way now because we think that will work better'. 
I love that I receive messages from people completely ecstatic that they went through an event or a day or a week pain free. 
I love that people will drive 2-3 hours to see us. 
I love that even when I really don't feel like going to work, I always end up turning that around once I get started. 

Also my office's gym is better equipped than yours

 

I THOUGHT THIS WAS GOING TO BE MY FAVORITE THING I'D READ TODAY!!!

 

On 1/19/2020 at 3:33 PM, KB Girl said:

And then I wrote something.. also personal... but more blog-y?

  Reveal hidden contents

I often think about what I want for my kids. Not happiness. Ofcourse I want them to experience this emotion, but emotions come and go. Which Is a good thing because it would be terrible to feel happy at your grandfathers funeral. I want a good life for them. Not in the material sense, I mean in the sense that I wish for their lives to be..well.. full of life. 
And ofcourse I wish for them to be healthy, but I've seen very sick people who are full of life and I've seen very healthy people who are basically dead men walking.  

I don't have any control over sickness and health, over the challenges they will face or the people they will meet. So how can I help them have a good life?  

What is a good life? 

A teacher I had would say that a good life is an autonomous and meaningful life in harmony with your environment, resulting in leaving the world a little bit better than you found it, by helping other people without losing yourself. Which sounds good- but what does it really mean? How do you get there? 

to be continued..  

 

AND THEN I READ THIS!!!!

 

Seriously, love the line of thinking you're exploring - it's something I think about, maybe not as often as I would prefer to, and your first bit reminded me why I love my little dance community that I'm slowly building. I think I'm going to make today's reflection / meditation on what I think a good life is to me, inspired by you.

 

And fingers crossed that couple becomes a new set of friends for you two!

[Elastigirl]

On 1/19/2020 at 2:07 PM, KB Girl said:

That’s really what I’m going for, in a non religious way.. ethics are definitely a huge factor in what constitutes a good life. “In a way that honours him” - i would like to explore what that means for me. What does it mean for you?

For me to honor God means to worship Him, and follow what He says. I know how to follow HIm by reading His Word, the Bible, and also by listening to Him. I believe that God gives HIs followers His Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit  works in us redirecting our desires from selfishness to loving God and loving others.I believe when I pray and ask God for wisdom, that He answers.

Following God affects every decision I make. For instance, on NF, loving others for me means trying to encourage others, or the reason I do fitness is a way of showing I'm thankful for my body and it helps me be in shape enough to serve others. In my family, it means when I am angry with my husband, I pray about it and seek God's wisdom.And it often means me having to say I'm sorry for my selfish attitude.

Not that my life is perfect, but I do feel like I  have a good life. Our marriage has grown because we both seek to love one another, and that makes our marriage strong. My son is an adult and has good strong friendships, but he also likes to hang out with us. We have strong ties with our extended family. I have a church that I am a part of. The church loves and encourages one another.  I have  a good group of friends I rely on for support, encouragement, and fun. When I think of a scene that describes the good life I think of the Shire. All the hobbits sitting around feasting, dancing, drinking. And they have beautiful gardens too! 

 

Side note I just thought of: why it doesn't work for me to have super strict food rules. I think eating with others and enjoying their company is part of a good life for me.Sure, I don't have to eat to have the company, but I do feel like I'm missing something when I don't let myself just enjoy the moment

 

I

[Tobbe]

On 1/22/2020 at 3:05 AM, Elastigirl said:

For me to honor God means to worship Him, and follow what He says. I know how to follow HIm by reading His Word, the Bible, and also by listening to Him. I believe that God gives HIs followers His Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit  works in us redirecting our desires from selfishness to loving God and loving others.I believe when I pray and ask God for wisdom, that He answers.

Following God affects every decision I make. For instance, on NF, loving others for me means trying to encourage others, or the reason I do fitness is a way of showing I'm thankful for my body and it helps me be in shape enough to serve others. In my family, it means when I am angry with my husband, I pray about it and seek God's wisdom.And it often means me having to say I'm sorry for my selfish attitude.

Not that my life is perfect, but I do feel like I  have a good life. Our marriage has grown because we both seek to love one another, and that makes our marriage strong. My son is an adult and has good strong friendships, but he also likes to hang out with us. We have strong ties with our extended family. I have a church that I am a part of. The church loves and encourages one another. 

 

I love what you're saying. A lot of it resonates with me. I just don't know where to find that same thing. Christianity has never clicked with me. Or religion in general. But I do like the idea of that guidance.

 

"And it often means me having to say I'm sorry for my selfish attitude." You say you find that through prayer. I also want to have a way to find that. A way that doesn't require me to believe in God.

 

On 1/22/2020 at 3:05 AM, Elastigirl said:

 I think eating with others and enjoying their company is part of a good life for me.

 

It's not just you. It's all of humanity since we first sat down around an open fire to share some meat we caught that day  

[@mu]

 I'd love to train at your place

 

Good life... To be honest, I think just the fact that one is in a position to ask themselves that question is already a good start.

 

On 1/20/2020 at 6:09 PM, Harriet said:

There are also some basics that make this stuff more likely, such as physical and economic security, legal equality, ability to participate in politics and have access to an adequate education, etc. But that's a different question.

 

This. Different question maybe, but it's a big one though.

 

On 1/19/2020 at 10:33 PM, KB Girl said:

A teacher I had would say that a good life is an autonomous and meaningful life in harmony with your environment, resulting in leaving the world a little bit better than you found it, by helping other people without losing yourself. Which sounds good- but what does it really mean? How do you get there? 

 

I definitely value harmony and peacefulness. Now leaving the world in a little bit better shape that it was + helping without losing yourself, I find that HARD, really hard. Partly because it sometimes involves a level of fighting (so going against harmony and peacefulness) that's pretty hard to take as an individual (the not losing yourself bit).

Maybe that's the bit about being anchored in a community with similar life values that can help. Maybe that's why religions work for some but I guess other forms of community engagement can make life more meaningful as well.

But again, not sure the word "meaningful" is providing much more answers than "good". Maybe "worthwhile" is a better qualifier? Life can be shit and lonely and disconnected at times but still worth it in the end. And maybe you can't realize its worth until you feel the gaps. Maybe a "good life" is a process rather than a state.

Ha sorry this has neither head nor tail