Of Barbells and Balrogs

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

On 1/2/2020 at 6:39 PM, Knightwatch said:

Some sounded genuinely concerned that I was digging too deep.

 

These kids just don't learn... 

 

 

So I guess its time for a return!

 

 

Origin Story

 

I came to NF through a Lifehacker article, though I forget which now, in November 2011, and though I wasn't a true OG, the forum wasn't that big yet. There were no guilds, there were few enough people that you could know everyone on a pretty familiar basis, and you could participate in almost every post every day without spending more than a few hours on the site. Spezzy was the only moderator.

 

I loved what I found and stayed because I was looking for community and had found a great one. I'm still friends with many of those original people to this day. It's been the best community I've ever been a part of. Eventually, I was brought on as a moderator in the first round of promotions when the forum started getting too big for Spezzy to handle herself, then promoted to admin to help with any of those duties when she was unavailable. I had the honor of being a wizard at 2 of the 3 camp NFs, and they are both in the top 5 weekends of my life. I went to nerd gatherings across the country and even hosted something like 20 nerds at my house for a weekend. I was happy to help with and participate heavily in the community that had come so important to me and did so for years.

 

I stopped doing challenges in 2016 because life had just gotten too hectic to keep up with them. I had just gotten a new job where I had to work hard all day vs it being slow and having time to be on the forums, and we just found out we were going to have another child with a toddler at home already. The challenges were doing more harm than good as far as taking up my headspace, and me beating myself up for not keeping up with them, so I stopped doing them and just hung out on the forums. Eventually I frequented less and less after we had our second and I got another new job that let us move back home near family, but kept me even busier. I also became a bit disenchanted with NF due to the choice to not pursue doing Camp again, and on top of all that other stuff I just sort of drifted away. For the most part, I've gotten over that last issue. I've always understood the reasons that decision was made, even if I don't agree with the business decisions behind it. It just hurt to have something that important vanish, and the decision altered my image of what NF was.

 

Since then

 

I've stayed in touch with a bunch of the nerds that I was close with, texting or talking about the latest Sanderson novel. I haven't seen any in person since the last camp, and I miss their faces dearly. I've made some buddies on my team at work and have continued lifting and staying in shape with them at lunch most days during the week, though I haven't competed in powerlifting in years due to time constraints and refusing to do so unless I get to a proper bodyfat % first. I discovered disc golf and have become nothing short of obsessed with the sport, playing a few time a month. I'm also making some slow progress toward getting a course installed in my community.

 

You'll have noticed that's Gandalf the White above, not Gandalf the Grey. That's because, though it may have taken me a bit longer than originally planned, I am now Gainsdalf the Light. I got down to 249 lb in August last year, my lightest since early 2011, and though I gained a bit back over the holidays, I'm within striking distance of getting back there again this challenge and continuing my quest for 231 lb. That is the 105kg weight class limit that I want to compete in for powerlifting. I'm not competing again until I get there. The big goal for the year is to do so and get a 1500 lb powerlifting total, all on a predominantly vegan diet.

 

 

Vegan? He, of egg monster casserole glory? He of the "bacon makes everything better" mantra? He, whom consumes 1 lb of chicken breast a day for lunch?

 

Yeah... Turns out that stuff can cause blood cholesterol issues. In my doctor's words "If you were 5 years older, I'd say you're a heart attack waiting to happen.". Bad news bears right there. I've got 2 little hobbits at home, so I have to fix that quick. I want to do it without medication, so that means fixing diet (lower LDL, increase HDL), losing weight (lower LDL), and doing cardio (Increase HDL). I stopped eating a pound of chicken a day for lunch, and lost a few pounds, which took me from a bad:good ratio of 8.2 to 5.7, where the goal is to be below 5. I am now watching the cholesterol on everything I eat, hence the heavy vegan lean, have reduced meat/dairy/egg consumption drastically all around due to diet and environmental reasons, and started running again. Once I reach 250 pounds again I'm going to get my levels rechecked.

 

My struggle lately has been keeping my weight loss consistent, so the goals this challenge will be mostly focused not so much around the number itself, but around building long term habits to support a consistent downward trend. So, what I'm thinking is:

 

Be a better faster: I generally try to keep an 8 hour window during the week and break my fast around 11, so I'm supposed to be done at 7. My kids don't get to sleep until 8:30-9:00pm, at which time I sit down and have my beer or dessert. Need to make sure to have those in my window, which should be easy as I can just have my dessert when the kids do at 7. That's slightly outside the window, but fits the intent. The big thing is not having something else when I get peckish later, and just having a glass of water to put something in my stomach. On the weekends we typically have breakfast as a family one of the days, or see friends at night, so I bend there.

 

Goal: 5 of 7 days a week making sure I'm in the 8/8.5 hour window

 

Be a better quasi-vegan: I say I'm leaning heavy vegan, so I'm not going full on no animal products. If there's meat/dairy/eggs in the dinner my wife makes, I'm having it, and if it's a separate item vs being mixed into the entire dish, I'll make sure the portion is small and load up on the other stuff, supplementing it with a sweet potato or oatmeal after if I need to. I'm not going to ask her and the family to be vegan with me, and me making my own separate meal every night wouldn't be sustainable. If I can do it this way and get my levels in check, I'm happy with it.

 

Where I need to improve is that during the day where I do make my own foods, I'm mostly having instant oatmeal twice a day, a protein shake in between with a multivitamin, and usually a snack. I get home and I snack on more empty carbs before dinner. I like the oatmeal because it's satiating for low calories, but I should really mix it up and get more varied sources for micro-nutrients for at least one of those meals, and should have a piece of fruit or something for the home snack. For now I'm going to switch one of those oatmeals to a sweet potato for variety of nutrient sources, but I need to do some reading and figure out a good, filling vegan option that I can batch make in the beginning of the week. I feel like I'm more of a carbotarian than a vegan right now. I'm perfectly capable of making a salad, but I guess I feel unknowledgeable on the whole vegan subject, so I'm doing what's easy. I need to figure out the considerations needed when building a full vegan diet, and work that into an efficient, sustainable approach that works for me.

 

Goal: Read a book about how to approaching vegan diets for strength athletes

 

Be a better sleeper: Feel like this one has been something I've put in these challenges from day 1. I'm better at catching up, such as getting a 9 hour night after two 6 hours nights vs being constantly tired at 6.5 hour every night, but I'm still not optimally getting 7+ a night. Low sleep increases cortisol levels, which screws with metabolism, which reduces weight loss. It also makes me more snacky, and likely to eat more calories, which reduces weight loss. The catch up helps to stop me from getting depression issues from being chronically tired, but on those 6 hour days I still have the snacking and metabolism problems.

 

Goal: 7 hours a night 6 nights a week.

 

Now, those are the Balrogs, but what about the barbells? There are no barbell specific goals for my challenges, as I'm always lifting and working toward long term goals there. That's a habit I've already worked into my life that no longer needs to be a part of my challenges, though it was the major theme early on. Right now my workouts consist of one of the big 4 lifts, then doing a running or cardio workout as I work on reducing my 5k time in my Quest for Spartanhood.

 

I do endeavor to post my workouts here, mainly to generate conversation among those following this thread. My goal here is to help everyone else in their lifting goals by lending an ear and sharing what I've learned over my almost 10 years (I joined November 2011) lifting here at NF, so that you guys can do silly stuff like this:

 

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

The first to rise for our anniversary special, I salute you!

 

[miss_marissa]

On 1/22/2020 at 2:27 PM, Gainsdalf the Whey said:

The big goal for the year is to do so and get a 1500 lb powerlifting total, all on a predominantly vegan diet.

WHOOOAAA!!!!! Big change Excited to see how it goes!

 

IIRC there are quite a few strongman competitors who follow a vegan diet.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

25 minutes ago, miss_marissa said:

WHOOOAAA!!!!! Big change Excited to see how it goes!

 

IIRC there are quite a few strongman competitors who follow a vegan diet.

 

I know of quite a few strength athletes that do, but don't think any have written books. I haven't found a book that fits the bill yet. I also haven't looked very hard, I'm currently working through Thrive.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

1 minute ago, Gainsdalf the Whey said:

 

I know of quite a few strength athletes that do, but don't think any have written books. I haven't found a book that fits the bill yet. I also haven't looked very hard, I'm currently working through Thrive.

So when does your book come out?

[bigm141414]

THERE IS TOO MUCH TO PROCESS IN THIS THREAD RIGHT NOW! 

 

Vegan? Does that mean you will be posting vegan egg monster recipes now too? Kendrick Farris (USA weightlifter) is vegan so the dietary style has been gaining traction over the last 10 years or so with those that compete at a high level. A lot of the old meathead bro science-y stuff is being rethought it seems. 

 

I need to go DL because I am just barely past a spezzy again and now I discover we have tooooooo big a gap. 

[Scaly Freak]

9 hours ago, bigm141414 said:

Vegan? Does that mean you will be posting vegan egg monster recipes now too? Kendrick Farris (USA weightlifter) is vegan so the dietary style has been gaining traction over the last 10 years or so with those that compete at a high level. A lot of the old meathead bro science-y stuff is being rethought it seems. 

 

Bro Science vs Real Science...coming soon to a pay per view near you!

[Harriet]

That deadlift is RAD I LOVE IT. 

[Elastigirl]

Welcome back!

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

20 hours ago, bigm141414 said:

THERE IS TOO MUCH TO PROCESS IN THIS THREAD RIGHT NOW! 

 

Vegan? Does that mean you will be posting vegan egg monster recipes now too? Kendrick Farris (USA weightlifter) is vegan so the dietary style has been gaining traction over the last 10 years or so with those that compete at a high level. A lot of the old meathead bro science-y stuff is being rethought it seems. 

 

I need to go DL because I am just barely past a spezzy again and now I discover we have tooooooo big a gap. 

 

Kendrick is definitely one of the people I'm most interested in finding out about. The vegan books I found so far are for mostly endurance athletes, which don't have all the considerations that I'm interested in. Also, I think a vegan egg monster is called solad or salid. Something like that.

 

You definitely need to DL in that case. I took a break last year from lifting when I was trying to lose weight, which was dumb. I should have at least been working up to heavy singles once every week or two. Working back up now, pulled 525 or 535 last week and adding 10 lb a week. Should make it at least into the mid to high 5s before I stall out for the initial build up based on how its feeling.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Broke my fast around 1100 with two packets of quaker instant oatmeal, then went to the gym around 1145.

 

My sets/reps format is:  weight x reps set 1, reps set 2, reps set 3. I don't try to do the same reps for sets across, so you'll rarely see weight x reps x sets, but it'll happen from time to time. Works sets may have parenthesis after the reps to describe Rate of Perceived Exertion:

 

I also use it for cardio as well, with these definitions:

 

 

Mid bar squats:

155x8 paused, 8 not paused

225x5

275x3

belt up

315x1

365x1

405x2(10)

315x7(8.5),7(9),6(8)

 

Erg Tabata, damper 6. 63kcal burned, 977 m. Completed all 8 rounds at 85%, really had to push through on the last two.

[Br0din]

to the guy who helped me here first!

 

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Be a better faster: Broke fast around 1100 yesterday and ended it at 1930 having icecream with my 3 year old. Really had to resist girl scout cookies around 2115 as I was passing through the kitchen to go play Titanfall 2.

 

Goal: 1/5 days within 8.5 hour window

 

Be a better quasi-vegan: I did a bit of online article reading last night about a vegan diets for strength athletes, and read a bit more of Thrive, a vegan diet book written by a triathlete. I'm still searching for that one book that gives really good insight into veganism for strength athletes. The Thrive diet food pyramid, by volume, consists of 45% vibrous/leafy green vegetables, 20% proteins such as legumes, seeds, and pseudograins, 20% fruits, 10% fats such as avocados, nuts, and unrefined oils, and 5% starches and grains such as brown rice, potatoes, and squash. The articles about bodybuilding as a vegan, from a calorie standpoints, were suggesting around 60% from carbs, 20% from fats, 20% from proteins.

 

Based on Thrive, I'm eating way too many grains/starches, about the right amount of fats and fruits, and too little of greens and plant based proteins. I knew my greens had to be low, same with the proteins. I am having protein powder every day for during and after my workout, so that makes up my proteins a good bit.

 

As far as macro breakdown, I'm going to start watching that. I just started tracking all my food yesterday, aside from what my wife makes for dinner, with the goal of staying below 1300 kcal outside of what she makes. With the 60/20/20 breakdown, that 1300 kcal should consist of 195g carbs/29g fats/65g protein. The protein seems low, I feel like I should be doing more of a 50/20/30 split on there. Using that ratio, the breakdown would be 163g carbs/29g fats/97g protein. That seems better. The main thing I'll be doing is stopping by 1300 kcal, and making sure fats are in the 30g ballpark and protein is in the 65-100g range.

 

Yesterday I ate oatmeal for breakfast, oatmeal and my whey shake for lunch, and a banana for a snack while at work. I had 4 thin mints as a snack while waiting for dinner and a mini klondike bar. I want to make only 1 snack a day be non-whole foods if I can, so those cookies or the ice cream should have been clementines or something like that.

 

Goal: Read a book about how to approaching vegan diets for strength athletes. Still searching, but I am learning in the mean time.

 

Be a better sleeper: I got caught up in Titanfall 2 and didn't stop until 2315, even though I told myself to put the controller down at 2230. Gotta do better as far as stopping at 2230 so I'm in bed by 2300.

 

Goal: 0/6 nights 7 hours of sleep

[Stronkey Kong]

Vegan?

 

 

But, I can actually hook you up with my Seitan and Brogo Bredd recipes.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Today's workout:

 

Superset

Overhead Press/Neutral Grip Pull Up

 

95x10/0

115x3/0

135x1/0

belt up

155x1/0

175x1(10)/0

140x7(9.5)/6(10)

130x7(10)/5(10)

120x9(9.5)/4(9.5)

 

Treadmill, 0.5 degree incline

 

1-5 min, 6.3 mph

5-15 min, 6.4 mph

15-19 min, 7.0 mph

 

1-8 min, RPE 6

8-15 min, RPE 7

15-17.5 min, RPE 8

17.5-9 min, RPE 9

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

1 minute ago, Chris Tarly said:

Vegan?

 

 

But, I can actually hook you up with my Seitan and Brogo Bredd recipes.

Throw those bad boys at me!

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

2 minutes ago, Gainsdalf the Whey said:

Throw those bad boys at me!

You won't be disappointed. 

[Stronkey Kong]

5 minutes ago, Gainsdalf the Whey said:

Throw those bad boys at me!

 

I figured these out while on a keto/pescatarian diet last summer.

The two main ingredients are vital wheat gluten and pea protein (for a complete amino acid profile).

 

1.5 cup VWG

1 cup pea protein

 

For seitan:

Stir in broth, soy sauce, and or water (or any flavored liquid you want, hell use barbeque sauce or gatorade) until it makes a ball of dough... usually 1.5-2 cups, maybe a splash more... aim for a gummy dough ball that's not dripping wet... you'll see what I mean with practice.

From there you can pan fry it, bake it, grill it... whatever. But know that it tends to puff up. If you boil it in broth it'll soak up even more and create a good substitute for chicken breast (in soups and stews anyway)

 

For Brogo Bredd:

add yeast to the dry mixture (I like no-rise pizza crust yeast, so you don't have to wait and it makes a handsome loaf).

Then mix (at least) 1 tablespoon of sugar into 1.5 cups of water (the sugar is mainly for the yeast, you can add more for taste if you want).

Pinch of salt, 2 eggs, and a 1-2 tablespoons of oil.

Mix it all good and let it rise for a few hours (usually 4 or more with regualr yeast) in the pan you're cooking it in.

 

As for working with the dough, it's super gummy and sticky, so unlike regular bread dough, you'll have an easier time cutting it than shaping it with your hands. It'll stretch, but it'll pull itself back into shape.

 

The bredd a bit spongier than most breads. Not great on it's own, but not bad for holding a few slices of meat. It's pretty awesome with pesto or nut butters. And you can throw it in soup and it won't dissolve like regualr bread. Cut it into cubes and pan fry it for protein croutons.

 

If it's not obvious, I pretty much wing it when I make it so I don't have a solid tried and true method or recipe. Good luck.

 

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

1 hour ago, Chris Tarly said:

 

I figured these out while on a keto/pescatarian diet last summer.

The two main ingredients are vital wheat gluten and pea protein (for a complete amino acid profile).

 

1.5 cup VWG

1 cup pea protein

 

For seitan:

Stir in broth, soy sauce, and or water (or any flavored liquid you want, hell use barbeque sauce or gatorade) until it makes a ball of dough... usually 1.5-2 cups, maybe a splash more... aim for a gummy dough ball that's not dripping wet... you'll see what I mean with practice.

From there you can pan fry it, bake it, grill it... whatever. But know that it tends to puff up. If you boil it in broth it'll soak up even more and create a good substitute for chicken breast (in soups and stews anyway)

 

For Brogo Bredd:

add yeast to the dry mixture (I like no-rise pizza crust yeast, so you don't have to wait and it makes a handsome loaf).

Then mix (at least) 1 tablespoon of sugar into 1.5 cups of water (the sugar is mainly for the yeast, you can add more for taste if you want).

Pinch of salt, 2 eggs, and a 1-2 tablespoons of oil.

Mix it all good and let it rise for a few hours (usually 4 or more with regualr yeast) in the pan you're cooking it in.

 

As for working with the dough, it's super gummy and sticky, so unlike regular bread dough, you'll have an easier time cutting it than shaping it with your hands. It'll stretch, but it'll pull itself back into shape.

 

The bredd a bit spongier than most breads. Not great on it's own, but not bad for holding a few slices of meat. It's pretty awesome with pesto or nut butters. And you can throw it in soup and it won't dissolve like regualr bread. Cut it into cubes and pan fry it for protein croutons.

 

If it's not obvious, I pretty much wing it when I make it so I don't have a solid tried and true method or recipe. Good luck.

 

 

I'll have to experiment with these once I get the ingredients. I make pizza dough from scratch on the regular, so I'm a bit familiar with the processes. Is the Brogo Bredd stretchy enough to use as pizza crust? Seems like at the worst it might make a solid flatbread.

[Stronkey Kong]

18 minutes ago, Gainsdalf the Whey said:

 

I'll have to experiment with these once I get the ingredients. I make pizza dough from scratch on the regular, so I'm a bit familiar with the processes. Is the Brogo Bredd stretchy enough to use as pizza crust? Seems like at the worst it might make a solid flatbread.

 

It makes a pretty decent pizza crust...

 

 

Just think when you work with it, cut it thin and patch it together. It won't roll out very well. You'll see.

 

And this recipe is meant to be completely carb free. You can add flour back in, or use other types of flour if you want to go in a different direction. But you start with solid protein.

 

Addit: First loaf

 

 

Protip: use a loaf pan and cook it till the top is hard and cripy, otherwise it deflates like this.

[Sylvaa]

Hi!

 

Have you looked into Robert Cheeke's books? Not sure if they are totally what you are looking for, but he is a vegan bodybuilder. 

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

17 hours ago, Chris Tarly said:

 

It makes a pretty decent pizza crust...

 

Just think when you work with it, cut it thin and patch it together. It won't roll out very well. You'll see.

 

And this recipe is meant to be completely carb free. You can add flour back in, or use other types of flour if you want to go in a different direction. But you start with solid protein.

 

Protip: use a loaf pan and cook it till the top is hard and cripy, otherwise it deflates like this.

 

Thanks for all the tips. Looking forward to trying it out.

 

14 hours ago, Sylvaa said:

Hi!

 

Have you looked into Robert Cheeke's books? Not sure if they are totally what you are looking for, but he is a vegan bodybuilder. 

 

Have not, I'll look him up. Thanks!

 

Challenge:

 

Be a better faster: Broke fast around 1100 with oatmeal yesterday. Lunch was a scoop and a half of whey, and I forgot to eat my sweet potato. Had a banana in the afternoon and a brownie at the coffee shop with coworkers when we went for a walk. Had a beer (Jubelale from Deschutes) and a clementine for dessert after dinner, then when my 5 year old wanted a klondkike bar for dessert, she's only allowed half of one, I ate the other half around 1930.

 

Goal: 2/5 days within 8.5 hour window

 

Be a better quasi-vegan: I have to do some meal and macro planning for next week, but am going to make the macros I talked about yesterday part of the challenge once I can. Non-dinner calories/macros yesterday were 1115kcal/174c/46p/18f. I have to get that protein up as well as the leafy greens. I'm thinking some sort of spinach salad with quinoa and black beans and an olive oil/balsamic/mustard dressing that I used to make at work. I'm also going to experiment with the brogo bredd and seitan once I have some time.

 

Goal: Read a book about how to approaching vegan diets for strength athletes.- No progress last night, but going to look into Robert Cheeke tonight. 

Goal: Eat below 1300 non-dinner calories in the 163-195 g carb/ 29g fat/ 65-97g protein range every day, starting this next week

 

Be a better sleeper: In bed by 2300, success.

 

Goal: 1/6 nights 7 hours of sleep

[bigm141414]

So since you are becoming vegan, should you change your name to Gainsdalf the Tempeh? 

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

12 hours ago, bigm141414 said:

So since you are becoming vegan, should you change your name to Gainsdalf the Tempeh? 

Oh god, I didn't even consider my name having to change... I'd probably use one of the other names from my sig.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Be a better faster: Nailed it Wednesday, no issues. Yesterday not so much. We did our Valentines day, I got a taste of some sweets, and absolutely lost my shit. I broke my fast later at noon, but didn't stop snacking until 2130.

 

Goal: 3/5 days within 8.5 hour window

 

Be a better quasi-vegan: Went 200 kcal over on Wednesday on accident, thought I had 250 left but did not when I went to log. oops. Lost my shit last night as I noted above and had 8 oreos, 5 girl scout cookies, and 6 ferrero rochers of various flavors. I felt like The Very Hungry Caterpillar by the time I laid down to bed. I expect to turn into A Beautiful Butterfly shortly...

 

Goal: Read a book about how to approaching vegan diets for strength athletes.- No progress since early this week, but going to look into Robert Cheeke next. 

Goal: Eat below 1300 non-dinner calories in the 163-195 g carb/ 29g fat/ 65-97g protein range every day, starting this next week

 

Be a better sleeper: Nailed Wednesday night. Wifey and I are trying a new experiment where we wake up at 0500 at the first alarm to stop wasting an hour a day getting non-restful sleep. That means this goal turns into being in bed by 2145 at the latest. I was a little late last night.

 

Goal: 2/6 nights 7 hours of sleep

 

On a positive note, this gives me about 1.5 guilt free hours after I shower and dress before the kids wake up to play video games or do other activities EVERY DAY. I think I'm almost finished TItanfall 2. Next, I either go back and finish Valkyria Chronicles, where I love the battle system but actively dislike the characters and storytelling, or start in with Divinity Original Sin 2, which I hear is wonderful. I believe I also have Bloodborne sitting there waiting for me as well. Looking for opinions on a path forward here. Anything should be on the table with this new time availability as the FF7 sin't due until April.

 

Todays Workout:

I haven't worked out since Tuesday as I was feeling super beat up the last few days. Not sure if its the super low calories, or lower protein.

 

Superset

Bench/Pullups

135x20/5(9.5)

185x5/0

225x3/0

265x1/0

300x3(10)

230x14(10),10(10)/4(9.5),3(10)

215x10(10)/3(10)

 

Treadmill, 0 degree incline

7.8 mph for 1 km (9.5)

3 mph for 4 min

7.8 mph for 1 km (10)

 

That's hard. Eventually I'll start adding a third on, though I have no idea what metric I'll use to progress to that.