Jump to content

Fat Burn & Building Muscles - Seeking Advice


Recommended Posts

Hi All,

 

First time posting here. So I have found myself in a bit of a dilemma. I am almost 23 years old, currently weigh 86.1KG or 190LB for some of you and I am around 178CM or 5'10'' probably at 18 - 20% Body fat now. 

 

My relationship with the gym has been very complicated I have been on and off with it since I was 17, I would stop going to gym when I was happy with how I looked in the mirror and this has been going on for the last 5 - 6 years. So, I kind of know my ins and outs with it. I have had a good physique before around 10-12% bodyfat, but I recently let myself go for over 9 months now. 

 

I am looking for a quick fix to get my old physique back of which I had lost most of my strength and gained subsiquent amount of fat around my torso and legs. I just recently took up playing football/soccer 2 - 3 times a week and just got a gym membership again. 

 

What is the most efficient way to lose fat and build muscle simultaneously, I have done it plenty of times where I let myself go and I have this thing called beginners luck or what some people may refer it to as muscles memory. What sort of program should I follow, as in strength (3 - 6 reps) or hypertrophy (6 - 12 reps) or (endurance 12 - 15 reps), I used to just mix them up or have phases where I implement hypertrophy for the first 6 weeks and then do a lower rep hypertrophy around 6 reps to maintain my strength or muscle. 

 

Please kindly recommend what you think would be the most efficient way to reach my goals which is to get back down to 80KG and be around 10% Bodyfat

 

On a side note, I am a hard gainer for my chest it seems to grow really slow in comparision to other body parts of mine what would you recommend for this case. Also, would it be okay if I skip some leg days considering I play football 2 - 3 times a week and would like to have lean legs. 

 

PS - My body type is 63% Endomorph and 37% Mesomorph, so I tend to gain muscle easier than losing fat. 

 

Thank you and have a nice day. 

 

Many Thanks,

 

Curiousconner

Link to post
12 hours ago, curiousconnor said:

Apologies Harriet, it's my first time posting here. I have editted the post and reworded a certain things. Thank you. 

 

No apology necessary. I can't really help you with getting down to 10% bodyfat, but maybe @Defining knows something about that. Meanwhile, I don't think there are any quick fixes. I think your focus in the first phase of your weight training should be about finding a programme you enjoy so that you know you can stick with it. That's honestly the most important thing. Because no programme, no matter how brilliant, can succeed without consistency in the long term. Then in the next, intermediate stage when you know all the lifts very well and have run out of beginner gains, your focus should be on going heavy enough to get strength improvements but not so heavy that you have to compromise on the amount of volume you do. I guess that should be around 70-80% of your maximum lifts most of the time. But for more details check out Greg Nuckols's guide to programming on StrongerbyScience. That's where I get my programming advice. Good luck!

  • Like 1

Let cheese and bread and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination.

Link to post
On 2/5/2020 at 2:34 AM, curiousconnor said:

I am almost 23 years old, currently weigh 86.1KG or 190LB for some of you and I am around 178CM or 5'10'' probably at 18 - 20% Body fat now. 

 

I would stop going to gym when I was happy with how I looked in the mirror and this has been going on for the last 5 - 6 years.

 

I am looking for a quick fix to get my old physique back of which I had lost most of my strength and gained subsiquent amount of fat around my torso and legs.

 

What is the most efficient way to lose fat and build muscle simultaneously,

 

Please kindly recommend what you think would be the most efficient way to reach my goals which is to get back down to 80KG and be around 10% Bodyfat

 

On a side note, I am a hard gainer for my chest it seems to grow really slow in comparision to other body parts of mine what would you recommend for this case.

 

Also, would it be okay if I skip some leg days considering I play football 2 - 3 times a week and would like to have lean legs. 

 

PS - My body type is 63% Endomorph and 37% Mesomorph, so I tend to gain muscle easier than losing fat. 

I have thoughts; please bear in mind that I'm not an expert, fitness or dietary professional, nor do I have any formal training on any of these subjects. However, here are several things that stand out to me:

 

1) Going to the gym should never be a 'go until I like how I look, and then stop'; you will run into exactly what you describe, which is yo-yo'ing weight & strength. Your physique is not a static thing, and going to the gym is a LONG TERM habit that you need to integrate into your regular routine, not just go in spurts & starts.

 

2) Working out during puberty will cause some pretty wonky results, because your body is changing so quickly already! So while it's great that you have some experience in the gym, that data probably isn't useful for predicting what will work for you now that your body is mostly done developing.

 

3) Constantly cycling your weight up and down (ie. bulking & cutting) can actually make it harder in the future for you to lose fat; this is one of MANY reasons why it's often not the healthiest choice to try to radically change your physique regularly. A steady increase in muscle over time while minimising fat gain (eg. lean gaining) is often the best choice for most folks, albeit the slower option.

 

4) I'm not a big fan of aiming for BF% OR weight goals (unless you're in a profession that requires that sort of specificity, but it doesn't sound like you're a professional athlete!), simply because you can't control how your body gains/loses fat & muscle. I'm far more supportive of aiming for REALISTIC aesthetic goals, watching how your clothes fit, and setting lifting goals instead!

 

5) You can focus on whatever body parts you want. Personally, I'd never recommend skipping leg day, especially since the additional lower body strength would be an asset for football. Likewise, you are essentially still at a 'beginner level' for weight lifting, so at this point doing targeted work for a body part like your chest isn't a great use of your time IMO. My bias is towards whole-body training for AT LEAST the first 6-9 months.

 

6) Somatotypes (endo/meso/ecto) were originally developed to describe psychology, not physiology; personally, I just call them bullshit. Classifying yourself in that way often just causes limiting beliefs (eg. I gain muscle at fat easily), rather than properly tracking activity and total kcal intakes.

 

SO! Recommendations?

 

  • Eat at your TDEE, or slightly above. Alternatively eat at a 20-30% deficit (that is 80% of your TDEE) for two weeks, then at maintenance TDEE for two weeks, then continue to alternate deficit/maintenance every two weeks until you hit the leanness that you desire.
  • Aim for at least 140-190g of protein every day.
  • Find a lifting program that you will stick with for the long haul. Don't plan on stopping it in the future. Make sure that it's balanced hinge/squat/pull/push. Especially push/pull; lots of lifters prioritise bench presses for 'chest gainz', and neglect horizontal pulling like ROWS, which keep your back and shoulders far healthier.
  • Apply progressive overload principles over time; as a beginner, you probably don't need lots of periodization to start with. A rep range between 5-10 is likely best.
  • Sleep enough (7+ hrs/night), make sure that you program in enough rest between workouts, and manage your stress as needed.

 

Don't forget to go slow, be safe, and have fun!

  • Like 1

...but I'm adorable! Ask anyone who doesn't know me...

Link to post

Defining is really one of the best experts Here on this forum that often answers these kinds of questions... and I want to add that I appreciate her expertise.

 

re-iterating one of Her points ; I dislike the body fat target.

 

for many reasons!  yes.

but lets say primarily that 10% is a very LOW target and far from where you are at.  

 

if you've googled some you've probably heard that fat has an Incredibly caloric content.  that means stupendous, amazing and even enviable weight loss might take a very Long time to ever get to that number.

 

its SO far away from you, that frankly, do you even know if its possible?  I know you said that you were JUST there 9 months ago; but you'd be surprised how far you can drift from fitness in 9months and how long it would take to get there.

 

anyways. that my very minor point to make.

 

its rather interesting to me that you had such a dramatic and quick increase in weight. in 9months; 10% to 20% in body fat? wow.

but then actually

 

there's hope in that.  your not talking about returning to something that happened years ago.

 

just Aim sensibly IMHO, do so without bodyfat% goals.  

 

again IMHO but being fit can be is own reward and you might find that how you feel and how you feel playing footy is sufficiently motivating on its own.

 

  • Thanks 1

https://rebellion.nerdfitness.com/index.php?/topic/116426-im-awake/

the "NEW" normal is good with me! as Life was Never really Normal anyways....

 

Link to post

@TGP That's very kind of you, thanks! I am, at the end of the day, just a stranger on the internet who reads too much though. ;)

 

@curiousconnor I should also clarify: I do see a lot of value in TRACKING BF%. Just like weight and girth measurements, the trends that you get from tracking over time are useful data. However most tests available to consumers to measure bodyfat percentages are QUITE inaccurate, and can give you wildly different responses between different tools. Even a DEXA, which is the gold standard to estimate BF%, has it's error margin. So rather than setting an arbitrary number, something like 'I'd like to get stronger and lose some fat; and once I stop making easy beginner gains, I will see if I want to be bigger/leaner/stronger/etc!' is maybe a less stressful way to go.

...but I'm adorable! Ask anyone who doesn't know me...

Link to post
On 2/7/2020 at 10:49 PM, Harriet said:

 

No apology necessary. I can't really help you with getting down to 10% bodyfat, but maybe @Defining knows something about that. Meanwhile, I don't think there are any quick fixes. I think your focus in the first phase of your weight training should be about finding a programme you enjoy so that you know you can stick with it. That's honestly the most important thing. Because no programme, no matter how brilliant, can succeed without consistency in the long term. Then in the next, intermediate stage when you know all the lifts very well and have run out of beginner gains, your focus should be on going heavy enough to get strength improvements but not so heavy that you have to compromise on the amount of volume you do. I guess that should be around 70-80% of your maximum lifts most of the time. But for more details check out Greg Nuckols's guide to programming on StrongerbyScience. That's where I get my programming advice. Good luck!

I will definitely be looking at some posts and forums by defining. Currently, I am just winging it thouhg I have my own programme that I haven't actually started following yet. I am going for 6 - 10 reps so I suppose that is around 70-80% of my one rep max. I will also definitely check out Greg Nuckols today at some point. 

 

Thank you Harriet :)

  • Like 1
Link to post
On 2/7/2020 at 11:11 PM, Defining said:

I have thoughts; please bear in mind that I'm not an expert, fitness or dietary professional, nor do I have any formal training on any of these subjects. However, here are several things that stand out to me:

 

1) Going to the gym should never be a 'go until I like how I look, and then stop'; you will run into exactly what you describe, which is yo-yo'ing weight & strength. Your physique is not a static thing, and going to the gym is a LONG TERM habit that you need to integrate into your regular routine, not just go in spurts & starts.

 

2) Working out during puberty will cause some pretty wonky results, because your body is changing so quickly already! So while it's great that you have some experience in the gym, that data probably isn't useful for predicting what will work for you now that your body is mostly done developing.

 

3) Constantly cycling your weight up and down (ie. bulking & cutting) can actually make it harder in the future for you to lose fat; this is one of MANY reasons why it's often not the healthiest choice to try to radically change your physique regularly. A steady increase in muscle over time while minimising fat gain (eg. lean gaining) is often the best choice for most folks, albeit the slower option.

 

4) I'm not a big fan of aiming for BF% OR weight goals (unless you're in a profession that requires that sort of specificity, but it doesn't sound like you're a professional athlete!), simply because you can't control how your body gains/loses fat & muscle. I'm far more supportive of aiming for REALISTIC aesthetic goals, watching how your clothes fit, and setting lifting goals instead!

 

5) You can focus on whatever body parts you want. Personally, I'd never recommend skipping leg day, especially since the additional lower body strength would be an asset for football. Likewise, you are essentially still at a 'beginner level' for weight lifting, so at this point doing targeted work for a body part like your chest isn't a great use of your time IMO. My bias is towards whole-body training for AT LEAST the first 6-9 months.

 

6) Somatotypes (endo/meso/ecto) were originally developed to describe psychology, not physiology; personally, I just call them bullshit. Classifying yourself in that way often just causes limiting beliefs (eg. I gain muscle at fat easily), rather than properly tracking activity and total kcal intakes.

 

SO! Recommendations?

 

  • Eat at your TDEE, or slightly above. Alternatively eat at a 20-30% deficit (that is 80% of your TDEE) for two weeks, then at maintenance TDEE for two weeks, then continue to alternate deficit/maintenance every two weeks until you hit the leanness that you desire.
  • Aim for at least 140-190g of protein every day.
  • Find a lifting program that you will stick with for the long haul. Don't plan on stopping it in the future. Make sure that it's balanced hinge/squat/pull/push. Especially push/pull; lots of lifters prioritise bench presses for 'chest gainz', and neglect horizontal pulling like ROWS, which keep your back and shoulders far healthier.
  • Apply progressive overload principles over time; as a beginner, you probably don't need lots of periodization to start with. A rep range between 5-10 is likely best.
  • Sleep enough (7+ hrs/night), make sure that you program in enough rest between workouts, and manage your stress as needed.

 

Don't forget to go slow, be safe, and have fun!

First of all, thank you for taking your time to write and reply. I am very grateful for this. 

1) Unfortunately I just get carried away with being a young adult and forget my responsibilities sometimes so I tend to swap health for fun. But I will bare in mind now to set different goals besides physique or aesthetics. 

2) I suppose that is true. What age do you stop growing and everything becomes consistent then? 

3) I dont purposely bulk and cut, I just happen to let myself go and it looks like I am bulking but I am no longer strength training so I am losing muscle and substituting those muscles fibres for fat unfortunately. Lean gaining has always been my goal, to grow muscle in the cleanest way possible.

4) One of my goals is to have clothes fit me perfectly too, but I used to prefer looking good naked over having clothes fit me nicely. Correct, I am not a professional athelete, so I have nothing to stress about. 

5) I am currently focusing on Chest more than other body parts but only for the first 2 - 3 weeks to get my strength there back up. Ofcourse with good form. I have been skipping leg day recently but will try to do body weights leg workout rather than actual weights as I also do not want huge legs to be able to fit in skinny jeans again. 6 - 9 months sounds like a drag. I was thinking it would be doable in 3 months at most. 

6) I wasn't aware of that actually, I have always believed in body composition and genetics.

 

Thank you again for your recommendations, I am not exactly counting calories, just eyeballing everything I eat but keeping my diet as clean as possible.

I am currently doing intermittent fasting with 6 hours eating window which is a bit hard for me to get in 190g of protein but I will try my best.

I do have a balanced programme but haven't been following it religiously yet because I am still experimenting with my daily routine however I will try to implement it. I am doing Push/Pull twice a week now but will need to find a day I can fit legs in there.

5 - 10 reps is exactly what I am doing now, for accessories exercise I tend to go up to 10 reps but for compound exercise I go for 6 reps or 8 reps.

I do get atleast 7 hours of sleep everyday, but stress does get the best of me sometimes which causes me to binge eat and lose sleep sometimes.

 

Thank you again Defining, I hope you have a really nice day :)

Link to post
On 2/10/2020 at 8:36 AM, TGP said:

Defining is really one of the best experts Here on this forum that often answers these kinds of questions... and I want to add that I appreciate her expertise.

 

re-iterating one of Her points ; I dislike the body fat target.

 

for many reasons!  yes.

but lets say primarily that 10% is a very LOW target and far from where you are at.  

 

if you've googled some you've probably heard that fat has an Incredibly caloric content.  that means stupendous, amazing and even enviable weight loss might take a very Long time to ever get to that number.

 

its SO far away from you, that frankly, do you even know if its possible?  I know you said that you were JUST there 9 months ago; but you'd be surprised how far you can drift from fitness in 9months and how long it would take to get there.

 

anyways. that my very minor point to make.

 

its rather interesting to me that you had such a dramatic and quick increase in weight. in 9months; 10% to 20% in body fat? wow.

but then actually

 

there's hope in that.  your not talking about returning to something that happened years ago.

 

just Aim sensibly IMHO, do so without bodyfat% goals.  

 

again IMHO but being fit can be is own reward and you might find that how you feel and how you feel playing footy is sufficiently motivating on its own.

 

I believe that with her reply to my post, I was very impressed with the effort she put into it.

 

I agree with the body fat target too, as I would be happy anywhere between 8 - 13%, however its just something I set myself to be realistic. 

 

It takes very long I also agree with that to lose fat correctly and sustainably. I have seen myself in worse states before in August 2018 I was probably 94 KG of fat and in just 3 months I managed to cut out 6 KG of weight whilst building muscle and burning fat looking at around 13-15% body fat. I believe my goal is doable within 3 months with full commitment. 

 

Some would say I am at 18% body fat now but it is still shocking how I managed to put on weight and lose muscle mass. Alcohol does wonders, ruins your metabolism rate, causes you to binge it junk food and all sorts.

 

I will be posting my transformation here in 2 - 3 months to keep you all updated.

 

Thank you for your reply. 

Link to post
12 hours ago, Defining said:

@TGP That's very kind of you, thanks! I am, at the end of the day, just a stranger on the internet who reads too much though. ;)

 

@curiousconnor I should also clarify: I do see a lot of value in TRACKING BF%. Just like weight and girth measurements, the trends that you get from tracking over time are useful data. However most tests available to consumers to measure bodyfat percentages are QUITE inaccurate, and can give you wildly different responses between different tools. Even a DEXA, which is the gold standard to estimate BF%, has it's error margin. So rather than setting an arbitrary number, something like 'I'd like to get stronger and lose some fat; and once I stop making easy beginner gains, I will see if I want to be bigger/leaner/stronger/etc!' is maybe a less stressful way to go.

You can never read too much :)

 

I am going to be taking circumference measurements monthly as the scales do not always tell the whole story. I want to maximise my beginner gains and then work my way up getting leaner, stronger and bigger simulatenously but I do not want to rush the process of the second stage. Let's see how this all work out, I will probably share my transformation here in a few months. 

Link to post
18 hours ago, curiousconnor said:

I will bare in mind now to set different goals besides physique or aesthetics.

 

What age do you stop growing and everything becomes consistent then? 

 

I used to prefer looking good naked over having clothes fit me nicely.

 

I have been skipping leg day recently but will try to do body weights leg workout rather than actual weights as I also do not want huge legs to be able to fit in skinny jeans again.

 

6 - 9 months sounds like a drag. I was thinking it would be doable in 3 months at most. 

 

Thank you again for your recommendations, I am not exactly counting calories, just eyeballing everything I eat but keeping my diet as clean as possible.

 

I am currently doing intermittent fasting with 6 hours eating window which is a bit hard for me to get in 190g of protein but I will try my best.

 

I do have a balanced programme but haven't been following it religiously yet because I am still experimenting with my daily routine however I will try to implement it. I am doing Push/Pull twice a week now but will need to find a day I can fit legs in there.

 

I do get at least 7 hours of sleep everyday, but stress does get the best of me sometimes which causes me to binge eat and lose sleep sometimes.

Hope it all works out for you! FWIW, there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to look good naked or having aesthetic goals, but it's important to also consider your health and wellbeing long-term. I also totally respect your desire not to have HUGE legs, but also bear in mind that having a lot of muscle on your upper body but not on your lower body might not end up looking as good as you think it will.

 

You can see LOTS of progress in 3 months, but I'd discourage you from thinking of exercise in terms of 'quick fix' solutions. Plan to always exercise and workout, and understand that your progress and goals may change over time. 6-9 months is the average 'honeymoon' period for beginners, where you can see lots of muscle growth and fat loss if you do it properly. If you just hop between programs and don't track how much you're eating, you may not see as much improvement.

 

If you like intermittent fasting, that's cool, but there's not necessarily a need to use it. I'd encourage you to at least aim for the lower protein recommendation, it will make a big difference in preventing fat gain while eating in a surplus, OR helping to maintain muscle while in a deficit. Again, the trick here is to create habits that will keep you healthy and active on a consistent basis for the long-term.

...but I'm adorable! Ask anyone who doesn't know me...

Link to post
On 2/12/2020 at 5:33 AM, Defining said:

Hope it all works out for you! FWIW, there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to look good naked or having aesthetic goals, but it's important to also consider your health and wellbeing long-term. I also totally respect your desire not to have HUGE legs, but also bear in mind that having a lot of muscle on your upper body but not on your lower body might not end up looking as good as you think it will.

 

You can see LOTS of progress in 3 months, but I'd discourage you from thinking of exercise in terms of 'quick fix' solutions. Plan to always exercise and workout, and understand that your progress and goals may change over time. 6-9 months is the average 'honeymoon' period for beginners, where you can see lots of muscle growth and fat loss if you do it properly. If you just hop between programs and don't track how much you're eating, you may not see as much improvement.

 

If you like intermittent fasting, that's cool, but there's not necessarily a need to use it. I'd encourage you to at least aim for the lower protein recommendation, it will make a big difference in preventing fat gain while eating in a surplus, OR helping to maintain muscle while in a deficit. Again, the trick here is to create habits that will keep you healthy and active on a consistent basis for the long-term.

 

Thank you for your reply again. I hope you are well. 

 

That's the goal at the moment, I am trying to get a football coaching job too, so if that happens I would barely have time to hit the gym, possibly twice at most a week.

 

I haven't been strict on my macros or counting calories at all, hanging my head in shame at the moment. I have had days where I binge snack. However, 80+% of the time my meals are super clean. But I think I reach my lowest protein recommendation, will try to work it out today.

 

Just a quick update for you, I started oon 86.1KG and this morning I am still the same weight but I do feel a lot better and think I look better in the mirror. Probably in that period where I am building muscle and fat is decreasing while on deficit which is great but I was expecting a much faster progression. 

Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

New here? Please check out our Privacy Policy and Community Guidelines