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Scalyfreak vs Stir Crazy: Tales from the Bunker


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11 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

Same! Though I do feel it's a little wrong to keep, and breed animals, to keep them for my own personal entertainment in a flat where they can't go outside freely.

 

I think of it this way: Cats are small and fragile animals. They are also quite a menace on the local wildlife, and they don't understand that other humans don't want cat poop in their flower beds. Keeping the cat inside keeps it safe from the dangers in the outside world, which by the way includes humans who hate cats to much they will start to feed it until it trusts them, and then they lace the food with rat poison.

 

As long as the cat is provided with adequate entertainment and exercise, it doesn't mind being exclusive an indoor cat, especially not if that's all it has ever known. I have had cats that never went outside, and I have one right now that insists on going out every evening. There are arguments for and against either method, but ultimately, as long as the cat is safe, healthy, and happy, you are doing your job.

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12 hours ago, Scalyfreak said:

Pets are fantastic company. For apartment living cats especially make fantastic room mates. :) 

When I moved to my current location, my Landlady told me I was going to have a roommate, I thought it was strange until I realized my roommate is a Chonky cat whom I won over with ear and back scratches.

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15 hours ago, Scalyfreak said:

I think of it this way: Cats are small and fragile animals. They are also quite a menace on the local wildlife, and they don't understand that other humans don't want cat poop in their flower beds. Keeping the cat inside keeps it safe from the dangers in the outside world, which by the way includes humans who hate cats to much they will start to feed it until it trusts them, and then they lace the food with rat poison.

But all of this is true only because we're breeding cats for our own enjoyment.

 

15 hours ago, Scalyfreak said:

As long as the cat is provided with adequate entertainment and exercise, it doesn't mind being exclusive an indoor cat, especially not if that's all it has ever known. I have had cats that never went outside, and I have one right now that insists on going out every evening. There are arguments for and against either method, but ultimately, as long as the cat is safe, healthy, and happy, you are doing your job.

Just because humans are happy and comfortable living in a box doesn't mean it's good for them or that they should never be let out. I don't see why the same shouldn't be true for cats.

 

But I won't say more on this topic, the LAST thing I want to do is making people feel bad about having pets just because I have a weird thing! And even then I might still get a pet at some point so take it all with a pinch of salt.

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19 hours ago, Mike Wazowski said:

Look into how cat proof in general my apartment is

Our place was absolutely not cat proof at all when we got Wraith.  We have spent a lot of time upgrading the place to cat proof it and now I am confident in saying after all that it is now probably about 14% cat proof.

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7 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

But all of this is true only because we're breeding cats for our own enjoyment.


Domestic cats are not that different to wild cats except in their temperament & reaction to humans, I think. 

 

So, I am interested in this topic. I was very much swept up in animal rights philosophy as a youngster, but dropped it when I found my own animal needs conflicted with the interests of other species. So I'm looking for a more nuanced position.

 

Mr Harriet was telling me about his animals rights readings last night (he's a philosopher, and a vegan colleague wants him to co-write a paper on the ethics of veganism... Mr Harriet will write from the consumer ethics side of things). To simplify, we were discussing whether we have negative, positive, general, or special obligations to animals*.


*Negative rights mean you have to refrain from doing something, like harming. Positive rights means someone is entitled to something, like resources or the vote. Obligations can be specific, when they're based on existing relationships such as a family relationship, citizenship, or a trade relationship with another nation. Or they can be general, when they're based on innate characteristics of the rights-bearer--for example, we have a general obligation not to harm people on account of their status as sentient beings with preferences.

 

I think we have a general negative obligation not to cause unnecessary harm to animals simply because they are capable of suffering and having preferences. I also think we have special negative & positive obligations to domestic animals to ensure their lives are reasonably comfortable, and that they can enact species-appropriate behaviours. Because our own interests as human animals sometimes conflict with the preferences of non-humans, this is always a compromise rather than perfection. I mean, our own lives as humans are not perfect, so how can we demand that for animals? 
 

When it comes to pets, I think they're doing fine. They're generally free from distress, and they have opportunities to act out natural behaviours. For cats, that includes hunting, grooming, nesting and sleeping. Of course, their hunting is just play, but it seems close enough to make them happy. It's closer than most humans get to an ideal life free from distress and with the opportunity to perform natural behaviours... I think this life might even be more pleasing to them than a wild life. Keep in mind nature doesn't give a toss if its creatures are happy or stressed out of their minds. It only cares that they live long enough to reproduce. So losing a little bit of wildness can be a net positive for a lot of creatures.

I think it's rather our livestock we should be ashamed about. We could do much better there. Even if we kill them to eat (I am in favour), we ought to keep them so that their lives are reasonable beforehand... even if that would make keeping them more expensive and mean that we eat a bit less meat. 

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16 minutes ago, Harriet said:

When it comes to pets, I think they're doing fine. They're generally free from distress, and they have opportunities to act out natural behaviours. For cats, that includes hunting, grooming, nesting and sleeping. Of course, their hunting is just play, but it seems close enough to make them happy. It's closer than most humans get to an ideal life free from distress and with the opportunity to perform natural behaviours... I think this life might even be more pleasing to them than a wild life. Keep in mind nature doesn't give a toss if its creatures are happy or stressed out of their minds. It only cares that they live long enough to reproduce. So losing a little bit of wildness can be a net positive for a lot of creatures.

 

I have always been saying that if reincarnation is real and what happens when we die, I want to come back as someone's beloved pet cat. Domestic cats live lives of complete leisure and pleasure, never have to do anything the don't want to (aside from visiting the vet), and when they don't sleep, they either play or eat, or enjoy being loved. This sounds great. I can't wait to be reincarnated as someone's well-loved pet. :)

 

Regarding the rest of your post, I firmly believe that taking in a pet creates strong obligations towards the animal, regardless of its species. For example, our three sidekicks are completely dependent on us for their safety and well-being. Because we are the ones who put them in that situation, we are obligated to do everything in our power to see to their physical needs, their mental health, and to give them plenty of opportunities to act out those natural behaviors - and also to occasionally make them miserable fora short time if that keeps them safer in the long run. Prime example: Spay and neuter and vaccinate your pets!

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On 3/27/2020 at 10:02 AM, Scalyfreak said:

 

One of the joys of cats is watching those personalities develop and thrive over time. Adult cats from a shelter often take a while to warm up to their new human and fully bond with them, and they won't show off their full personality until that happens.

 

On that note, please adopt an adult or senior cat. Everyone wants the kittens, without realizing what the the baby year and teenager phase really means, and meanwhile the older cats sometimes sit in the shelter for months because they're not "cute little kittens", or because they are afraid and stressed in the shelter environment, so they don't act friendly to visitors. And for some reason, no one wants black cats. :( 

 

You guys are making me miss having cats LOL. And I never understood the whole superstition around black cats (and black dogs). 

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1 hour ago, Jupiter said:

You guys are making me miss having cats LOL. And I never understood the whole superstition around black cats (and black dogs). 

 

After having had fluffy light cats whose fur shows up on all my clothing, I am highly in favour of black cats. 

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1. Continue lifting regularly with the adjustable dumbbells. I've got a short and pretty simple program created for myself now. I start with dead bugs with the old swiss ball I found in the upstairs guestroom, and then I do my lifts. I may replace the seated rowing I do with the resistance tubes with modified pushups if the rowing stops being a challenge.

 

2. Continue meditating every day. Still struggling to remember this on weekends, but I have been doing it every work day. I do need to start remembering this for Saturdays and Sundays as well.

 

3. Continue going for daily walks in the sun with Happy Sidekick and Husband. This has been happening every day that was not very raining. Rain is unpleasant. 

 

4. Find one thing every day that Procrastination thinks can wait. Okay, so this was a bit more challenging that I thought. But I have downloaded and installed Duolingo to my phone, and created an account so I can start trying to recover the German I studied in high school but have not used since then.  I've been doing Duolingo for a few days now, and it's surprisingly fun. 

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14 hours ago, Harriet said:

 

After having had fluffy light cats whose fur shows up on all my clothing, I am highly in favour of black cats. 

 

I have black and white cats, and it's the black fur that ends up all over everything....

 

47 minutes ago, Scalyfreak said:

1. Continue lifting regularly with the adjustable dumbbells. I've got a short and pretty simple program created for myself now. I start with dead bugs with the old swiss ball I found in the upstairs guestroom, and then I do my lifts. I may replace the seated rowing I do with the resistance tubes with modified pushups if the rowing stops being a challenge.

 

2. Continue meditating every day. Still struggling to remember this on weekends, but I have been doing it every work day. I do need to start remembering this for Saturdays and Sundays as well.

 

3. Continue going for daily walks in the sun with Happy Sidekick and Husband. This has been happening every day that was not very raining. Rain is unpleasant. 

 

4. Find one thing every day that Procrastination thinks can wait. Okay, so this was a bit more challenging that I thought. But I have downloaded and installed Duolingo to my phone, and created an account so I can start trying to recover the German I studied in high school but have not used since then.  I've been doing Duolingo for a few days now, and it's surprisingly fun. 

 

Sounds like you're doing great! I think one definite side effect of the state of the world is people rediscovering the joy of going out walking with loved ones.

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17 minutes ago, starsapart said:

I have black and white cats, and it's the black fur that ends up all over everything....

 

90% of my clothes are black, so all the black fur isn't very visible. It's the white and gray fur from the fluffy Mellow Sidekick that becomes annoying. :) 

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On 3/28/2020 at 6:12 PM, Harriet said:

I think it's rather our livestock we should be ashamed about. We could do much better there. Even if we kill them to eat (I am in favour), we ought to keep them so that their lives are reasonable beforehand... even if that would make keeping them more expensive and mean that we eat a bit less meat. 

Agreed. And honestly we could all stand to learn to cook the whole animal. 

 

1 hour ago, Scalyfreak said:

4. Find one thing every day that Procrastination thinks can wait. Okay, so this was a bit more challenging that I thought. But I have downloaded and installed Duolingo to my phone, and created an account so I can start trying to recover the German I studied in high school but have not used since then.  I've been doing Duolingo for a few days now, and it's surprisingly fun. 

I've done the same a couple times now, but never quite stuck to it. Maybe we can try to converse in German and then Harriet can correct us ;) 

For your challenge goals this week; Sehr gut! 

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4 hours ago, Scalyfreak said:

 

90% of my clothes are black, so all the black fur isn't very visible. It's the white and gray fur from the fluffy Mellow Sidekick that becomes annoying. :) 

 

I had this same problem with my black and white cat. I never noticed her black fur but her white fur was always everywhere. 

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5 hours ago, Scalyfreak said:

Rain is unpleasant. 


Yes. It downgrades my motivation by twenty points. Even just a grey sky subtracts ten points. 

 

5 hours ago, Scalyfreak said:

so I can start trying to recover the German I studied in high school but have not used since then. 

 

4 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Maybe we can try to converse in German and then Harriet can correct us ;) 


Geil. As long as you don't mind picking up my mistakes :P  I'm fluent but rough. Especially with written German. 

 

5 hours ago, starsapart said:

I have black and white cats, and it's the black fur that ends up all over everything....

 

28 minutes ago, Jupiter said:

I had this same problem with my black and white cat. I never noticed her black fur but her white fur was always everywhere. 

 

Okay, so we need the opposite of black-and-white-cats, namely, neither-black-nor-white-cats. They're non-black AND non-white. Their fur shows up on nothing. 

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1 minute ago, Harriet said:

Okay, so we need the opposite of black-and-white-cats, namely, neither-black-nor-white-cats. They're non-black AND non-white. Their fur shows up on nothing.

 

LOL yes, this will fix everything. :D 

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30 minutes ago, Harriet said:

Okay, so we need the opposite of black-and-white-cats, namely, neither-black-nor-white-cats. They're non-black AND non-white. Their fur shows up on nothing. 

 

More likely it will show up on everything, because that's how cats do things.

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15 minutes ago, Scalyfreak said:

More likely it will show up on everything, because that's how cats do things.

 

Black and white cats show up on everything. Non-black-and-non-white cats show up on nothing: they won't show up on light fabrics because they're non-black. And they won't show up on dark fabrics because they're non-white. You must understand the incredibly magical nature of the not-piebald cat. 

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26 minutes ago, Harriet said:

Black and white cats show up on everything. Non-black-and-non-white cats show up on nothing: they won't show up on light fabrics because they're non-black. And they won't show up on dark fabrics because they're non-white.

 

...and their name is Schrödinger...?

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22 minutes ago, Scalyfreak said:

 

...and their name is Schrödinger...?


I was thinking Antipiebald and Unmagpie. Annie-pie and Un-maggi for short. But they don't come when called, obviously. They're cats. They'll just look at you with eyes that are neither green nor yellow. 

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Reading this, I see three solutions.

 

1. Get a naked cat. Or shave it.

2. Match all your furniture and clothing to the cat. Make sure all your cats have the same color.

3. Dye your cat.

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8 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Reading this, I see three solutions.

 

1. Get a naked cat. Or shave it.

2. Match all your furniture and clothing to the cat. Make sure all your cats have the same color.

3. Dye your cat.

 

I was about to say...

 

giphy.gif

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19 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Agreed. And honestly we could all stand to learn to cook the whole animal. 

 

6 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

Uhhhh.....  Living in a place where they do cook the whole animal I'm not sure I'm really in favor of this.

 

Unfortunately my meat preferences were firmly set early in life. I struggle to even eat fish. Plus, the bits we don' want can be used to feed our non-black&-non-white cats. Or formed into chicken nuggets. Or encapsulated as liver pills. Or... fed to eagles. IDK...

 

8 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

1. Get a naked cat. Or shave it.

2. Match all your furniture and clothing to the cat. Make sure all your cats have the same color.

3. Dye your cat.

 

1. Nooo! Fluff is the best part, next to the purring.

2. Yes, quite possibly. 

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