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WhiteGhost

WhiteGhost Sticks to the Plan

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21 hours ago, fleaball said:

Here's your next next one. Also NSFW.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Okay. I'm done now.

Sorry, I don't do easy songs like that, do you have anything with a little bit higher difficulty rating???

 

20 hours ago, Red1263 said:

Thank you @starsapart and @dancezwithkittehz for the future workout videos! And @fleaball for the ASL videos!

^^^This

 

16 hours ago, analoggirl said:

Alternating between (strictish) structure and lack of structure works for me as well :)

 

The different Stick to the Plan pictures add a nice touch to your thread interior design. I like. (Sometimes I just HAVE to phrase something in a certain way or I feel like I am not expressing myself exactly as I want to. This was one of those times :D )

Honestly I don't even know what works and what doesn't, so I am just throwing things against the wall until something sticks.  However, nothing seems to stick forever, so I need to keep throwing things over and over again while I see what works for me FOR NOW :D 

 

The GIFs as a separation between replies and updates is an idea I stole from Raptron

 

7 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Do you think it is a priority at all? 

Oh absolutely.  They have doing a lot over the last few years and have been making gradual progress.  It is not an immediate process, though, so patience is the name of the game

 

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Yesterday did not go to plan.  Well, maybe partly to plan.

 

I got up in the morning and did the hip module for MyFlex and then had every intention of doing a workout, but instead got sucked into a D&D conversation on Discord for our Saltmarsh campaign.  Not gonna complain, though.  Totally worth it :D 

 

After that was over I was going to do a real workout but instead I ended up just doing handstands and then moved on to pike pushups and HSPU negatives to feel out the differences/similarities.  I implemented all of the stuff I have learned from @PaulG and @@mu and the pike pushups were a much more useful exercise than my past attempts, but when I did some freestanding HSPU negatives I felt that the mechanics were significantly different, to the point that I wonder just how much carry over there is.  It could be because my handstand form  is far from standard but I feel like the way my back curves in a handstand is so different from the pike pushups that it engages the muscles completely differently.  I think I am going to stick with the freestanding work for now because I think it will ultimately be more useful for me.

 

 

 

By the time I finished with this it was already mid afternoon, so I warmed up some leftovers for lunch and then was getting ready to run when I got a message from Ghostess letting me know that she discovered there is a Sam's Club very close to her new office, and suggested we come out and join her to check it out.  I worked with Ghostlet to finish up the last of his schoolwork for the week (yesterday was a make up school day from the May Day holiday) but he couldn't get it done until 5, so we wouldn't have time to go meet Ghostess.  Ghostess ended up going to Sam's Club by herself and I got my run in, doing 1 hour on the treadmill getting in just over 8km.  After I finished, I thought about how to study Chinese but I just couldn't find anything that grabbed my interest, so instead I got on Duolingo and started learning the Arabic alphabet, which was actually kind of fun.  

 

The Plan called for sketching yesterday but I didn't get to it.  After my duolingo Ghostess came home with a giant bag of really high quality beef from the US, way better than we are able to get through local channels.  For dinner we had Yakiniku and it was INCRDIBLE.  You have no idea how much I have missed good beef.  It was like heaven :)  Ghostess said they even have cheese there, so we are going to go back next weekend.  The timing couldn't be better because the only cheese I have left is a tiny block (1 meal worth) of Asiago.

 

After dinner I was going to play with Ghostlet but he was busy playing PUBG with his friends online so I just got on Skyrim and played until bedtime.

 

 

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5 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

Honestly I don't even know what works and what doesn't, so I am just throwing things against the wall until something sticks.  However, nothing seems to stick forever, so I need to keep throwing things over and over again while I see what works for me FOR NOW :D 

 

Ohhh I said it like I had more of a system than spaghetti throwing. I don't :D And I accept that!... for the most part haha

 

5 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

The GIFs as a separation between replies and updates is an idea I stole from Raptron

 

Credit where credit is due! I like it.

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7 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

After that was over I was going to do a real workout but instead I ended up just doing handstands and then moved on to pike pushups and HSPU negatives to feel out the differences/similarities.  I implemented all of the stuff I have learned from @PaulG and @@mu and the pike pushups were a much more useful exercise than my past attempts, but when I did some freestanding HSPU negatives I felt that the mechanics were significantly different, to the point that I wonder just how much carry over there is.  It could be because my handstand form  is far from standard but I feel like the way my back curves in a handstand is so different from the pike pushups that it engages the muscles completely differently.  I think I am going to stick with the freestanding work for now because I think it will ultimately be more useful for me.

 

 

It reminds me the discussion you had with Mad Hatter on 1-arm HS a little bit. You could get to a full HSPU with a back arched, why not. The same way you could do arched push-ups feet on the floor. But you are indeed engaging completely different muscles when you arch your back. This is a snippet from Overcoming Gravity by Steven Low (HSPU progression section):

When we arch, we also let the trapezius and pectoralis muscles become prime movers as the shoulder angle closes. This is a great way to not only emphasize incorrect neural patterns but build general strength in the wrong muscles for the movement as well. To compound this, arching makes the body less aware of its position as tension is lost through the core and hips.”

That's a pretty negative feedback, but if you want to train it arching why not after all, I'm not aware of possible risk of injuries but as you noticed yourself, it's not the same mechanics.

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12 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

After my duolingo Ghostess came home with a giant bag of really high quality beef from the US, way better than we are able to get through local channels.  For dinner we had Yakiniku and it was INCRDIBLE.  You have no idea how much I have missed good beef.  It was like heaven :)  Ghostess said they even have cheese there, so we are going to go back next weekend.  The timing couldn't be better because the only cheese I have left is a tiny block (1 meal worth) of Asiago.

 

One of the things I hope will come out of this pandemic, when it ever ends, is that we all collectively learn to be more appreciative of things we used to take for granted. Good food readily available is one of them. 

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5 hours ago, @mu said:

It reminds me the discussion you had with Mad Hatter on 1-arm HS a little bit. You could get to a full HSPU with a back arched, why not. The same way you could do arched push-ups feet on the floor. But you are indeed engaging completely different muscles when you arch your back. This is a snippet from Overcoming Gravity by Steven Low (HSPU progression section):

Hmm not quite, the OAHS discussion was more about throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping something would stick. ;) My opinion, based on observing other people's extensive grind and suffering, is that it's such an extremely technical skill you have to make sure to train the right things. Especially given the impossibly bonkers period WG wanted to do it in.

 

For HSPU I'm honestly not sure what the problem is with an arched back. That's what they looked like 50 years ago before the straight HS aesthetics came in. Contortionists do extremely arched HSPUs as a staple trick. If we talk about progressions from the HSPU I can't think of many, there's the move that goes down to elbow lever (can't remember what it's called) but that can also be done both ways, and there's also the dynamic version which uses a more arched position. Maybe I'm missing something, but why would it be considered wrong? It can hardly be because of an increased injury risk. Curious.

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15 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but why would it be considered wrong? It can hardly be because of an increased injury risk. Curious.

 

Mhm where did I say it was wrong? If you read my comment again, I said why not train arched indeed and even said it twice. It's still a feat of strength to achieve either imo. But the mechanics are different. I reacted with in mind the type of HSPU I referred to in PaulG's thread.  For that one, arching the back is definitely counterproductive while pike presses will have carry over, at least that's what the literature and the few programmes I have come across for that type of HSPU say. WhiteGhost is thinking about it the other way around. And why not indeed?  It did remind me of the 1-arm HS conversation with respect to experimenting outside the beaten paths which I actually find quite interesting, at least that was my view.

 

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17 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

when I did some freestanding HSPU negatives I felt that the mechanics were significantly different, to the point that I wonder just how much carry over there is.  It could be because my handstand form  is far from standard but I feel like the way my back curves in a handstand is so different from the pike pushups that it engages the muscles completely differently.

 

Looking at your handstand, I think you're probably right. It made me think of the same Steven Low quote @@mu shared, that the arched back places your chest and trapezius (trapezii?) in a much more advantaged position. The angle of your chest to your hands looks closer to an incline bench press than an OHP, actually. You could probably modify the pikes to hit that angle better, but if you're working on transitioning from a wall to freestanding HSPU's, crow-barring pikes into your routine would probably be too big a step back in strength to be useful.

 

2 hours ago, @mu said:

For that one, arching the back is definitely counterproductive while pike presses will have carry over, at least that's what the literature and the few programmes I have come across for that type of HSPU say

 

I've seen the same. Low definitely trashes on the arched back handstand, I'm sure because as a relatively young gymnast he learned it in a specific way and has the most experience with how the hollow body handstand carries over to other skills. Maybe if we sat him down and quizzed him on why he prefers one over the other, we'd learn something interesting. IIRC, I think Rippetoe says some similar things in Starting Strength about incline bench vs OHP, but I can't really remember why he likes OHP better, I think it was some diatribe or other about functional strength for the football athletes he used to coach. Rippetoe loves his diatribes.

 

But whether one way is better for a certain goal than the other, I don't know. I think it's important to acknowledge the difference, but assuming none of us are going to snap our backs or shoulders in half, I'm mostly just curious to see where we each take it. FWIW, I'm going to keep practicing with a straight back because I think reinforcing a hollow body is important to the parkour-ish skills I like to practice. Gotta protect the spine under those heavy dynamic loads. It makes sense that would be important for circus too, like you're practicing @mu. I'm also curious about the aesthetic bias in the gymnastics community you referenced, @Mad Hatter -- is this something you've seen folks argue about a lot?

 

Btw WG, that chicken teriyaki and broccoli looked damn tasty. Any chance you'd give up the recipe? :D

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15 hours ago, analoggirl said:

 

Ohhh I said it like I had more of a system than spaghetti throwing. I don't :D And I accept that!... for the most part haha

 

 

Credit where credit is due! I like it.

I get bored easily with the same thing over and over, so I do the spaghetti thing as part of an intentional strategy. :D I know that it isn't as productive as a focused plan (like @@mu ) but I'll take the slower gains because the distractions and variety are worth it for me.

 

13 hours ago, @mu said:

 

It reminds me the discussion you had with Mad Hatter on 1-arm HS a little bit. You could get to a full HSPU with a back arched, why not. The same way you could do arched push-ups feet on the floor. But you are indeed engaging completely different muscles when you arch your back. This is a snippet from Overcoming Gravity by Steven Low (HSPU progression section):

When we arch, we also let the trapezius and pectoralis muscles become prime movers as the shoulder angle closes. This is a great way to not only emphasize incorrect neural patterns but build general strength in the wrong muscles for the movement as well. To compound this, arching makes the body less aware of its position as tension is lost through the core and hips.”

That's a pretty negative feedback, but if you want to train it arching why not after all, I'm not aware of possible risk of injuries but as you noticed yourself, it's not the same mechanics.

With all due respect to Mr. Low, he probably has great overhead mobility and therefore has a choice between arching or not arching.  If I also had that option, I would consider straight back but let's face reality, my handstands are never going to be gymnast straight.  If the back is going to be bent in the handstand anyway, I don't see any reason to try to straighten it out for the pushup.  This strategy is probably going to limit me if I ever get to HS -> Planche, but honestly I think that is a bit of a pipe dream.

 

8 hours ago, Scalyfreak said:

 

One of the things I hope will come out of this pandemic, when it ever ends, is that we all collectively learn to be more appreciative of things we used to take for granted. Good food readily available is one of them. 

Yes, let's all please be more grateful for the wonderful things we DO have and not take everything for granted.  being able to buy cheese here, is more than cold have ever hoped for.  I used to buy a year supply on my annual trip back to the US so my "year supply" was usually about 10-15 lbs.  

 

7 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Hmm not quite, the OAHS discussion was more about throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping something would stick. ;) My opinion, based on observing other people's extensive grind and suffering, is that it's such an extremely technical skill you have to make sure to train the right things. Especially given the impossibly bonkers period WG wanted to do it in.

 

For HSPU I'm honestly not sure what the problem is with an arched back. That's what they looked like 50 years ago before the straight HS aesthetics came in. Contortionists do extremely arched HSPUs as a staple trick. If we talk about progressions from the HSPU I can't think of many, there's the move that goes down to elbow lever (can't remember what it's called) but that can also be done both ways, and there's also the dynamic version which uses a more arched position. Maybe I'm missing something, but why would it be considered wrong? It can hardly be because of an increased injury risk. Curious.

In retrospect my OAHS plan was pretty much pure fantasy, but I am still working on it in a more realistic way now.  It was a fun ride though :D 

 

7 hours ago, Sloth the Enduring said:

Chinese Sam’s Club just blew my mind.

They actually have been here for a while, but the one up by the airport in "Little America" is super disappointing.  It was small and most of the stuff they had was either domestically made or very low end, super disappointing stuff.  We went once and never went back.  The new one down in YiZhuang is twice the size and stocked like the ones in the US (according to Ghostess's description).  I will see for myself next weekend :)  

 

5 hours ago, @mu said:

 

Mhm where did I say it was wrong? If you read my comment again, I said why not train arched indeed and even said it twice. It's still a feat of strength to achieve either imo. But the mechanics are different. I reacted with in mind the type of HSPU I referred to in PaulG's thread.  For that one, arching the back is definitely counterproductive while pike presses will have carry over, at least that's what the literature and the few programmes I have come across for that type of HSPU say. WhiteGhost is thinking about it the other way around. And why not indeed?  It did remind me of the 1-arm HS conversation with respect to experimenting outside the beaten paths which I actually find quite interesting, at least that was my view.

 

Thinking about this, the kind of strength that comes from a good pike press could be useful so I will still keep them around, I just won't be using them as a HSPU progression :) 

 

2 hours ago, PaulG said:

Looking at your handstand, I think you're probably right. It made me think of the same Steven Low quote @@mu shared, that the arched back places your chest and trapezius (trapezii?) in a much more advantaged position. The angle of your chest to your hands looks closer to an incline bench press than an OHP, actually. You could probably modify the pikes to hit that angle better, but if you're working on transitioning from a wall to freestanding HSPU's, crow-barring pikes into your routine would probably be too big a step back in strength to be useful.

I think you are correct, which I am really not going to complain too loudly about, because I can lift much more in an incline bench than I can in OHP, so that's a huge advantage from the get go

 

2 hours ago, PaulG said:

I've seen the same. Low definitely trashes on the arched back handstand, I'm sure because as a relatively young gymnast he learned it in a specific way and has the most experience with how the hollow body handstand carries over to other skills. Maybe if we sat him down and quizzed him on why he prefers one over the other, we'd learn something interesting. IIRC, I think Rippetoe says some similar things in Starting Strength about incline bench vs OHP, but I can't really remember why he likes OHP better, I think it was some diatribe or other about functional strength for the football athletes he used to coach. Rippetoe loves his diatribes.

 

But whether one way is better for a certain goal than the other, I don't know. I think it's important to acknowledge the difference, but assuming none of us are going to snap our backs or shoulders in half, I'm mostly just curious to see where we each take it. FWIW, I'm going to keep practicing with a straight back because I think reinforcing a hollow body is important to the parkour-ish skills I like to practice. Gotta protect the spine under those heavy dynamic loads. It makes sense that would be important for circus too, like you're practicing @mu. I'm also curious about the aesthetic bias in the gymnastics community you referenced, @Mad Hatter -- is this something you've seen folks argue about a lot?

There may very well be some kind of real advantage for straight back over arched back beyond just aesthetics, but like I said above, it is purely theoretical for me because I don't have the overhead mobility to do a straight back handstand.  If I ever get so that I can do one, I can think about modifying my HSPU to match.  I think this is highly unlikely, though.

 

2 hours ago, PaulG said:

 

Btw WG, that chicken teriyaki and broccoli looked damn tasty. Any chance you'd give up the recipe?

I just googled for a recipe and picked this one because they all looked pretty much the same

 

How many of you would actually stick to a plan 100% ? If y… | Flickr

 

 

Yesterday went pretty much off the rails for most of the day

 

I started out doing our tele-church meeting in the morning which was lovely.  We had a Mother's Day service which are always nice.  One of the members calls it Mothering Day, so that it includes all those who act as mothers in some fashion and is much more inclusive than the normal definition.  I like that.

 

After church I cooked up some thick, juicy sirloin steaks that Ghostess brought home from the store.  They were sooooooo good.  American beef is just not even comparable to Chinese domestic stuff and boy howdy have I missed it.  I took a picture but forgot to upload it to IG, so you are just going to have to imagine what it looked like.

 

After lunch, the plan was to get some reading in, but Ghostlet wanted me to play Halo with him so we did that instead.  Not a bad way to spend an afternoon :)  We made it most of the way through Reach before I had to stop and make dinner.  Dinner was Japanese style curry and salmon sashimi, the latter of which was also something Ghostess found at Sam's Club     

 

I had to laugh when Ghostess pulled the salmon out of the grocery bag, because just the day before I was talking to @starsapart about how much we love salmon but can't get any right now.

 

After dinner, Ghostlet was playing Minecraft with his classmates so I had some free time and could have done my reading.  Instead I just played Skyrim.  Oh well, at least it was fun :) 

 

 

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Beef and salmon, that could never be a bad day.

 

50 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

I just googled for a recipe and picked this one because they all looked pretty much the same

 

Haha, fair enough. I followed that link and my immediate thought was:

 

The author of this recipe looks like she's writing it in fear for her own life.

 

180CBD6C-A7A9-4754-8E16-1658775B4BF2-150

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2 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

With all due respect to Mr. Low, he probably has great overhead mobility and therefore has a choice between arching or not arching.  If I also had that option, I would consider straight back but let's face reality, my handstands are never going to be gymnast straight. 

 

In handstand you are on straight arms so yes mobility over head can be an issue but as soon as you start bending yours arms, this is no longer the case.

 

2 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

This strategy is probably going to limit me if I ever get to HS -> Planche, but honestly I think that is a bit of a pipe dream.

 

I don't think you should send that in the dream category, for the same reason as above. You don't need overhead mobility for planche but arching the back (whether you come from HS or are lifting up) is unlikely to help.

 

2 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

I think you are correct, which I am really not going to complain too loudly about, because I can lift much more in an incline bench than I can in OHP, so that's a huge advantage from the get go

 

Well, here we go :P and nothing is preventing you from training arched HSPU if you want to really. I still think that at some point, whether it's arched HSPU or not, you do need to develop enough anterior delt and triceps strength to be able to push back up. Using your chest in the negative will prevent you from doing that, it's not a question of aesthetics for that specific matter.

Or  you could choose to go into a deeper back bend at the bottom to leverage your weight into a more favourable chest pushing position. Otherwise your legs will keep falling out as you try to push up.

 

Wooof, that salmon sashimi is looking super yummy!

 

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9 hours ago, @mu said:

Mhm where did I say it was wrong? If you read my comment again, I said why not train arched indeed and even said it twice. It's still a feat of strength to achieve either imo. 

Sorry, not you, I was referring to the Stephen Low quote. :) I strongly suspect it's only wrong for gymnastics.

 

6 hours ago, PaulG said:

But whether one way is better for a certain goal than the other, I don't know. I think it's important to acknowledge the difference, but assuming none of us are going to snap our backs or shoulders in half, I'm mostly just curious to see where we each take it. FWIW, I'm going to keep practicing with a straight back because I think reinforcing a hollow body is important to the parkour-ish skills I like to practice. Gotta protect the spine under those heavy dynamic loads. It makes sense that would be important for circus too, like you're practicing @mu. I'm also curious about the aesthetic bias in the gymnastics community you referenced, @Mad Hatter -- is this something you've seen folks argue about a lot?

Hmmm, then again even in parkour you see loads of cool arched back tricks, like down monkeys and handsprings off of obstacles. But also for bailing. Ideally you'll want to land in an optimal position, but in reality there's an infinite amount of ways to bail and if things go very wrong it might be with an arched back. Not saying it's a reason to train HSPUs with an arched back, just that it's good to be strong and mobile in all ranges for parkour. :)

 

Gymnastics has a very strict code, skills are supposed to look one way and one way only otherwise you get deductions. It's not really an argument.

In circus there's obviously a lot more flexibility, but the basis is always a straight arm handstand and this is for efficiency reasons. A circus act is several minutes long so it's easier to have a "resting" HS that's more stacked on the bone structure than requiring muscle engagement.

Having said that, there's a certain amount of fetishizing the straight line HS at the moment. You even see it in beginners that are so concerned with achieving a perfect line that they shy away from practicing the balance part. But a perfect straight line is neither needed nor possible to achieve in many individuals. If you look at strongmen of the past they had arched handstands, even on one arm. At that time a smooth curve from shoulders to feet was considered the aesthetic choice. :) And it worked just fine. However there are skills to which the shape doesn't translate, like for the press to handstand. And if you do shapes like tuck and pike you'll have to make compensations which can put a lot of unnecessary stress on the wrists (assuming the arch is caused by lack of shoulder mobility) which is not ideal for a circus artist. There's a big difference in doing a few handstands here and there and training for hours each day.

Uh ok I'm done sorry, I got off on a tangent here. :D 

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47 minutes ago, @mu said:

In handstand you are on straight arms so yes mobility over head can be an issue but as soon as you start bending yours arms, this is no longer the case.

In theory, maybe, but in practical terms (for me anyway) it just shifts the issue from the shoulders to the wrists, which doesn't help.  Balance just isn't going to happen without that arched back.  Since I don't see a problem with this, I am not going to worry about getting the back straight.

 

49 minutes ago, @mu said:

I don't think you should send that in the dream category, for the same reason as above. You don't need overhead mobility for planche but arching the back (whether you come from HS or are lifting up) is unlikely to help.

No, but I do need wrist mobility or I need to shift my hand placement to optimize for planches which is going to be suboptimal for handstands.  I agree that the arched back work is not going to be super helpful for planches, though.

 

51 minutes ago, @mu said:

you do need to develop enough anterior delt and triceps strength to be able to push back up.

This goes without saying.  Arching the back doesn't eliminate this but it also doesn't completely mean they aren't getting worked either.  If anything, it just means there are other muscles being recruited to help for part of it.  Plus I am getting plenty of anterior delt work from my tuck planches and back levers to compensate.

 

54 minutes ago, @mu said:

Or  you could choose to go into a deeper back bend at the bottom to leverage your weight into a more favourable chest pushing position.

This is actually the direction I was planning on taking this.  Given that couldn't care less about having a straight back, this option seems like the best route for me.  

 

35 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

Having said that, there's a certain amount of fetishizing the straight line HS at the moment.

Way overrated.  I think worrying about having a straight back is probably the single biggest factor that had been hampering my handstand progress for a long time.  Ever since I abandoned that, I have made tons of progress.

 

37 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

And if you do shapes like tuck and pike you'll have to make compensations which can put a lot of unnecessary stress on the wrists (assuming the arch is caused by lack of shoulder mobility)

This is very true for me, but I am just going to work with what I have instead of searching for some ideal.  if that means some skills are off the table, so be it.  it's not like I am doing this for anything besides showing off, and there is enough that I CAN do to worry about what may be getting limited.

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2 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

This is very true for me, but I am just going to work with what I have instead of searching for some ideal.  if that means some skills are off the table, so be it.  it's not like I am doing this for anything besides showing off, and there is enough that I CAN do to worry about what may be getting limited.

I think that's generally a good attitude. However, the limitations you have are very fixable, and even small amounts of progress might help. It's really weird to see such a defeatist attitude in you when it comes to flexibility, but not to anything else, including super hard skills like OAHS! :) 

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2 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

I think that's generally a good attitude. However, the limitations you have are very fixable, and even small amounts of progress might help. It's really weird to see such a defeatist attitude in you when it comes to flexibility, but not to anything else, including super hard skills like OAHS! :) 

I read this right as I was about to get on the treadmill for my hour long session, and boy was that an emotional ride :D 

 

To be completely honest, when I read your comment I was a little bit upset and a lot defensive, but as the run/walk progressed that evolved across a whole range of thoughts and emotions.  After the initial reaction, I thought about it some and got to the point that i was agreeing with you about being defeatist.  I think the reasons for this are twofold:

 

1. I have been doing stretching/flexibility for as long or longer than any other thing, and yet have seen pertty much zero progress.  even the short term progress I thought I was seeing turned out to be just cheating on form so I just don't really believe I am ever going to get anywhere with it

2.  Flexibility work isn't fun.  At all.  The other stuff I am doing is probably just as likely (or more likely) to never pan out into anything, but I am having fun doing it so I don't see any downside.  If I make, great. If I don't, well, at least I had fun along the way.  I don't get that with flexy training

 

Having said all that, I finally concluded that I am not REALLY defeatist, I just have a really bad attitude.  After all, I am still working on mobility/flexibility stuff even if I think in my heart of hearts that it is a complete waste of time.  Is it really defeatist if I am still doing it (and more than just going through the motions)?

 

53 minutes ago, deftona said:

Wait, you can't buy cheese at all?

 

 

Well, I can get those individually wrapped things in slice form, but as for real cheese, no.  There just isn't a big enough market for it here as 99% of the people find it about as appetizing as week old gym socks. 

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8 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

To be completely honest, when I read your comment I was a little bit upset and a lot defensive, but as the run/walk progressed that evolved across a whole range of thoughts and emotions.

Sorry not sorry. ;) I think it's a good thing to reflect on even if it's uncomfortable.

 

9 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

1. I have been doing stretching/flexibility for as long or longer than any other thing, and yet have seen pertty much zero progress.  even the short term progress I thought I was seeing turned out to be just cheating on form so I just don't really believe I am ever going to get anywhere with it

Again with the tough love, but why do you think you're a special snowflake that can't make any progress, in any body part? Barring a medical condition I see no reason for it.

 

9 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

2.  Flexibility work isn't fun.  At all.  The other stuff I am doing is probably just as likely (or more likely) to never pan out into anything, but I am having fun doing it so I don't see any downside.  If I make, great. If I don't, well, at least I had fun along the way.  I don't get that with flexy training

I get this, I do. And it's completely up to you if you want to ignore it and modify every skill or not.

 

12 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

Having said all that, I finally concluded that I am not REALLY defeatist, I just have a really bad attitude.

LOL

 

12 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

Is it really defeatist if I am still doing it (and more than just going through the motions)?

Honestly I don't know, it's an interesting question. Brains are weird and not to be too mumbo jumbo your attitude might actually affect progress, I don't know. There could be a difference between reaching your perceived max and thinking"this hurts and is uncomfortable and not fun at all and I can't go any further". The pain signals might even kick in in advance because you're thinking that. If you rather think "oooh what happens if I go a little bit further?", "maybe 1 mm further is possible" maybe that does open up room for progress. There's a reason why flexy teacher talk about finding "your happy place" when stretching. I'm just speculating here, and I have no idea what's going on in your head, but I'm going to go with a strong maybe as an answer.

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1 hour ago, Mad Hatter said:

The pain signals might even kick in in advance because you're thinking that.

 

This. Was my experience now vs when I first tried getting flexible. It didn't help I was watching tutorials by cheerleaders that had their resting-smiley-face on.

 

3 hours ago, deftona said:

Wait, you can't buy cheese at all?

 

Deftona asking the REALLY important questions here!!

 

I guess cheese doesn't mix that well with Asian flavors but still. Sad that they don't appreciate the taste there.

 

(FWIW, when I first came to the Netherlands I REFUSEDDDD to eat the local Gouda-like cheeses, the wannabe feta and salami. So we were also always transporting kilograms of dairy products and meat otherwise I would only half eat my lunch or not at all. Spoiled kid. Fortunately for my older self, I started liking Gouda and both the feta and yoghurt recipes used in store-boughts got better.)

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12 minutes ago, analoggirl said:

This. Was my experience now vs when I first tried getting flexible. It didn't help I was watching tutorials by cheerleaders that had their resting-smiley-face on.

Ooh that's a neat realisation! The smiling thing is also very interesting, even a forced smile can help both in flexibility and in endurance training.

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1 minute ago, Mad Hatter said:

The smiling thing is also very interesting, even a forced smile can help both in flexibility and in endurance training.

 

Oh definitely!! But it didn't give me an accurate representation of what I was supposed to feel

 

And that I needed to breathe into it and USE the smile as a tool. All I thought was "Damn she is so calm and collected about this while I am here getting religious about the pain :D

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1 minute ago, analoggirl said:

And that I needed to breathe into it and USE the smile as a tool. All I thought was "Damn she is so calm and collected about this while I am here getting religious about the pain :D

This is the problem with YT stretching videos, there's SO many of them that are complete and utter garbage. The worst ones are 7 year old titled "how to get the splits in only 1 DAY!"

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55 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

The worst ones are 7 year old titled "how to get the splits in only 1 DAY!"

I thought you were exaggerating, so I wrote that sentence on youtube and the first 11 results had that exact title. The 12th one was about achieving them in 5 minutes 🤦‍♀️

 

3 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

Well, I can get those individually wrapped things in slice form, but as for real cheese, no.  There just isn't a big enough market for it here as 99% of the people find it about as appetizing as week old gym socks.

 😮

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6 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

your attitude might actually affect progress,

 

This is actually pretty much a proven fact. There's a reason professional sports and e-sports teams employ psychologists. If you believe you can do something, it becomes slightly easier for you. If you firmly believe you're going to fail at that same thing, you probably will. That's just how the human brain works.

 

3 hours ago, zenLara said:

I thought you were exaggerating, so I wrote that sentence on youtube and the first 11 results had that exact title. The 12th one was about achieving them in 5 minutes 🤦‍♀️

 

 

This sounds very dangerous and irresponsible. Yikes.

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Dangit, I swore I hit the follow button and here I am all behind.     I swear, I am perpetually behind ALL TEH TRHEADS!   Ahem.

 

Here now though!  Or maybe I've been here the whole time, lurking from the shadows like a proper Assassin. 

source.gif

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