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WhiteGhost

WhiteGhost Enters the Beyond Times

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1 hour ago, Kishi said:

OTOH, maybe that's good enough. One does not flourish without subsistence, and maybe a person's flourishing is tied to subjective factors that the system couldn't account for or facilitate anyway.

 

I think you are probably not wrong about this. For one, flourishing without attempting to do so, hardly ever happens...

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7 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

I think you are probably not wrong about this. For one, flourishing without attempting to do so, hardly ever happens...

 

Right.

 

So, if flourishing is simply up to individuals, then I guess it makes the most sense for us to just boil our education down to what is the most useful for workers. So, reading, writing, math, and enough science to understand the scientific method. We funnel students into STEM programs until such time as the market determines that it has enough and needs something else.

 

After all, flourishing is an individual choice. And it's not our responsibility as a society to get students to get used to the work of determining what flourishing looks like for them. Why expose them to arts or philosophy or history in a way that forces them to think and engage with those things on their own subjective levels? There's no money in that, except to the degree to which it engenders flexibility of thought for solving problems that the employer wants them to solve.

 

Which, and I hope it's clear, nobody here is saying is an appropriate set of priorities for an educational program. And certainly there are limits to what a program can accomplish, and it's not as if children don't grow up educating themselves about the topics of their interests alongside what's expected of them. I get that. But I think that a good education can and should offer more than just the basics, even if it's just to plant the seeds that there's more to life and a student's interests than what's sold to them.

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1 hour ago, Kishi said:

Which, and I hope it's clear, nobody here is saying is an appropriate set of priorities for an educational program. And certainly there are limits to what a program can accomplish, and it's not as if children don't grow up educating themselves about the topics of their interests alongside what's expected of them. I get that. But I think that a good education can and should offer more than just the basics, even if it's just to plant the seeds that there's more to life and a student's interests than what's sold to them.

 

I love it when someone else shows up and makes my point much better than I did.

 

It has been very frustrating for me that I wasn't able to write words that accurately reflected what I wanted to say  (I'm not used to that). Thank you for spelling it out for me. :) 

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12 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

I love it when someone else shows up and makes my point much better than I did.

 

It has been very frustrating for me that I wasn't able to write words that accurately reflected what I wanted to say  (I'm not used to that). Thank you for spelling it out for me. :) 

 

What can I say? I'm here for you. :D

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On 9/17/2020 at 12:26 AM, Scaly Freak said:

One thing that irritates me beyond words is when they turn around and act surprised that memorized information doesn't automatically turns into understanding about how to apply information to a variety of every day situations in an effective way. Urgh.

Or more commonly when they insinuate that if the kids aren't taking the memorized information and applying it effectively it is the kid's problem, not the institution's.

 

On 9/17/2020 at 12:33 AM, PaulG said:


My company makes me retake their chosen test every. Time. I move. Departments. Hate hate hate.

 


He sounds like he’s about to snap himself in half!! No wait... that’s just my extreme envy of his progress talking

I have luckily never worked for a company that believed in the usefulness of personality tests

 

Yeah, serious envy over here!

 

On 9/17/2020 at 2:35 AM, sylph said:

FYI a cat can stay 'in heat' for up to two weeks (depending on the cat) and can start again as early as two weeks after that.

We definitely got lucky, then, because it only lasted about 3 days for us.  We'll see how long before it starts up again.

 

On 9/17/2020 at 4:03 AM, iatetheyeti said:

 

Ok. Wow. Definitely not bad for a guy that age!

 

If I can reach his level when I get there I will be very happy

 

On 9/17/2020 at 4:46 AM, Kishi said:

Hi!

 

Sounds like you picked a book already, but also gonna echo Sapiens. Super helpful book for trying to look at world history in terms of material causes rather than in terms of names and dates and a sort of 'canon' of understanding.

 

As far as school stuff goes... I don't really know. I think Robinson's got a point that we teach less with an eye toward making a more complete human and more with an eye toward creating a profitable skill set for a laborer. But short of upending the system so that we value human flourishing over human subsistence, I don't know what other choice we have. Reading, writing, and math are useful. Critical theory about these which may induce human development, not so much.

Cool, It is definitely on my short list for books to read

 

At one point in a previous company I was very involved in the HR side and had final say on all new hires.  It didn't take long to realize that the best all around performers were the ones who studied humanities and arts because honestly the corporate finance stuff is just not that difficult to learn.  The ones who had a finance undergrad and an MBA required less training to get started but after 6-9 months they really didn't have much of an advantage over those who started with no finance background at all.  Unfortunately, most of the people who want to work in that industry assume that you need finance/management degrees to get in the door, so we get very few applications from the other majors.

 

On 9/17/2020 at 4:48 AM, Emma said:

I wanted to get our female cat fixed. (Ex) husband said no. After one night of cat in heat he was “ get her fixed now!”  Had to wait though until she was out of heat. Good luck!

We plan to get Wraith fixed but Ghostess is adamant that we allow her to have kittens at least once.  She believes very strongly that neutering and spaying at a young age is a violation of the animal's reproductive rights.

 

On 9/17/2020 at 5:28 AM, Scaly Freak said:

The socialization aspect of schools is almost more important. For some children, the public school system provides their first exposure to thoughts and individuals outside of their own "kind of people". That's valuable, but also backfires if it's handled poorly.

This really isn't a guarantee, though.  Many communities tend to group around like minded members so the school for a given community reflects a lot of the common values of that community.   My schools growing up were so homogeneous that the first time I met an Asian person (6th grade) and the first time I met a black person (9th grade) were such big events for me that they stick out in my mind even today. 

 

On 9/17/2020 at 5:36 AM, KB Girl said:

I don’t think it’s even a question of flourishing vs subsistence (though that’s a whole other interesting conversation), because creative thinking and really any type of talent or skill can be capitalised on these days.. and as he mentioned, who knows what jobs will look like? What kind of skill set will even be profitable in 10 years? Much better to foster a love for learning and encourage unbridled passion for a subject that you find interesting and stop testing memorisation skills. 

I feel very confident that memorization skills will NOT be profitable in 10 years.

 

On 9/17/2020 at 5:36 AM, KB Girl said:

but that’s also rather awesome and hopeful right? Just imagine what you can do in a couple months :) I’m only 32- what can I do when I’m 63?? The possibilities are enticing. 

Yes, the crew I run with at the park are all alder than me (average age is about 65 or so) and it is fun to see the things they can do and learn from them.

 

On 9/17/2020 at 6:02 AM, KB Girl said:

simply having seem different kinds of people at school doesn’t guarantee anything

No, but it is (usually) a whole heck of a lot better than never getting to interact with them at all.  I strongly believe that association and affiliation (meeting and making friends with) are the two greatest tools for combating prejudice.

 

On 9/17/2020 at 8:03 AM, Kishi said:

But I think that a good education can and should offer more than just the basics, even if it's just to plant the seeds that there's more to life and a student's interests than what's sold to them.

I agree with this sentiment

 

On 9/17/2020 at 11:33 AM, Red1263 said:

I'm here to also be here for you ^_^ 

Can you please clarify the antecedent denoted by the above pronoun?  :P 

 

---------------------------------

 

I slept well on Wednesday night (hardly any meowling) but still woke up feeling super tired.  I didn't go to the park because I was running a D&D game which was more fun :)  I am glad the everyone seems to be enjoying the game so far, but I need to be careful to make sure some players don't get left out and/or overshadowed by some of the more outgoing/prominent players.  

 

After the game, I had some lunch and then was going to play some Skyrim but ended up just falling asleep on the couch until Ghostlet got home.  I spent most of the evening catching up on NF.  Even though i slept through most of the afternoon, I was still tired at night and went to bed even earlier than usual.  All of this sleepiness is definitely out of character for me, so I am a little thrown off by it.  Hopefully it is just my body getting used to having a schedule again.

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5 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

We plan to get Wraith fixed but Ghostess is adamant that we allow her to have kittens at least once.  She believes very strongly that neutering and spaying at a young age is a violation of the animal's reproductive rights.

 

For animals, that's not a right. It's a biological imperative that overrules everything else and controls their life until they surrender to it and procreate. It has nothing to do with whether they want to do it or not, just like human cis-females have a period whether we like it or not. 

 

Personally, I see spaying my female pets is a kindness to them, because it means their hormones won't control their lives.

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1 hour ago, WhiteGhost said:

No, but it is (usually) a whole heck of a lot better than never getting to interact with them at all.  I strongly believe that association and affiliation (meeting and making friends with) are the two greatest tools for combating prejudice.

Couldn't agree more! 

 

Even if I often found school boring I still believe the diversity I was exposed to have highly coloured my experiences in a very positive way. If I'd been brought up with my dad's point of view then OOF, I don't even want to think about what kind of person I'd be. Similarly, school provides exposure to many different subjects and no single parent can provide that. Sure you can fork out to buy equipment and hire a lot of teachers to teach art and music, and literature and history, and maths, and physics, and PE. But that's extremely unrealistic for the vast vast majority. Even if it's not taught in an ideal way, it's still exposure which I think is positive. For example even if I hated PE because it was all about team sports, for many kids team sports is extremely valuable and positive. And I also disagree that school kills creativity by default. It really depends on the kid. For example even if I wasn't challenged by the lessons, I still spent a large amount of time designing my reports, making them look pretty and unique, co-writing an absolute trash novella together with a physical model to supplement a history essay. Of course these examples are n=1, but I wanted to bring them up to show that a school experience has many layers even if the system fails in one way. Also where would you get all the draaaama from? :D 

 

Homeschooling can be a great alternative for a few select people, but let's be real, for most people that would mean very poor schooling, or even NO schooling. And we all know what that does to the world.

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14 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

At one point in a previous company I was very involved in the HR side and had final say on all new hires.  It didn't take long to realize that the best all around performers were the ones who studied humanities and arts because honestly the corporate finance stuff is just not that difficult to learn.  The ones who had a finance undergrad and an MBA required less training to get started but after 6-9 months they really didn't have much of an advantage over those who started with no finance background at all.  Unfortunately, most of the people who want to work in that industry assume that you need finance/management degrees to get in the door, so we get very few applications from the other majors.

 

I can definitely see how that would be. I remember reading when I was in school how philosophy bachelors, for instance, would have to sell themselves less on their degree and more on their ability to think critically about things.

 

Of course, as someone who dipped a toe in the job market for a while, the flip side is that hiring companies tell us that they want very specific degrees and skillsets, even if I can look at the description and know that it's something I could do.

 

It'S aLl CoNnEcTeD, mAn~

 

14 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

All of this sleepiness is definitely out of character for me, so I am a little thrown off by it.  Hopefully it is just my body getting used to having a schedule again.

 

Yeah, man, hope it's not the Thing That's Going 'Round.

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37 minutes ago, Kishi said:

I can definitely see how that would be. I remember reading when I was in school how philosophy bachelors, for instance, would have to sell themselves less on their degree and more on their ability to think critically about things.

 

Of course, as someone who dipped a toe in the job market for a while, the flip side is that hiring companies tell us that they want very specific degrees and skillsets, even if I can look at the description and know that it's something I could do.

Something something corporate drones something something unkind thoughts about HR.

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21 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

For animals, that's not a right. It's a biological imperative that overrules everything else and controls their life until they surrender to it and procreate. It has nothing to do with whether they want to do it or not, just like human cis-females have a period whether we like it or not. 

 

Personally, I see spaying my female pets is a kindness to them, because it means their hormones won't control their lives.

Based on what I know of your background and culture, your response makes complete sense to me.  Ghostess's perspective is highly colored by a lot of other cultural and political things that you may not understand.  Based on what I know of her background and culture, her thoughts also make perfect sense to me.  The idea that animals have reproductive rights is a new concept that started in the early 80s and was, in my opinion, drive in large part as way to obliquely criticize the government's one child policy.  I believe her view is a proxy for other views which cannot be expressly held.

 

18 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

I also disagree that school kills creativity by default.

I think the system as set up is unfavorable to creativity.  Some kids can still develop creativity despite the system, but I don't see most school systems as going out of their way to foster it in any meaningful way.

 

11 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

What will be more useful is knowing how to use a search engine to get reliable results.

And being able to differentiate between various reliable results and evaluate the pros and cons of each.  Differing views and perspectives on a given topic may both be reliable and valid,  and yet be on completely different in analysis and conclusion.

 

6 hours ago, Kishi said:

I can definitely see how that would be. I remember reading when I was in school how philosophy bachelors, for instance, would have to sell themselves less on their degree and more on their ability to think critically about things.

 

Of course, as someone who dipped a toe in the job market for a while, the flip side is that hiring companies tell us that they want very specific degrees and skillsets, even if I can look at the description and know that it's something I could do.

 

It'S aLl CoNnEcTeD, mAn~

I think there is usually a huge disconnect between what senior management tell HR they want and what they actually want.  This is usually not a conscious failing, but a failure of communication at multiple levels that occurs within most organizations. 

 

6 hours ago, Kishi said:

Yeah, man, hope it's not the Thing That's Going 'Round.

Very unlikely to be The Thing, as that isn't really going on over here anymore.

 

5 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

Something something corporate drones something something unkind thoughts about HR.

HR gets a lot of hate, much of it justified, but usually the real blame lies with the management to whom HR reports.

 

------------------------------

 

I was feeling very sleepy yesterday and had some wicked DOMS all over my upper body yesterday, but I pushed through anyway because it would be my last opportunity for a park workout this week.  I am glad that I went and had a good time playing around with all the things there, but focusing specifically on back levers.  I am not getting very long holds, but I am happy that I am able to at least get into a full back lever and hold for longer than what gravity normally allows when swinging up into position :) Not by much, but I'll take it

 

After my workout I came home and did some mobility work , got in some updates on my D&D campaigns, and then had some lunch.  In the afternoon, I mostly just played Skyrim because I was avoiding all of the things I said I was going to do for my challenge.

 

When Ghostlet got home, we had some quick dinner and then I dropped him off at his evening class.  On the way back from that we say a big truck sticking out a giant whole where they are doing construction on the new subway line.  It looked like it was delivering materials and drove on top of somewhere that wasn't sufficiently reinforced and caved in the subway.  I wonder how long that is going to push back the opening of this line (which is already 8 years behind schedule).

 

After we got home, I had to run to the airport to pick up my FIL, who was coming home from a 4-day junket to Jingdezhen with his former colleagues.  Jingdezhen is the birthplace of china (the dinnerware) which is the namesake of the country.

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1 hour ago, Sloth the Enduring said:

Wait. Are you jesting or was China actually named after dishware.

Totally serious.  China isn't what the country calls itself in Chinese, of course, but the English name of the country is totally derived from dinnerware

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2 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

I think there is usually a huge disconnect between what senior management tell HR they want and what they actually want.  This is usually not a conscious failing, but a failure of communication at multiple levels that occurs within most organizations.

 

Yeah, that makes sense. I bet that it might even be worse than that depending on the company. If HR has a quota or a deadline to hit, they're going to want to make the job as easy as possible while still meeting what they understand the requirements to be. "Work smarter, not harder," right? So they list the requirements as they understand them on a posting, not just because they want to make sure that the right candidates come along, but also because they want to make sure that the wrong candidates don't.

 

This is kind of why I tend toward a cynical view of education. The Art or History major might be a great fit for a finance job, but HR has to fill a position ASAP and they don't want to do it badly (see your earlier comments about bad management), so they go looking for the people that look the most likely to get the job done right. That's why the accreditation matters. It's not just a signal of a certain set of competencies and skills; it's also a key that allows access to certain kinds of employment opportunities. People with improper accreditation might be able to 'pick the lock' so to speak, but it's way easier to just open a door when you have a key, no?

 

3 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

I was feeling very sleepy yesterday and had some wicked DOMS all over my upper body yesterday, but I pushed through anyway because it would be my last opportunity for a park workout this week.  I am glad that I went and had a good time playing around with all the things there, but focusing specifically on back levers.  I am not getting very long holds, but I am happy that I am able to at least get into a full back lever and hold for longer than what gravity normally allows when swinging up into position :) Not by much, but I'll take it

 

Total lever envy here! "Yeah, nah, I was super sore and tired so I went to the park and just *BAMFED* into a back lever like you do."

 

Well, maybe like you do. Not me. Not yet. :D

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8 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

Totally serious.  China isn't what the country calls itself in Chinese, of course, but the English name of the country is totally derived from dinnerware

Nothing at all to do with the Qin dynasty? And what does China call itself?

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On 9/19/2020 at 2:42 PM, Kishi said:

not just because they want to make sure that the right candidates come along, but also because they want to make sure that the wrong candidates don't.

I think you are probably not wrong about a preference for making sure the wrong candidate doesn't get hired rather then ensuring the right one does.

 

On 9/19/2020 at 2:42 PM, Kishi said:

Total lever envy here! "Yeah, nah, I was super sore and tired so I went to the park and just *BAMFED* into a back lever like you do."

haha, fair.  I guess I may not have been as tired and sore as I let on ;) 

 

17 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

Nothing at all to do with the Qin dynasty? And what does China call itself?

No, not related.  It is a popular claim because of the seeming similarity, but the name China (or similar derivations) existed prior to the Qin dynasty, and during the dynasty periods the name would change so at the end of the Qin dynasty, the country no longer would have even used it as a reference to the country.

 

The country calls itself 中国 (Zhongguo) which is commonly translated "the Middle Kingdom" but there is disagreement as to the actual meaning and origin of this term (which also predates the Qin Dynasty).  It should be noted, though, that the name Zhongguo as a name for the country is probably no more than 100 years old, as during the dynastic periods, the name of the country was the same as the name of the imperial family.

 

--------------------

 

Today started out with a D&D session with Ghostlet and his cousins, which was a lot of fun. I love the excitement and wonder that these kids bring to the game.  I spent most of the rest of the day on the Xbox while Ghostlet spent the afternoon and evening doing homework. Ghostess was presenting at a conference in Shenzhen and did not get home until almost 1am.

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14 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

Based on what I know of your background and culture, your response makes complete sense to me.  Ghostess's perspective is highly colored by a lot of other cultural and political things that you may not understand.  Based on what I know of her background and culture, her thoughts also make perfect sense to me.  The idea that animals have reproductive rights is a new concept that started in the early 80s and was, in my opinion, drive in large part as way to obliquely criticize the government's one child policy.  I believe her view is a proxy for other views which cannot be expressly held.

 

This makes perfect sense. But that doesn't really matter, because I should be able to respect someone else's different perspective even if I don't understand the background and culture that shaped it. :)

 

The reason I object to calling it a right in animals, is because the term "reproductive rights" imply that the animal has agency and can make decisions about whether they reproduce or not, and that's not the case for them. That said, we can call it whatever we want, you're still stuck living with a female cat in heat, and everything that comes with that... Have fun! :P 

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20 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

you're still stuck living with a female cat in heat, and everything that comes with that... Have fun! :P 

Ha, that's the truth.  We have been very lucky that she has been relatively easy going as these things go.  Definitely not as bad as some horror stories I have heard :) 

 

----------------------------------

 

Today started out with zoom church.  Well actually it started before that with a conference call among the various leaders to discuss about how we are going to try and coordinate things once we get back to in person meetings (which will happen next week), because we have a large number of members who are not comfortable meeting in person so we need to figure out a way to facilitate streaming services.  Church itself was nice, the guy that used to be in charge of our area (all of the congregations in the Bohai area) moved back to Australia so we got to hear from the new guy that will replace him.  The new guy is a good friend of mine so I am looking forward to working with him :) 

 

After that was over it was mostly helping Ghostess clean up the house between shuttling Ghostlet to his various classes.  

 

This week was the first time to be back to the park this year and it was nice to be back with my old crew again.  Their progress the last few months has inspired me to get back on my game and try to make some real progress again.  The rest of the challenge was kind of a wash, because I just didn't want to do any of it.  I suspect this week will be a lot of the same 

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This morning I went to the park after dropping Ghostlet off at school and did all the gymnastics things.  I was very happy that I have not only kept all of the progress I had at the end of last year, I even was able to add some new things.  I did front & back giants, kips, back uprises, front & back mill circles, front balances, back hip circles and for the first time was able to get some cheat front hip circles (cheating because I was tucking around the bar instead of staying straight).  It's a good thing this isn't competition gymnastics I would be losing all kinds of form points :D   A guy brought some rings so I also did some ring dips and iron cross progressions.  By the end of the workout my shoulders and upper arms were so dead I could barely lift my arms up enough to put my backpack on.

 

I spent the whole afternoon playing Skrim and then cooked some cabbage & pork for dinner when Ghostlet got home.  The evening was spent in intense negotiations with Ghostess's parents.  Ghostess and her crew* are planning to go to Tibet for the long October holiday and when her mom found out about her plans she adamantly refused to allow her to go, because her mom is afraid she could very sick from the altitude (She had a friend who got sick there and has been suffering after effects for years.  Ghostess was thrown for a loop because 1) she has been planning this with her crew for months and they have already paid for everything and bought a of the clothes and other equipment they plan to use for the trip and 2) she is a grown woman in her 40s and a very successful businesswoman, who ever heard of a grown woman not being able to travel because her mom was afraid she might get sick?!?!?.  It was getting to be a real problem with her mom calling every day trying to pressure her into cancelling and her mom just wouldn't listen to reason so her dad came over and we had a very long discussion with him and he agreed to run interference with her mom.  I expect he is going to have a rough few days as he bears the brunt of her mom's weird obsession abut this.  I cannot fathom the whole dynamic, but apparently this is very common in a lot of Asian families.

 

*originally I was going to join them but it turns out I am not allowed to travel there with my visa.  Only people here on a select type of tourist visa can go, and even then only with a few select tour operators.  

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29 minutes ago, WhiteGhost said:

This morning I went to the park after dropping Ghostlet off at school and did all the gymnastics things.  I was very happy that I have not only kept all of the progress I had at the end of last year, I even was able to add some new things.  I did front & back giants, kips, back uprises, front & back mill circles, front balances, back hip circles and for the first time was able to get some cheat front hip circles (cheating because I was tucking around the bar instead of staying straight).  It's a good thing this isn't competition gymnastics I would be losing all kinds of form points :D   A guy brought some rings so I also did some ring dips and iron cross progressions.  By the end of the workout my shoulders and upper arms were so dead I could barely lift my arms up enough to put my backpack on.

 

You are going to be SO SORE. 😂

 

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1 hour ago, WhiteGhost said:

Ghostess and her crew* are planning to go to Tibet for the long October holiday and when her mom found out about her plans she adamantly refused to allow her to go, because her mom is afraid she could very sick from the altitude (She had a friend who got sick there and has been suffering after effects for years.  Ghostess was thrown for a loop because 1) she has been planning this with her crew for months and they have already paid for everything and bought a of the clothes and other equipment they plan to use for the trip and 2) she is a grown woman in her 40s and a very successful businesswoman, who ever heard of a grown woman not being able to travel because her mom was afraid she might get sick?!?!?.  It was getting to be a real problem with her mom calling every day trying to pressure her into cancelling and her mom just wouldn't listen to reason so her dad came over and we had a very long discussion with him and he agreed to run interference with her mom.  I expect he is going to have a rough few days as he bears the brunt of her mom's weird obsession abut this.  I cannot fathom the whole dynamic, but apparently this is very common in a lot of Asian families.

 

I mean, I've heard of altitude sickness, but not it continuing after the fact. I'm somewhat curious how this dynamic would work in a very multi-generational family... like if the mom says x but HER mom says y...... is just everyone unhappy? 

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2 hours ago, WhiteGhost said:

who ever heard of a grown woman not being able to travel because her mom was afraid she might get sick?!?!?.

 

You mean, besides every mother who is aware of the pandemic that's going on right now? 😛 

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