• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Aθena

Athena gets out of the Tutorial Zone - pt. 1

Recommended Posts

On 9/16/2020 at 10:40 AM, Aθena said:

Though it's been diffucult to differentiate between tough love, being real w. myself and beating myself up sometimes. 

This is SO hard! Everyone here keeps telling me it's usually the latter. :P The advice I've often seen floating about is to ask yourself whether you'd tell the same thing to a friend that you tell yourself. But yeah, it's hard.

 

 

On 9/14/2020 at 9:06 PM, Aθena said:

 

Gotcha!

 

 

Ohhh I need to share this with you, yes. It's in Dutch but I can summarise some stuff for you / see if the founder of the coaching bureau has done stuff in English. Will get back to you on this! 

 

It is not super ground breaking but it has a nice set of questions that have made me think, and that is sometimes all you need right? 

 

The other journalling project I have is the 30 (or 31?) days to self-reliance by the Art of Manliness. It has a journal prompt a day and is mostly based on this essay by the American R.W. Emerson. I have done 16 of the days so far and it has been a fun exercise. Some spark more in me than others. 

 

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/31-days-greater-self-reliance/

 

You sound like you are pretty self reliant already, though I think some of them might sound fun nonetheless :) If you are looking for some directed journalling ideas.

 

And I guess everyone can use a bit of reflection on outer influences in one form or another lol

Thanks so much! I do think that I'm self-reliant, but the questions are still interesting and more on the topic of self-knowledge I guess? Can be an interesting experiment, who knows maybe something will pop up or at least break my thought loops. :) 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sooo I have been scanning stuff for about 3,5 hours. AND THOSE WERE JUST THE NOTES FOR ONE COURSE. Had lunch in between so total 4 hours in the uni library. And I forgot my earphones so no music. Not the healthiest choice!

 

I guess I will be coming back here 4 more times about. Alright. It will be alright.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

This is SO hard! Everyone here keeps telling me it's usually the latter. :P The advice I've often seen floating about is to ask yourself whether you'd tell the same thing to a friend that you tell yourself. But yeah, it's hard.

 

Haha, I suspect it depends also on whether on the mid-to-long term, a type of thinking gets you a balance of goal-achieving and self-acknowledgement. 

 

Like (the feeling of) with working on your body without hating it? 

 

Uhh... Working your mind (skill set etc.) because you appreciate what the human brain can do, not because you hate it will not act EXACTLY AS YOU WANT IT? :D Idk.

 

***

 

Ahhh yesterday was brutally tiring. I think my body is wondering whether to catch a cold or not. I was so tired at 18:00. Drank vitamin C, paracetamol and smth to soothe my throat. Went to bed at 1900. Slept approx. 20.00. Woke up at 600. 

 

Not optimal but I couldnt get back to sleep after my trippy dreams or so. I started stretching. Little bit of wrist mobi. Aired out room and folded bedstuff. Did my posture stuff. Cleared outall theshiz I still have to sort, soI can try if my bed is more feng shui at the other side of the room.

 

Sis and mom are still asleep. What to do... Try a nap? Why not! 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My (temporary?) new room lay-out is much more open and allows much less hoarding. In my room, that is. :D

 

Apparently one of my "incentives" is 'saving/collecting' so that makes sense, that I still have collections of stuff. Even though it would be aesthetically more pleasing to have less stuff.

 

As was 'food', btw. That was funny. And also makes sense. In my mind map of drives/incentives, I listed those as drives that can act as supportive to my more immaterial drives. 

 

Anyway. I think I can fit 2 ikea boxes on top my clothing wardrobe now that I have freed that top of empty shoe boxes I have collected (lol) to use for organisation.

 

Especially if I lay the "waiting" gifts for a couple of friends where I also put other gifts in my new organisation

 

And I also have space for 2 ikea boxes in the 2x2 ikea shelves next to my desk.

 

(ohhh I think I can use some to store some notebooks in in a more space efficient way. Maybe. 🤔)

 

Sooo. I have some paper sorting to do. 

 

And decision time... Maybe tomorrow? About 4-5 non-paper ikea boxes.

 

Only 2 of them are more than half full, I just needed seperate boxes for the purpose of remembering which stuff I had in different drawes.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm. Almost done with this phase:

 

On 9/16/2020 at 9:41 PM, Aθena said:

Mission Decrease Dragon (Lair) Symptoms has gone into phase 2.0: I am changing the furniture I have and am forced to sort out all the stuff in the drawer cabinet & my desk area. So I can fit it into my new lay-out.

 

And caught up with notifications until and including (?) :D Wednesday of this week.  Also I still have to review all those files to see if I need to redo the transfer to Onedrive.

 

*

 

I think I'll do the minimum (to free the guest room). I'll finish up the binder that I started making with all the random career path related leaflets etc. and put the stuff that has not gotten a place yet in the corner in my room, sort of our of sight.

 

Take the binders I have gotten ready for the attic, to the attic.

 

E-mail my newly assigned career coach with the stuff needed to finalise my participation in the program. (And decide which month I want to do it)

 

Go to a trial tae chi lesson (outdoors) :)

 

Practice numeric fast typing that I am not used to anymore because Macbook has no numpad... 

And then take the damned test. (For this side job I applied for.) See if I have gotten better (100 numbers per minute) after only shortly practicing one evening and some more active practicing tomorrow. Instead of "practicing a little every day" like I wanted to.

 

And then continue with my computer stuff because... Well... I just want to find out what is making my laptop lag.

 

And then maybe, hopefully, look for a thesis topic. That means, read 1 to 2 journal articles and jot down ideas.

 

EDIT: early morning: posture & mobility exercises & write something for Day 2 or 3 of car. coach j. prompt. One of those was to read the book the founder of the coaching firm wrote, which I did Friday. Then plan my day.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

🤩 I need tae chi in my life. 

 

I went to a trial lesson today, and I was the only morning candidate which I expected. Most people go for the evenings, probably because of jobs or other responsibilities. :)

 

I think an evening class is better for me too because I might have to work on Mondays, who knows. So no problem.

 

I am also going to go on a lesson to try on Friday elsewhere. There is a third option in the city center but it seems more commercial. Why? Because they offer tons of other stuff, too. :) Also... Let's be honest, it is easier to be consistent if something is closeby, walking distance even.

 

I still have to message the acupunturist to see if he still gives tae chi, too.

 

Then I will make a decision. :) It's no peanuts, what they ask for the lessons, since it is not widespread here I guess. But worth the investment.

 

I am not aiming to live a long life, like tae chi's goal, but a fullfilled life. Yes.

 

Anyway. On to the rest of my day!

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Such productivity!

 

 I did not do everything on that list :) But thanks anyway! :D

 

 

On 9/20/2020 at 10:18 PM, Aθena said:

I think I'll do the minimum (to free the guest room). I'll finish up the binder that I started making with all the random career path related leaflets etc. and put the stuff that has not gotten a place yet in the corner in my room, sort of our of sight.

 

Take the binders I have gotten ready for the attic, to the attic.

 

Check!

 

Quote

E-mail my newly assigned career coach with the stuff needed to finalise my participation in the program. (And decide which month I want to do it)

 

No!

 

Quote

Go to a trial tae chi lesson (outdoors) :)

 

Check!

 

Quote

Practice numeric fast typing that I am not used to anymore because Macbook has no numpad... 

And then take the damned test. (For this side job I applied for.) See if I have gotten better (100 numbers per minute) after only shortly practicing one evening and some more active practicing tomorrow. Instead of "practicing a little every day" like I wanted to.

 

Check!

 

Quote

And then continue with my computer stuff because... Well... I just want to find out what is making my laptop lag.

 

And then maybe, hopefully, look for a thesis topic. That means, read 1 to 2 journal articles and jot down ideas.

 

No and no :') 

 

Quote

EDIT: early morning: posture & mobility exercises & write something for Day 2 or 3 of car. coach j. prompt. One of those was to read the book the founder of the coaching firm wrote, which I did Friday. Then plan my day.

 

I aaaalmost did this but then had to leave in the morning before I was done with my journalling. Was on a roll, too. Better get on that roll sooner tomorrow morning :D

 

I also did some chores, and experimented with an "egg poacher" device. And failed and made a mess, but it was fun haha...

 

The only way to up my very low DEX enough to be "Good at cooking" is to practice. And it's weird, I really like cooking, but well. I have a lot of hobbies I enjoy a LOT when I'm doing them but have to actually get to that step haha

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, cd667 said:

My days with Tai Chi in them are much better than the ones without.

 

Question. Is it a thing among tae chi teachers that he says he is addicted to tae chi, "but only if it's the original ... style"? 

 

Everything he said sounds good, except I am afraid I will wander into a course where there is some sort of dogma, like how some dojos almost worship a teacher/founder?

 

I know I sound ignorant atm, but I hope you get what I mean. :) 

 

Also tagging @sarakingdom  because this is a topic I have seen the Monks discuss? Probably not the way I phrased it, or it's not what happens but some other form of worship or so, I don't remember how you guys explained it!

 

EDIT: just for clarity: I did not mean that I am afraid as in actual fear, that I will end up in a cult or so, but simply that I don't think I will enjoy spending time in that type of setting.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay guys, I officially think I am prolonging the job application procedure for this one side job because I want to ease my mind for not looking more actively for a "proper" job. (I have applied for a data entry thing & am retaking a typing test specifically for the entry of numbers for the third time.

 

The first time I took it, my regular typing test was real good so I passed it, but the numeric bit was quite bad. They make you type over about 16 forms of invoice-type forms, where you have to copy things like client numbers and prices. For the second time, yesterday, I increased my typing speed but apparently think too much in the beginning, because the first 12 forms were slow but then for the last 4 out of 16 I was within the typing speed norm. :D Anyway, I also could have told them I would not retake the test and would continue looking for other jobs, but I am keeping myself busy with my journalling, and I was spending LOTS of time on the redecoration of my room + reducing my stuff, and my quest to find a tae chi place, spending time with my family, self-care, in all sorts of forms and enjoying... Not having courses to run after, and other stuff like that. 

 

Let's see where the counter stands. I turned in my thesis on 12 July. It's 22 September and I am slooowly letting back responsibilities into my life. That's a bit more than 2 months, isn't it? Well. Final excuse: I guess I missed having vacations like I did in high school :D I am getting my derriere in gear, see? There's a lot of ways I could have stretched my stuff-reduction goal(s) yet here I am, 

 

  • Going to finalise the career coaching thing,
  • practice the typing test and then update my CV. Upload it to the job finding site,
  • Then ask someone to help me evaluate it, so I can apply those changes and have it ready for job applications
  • that should still leave me time to look for a thesis topic finally (it's 11:15 AM atm, I want to be done at around 15:00)

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Aθena said:

 

Question. Is it a thing among tae chi teachers that he says he is addicted to tae chi, "but only if it's the original ... style"? 

 

Everything he said sounds good, except I am afraid I will wander into a course where there is some sort of dogma, like how some dojos almost worship a teacher/founder?

 

I know I sound ignorant atm, but I hope you get what I mean. :) 

 

Also tagging @sarakingdom  because this is a topic I have seen the Monks discuss? Probably not the way I phrased it, or it's not what happens but some other form of worship or so, I don't remember how you guys explained it!

You don't sound ignorant at all. Quite the opposite.

 

I should preface all of this by saying I have only ever had one teacher, and I deliberately haven't looked into too many alternatives; I don't wish to become an expert, merely a competent practitioner. But these are some thoughts.

 

There are lots of schools of Tai Chi, and anyone can start one. The aims and objectives of these schools are wildly different, and the claims made about what it can do for you are different depending on who you ask. There is a traditional Yang style Tai Chi, which you could consider an international standard. This is probably what your prospective teacher was talking about. There's no dogma, although bear in mind many of the materials are direct translations from Chinese and don't sound as good in English.

 

Personally, I see the benefits as something that:

  1. Makes me a little more flexible.
  2. Will allow me to become a better old person.
  3. Gives me a few minutes every day where I just focus on my breathing and movement, in normal circumstances with other people.
  4. Will help me live the best version of my life.

I really recommend it. Better than a mindfulness app.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Aθena said:

Okay guys, I officially think I am prolonging the job application procedure for this one side job because I want to ease my mind for not looking more actively for a "proper" job. (I have applied for a data entry thing & am retaking a typing test specifically for the entry of numbers for the third time.

 

This is one of Procrastination's favorite attacks. Do not succumb!

 

6 hours ago, Aθena said:
  • practice the typing test and then update my CV. Upload it to the job finding site,
  • Then ask someone to help me evaluate it, so I can apply those changes and have it ready for job applications

 

Reminder: A large number of Someones follow your thread, and would be happy to help you by evaluating. Obviously it is entirely up to you to decide if you are comfortable sharing your full name and your contact information (and other personal information), and you should not feel any pressure to do so. But the community here is a resource for you to use for things like this. :) 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Aθena said:

Question. Is it a thing among tae chi teachers that he says he is addicted to tae chi, "but only if it's the original ... style"? 

 

Everything he said sounds good, except I am afraid I will wander into a course where there is some sort of dogma, like how some dojos almost worship a teacher/founder?

 

This is a common thing with martial arts teachers. There are a lot of styles of each martial art. That usually means that senior students of some teacher disagreed on various points of how the art should be taught, so they broke off and founded a different style. Sometimes the only difference is that the instructors could not get along with each other.

 

There are several things you can look for as a new student.

  • Is the dojo part of an organization with other dojos in different locations?
  • Does the teacher talk respectfully about his/her teacher?
  • Can you find any history of the style and instructors on Wikipedia?
  • How does the teacher talk about their students?
  • How do the people in the class treat each other?

Not having a history is a bad sign. Especially when the teacher is claiming to teach an "original" style. A teacher who speaks well of their teacher and chief instructors at other dojos is a good sign. That means that they see value in what other people are doing and don't claim to be the sole authority. How the students and teacher deal with each other is a good predictor of how they will treat you.

 

Even if all the signs are good, that does not guarantee that the style is a good match for you. A big part of the reason there are so many martial arts is that different approaches appeal to different people. If you feel uncertain, go watch classes from other instructors.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What Mistr and cd667 said, plus this: tai chi got real popular in the west the way yoga did, so it means there's a complex thing going on. There's tai chi the literal martial art for fighting. There's tai chi taught widely as traditional beneficial exercise, used by Chinese people all over. Those two are connected, and there are various commonly recognised styles based on who taught who. And there's tai chi the western new age spiritual stretching, which is just sort of tai-chi-inspired instant experts.

 

So when someone says "original", it might mean he's snobby about the teacher whose style is taught. That's not uncommon in the martial arts world, even if I don't generally love that sort of snobbery. It might mean martial tai chi versus flexibility/conditioning tai chi; it was originally a martial art, but it's very hard these days to find it actually taught as a martial art rather than gentle fitness, and some people have a strong preference for one or the other. They serve different populations, and that's fair. It might mean Chinese tai chi, whether martial or flexibility/conditioning, versus Western chakra-Lululemon-check-out-my-aura hippie tai chi lite.

 

 

Worshipping a teacher isn't very common, and in the dojos that do it, I think it's often a misunderstanding of a cultural practice. First, they misunderstand the meaning of bowing in Asian cultures, because it means something different in the west. In the west, it's associated with subservience or religion; in Asia, it's generally a variation on "hello" or "thanks" or "yes".

 

Second, they misunderstand a heavily Shinto-influenced culture and how broadly the concept of thanking abstract or imaginary things can go, and how not religious it is in that context to bow to a dead teacher or a piece of calligraphy. (See also: people who misunderstand why Marie Kondo thanks her sweaters before she discards them, and think she's a flake, instead of just culturally Shinto. The basic misunderstanding centers around the belief that it's about believing the object is extraordinary or supernatural, when it's largely about training yourself to be mindful in your appreciation of things and not to take them for granted.) In many traditional dojos, it's common not just to acknowledge the founder of the art, but give the dojo spirits, or the dojo itself, a little acknowledgement. Not one bit of it is about believing in them; it's about showing you're not going to take your training space or time for granted and are taking a minute to be mindful. (Actually, a ton of Eastern religion has absolutely nothing to do with belief at all, which is a huge misunderstanding with Westerners. All western religion is orthodox, based on what you believe, while a lot of Eastern religion is orthopraxic, based on what you do and totally indifferent to what you believe. The more religious the area the dojo is in, the more I expect them to really misunderstand this, because their world view is so deeply based in the concept of spiritual belief, and so unfamiliar with mindfulness.)

 

And third, I think they misunderstand the traditional Asian student-teacher relationship, and simply how hierarchy and respect is reflected in Asian cultures. We don't have the same formality in our social hierarchy. We rarely expect young people to use formal titles when speaking to people older than them in the street. We don't have special respectful titles for senior students or older siblings, let alone teachers. And that's just regular schools, not dojos. Dojos might have developed a more international flavor from international expansion, or might be a little old-fashioned by Asian teaching standards; most of them grew out of the Asian teaching culture before 1960. (Or even earlier. It's common in traditional Asian arts and crafts, and I use the meaning that includes music and flower arranging and so on, to preserve the traditional teaching culture. To value the actual traditional process.) So you may get an odd mix of ultra traditional and anything goes, from an Asian perspective.

 

All dojos teach in some variation of traditional Asian teaching practices. They've just inherited this culture of teaching by repetition, plus various customs they've kept along the way. It took me quite a while to understand it as being grounded in an alternate pedagogy. I had to learn a fair amount about mindfulness and how deeply things like Buddhism were woven into everyday culture, like how to teach in schools. Sometimes it's a mix of Asian and western culture in the dojo. In some ways, that actually feels more authentic to me, because I think of adaptation as part of that teaching style. But a lot of students don't really know why the cultural bits are what they are.  (When we leave the training mat to get water or go to the bathroom, we bow to the mat in general when we step off and onto the mat. Makes no western sense. It's not to a person, just to the literal mat, even when it's empty and you're about to sweep up. It's just rude not to. Most people, maybe even a lot of Japanese people who completely take it for granted that you do it, never really think about why. It's just deeply culturally embedded mindfulness of the spaces you're entering and leaving, not worshipping a plastic tarp or believing in its personhood, even though it's hard to explain without talking about honoring the dojo space. The same way it's rude here not to say "bless you" when someone sneezes,  even though we don't literally believe evil spirits could get them in that moment, and probably never did. You're just a mannerless oaf if you don't do it.) ;)

 

When I see a school that goes down the worship-the-teacher route, I think I'm seeing a school with an unhealthy love of authority. They've either misunderstood the culture of respect and enjoy it as a culture of power, or they have roughly understood and think it will make them More Traditionally Authentic Than Everyone Else if they lean in hard. ("More authentic than you" is often the game I see being played by most of the people who only think a certain teacher is the proper authority for a style. Same motive, very slightly less douchey, though not much. Preference, fine. Only mine is the right one, you're kind of a jerk. But it's a common phase for, ahem, very serious young male students.) Usually they're a bunch of young dudebros with an MMA fixation and the desire to prove they've got the biggest dicks in the room. It's like playing "spot the bodybuilder douchebag". I've honestly never been to a school like that myself. It seems far less likely to me than the McDojo problem, or "just pay your dues regularly and your kid will be a black belt in two years, regardless of what they've learned".

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi! I'm a new druid slowly making the rounds... You're thread is super interesting!  Following along. :)

 

On 9/14/2020 at 1:06 PM, Aθena said:

The other journalling project I have is the 30 (or 31?) days to self-reliance by the Art of Manliness. It has a journal prompt a day and is mostly based on this essay by the American R.W. Emerson. I have done 16 of the days so far and it has been a fun exercise. Some spark more in me than others. 

 

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/31-days-greater-self-reliance/

 

I"m a fan of Art of Manliness too. :) Its one of my go-to podcasts to listen to while running (depending on the guest).  I'll have to look into this journaling exercise. Bullet Journaling is my big goal right now and I like the idea of greater self-reliance.

 

On 9/21/2020 at 5:16 AM, cd667 said:

Yes, do it!

 

My days with Tai Chi in them are much better than the ones without.

 

I love Tai Chi! I've been practicing for about 3 years now and I agree with cd667: Days with Tai Chi are better. Other commenters have addressed your question about styles thoroughly, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents as well.

 

The 3 types of Tai Chi my master talks about are:

1. Combat Tai Chi -  Forms are functional and efficient, designed for fighting or conditioning (Full disclosure, this is the type my master teaches) I've learned (and forgotten unfortunately :( ) a few Yang style forms. We also do Ba Gua/Pa Qua and some weapons forms.

2. Health Tai Chi - uses a lot of the same forms but are less... intense? I guess is the word for it? It's what most people think of when you say Tai Chi.

3. Wushu Tai Chi - again uses a lot of the same forms but they are exaggerated and stylized. They look like Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon or House of Flying Daggers. The competition videos you see on YouTube are often Wushu. (Also full disclosure, my master rolls his eyes at wushu... IT's really impressive to see, but the flourishes that make wushu look so fancy are apparently huge openings for damage in a real fight?)

 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Integrity includes but goes beyond honesty. Honesty is telling the truth -- in other words, conforming our words to reality. Integrity is conforming reality to our words -- in other words, keeping promises and fulfilling expectations. This requires an integrated character, a oneness, primarily with self but also with life.


One of the most important ways to manifest integrity is to be loyal to those who are not present. In doing so, we build the trust of those who are present. When you defend those who are absent, you retain the trust of those present."

 

- Covey book

 

@Tobbe Im still reading :D

  • Like 1
  • That's Metal 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Aθena said:

 

@Tobbe Im still reading :D

 

📖 👏

 

A while ago I realized our library does audio books, which is pretty awesome! Unfortunately the selection is pretty poor, and the app to listen to them sucks. But I've listened to one Dean Koontz book, and I'm like 90% done with a Robert Ludlum book. But now the app crashes literally every 60 seconds, so I can't finish the book :( Perhaps the book is too long or something (it's 26 hours)

 

5 hours ago, Aθena said:

One of the most important ways to manifest integrity is to be loyal to those who are not present. In doing so, we build the trust of those who are present. When you defend those who are absent, you retain the trust of those present."

 

This is so true! And also one of the reasons I don't understand how anyone can be with someone who's cheating on their current partner. If they're cheating on their current partner, what's to say they won't do it again?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Aθena said:

"Integrity includes but goes beyond honesty. Honesty is telling the truth -- in other words, conforming our words to reality. Integrity is conforming reality to our words -- in other words, keeping promises and fulfilling expectations. This requires an integrated character, a oneness, primarily with self but also with life.

 

I was once told that integrity is what makes us do the right thing when we know that no one will ever hear about it and there is no reward for it and doing the wrong thing, would be so much easier. But we do the right thing anyway, because it's the right thing to do.

 

I think at one point, it used to be called "honor", before that word's meaning shifted to whatever it means today.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

I was once told that integrity is what makes us do the right thing when we know that no one will ever hear about it and there is no reward for it and doing the wrong thing, would be so much easier. But we do the right thing anyway, because it's the right thing to do.

 

Some might call that "stupid". I mean, why not choose the easy way if no one will ever know the difference? Wouldn't a smart person do the lazy/easy thing?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Tobbe said:

Some might call that "stupid". I mean, why not choose the easy way if no one will ever know the difference? Wouldn't a smart person do the lazy/easy thing?

 

 

Pff don't get me started. 

 

or those people that are kind of doing well but are trying to change to "stop being the only stupid one"

 

Being honorful, with integrity, might make me look stupid sometimes in someone's eyes, but that helps me weed out those who I do not want around me. Or should watch out for.

 

My life is much better since I stopped trying to fit in with kids that talk trash about others, and as I got older, learnt to not avoid but be diplomatic with such people.

 

As an adult with my plans, I understand I cannot live in a bubble isolated from people that do not hold the same values as me, and it has been an interesting experience balancing between that and keeping a back bone :D Especially when I used to be active member in my pleading association. Student associations are drama pits.

 

14 hours ago, Tobbe said:

If they're cheating on their current partner, what's to say they won't do it again?

 

YES. THIS.

 

(Also, this was the next example Covey gave about a client of his.

 

He complained could not enjoy Covey's seminars because his wife was all up in his bizz every evening about who he spent time with when away.

 

The background... He met his current wife at events like these *while* he was still married to his ex-wife. 

 

Covey asked him if he wants a quick fix. You cannot simply change that impression someone got from you.)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Aθena said:

"Integrity includes but goes beyond honesty. Honesty is telling the truth -- in other words, conforming our words to reality. Integrity is conforming reality to our words -- in other words, keeping promises and fulfilling expectations. This requires an integrated character, a oneness, primarily with self but also with life.

 

Nice. I liked this one;
"To lack integrity is to underrate both formulating and exemplifying one’s own views. People without integrity trade action on their own views too cheaply for gain, status, reward, approval or for escape from penalties, loss of status, disapproval. Or they trade their own views too readily for the views of others who are more authoritative, more in step with public opinion, less demanding of themselves, and so on."--Calhoun. 1995. Standing for Something

 

12 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

I was once told that integrity is what makes us do the right thing when we know that no one will ever hear about it and there is no reward for it and doing the wrong thing, would be so much easier. But we do the right thing anyway, because it's the right thing to do.

 

I think at one point, it used to be called "honor", before that word's meaning shifted to whatever it means today.

 

My understanding of integrity is more like conformity with one's own values, whereas I feel like honour is conformity with a specific honour code that's agreed on with other people. Honour codes, I think, are specific sets of values from historical time periods--for example those associated with aristocrats, warriors, organised criminals or very patriarchal societies and the family structures then entail (hence honour killings). So two people with very different values could show integrity by behaving according to those values even when things get hard, but they would only be honourable if they exemplify the specific virtue of honour. Maybe one of them doesn't value honour specifically, but rather other values, such as kindness, altruism and reducing suffering in the world (good virtues, but not really honour which usually involves loyalty and dignity, I would think). Not that I have a fully fleshed-out theory of honour and integrity; these are just my initial intuitions on the words. 

 

6 hours ago, Tobbe said:

Some might call that "stupid". I mean, why not choose the easy way if no one will ever know the difference? Wouldn't a smart person do the lazy/easy thing?

 

It depends what you want. If you want certain results and you don't care what kind of person you are, you don't value rules for their own sake, and you don't care about violating any moral principles, then sure, go ahead and do wrong when no one's watching. If you value being a certain kind of person and living in conformity with your principles, then it's irrelevant whether anyone will know what you did; you won't want to do the thing.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Tobbe said:

 

Some might call that "stupid". I mean, why not choose the easy way if no one will ever know the difference? Wouldn't a smart person do the lazy/easy thing?

 

2 hours ago, Harriet said:

 

It depends what you want. If you want certain results and you don't care what kind of person you are, you don't value rules for their own sake, and you don't care about violating any moral principles, then sure, go ahead and do wrong when no one's watching. If you value being a certain kind of person and living in conformity with your principles, then it's irrelevant whether anyone will know what you did; you won't want to do the thing.

 

Harriet beat me to it. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Harriet said:

Honour codes, I think, are specific sets of values from historical time periods--for example those associated with aristocrats, warriors, organised criminals or very patriarchal societies and the family structures then entail (hence honour killings). So two people with very different values could show integrity by behaving according to those values even when things get hard, but they would only be honourable if they exemplify the specific virtue of honour. Maybe one of them doesn't value honour specifically, but rather other values, such as kindness, altruism and reducing suffering in the world (good virtues, but not really honour which usually involves loyalty and dignity, I would think). Not that I have a fully fleshed-out theory of honour and integrity; these are just my initial intuitions on the words. 

 

Scifi Debris has some interesting comments on this in one of their Star Trek TNG reviews. They suggest that there are two kinds of honor: Internal and external.

 

The external is the set of values that society expects you to conform to and will shame you for breaking. The internal one is your personal code, and they are not necessarily fully in alignment with each other. When they are not, then a person may choose to sacrifice their integrity and obey the external set of values in order to avoid the the shame society might heap on them otherwise. But that person then has to face the internal consequences of breaking their own personal honor code, and now we nave narrative conflict. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aaand, a smart person who wants to be a certain kind of person, will eventually realise that only works if you do stuff even if no-one is watching.

 

Average/half-assedness leaks through the cracks sooner or later. (Sniff, sniff :D )

 

***

 

I really wanted to eat fishy things the last few days, so I did. 

 

And as I tried to experiment with preventing or silecing burps, I found out milk makes me burp more.

 

So mom bought me lactose-free milk. And I'm good. I guess like with gluten. I am not intolerant. Just sensitive. Interesting!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.