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Today was the last day to submit my final project for one of my grad school data science classes - I'm technically not done but still have a two-week extension the powers-that-be gave to everyone; that said, my goal is to wrap that up with a bow and submit it by the end of this week so I can coast into the holidays (are there work deadlines between now and then? sure - but heck, it's just work, and there are always deadlines, that's no reason to stress!).

 

Otherwise, my only goals are as follows:

  • Get good sleep (and don't stress about waking up early)
  • Eat the produce I've bought before I leave for the holidays (or cook it into stuff that'll store well til I get back)
  • Do fun, festive, and social things whenever my time and energy allows!
  • Enjoy the seasonal treats (i.e. Christmas Cookies) when I go home and visit my family for a week
  • Still show up to scheduled dance practices and give a solid effort while I'm there

Everything else can wait til the new year (or at least, til I'm home from the holiday visit and I have the week leading up to New Years where I'm working and back in my home base).

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 Ballroom dancer, data nerd, calisthenics dabbler

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Those look like a good set of goals.

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52

"By the Most-Righteous-and-Blessed Beard of Sir Tanktimus the Encourager!" - Jarl Rurik Harrgath

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Good luck wrapping up the project!

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Raptron, alot assassin

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Welcome y'all!

 

21 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

Those look like a good set of goals.

:D

 

20 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Here, great to see you!

:D

 

57 minutes ago, Harriet said:

Alright! You can do it! (I assume eating cookies is easier than finishing the project, but just in case, I will give you some extra encouragement to eat the cookies: eat the cookies! I believe in you!)

Haha, so...due to history of what probably qualifies as a mild eating disorder (and at the very least, is some effed up internal monologues re: food), eating cookies guilt-free is actually harder than finishing a statistics project I'm really excited about. So I wholeheartedly appreciate the encouragement!

 

17 minutes ago, raptron said:

Good luck wrapping up the project!

Thank you! I'm hoping to put a bow on it no later than tomorrow, ideally today if I can carve out an hour or two during my work day to do the thing, plus do some peer reviews.

 

Week so far:

  • Sleep has been fitful (waking up at ~5 or 5:30) but I've been able to stay asleep until about 8:30 (or even 9:30, today - whoopsies)
  • Made chili and jalapeno cheddar cornbread when my BF came over for date night last night, also have some carrot sticks chopped for munching and made some sweet potato casserole baked oatmeal (see ya, produce! you're getting eaten).
  • Haven't done any work on the final project since early Monday - yesterday was focused entirely on prepping for a lovely date night
  • The aforementioned lovely date night consisted of me making a three bean chili with a side of jalapeno cheddar cornbread for my BF and I, then we put up my Christmas decor - we had his playlist of favorite Christmas songs going in the background and a video of a fireplace going on my TV. My apartment feels like a winter wonderland and it's magical (I've just gotta keep ignoring the pile of dishes in my sink, lol).

 

The stats project, for the curious: in full econ nerdery, I looked at inflation adjusted changes in home prices from 1996 to present in the US and compared them to more classic investments (specifically, the S&P 500 index, U.S. 10-year treasuries, and AAA-rated US corporate bonds) to answer the question "Is a personal home an investment?" Short answer: it's not, but that doesn't mean it's not a good financial decision (the NYT has a nice calculator for looking at the tradeoff of renting vs buying that factors a LOT of things in - the corollary of having lots of variables you can tweak is you need some good info to pick the right values:  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html). I also learned that Zillow has a TROVE of home price data, and it will certainly inspire follow-on analyses! I plan on sharing it somewhere on the Internet (probably github) along with the code, etc. I used for the analysis. And will probably spend some free time, when I have that, building on it, because I'm really enjoying geeking out and it's useful for exploring some career question marks I have in my head (such as, do I want to get a graduate degree in economics and/or try to shift my professional career towards economic research? Do I want to go even deeper in my data science education? etc.).

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 Ballroom dancer, data nerd, calisthenics dabbler

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Okee, quick updates from Wednesday and Thursday):

  • Sleep's been spotty on both the quality and quantity fronts - I suspect my habits need some tweaking to support this getting back on track (also, two restaurant margaritas after about a month of no drinking was one too many, and definitely f*cked with sleep last night) 
  • Weather here has been amazing, so I've gotten out for walks most days
  • Went out for a really fun double date after work last night - and got some good home project time in to tie up a couple loose ends around my place

Back to dance practice today for our last weekend of practice til next year - crazy how quickly the end of the year and the holidays are upon us!

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 Ballroom dancer, data nerd, calisthenics dabbler

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That may be the first calculator that included the opportunity cost on the down payment if it were to be invested instead of used to purchase. I'm impressed. Of course, then it's only valid if you do indeed have the down payment and invest it for the future like you're supposed to.

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On 12/12/2020 at 1:12 AM, juliebarkley said:

That may be the first calculator that included the opportunity cost on the down payment if it were to be invested instead of used to purchase. I'm impressed. Of course, then it's only valid if you do indeed have the down payment and invest it for the future like you're supposed to.

Yep! It's one of the best ones I've seen around, though I think some of their default assumptions are a bit off and I'd want to tweak them based on data as a result (4% nominal investment return? that's lower than what US 10-year treasuries delivered over the past 25 years, to speak nothing of less conservative investments). To be fair, if you don't have the cash for the down payment, "rent or buy?" is sort of a moot question, no?

 

My only other quibble is it doesn't have any sort of estimation for PMI for <20% down payments, although that's probably too in the weeds or something that could be lumped into the nominal APR in the calculator.

 

But your point about the behavioral aspect more generally is entirely fair and unfortunately too personal for any online calculator to account for (though I can totally imagine and old school BuzzFeed style quiz "Tell us your favorite sandwich condiment and pizza toppings and we'll tell you if you have the financial discipline to buy and hold investments!" in my ridiculous brain). The psychology of personal money management is a very real problem that undermines results for tons of folks, and unfortunately it probably helps perpetuate wealth gaps across generations as well - I admittedly have no data to back up this claim, but I've noticed anecdotally that I've internalized many of my parents' attitudes towards money and had to combat some of the insecurities I inherited from them with troves of data.

 

1 hour ago, KB Girl said:

Most minimalist Mike-Challenge mever.

hi ;) 

Hi!! And welcome aboard the Minimalist Mike Meandering Musings Metrobus*. It feels good to lower expectations to near-zero for a hot minute and let the fire rebuild inside.

 

*Literally the only M word I could think of for a vehicle, wish I could throw in a better one.

 

Update from the past couple days (Holiday 1.5-17):

  • Friday was a dull work day, followed by a very, very nice dance lesson - my coach's new partner was in town for some training time with him, and as a result he had her jump in on our lesson to offer a different perspective to what we've been getting from him. She started us down a really cool path of a different way to approach posture and correct foot articulation that's immediately made some things click for me in ways that they haven't with previous explanations of the same concepts. Unfortunately, my partner may have overworked a calf muscle to the point of spasming, so we took today off of practice to let him rest it up and massage it out.
  • Saturday was a dance practice working the new topics (including my partner's calf spasm) and then a really nice date night with the BF - we stopped by a friend's virtual zoom holiday party for like an hour (unfortunately it was mostly friends from his other friend group I don't know super well, so it felt weirdly like I was an outsider looking in), got takeout from a new-to-me Indian place that was quite good, and cuddled while watching "The Prom" on Netflix. We were both pretty into it as a movie-musical dealing with coming out stories and how they affect parent-child relations, but idk if it'd be as enjoyable for others
  • Today, I'm doing mostly a whole lot of nothing - did some budget tweaking to plan for expenses for the coming year (mostly taking advantage of new features in YNAB, my budgeting tool of choice), took a trip to a new-to-me donut shop in the pouring rain (leaping over puddles was needed, but worth it to get myself a churro donut), and now I'm thinking I'll watch a movie, do some year-end planning / reflecting, and research the bodyweight beginner workout routine I'm likely to use to regain some noob gainz to start off the coming year (specifically, the Recommended Routine from reddit's bodyweightfitness sub). Also, will probably drink some hot chocolate and stare at my Christmas decor - it's really cozy and making me very happy I put it up, especially this year of all years.
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 Ballroom dancer, data nerd, calisthenics dabbler

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56 minutes ago, Mike Wazowski said:

The psychology of personal money management is a very real problem that undermines results for tons of folks, and unfortunately it probably helps perpetuate wealth gaps across generations as well - I admittedly have no data to back up this claim, but I've noticed anecdotally that I've internalized many of my parents' attitudes towards money and had to combat some of the insecurities I inherited from them with troves of data.

I think you are very much correct. What I've seen anecdotally confirms this. Also, many of the same issues with delayed gratification that make nutrition and fitness difficult make personal financial management difficult. 

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52

"By the Most-Righteous-and-Blessed Beard of Sir Tanktimus the Encourager!" - Jarl Rurik Harrgath

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1 hour ago, Mike Wazowski said:

My only other quibble is it doesn't have any sort of estimation for PMI for <20% down payments, although that's probably too in the weeds or something that could be lumped into the nominal APR in the calculator.

Not too in the weeds. Aren't like a third of mortgages insured? It's got to be accounted for somewhere.

 

1 hour ago, Mike Wazowski said:

The psychology of personal money management is a very real problem that undermines results for tons of folks, and unfortunately it probably helps perpetuate wealth gaps across generations as well - I admittedly have no data to back up this claim, but I've noticed anecdotally that I've internalized many of my parents' attitudes towards money and had to combat some of the insecurities I inherited from them with troves of data.

I have only anecdotal data to back it up, but I meet a lot of different people across the class/income spectrum over the course of my work, and I have let's say a colourful and varied family, and I am convinced that money psychology has a HUGE influence on wealth gaps. Some people with, say, a $40,000 income live well on it, have savings, and don't feel deprived. Others with the same family/health/etc. situation (to eliminate other cost of living differences) have a pile of debt and are incredulous that anyone could live on that sum. The underlying values on things that are only indirectly related to money are very different between the two groups as well, from what I can glean from conversations. It feels like a whole different worldview.

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52 minutes ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

I think you are very much correct. What I've seen anecdotally confirms this. Also, many of the same issues with delayed gratification that make nutrition and fitness difficult make personal financial management difficult. 

Makes sense - and unfortunately, personal finance is another area where the overwhelming bulk of the information out there focuses on the relatively easy information ("spend less than you earn" is the PF equivalent of "eat fewer calories than you consume" and you could equate lots of money heuristics to nutritional ones) while papering over the much more important and much more difficult challenges of how to customize an approach to one's lifestyle for long-term, sustainable adherence to a plan that is [good enough, but almost certainly suboptimal in a theoretical sense] but is [far superior in a practical sense to a theoretically superior plan with very poor chances of adherence]. In part because "do something that's good enough for you to get results, and do it consistently but also don't lose your sanity over occasional times where you don't do that thing" both makes for a terrible headline and a terribly wishy-washy sounding article in all but the best of writers' hands.

 

49 minutes ago, juliebarkley said:

Not too in the weeds. Aren't like a third of mortgages insured? It's got to be accounted for somewhere.

You prompted me to look this up - looks like something in the ballpark of that (maybe 37% of all new mortgages in 2019, but ~58% if you include FHA and VA type insurance as well) based on pages 7-8 of this report: https://www.urban.org/research/publication/mortgage-insurance-data-glance-2019/view/full_report.

 

I think for an individual borrower, you could just account for it by upping your mortgage rate in the calculator, assuming that your lender is correctly rolling the impact of PMI into the APR (and assuming my understanding of that is correct - I've never had a mortgage and my professional experience in the banking sector was entirely with auto loans where the only costs were interest, principal, and late fees). It's probably imperfect for modeling the cashflows (PMI falls off once you hit 20% equity, I believe, but I'm not certain), but I consider any calculator more of a directional read* given its sensitivity to hard to predict for certain factors (including macro ones like home appreciation, rent increases, and investment returns as well as micro ones like "how long *will* you live here, anyway?")

 

*In case that's more business jargon-y than I realize, essentially I'm reducing the calculator outputs down to "renting is way better", "renting is a bit better", "it's a toss-up", "buying is a bit better", and "buying is way better" in how I'd interpret the results. Now, it's going to be a bit of an economic data project for me to crunch through the numbers and get a sense of what the approximate correct values should be for the different inputs to my situation - which I'm pretty excited to do, because I'm likely to buy a larger space than I currently rent and that's not something that often gets factored in when talking about buying vs. renting a home.

 

49 minutes ago, juliebarkley said:

I have only anecdotal data to back it up, but I meet a lot of different people across the class/income spectrum over the course of my work, and I have let's say a colourful and varied family, and I am convinced that money psychology has a HUGE influence on wealth gaps. Some people with, say, a $40,000 income live well on it, have savings, and don't feel deprived. Others with the same family/health/etc. situation (to eliminate other cost of living differences) have a pile of debt and are incredulous that anyone could live on that sum. The underlying values on things that are only indirectly related to money are very different between the two groups as well, from what I can glean from conversations. It feels like a whole different worldview.

Totally could see that - and definitely do, to some extent, within my peer group (though there are some big income gaps among the people I interact with and I don't know exactly how big because money's kiiiiinda a taboo topic that I don't always feel comfortable broaching). Some folks don't seem to have any noticeable money concerns and really enjoy their lives and what they're able to do, and others often complain about how the cost of living is "just too high" these days. Also, student loans are a confounding factor as all the people I'm thinking of have a university degree (and many also a graduate degree) and I've been in the relatively lucky camp of finding well-compensated work after just an undergrad degree (and getting that degree without loans thanks to very generous scholarship / grant support from the university, my family buying savings bonds to help with college costs when I was very young, and my own summer earnings filling in the small remaining gaps). But still, the point is that happiness with one's financial situation among people I know seems to be as much about approach and mindset as about actual level of income (/ wealth - though the two are correlated enough, with obvious outliers to that correlation, that I don't often distinguish them).

 Ballroom dancer, data nerd, calisthenics dabbler

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24 minutes ago, Mike Wazowski said:

Makes sense - and unfortunately, personal finance is another area where the overwhelming bulk of the information out there focuses on the relatively easy information ("spend less than you earn" is the PF equivalent of "eat fewer calories than you consume" and you could equate lots of money heuristics to nutritional ones) while papering over the much more important and much more difficult challenges of how to customize an approach to one's lifestyle for long-term, sustainable adherence to a plan that is [good enough, but almost certainly suboptimal in a theoretical sense] but is [far superior in a practical sense to a theoretically superior plan with very poor chances of adherence]. In part because "do something that's good enough for you to get results, and do it consistently but also don't lose your sanity over occasional times where you don't do that thing" both makes for a terrible headline and a terribly wishy-washy sounding article in all but the best of writers' hands.

Yes. I want to copy and paste this all over the internet. 

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12 minutes ago, KB Girl said:

Yes. I want to copy and paste this all over the internet. 

D'aww thank you! I can't claim it's an original thought, more a distillation of the things that have resonated with me in both the health and general life management spaces as I've matured as an adult (I.e. what resonates now is veeeeery different than what resonated way back when I was just starting out on my journey in health and fitness or in personal finance).

 Ballroom dancer, data nerd, calisthenics dabbler

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5 hours ago, Mike Wazowski said:

The psychology of personal money management is a very real problem that undermines results for tons of folks, and unfortunately it probably helps perpetuate wealth gaps across generations as well - I admittedly have no data to back up this claim, but I've noticed anecdotally that I've internalized many of my parents' attitudes towards money and had to combat some of the insecurities I inherited from them with troves of data.

 

4 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

I think you are very much correct. What I've seen anecdotally confirms this. Also, many of the same issues with delayed gratification that make nutrition and fitness difficult make personal financial management difficult. 

 

4 hours ago, juliebarkley said:

Some people with, say, a $40,000 income live well on it, have savings, and don't feel deprived. Others with the same family/health/etc. situation (to eliminate other cost of living differences) have a pile of debt and are incredulous that anyone could live on that sum. The underlying values on things that are only indirectly related to money are very different between the two groups as well, from what I can glean from conversations. It feels like a whole different worldview.

 

2 hours ago, Mike Wazowski said:

But still, the point is that happiness with one's financial situation among people I know seems to be as much about approach and mindset as about actual level of income (/ wealth - though the two are correlated enough, with obvious outliers to that correlation, that I don't often distinguish them).

 

I am firmly convinced that  one of the most important psychological factors when it comes to money management, at least the USA, is that no one wants to be perceived as "poor". And a lot of people overcorrect by trying to hard to act like they have more money than they do, and those are the ones who accumulate credit card debt over time. Because driving a cars that is perfectly serviceable and safe, and very obviously 20 years old, is unthinkable to them. In their mind, it is preferable to take out a loan to buy a new vehicle, because otherwise, people might think they can't afford to buy a new car!

 

 

Unrelated to finance: Do you remember a couple of challenges ago (I think?) when you were talking about being involved in opening an employee network/support group for LGBTQ+ employees at your job, and I became all inspired to get involved with similar groups at my job? Work is launching a series of company wide mandatory-for-everyone workshops on inclusion allyship for every underrepresented group they can think of, and they asked me to help facilitate the ones for the Women's Network. I'm excited! :) 

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You are correct about PMI dropping off after 20% equity.

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"By the Most-Righteous-and-Blessed Beard of Sir Tanktimus the Encourager!" - Jarl Rurik Harrgath

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1 hour ago, Scaly Freak said:

I am firmly convinced that  one of the most important psychological factors when it comes to money management, at least the USA, is that no one wants to be perceived as "poor". And a lot of people overcorrect by trying to hard to act like they have more money than they do, and those are the ones who accumulate credit card debt over time. Because driving a cars that is perfectly serviceable and safe, and very obviously 20 years old, is unthinkable to them. In their mind, it is preferable to take out a loan to buy a new vehicle, because otherwise, people might think they can't afford to buy a new car!

Seems very plausible - obviously not something I have any data on (nor am I sure it'd be easy to collect said data, since getting reliable data would involve getting people to admit something they maybe would rather not or being clever in how you got them to indicate that and having that cleverness be a reliable substitute for the thing you're trying to measure that you can still use it in research - ok, this has just turned into a run on parenthetical aside about the difficulty in collecting social science data when it relates to people's internalized beliefs).

 

1 hour ago, Scaly Freak said:

Unrelated to finance: Do you remember a couple of challenges ago (I think?) when you were talking about being involved in opening an employee network/support group for LGBTQ+ employees at your job, and I became all inspired to get involved with similar groups at my job? Work is launching a series of company wide mandatory-for-everyone workshops on inclusion allyship for every underrepresented group they can think of, and they asked me to help facilitate the ones for the Women's Network. I'm excited! :)

Ahh yes, that's wonderful!!!! I actually have a teensy update there - we had leadership elections for the corporate diversity council I'm on, and while I'm a bit bummed I didn't win my election (ran for Vice Chair) I was really pleasantly surprised to only narrowly lose (3 votes out of 28) to what I considered a really strong opponent (and now I get to work hard with no official title, which isn't all bad either - makes it easier to decommit when I'm not feeling super excited to do something).

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 Ballroom dancer, data nerd, calisthenics dabbler

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Quick update from the rest of Sunday - it was restful, but I stayed up way too late researching possible upgrades to kitchen knives, among other things. I did make a ton of food for the week - homemade jalapeno cheddar cornbread and roasted broccoli as sides to go with some chili leftover from last week, plus some homemade chocolate chip banana bread for general delicious snacking. Also washed up my whole pile of laundry so I'm well set up to pack up and head to my parents' home for a week at the end of this week - just gotta survive the week and the several work deadlines between now and then.

 

Somehow, in spite of staying up too late, my 6.5 hours asleep was still enough better than last Sunday evening that my nightly sleep average went *up* and not down when yesterday night's replaced a week ago's number. Definitely gonna be prioritizing sleep quality / quantity highly for the rest of the year and into the new year.

 

ETA: also, in my researching of kitchen tool upgrades, I realized that to complement a fancy knife, were I to get one, I'd probably want to upgrade from my plastic cutting boards so that I'm *not* wearing down the surface of the blade quite so much with each use, though that's certainly more of a nice-to-have than a strict necessity. Oh, and probably a magnetic strip so I can have my knives always out on the wall (looks like Target makes an affordable one that fits with my general decor color scheme).

 

Oh, and another little upheaval: a close contact I saw recently started showing Covid symptoms this morning, so now I'm researching testing options and might shuffle my travel plans around a little to make seeing my family, safely, still possible (of course, pending me testing negative and continuing to show *zero* symptoms beyond the usual anosmia I have from a chronic sinus infection). Though that all becomes a little less scary if said contact tests negative (fingers crossed!).

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 Ballroom dancer, data nerd, calisthenics dabbler

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I hope testing is as amply available in your area as it is in mine! I asked my mom for cutting boards one year for my birthday after getting a nice knife -- so maybe keep in mind these kitchen upgrades could be wish list material. ;)

 

20 hours ago, Mike Wazowski said:

Some folks don't seem to have any noticeable money concerns and really enjoy their lives and what they're able to do, and others often complain about how the cost of living is "just too high" these days. 

I'm able to live pretty comfortably, but my thoughts about cost of living (mostly housing and medical care) are something I complain about ALL OF THE TIME and are a big part of my politics, haha. 

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Raptron, alot assassin

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1 minute ago, raptron said:

I hope testing is as amply available in your area as it is in mine! I asked my mom for cutting boards one year for my birthday after getting a nice knife -- so maybe keep in mind these could kitchen upgrades could be wish list material. ;)

Yes, thankfully it's amply available! Now I'm just trying to figure out timing - I *think* it makes sense to wait til tomorrow since PCR tests are supposed to give results in 3 days around here (though technically, I'd need to be tested Wednesday or later to meet Chicago's travel orders, were I traveling into the city - I'm going to the suburbs so it's somewhat moot). Basically, I'm trying to balance the "get tested when you're most likely to test positive if you are, in fact, infected" alongside "get tested so that you'll have your results in hand to inform travel decisions" (yay, uncertainty! lol).

 

And true, very true - a nice wood cutting board or two might very well turn into a birthday wish list item.

 

1 minute ago, raptron said:

I'm able to live pretty comfortably, but my thoughts about cost of living (mostly housing and medical care) are something I complain about ALL OF THE TIME and are a big part of my politics, haha. 

Oh, to be fair - I *absolutely agree *on the affordability of medical care (especially mental health, and ongoing care for some chronic conditions) being a huge issue that plays a big part of my politics, and housing affordability to a lesser extent (there are quite a few affordable places to rent in my metro area, but there's definitely a homogenization of housing at a narrow band of price points within neighborhoods that leads to the issues you'd expect, and I'd like to see my local government take steps to try and address this)

 

But I was thinking about some people in my circles who say things like "you can't afford to live in Dallas on less than $100k a year these days" which is a WILD take, imo - without going into my exact financial situation in terms of income, I will talk about expenses and say that I live a very comfortable bougie bachelor life in Dallas on roughly the equivalent of what someone making the median household income for the US (mid $60k range), saving 20% pre-tax in a 401(k), and paying taxes as a single guy with no major deductions would (it's in the neighborhood of $45k take home, when last I calculated it). So basically, my life is a living counterpoint to that (essentially, my lifestyle shows "hey, you could probably save for the future and live a comfortable life in Dallas on around $60k a year of income), even if I do have a few factors in my favor (no student loans, well managed health conditions / reasonable insurance from my employer, no dependents), that gets me dismissed out of hand and someone continues on their rant about how no one can afford to live in our city (despite it being far and away the most affordable of the top 4 most populous metro areas in the US: NYC, LA, and Chicago being the other 3; and despite a reasonably large number of people getting by well enough on far less than $100k a year). Ok, that was really a rant about one friend who I really disagree with on the issue, probably.

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2 minutes ago, Mike Wazowski said:

But I was thinking about some people in my circles who say things like "you can't afford to live in Dallas on less than $100k a year these days" which is a WILD take, imo - without going into my exact financial situation in terms of income, I will talk about expenses and say that I live a very comfortable bougie bachelor life in Dallas on roughly the equivalent of what someone making the median household income for the US (mid $60k range), saving 20% pre-tax in a 401(k), and paying taxes as a single guy with no major deductions would (it's in the neighborhood of $45k take home, when last I calculated it). So basically, my life is a living counterpoint to that (essentially, my lifestyle shows "hey, you could probably save for the future and live a comfortable life in Dallas on around $60k a year of income), even if I do have a few factors in my favor (no student loans, well managed health conditions / reasonable insurance from my employer, no dependents), that gets me dismissed out of hand and someone continues on their rant about how no one can afford to live in our city (despite it being far and away the most affordable of the top 4 most populous metro areas in the US: NYC, LA, and Chicago being the other 3; and despite a reasonably large number of people getting by well enough on far less than $100k a year). Ok, that was really a rant about one friend who I really disagree with on the issue, probably.

Gotchaaaaa gotcha gotcha! Yeah, people say similar things about Boston. What they usually mean is "live alone" --  hahah. However, that's changed quite a bit this year as well with people moving out of the city and a ton of empty apartments from the students not fully returning this fall. 

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Raptron, alot assassin

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3 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

The annoying thing when people say that is that couples who live together can reduce their spending per person quite dramatically compared to single people...

So true. And the number of people I've seen move in together too fast to save money or stay in relationships they shouldn't just because it's so expensive to break up... oooooof. 🙊

Raptron, alot assassin

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8 minutes ago, raptron said:

Gotchaaaaa gotcha gotcha! Yeah, people say similar things about Boston. What they usually mean is "live alone" --  hahah. However, that's changed quite a bit this year as well with people moving out of the city and a ton of empty apartments from the students not fully returning this fall. 

Haha and that's totally fair - though Dallas doesn't even really have that, you can get a 1-bedroom fairly affordably, especially if you're willing to compromise on spaciousness and/or newness.

 

2 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

The annoying thing when people say that is that couples who live together can reduce their spending per person quite dramatically compared to single people...

^honestly, when I first went off the deep end into personal finance, I would get sad that I was single *because* my spending per person was so much higher than if I was pooling income and expenses with a life partner (not a healthy approach to relationships, in case anyone was curious :P).

 

1 minute ago, raptron said:

So true. And the number of people I've seen move in together too fast to save money or stay in relationships they shouldn't just because it's so expensive to break up... oooooof. 🙊

BIG OOOOF, indeed. Note to self: aim hard to avoid that particular relationship pitfall.

 Ballroom dancer, data nerd, calisthenics dabbler

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