Stronkey Kong -- Bodhisattva transforms flaming hornets into butterflies

[Stronkey Kong]

18 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

The Buddha is coming together nicely. I'm remembering more about Buddhism from my world religions class (The professor had just been on sabbatical a couple of years before and spent a lot of time with buddhist groups, so that section was very thorough). I remember talking extensively about Pure Land Buddhism, and watching a Buddhist service with the namu myoho renge kyo chant. Is Nichiren a form of Pure Land buddhism, or are they two separate groups? 

 

I had to google that one. It sounded familiar but I knew nothing about it. I did find out that there are (in addition to the two Zen schools) three different forms of pure land Buddhism, and then Nichiren is the odd Buddha out. Those six were founded right around the same time (during the Kamakura period) in Japan 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamakura_period

 

All are Mahayana. What's odd about Nichiren is it seems like it wants to make the "Pure Land"( which in my recollection is basically like Buddhist heaven where everyone who becomes enlightened lives forever) and make it a realized, utopian civilization of enlightened Buddhas on Earth, Naturally, someone in the Meiji era decided that it should probably be in Japan and that the Japanese government should get everyone on board... yada, yada, yada... nationalism strikes again, the rest is history.

 

This is why separation of church and state and religious freedom are important.

 

And not to disparage Nichiren Buddhism just because bad politics decided to co-opt it to legitimize a power structure.

 

16 hours ago, Harriet said:

 

It's really nice. It has a little of the softness around the face and neck that you see in many depictions of the buddha and similar characters.

 

Thanks. That's exactly what I was aiming for.

 

4 hours ago, fearless 2.0 said:

*waves*

 

 

 

3 hours ago, PaulG said:

I’m beginning to understand why visionaries such as Gandhi had whole journals dedicated to tracking their BMs.

 

I'd imagine I know being constipated is not conducive to obtaining yogic bliss, inner peace, or enlightenment.

[Stronkey Kong]

Lately I've had to find a previous post with my goals, and check the list of goals to see if I got them all.

 

I don't feel like doing that, so I'm just gonna wing it and see if I get em all.

 

Mindfulness: Still and unbroken streak, though tonight was challenging and if ever there was a day I needed it.

 

By the time I left work, I was quite angry. Mostly due to hunger and/or the machine again. I was mindful of both all afternoon. I had gotten into an accepting rhythm over the machine's quirks. Noticing the frustration it produced in the morning, I accepted that I wasn't going to be able to fix the issue and that getting the work done was more important, so I used it as a form of meditative practice.

 

Lo Jong mind training: a Tibetan set of slogans used to train the mind in generating Bodhicitta -- I'm not sure which one or several apply here, but I know one of the teachings is to be grateful of something you find frustrating as an object of practice.

 

So, once I became mindful of how the machine angered me, I trained myself to just take a breath and accept that a problem needed to be fixed, to fix it, and move on.

 

In the late morning I was like "Mother fucker.... again its the same fucking problem... what the fuck!" -- Inhale -- exhale -- fix problem

 

By late after noon I was like "Mother fu" -- inhale -- exhale -- fix problem.

 

Progress.

 

Then as I got further into the day, the hanger set in, though it was mostly counter balanced by the fact that it was Friday afternoon and I was glad to be leaving soon.

 

And on the way home I was reminded of the horrific and pointless mass shooting that occurred just across town, and by the time I got home I was having plenty of arguments in my head with others whom I've had conversations about the 2nd amendment vs. gun control debate........ <sigh>

 

Here's the thing. It'd be acceptable to just feel sad and grief stricken over a tragedy like this... and I do. That would be acceptable and normal even if stressful... that all comes from a good place. that comes from empathy and compassion... that's Bodhicitta.

 

But when I'm having an imagined argument with confederate co-worker, racist Grandpa et al., that's all ego. There's no need for that. There's no need to invent a situation that hasn't happened to try to win a debate in.

 

So I was clearly in need of some real meditative work.

 

I've been dealing with some back soreness that began when I stretched a little too far on a twist during my stretching routine. Tonight I was so sore I initially bowed out from my normal seated, shitty lotus posture meditation and lied down and just chanted mantras for a while. I later got around to stretching and doing the regular, but I only made it through 15 min before I called it. I'm still calling it good on meditation for the day.

 

Okay, I was gonna go through all the goals, but no. I'm tired. This is the latest I've been up in a month or more. I just needed to unload about how my meditation practice was in extra need and stifled by current circumstances.

 

Ugh.

[Scaly Freak]

11 minutes ago, Stronkey Kong said:

Here's the thing. It'd be acceptable to just feel sad and grief stricken over a tragedy like this... and I do. That would be acceptable and normal even if stressful... that all comes from a good place. that comes from empathy and compassion... that's Bodhicitta.

 

But when I'm having an imagined argument with confederate co-worker, racist Grandpa et al., that's all ego. There's no need for that. There's no need to invent a situation that hasn't happened to try to win a debate in.

 

When this happens to me, it's a loud warning from the anxiety that it's gearing up for a massive blast of self-combustion and internal flame throwing. Maybe relevant, maybe not.

 

Could possibly be a way for our brains to process the sad and grief from the tragedy?

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

8 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

When this happens to me, it's a loud warning from the anxiety that it's gearing up for a massive blast of self-combustion and internal flame throwing. Maybe relevant, maybe not.

 

Could possibly be a way for our brains to process the sad and grief from the tragedy?

I've recently learned as well that persistent anger and imagined arguments are indicative of an anxiety loop . 

[Stronkey Kong]

9 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

When this happens to me, it's a loud warning from the anxiety that it's gearing up for a massive blast of self-combustion and internal flame throwing. Maybe relevant, maybe not.

 

Could possibly be a way for our brains to process the sad and grief from the tragedy?

 

1 hour ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

I've recently learned as well that persistent anger and imagined arguments are indicative of an anxiety loop . 

 

Yeah. I've been aware of these types of thought processes as a warning sign of my anxiety and depression. So for a few years now I've been able to hault myself there, and try to work on it.

 

But the new insight I'm having is that I frame this external occurrence as a personal debate against a person in my life that I perceive as a symbol of the idea I don't like. And here's why that's a problem.

1. The person who is appearing as the target of my anger did not, in this instance, say anything to oppose my feelings on the issue and until they do express such thoughts they do not deserve blame.
2. I am reinforcing a mental pattern and construct that creates or worsens biases against that person. I'm judging them negatively for things they haven't done.
3.  If I continue to support these biased cognitive processes, I'm more likely to act on them in the future which could escalate one of these debates very quickly when they do happen.
4. Which could easily lead to  bad consequences, strained relationships, fall-outs, etc.

Instead of engaging in the imagined debate and trying to win it (which is just what the ego wants to do to protect itself), I should recognize it for what it is and replace it.

 

1. Recognize that the anger/anxiety is my own and not necessarily anyone else's. Nobody else is causing it except me. Not even the triggering element is to blame.
2. Forgive.
3. Hope and remind myself that anyone can change for the better; including myself.
4. Admit that I am not always right, and that most of life is a big blurry, grey thing.
5. Realize that even if someone reaches the conclusion that I don't accept, it might not be for the reasons I suspect. Those are my own biases. Ask questions. Don't hurl insults or arguments.
6. Strive to see the whole person, not just their stance on one issue.

Now there's still anxiety, anger, grief etc. to deal with, but those are just emotions that can pass on by like a wave if we acknowledge them and let them be instead of fighting with them, or some illusory mental projection of them.

 

I'm also reminded of a Zen proverb about karma:

 

Negative thoughts are like a knife drawn through water;  they leave no marks, only little ripples that settle quickly when they subside.

Negative words are like a knife drawn through the sand; they leave a trail that can be undone with a little effort.

Negative actions are like a knife drawn through stone; the mark left behind can take great time and effort to polish away.

 

 

[Harriet]

2 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

I've recently learned as well that persistent anger and imagined arguments are indicative of an anxiety loop . 

 

Agreed. For me, rehearsing arguments is often about fear (that I won't be able to make myself clear when the moment comes... that things will go badly and I can preempt this by planning what I'm going to say) or resentment (that someone didn't listen to me or didn't consider how their words/actions affect other people.)

 

16 minutes ago, Stronkey Kong said:

1. Realize that even if someone reaches the conclusion that I don't accept, it might not be for the reasons I suspect. Those are my own biases. Ask questions. Don't hurl insults or arguments.
2. Strive to see the whole person, not just their stance on one issue.

 

These are good ideas. I try to read about the viewpoints of people I disagree with, and I have come to the conclusion that people's fears and desires are often legitimate, even if I believe they have reached the wrong conclusion about how to act on them in the world. Of course not all desires are valid--some people just want power over others or want to harm others to benefit themselves. Many, many people, however, have a perfectly moral emotional life that is wrapped in the world view held by those in their social circles. I have found it can be very defusing to talk about the emotions and motivations directly. "Oh, it sounds like you want to live in a society where people are rewarded for merit and hard work. I understand that, though I would also like to live in a society where we take care of those who are unlucky or vulnerable. I think we can have both because..."

 

16 minutes ago, Stronkey Kong said:

Negative thoughts are like a knife drawn through water;  they leave no marks, only little ripples that settle quickly when they subside.

Negative words are like a knife drawn through the sand; they leave a trail that can be undone with a little effort.

Negative actions are like a knife drawn through stone; the mark left behind can take great time and effort to polish away.

This is a wonderful image.

[sarakingdom]

2 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

I've recently learned as well that persistent anger and imagined arguments are indicative of an anxiety loop . 

 

Well, now you're just describing the past 20 years of my life.

[Scaly Freak]

3 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

I've recently learned as well that persistent anger and imagined arguments are indicative of an anxiety loop . 

 

I remember reading about this a few years ago and being very surprised to learn that this isn't a normal thing that everyone does all the time.

 

1 hour ago, Stronkey Kong said:

But the new insight I'm having is that I frame this external occurrence as a personal debate against a person in my life that I perceive as a symbol of the idea I don't like. And here's why that's a problem.

1. The person who is appearing as the target of my anger did not, in this instance, say anything to oppose my feelings on the issue and until they do express such thoughts they do not deserve blame.
2. I am reinforcing a mental pattern and construct that creates or worsens biases against that person. I'm judging them negatively for things they haven't done.
3.  If I continue to support these biased cognitive processes, I'm more likely to act on them in the future which could escalate one of these debates very quickly when they do happen.
4. Which could easily lead to  bad consequences, strained relationships, fall-outs, etc.

Instead of engaging in the imagined debate and trying to win it (which is just what the ego wants to do to protect itself), I should recognize it for what it is and replace it.

1. Recognize that the anger/anxiety is my own and not necessarily anyone else's. Nobody else is causing it except me. Not even the triggering element is to blame.
2. Forgive.
3. Hope and remind myself that anyone can change for the better; including myself.
4. Admit that I am not always right, and that most of life is a big blurry, grey thing.
5. Realize that even if someone reaches the conclusion that I don't accept, it might not be for the reasons I suspect. Those are my own biases. Ask questions. Don't hurl insults or arguments.
6. Strive to see the whole person, not just their stance on one issue.

Now there's still anxiety, anger, grief etc. to deal with, but those are just emotions that can pass on by like a wave if we acknowledge them and let them be instead of fighting with them, or some illusory mental projection of them.

 

All of this is valuable and relevant and I am taking it with me for next time I have an imaginary argument with a person I really don't need to give myself more reasons to dislike.  

[sarakingdom]

3 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

All of this is valuable and relevant and I am taking it with me for next time I have an imaginary argument with a person I really don't need to give myself more reasons to dislike.  

 

Related to the issue of reinforcing mental pathways, the connection between rumination and depression (and how that behavior is extra common in women, because men tend to distract rather than ruminate) is useful to bear in mind when shutting that stuff down. Ruminating on situations, rehearsing arguments, it keeps reinforcing a bigger pattern of emotional upset.

[Stronkey Kong]

 

Mindfulness: I have not yet done my meditation for today, but I will probably do it seated in a regular chair, just because I don't feel like my back is up to it. I definitely have a minor strain and it needs to heal before I push more meditation posture.

 

Lotus Posture: I'll probably stretch out and breathe a bit beforehand, but skip the full on stretch routine.

 

Nourishment: I made a new batch of yogurt overnight. 12 hours incubating with more than the usual starter, it was almost entirely curdled as if I'd made cheese (gonna do that tomorrow). Then I strained it to remove the whey (and a lot of acid) and it was pretty damned good. A little strange, because it was very tart and strong but... cheesier.

 

No bread this weekend. I still have plenty leftover.

 

I made a box of deluxe mac and cheese for dinner to which I added slices of veggie hot dogs, because I can do what I want. I could only finish about half of it whereas normally I can just plow through a whole box easily. I stopped, and put the rest in the fridge for later.

 

Abode: I didn't do anything from the list I made last week. It was mostly piddly stuff anyway. I did clean and reorganize the kitchen a bunch. I moved the microwave onto the corner shelf in the living room... which means its right next to the kitchen anyway. I moved it to free up counter space and since i only use it once a month, I decided it could go. I move the coffee maker to the microwave's old spot, and that freed up a bunch of space on the breakfast counter. Then I tidied and reorganized the counter and a few of the drawers and cabinet spaces.

 

As for this new counter space, I bought some LED plant lights, and pots and seeds and things and I'm going to set up a little countertop herb garden.

 

Creativity:

 

My little buddha now has hands, feet,and robes.

 

Knowledge: More Tibetan alphabet study. I also was listening to an audiobook while cleaning the kitchen: Buddhism: One Teacher, Many Traditions by the Dalai Lama and Thubten Chodron. I'm only a chapter or two in, but its a survey of the history and spread of Buddhism and talks about the different traditions that grew up in different countries around the world. It dovetails nicely with a lot of what I keep bringing up in this challenge thread.

 

BTW... if anyone is interested in learning more about Buddhism, there are a bunch of titles by the Dalai Lama and other prominent Lamas and Buddhist scholars/thinkers on Audible that are included with membership subscription.

 

Wisdom: I'm gonna read some more of the Malumadhyamakakalika before I go to bed tonight.

 

-- Mah Loo Mod Ya Mah Kah Kah Lee Kah -- I totally misspelled it last time I typed it here.

[Stronkey Kong]

 

I got a big dose of dharma yesterday. I went to a second online class and then talked with a teacher later in the evening. 

 

Today is my first day back on night shift, so my daily routines are flopped again.

 

Because of these things, some goals will be changing.

 

Mindfulness Meditation:I'm upgrading this, because what I am going to be doing now is more than just mindfulness meditation. I am going to be practicing a combination of vipassana (focus meditation) , gom (anaylytical meditation), and some visualization practices for compassion. 

 

Lotus position: I'm suspending this goal. Working on it has improved some aspects of my flexibility, but I'm also dealing with a strained back muscle and need to work around it until it heels. I will be meditating in seiza position or sitting on a chair until it's better.

 

Movement: I should go for more  walks, and when this back issue heals up, get into a yoga routine.

 

Nourishment: No differences here, but I need to figure out what to take for two meal at work now since I'm working longer shifts. I'll be working from 4pm till after 2 am now. I'm also going to try to not eat or drink coffee after midnight so I can at least get to sleep by 4 am before the sun comes up.

 

Creativity: I am ambivalent over whether or not it's worth finishing my little Buddha after learning that an authentic Buddha statue has a lot of very specific characteristics and geometric proportions. Selecting a Buddha statue for one's home is not a question of whether or not a Buddha "speaks" to me or "vibes" with my sensibilities, it really does become about respecting a tradition and it's teachings. I could finish it, but it would be better to just call it a daruna (seated meditating figure).

 

Knowledge: After some of the lessons I received yesterday, I'm more inspired to learn more Tibetan because of the terrible and confusing interpretations that arise from poor translations... and it's not just about finding a better word or phrase in English. Tibetan has words for concepts that are entirely foreign and not expressible in English.

 

Wisdom: Read one more chapter of the Mulamadhyamakakarika last night. I had one last spelling error in that last post. Can you spot it?

 

I also learned yesterday how frustrating this text is to Westerners too, and not just spelling out the title. It has a lot of things that are confusing because nothing in it can be taken this way or that... As a self-coherent text on "the middle way" you absolutely have to align your thinking on a razor thin sliver of the middle between the two extremes of thought on whether anything exists.

 

[Stronkey Kong]

Today was a day.

 

I dropped off some boxes at Goodwill and then had my meeting with the Tibetan Buddhist teacher. He's basically a counselor, and in a couple hours of just talking about Buddhism, I made more progress than my year of therapy did... well maybe... we had a good conversation, and it was all free.

 

Basically, he distilled everything down to stop judging things, calm down, think, and retrain your mind to worry less and enjoy life more. That's what Buddhism is, but we make a lot of mistakes because we misjudge a lot of life and create a lot of unnecessary fear and anxiety. And I know this, and still I'm adding layers to it that shouldn't be there. Strip away the bullshit and start seeing life more clearly. Meditate, think, and live.

 

Oh!... and drinking and eating meat.

 

Drinking is okay, but it's not okay to...

 

 

Sober life is best, but drinking isn't necessarily bad as long as you can respect your body and mind, and other peoples' bodies and minds. If you can't do that, you probably shouldn't drink.

 

I'm still going to remain sober for a while tho, just cuz.

 

Meat: Again vegetarian is best... but here's the story, practicing monastics are expected to beg for food and would not refuse meat if given it. People criticized Buddha's teachings because his disciples were eating meat so he gave three commandments about eating meat:

 

1) Not to do the killing oneself.

2) One should not request another to kill an animal for food.

3) One should neither know the animal nor the slaughterer.

 

We also talked about whether buying meat at a market, and thus creating the demand for killing, was incompatible with 2. But it seems that since there are non Buddhists out in the world killing, it would also be a shame to let it go to waste so it's just a gray area. And of course if you're making the decisions, make good ones like supporting sustainable, ethical farming etc.

 

Also, the Dalai Lama is not a complete vegetarian. He does practice vegetarianism every other day, but apparently he became jaundiced a few years ago and since then has had to eat some animal protein for his health. So some thoughtful meat consumption is fine.

 

We also went over all the stuff on his altar... he  has a large shelf, about as wide as a piano keyboard, full of statues, and scripture rolls/boxes and offering bowls... and he's like "Yeah, It's actually a lot for a household, but I'm kinda into it." I asked about the statues and he said to just wait a bit. When I'm ready to get one we'd talk to Geshela (the title of our monk/teacher, I don't know if he's technically a Lama) and he'd have his brother send a proper one from Nepal. Then Geshela would bless it and fill it with goodies (they're hollow so they can be filled with blessed offerings like incense and semi-precious gems and and things) before I would use it for devotional practice.

 

After that I went grocery shopping. I didn't just cut loose and buy a bunch of meat and beer. I decided against beer, but I did buy a sausage, meatball, and pepperoni pizza.   I forgot to get more tofu

 

But I got more flour and milk for making cheese and bread

 

Meditation: Still on it daily, though now I'm doing 2 x15-20 min sessions (not timing them)... one in the morning one at night. In the morning I do yogic/qigong breathing work and meditation on compassion. In the evening I do more analytical meditation on emptiness. I've also started a meditation journal to keep a record of my practice and note the effects of various techniques.

 

Lotus Position/Movement: I've had a week off of stressing my back so I might go back to stretching and trying to get into lotus posture. One the one hand tho, the specific posture isn't as important to meditation as it sometimes appears. The important thing is to be stable and remove bodily distractions from the mind. But, I do find that I get more out of meditation when I'm in a lotus type position.

 

Nourishment: Already talked about that with shopping.

 

Creativity: Haven't done much here. I'm not going to be able to finish the beanie, unless that became the sole focus of the last week of this challenge. Maybe I should belt out 5000 words on that novel and finish up part one...?

 

Abode: I put together my shelf top herb garden...

 

I planted basil, parsley, oregano, chives, cilantro, mint, lemon mint, lemon balm, peppermint, and lavender. Lot's of mint and lavender because I read that cockroaches hate mint and lavender. As I've mentioned in the past, my building has them. The property managers spray for them, but from time to time they come back and out of practicing compassion I'm trying not to actively kill them... and part of that is cleaning, keeping my shit clean, and doing things that discourage them from hanging out in my kitchen. And though this sounds a little hippy-dippy I have to admit that not trying to kill every roach I see is less stressful for me as well and puts me in a better mindset. I've also been burning lavender incense in the kitchen, and I've been seeing fewer of them. Finally, I've bought live capture insect traps, so with the right bait I may be able to capture them and send them to roach heaven (the dumpster outside, I mean where would they rather be).

 

Knowledge: I keep reading and studying. I can chill out on this a bit too. It was also impressed on me today that I don't need to force myself to study too hard. Buddhist monks do a lot of intensive study, including just memorization, of Buddhist texts because their life goal is to preserve a tradition and teach it, and pass it on. These things are not necessary for lay practitioners to progress, let alone become enlightened. If you can get the concept of emptiness from reading a half-assed English translation and applying it to your life, you're good. Though, it's helpful and virtuous to study it in Tibetan if you can, it is not necessary for getting results. That said, still gonna study, but not get hung up on it.

 

Wisdom: Much wisdom for the day. Here's a picture of my shiny new butterlamp...

 

[Snarkyfishguts]

I like anything that is you being a little easier on yourself and taking good care of you 💜

[Stronkey Kong]

 

All is well. Not much going on.

 

I'm routinely meditating in the morning and evening.

Stretching is still on hold. I tried to get back into sitting in lotus over the weekend and it was better, but not totally well.

Though, stretching and doing qigong would still be helpful and worthwhile.

 

This is what I eat for lunch, with rice...

 

 

I had to pitch my most recent batch of yogurt tho. It must have gotten contaminated, and it was so acidic it was like licking a 9-volt battery at times. Gonna have to start over.

 

Still studying Tibetan daily. I pretty much have the 30 basic consonants memorized, and I even recognize them in text, and can pick out words sometimes. Yay. It feels like I'm five again.

Still reading Nagarjuna.

Still attending my classes.

 

Overall, I feel pretty good.

 

(and the scale has been regularly tipping below 280, so there's some progress there too.)

[Snarkyfishguts]

So much goodness! I love it!

[Stronkey Kong]

 

It's soda.... SODA...

 

SODA == GERD!

 

I've hardly had any symptoms lately. Not from bread, not from the battery-acid yogurt, not from seitan or cheese.

 

But today, it warmed up so I didn't feel like drinking coffee, so I drank lot's of diet soda, and now it's back.

 

Soda be damned.

 

Also, at what point did I stop calling it pop like a proper Northerner?

 

I'm so glad it's not coffee.

 

Now I need to sit down with my meditation journal and try to recall the line of logic I had the other night that got me some real progress on the emptiness of consciousness.

 

 

[sarakingdom]

39 minutes ago, Stronkey Kong said:

Also, at what point did I stop calling it pop like a proper Northerner?

 

I believe you have misspelled "Midwesterner".

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

7 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

 

I believe you have misspelled "Midwesterner".

Pssshhh. The proper nomenclature is to use "cokes" as a blanket term for carbonated soft-drinks.

[Stronkey Kong]

10 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

 

I believe you have misspelled "Midwesterner".

 

No. I was referring to the Northern Midwest. People here in Indianapolis refer to my accent as "Northern." Despite the fact that I've given up saying "pop" all the time and using soda more often in an effort to communicate more broadly -- cuz I'm so worldly and sophisticated -- I tend to slur rather than drawl, and my voice lacks the twang found in Southern Indiana and Kentucky.

 

The mistake you've made, typical of Northeasterners, is that you were part of this discussion in the first place...

 

3 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

Pssshhh. The proper nomenclature is to use "cokes" as a blanket term for carbonated soft-drinks.

 

Is Texas "What kind of coke would you like?" country, or are you making fun of the East Coast? I've always thought Coke was EC, soda is southern. Texas?

[sarakingdom]

2 minutes ago, Stronkey Kong said:

The mistake you've made, typical of Northeasterners, is that you were part of this discussion in the first place...

 

Sweetheart, anyone added to the country after 1830 is the one who gets the extra direction modifier. There are no Northerners in the Midwest, just Midwesterners with parkas and multiple snow shovels. But I believe there is partial credit on southernness and northernness based on your local civil war affiliation, if you feel strongly about this.

 

5 minutes ago, Stronkey Kong said:

Is Texas "What kind of coke would you like?" country, or are you making fun of the East Coast? I've always thought Coke was EC, soda is southern. Texas?

 

The other way around. Soda is the North, coke is the South. Both the North and the South are East Coast. I don't know what kind of geography they're teaching you in the junior 37 states if you don't know the blue stuff by Charleston and Savannah is the Atlantic Ocean.

 

23 minutes ago, Stronkey Kong said:

Texas?

 

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

Texas is the home of Dr. Pepper, but Dr. Pepper exists as a subset of the set that is "cokes."

[sarakingdom]

37 minutes ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

Texas is the home of Dr. Pepper, but Dr. Pepper exists as a subset of the set that is "cokes."

 

Technically true, but my counter-argument goes like this: Godzilla.

[Scaly Freak]

3 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

 

Technically true, but my counter-argument goes like this: Godzilla.

 

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

4 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

 

Technically true, but my counter-argument goes like this: Godzilla.

You make a strong point.

[Stronkey Kong]

12 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

 

Sweetheart, anyone added to the country after 1830 is the one who gets the extra direction modifier. There are no Northerners in the Midwest, just Midwesterners with parkas and multiple snow shovels. But I believe there is partial credit on southernness and northernness based on your local civil war affiliation, if you feel strongly about this.

 

 

The other way around. Soda is the North, coke is the South. Both the North and the South are East Coast. I don't know what kind of geography they're teaching you in the junior 37 states if you don't know the blue stuff by Charleston and Savannah is the Atlantic Ocean.

 

 

 

But honey... Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois were all added to the Union well before 1830, and it doesn't get that cold here. But all this belies the fact that each of these states has bands running East-West that represent different cultures. The Southern tips of these states were settled by Appalachian borderland settlers. Their middles by the Midland farmers. Their Northern ends, as well as the rest of the Great Lakes, by Yankees... much like New England. Check out American Nations by Colin Woodard. Our different cultures aren't divided neatly by state lines for sure.

 

Also, I don't know what sort of geographic or cartographic principles assert that East Texas, Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Mississippi are on the East Coast.

 

Now I stand corrected on the Soda vs. Pop vs. Coke issue...

 

 

But as you see, the Midwest is where it gets a little complicated. I come from that little area at the Southern tip of Lake Michigan, the Greater Chicago area... that's Pop country. I go North or South apparently and I'm in Soda country, or Coke country going a little East... though now living in Indianapolis I hear Soda more often than Coke for Pop generally.

 

<sigh> There needs to be more monsters drinking soda gifs.