The Movie Club: 80s Trek

[Harriet]

6 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

Agreed, and I thought that whole moment was actually well done. Spock knows everyone on the ship will die if the warp drive stays offline. Spock also knows that emotional humans will argue against ordering Scotty in there to repair it at the cost of his life. Lastly, Spock knows how to repair the warp drive.

 

Spock is well aware what he's going to do will kill him and he does it anyway. Whether he does it for the entire crew (the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one), or whether he does it to save his friend Jim is up for debate, but that he deliberately gives his own life to keep others alive is without question. The quiet and understated way he leaves the bridge to go about it is deliberate, because he does not have time to explain this logically. He just does it, and he seems at piece with dying in this way.

 

I am in full agreement with your interpretation.

 

6 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

And for the record, the farewell inside the warp core chamber and the funeral right after has me in tear every freaking time I watch this movie.

 

It doesn't matter if he does, it is still a tearful moment!

 

I didn't cry because first I thought it must be a funeral for the engine room kid who died from burns. Then I was like "when is Spock going to knock on the inside of the casket and say he's been in a vulcan radiation healing coma?" Then I was like "hmmmm the casket really is leaving the ship. What's happening?"

[Scaly Freak]

On 6/26/2021 at 12:05 PM, sarakingdom said:

She's too... pink. For a Vulcan, I mean. But yes. Yeah, these films do way, way better on the sexism weirdness front. They honestly do quite well, apart from underusing Uhura here, which is at least sexism by omission rather than commission. The Carol Marcus role was actually fairly well done.

 

I also thought that Saavik was unusually emotional at times, by Vulcan standards. She even sheds a tear at Spock's funeral.

 

While we were watching, Husband also pointed out that it could be considered a bold move to give the Reliant a black captain in 1982, which unfortunately probably is an accurate observation.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

2 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

I also thought that Saavik was unusually emotional at times, by Vulcan standards. She even sheds a tear at Spock's funeral.

 

While we were watching, Husband also pointed out that it could be considered a bold move to give the Reliant a black captain in 1982, which unfortunately probably is an accurate observation.

A discarded plot point was that Saavik was secretly half Romulan-half Vulcan. They were setting the audience up for that reveal.

[Scaly Freak]

2 minutes ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

A discarded plot point was that Saavik was secretly half Romulan-half Vulcan. They were setting the audience up for that reveal.

 

Leaving that in would have been... interesting.

[sarakingdom]

On 6/26/2021 at 5:22 PM, Scaly Freak said:

Spock is well aware what he's going to do will kill him and he does it anyway. Whether he does it for the entire crew (the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one), or whether he does it to save his friend Jim is up for debate, but that he deliberately gives his own life to keep others alive is without question. The quiet and understated way he leaves the bridge to go about it is deliberate, because he does not have time to explain this logically. He just does it, and he seems at peace with dying in this way.

 

And one thing I only caught this time around is that it sounded like Spock had never done the Kobayashi Maru test. They really set this up as his turn at that.

[sarakingdom]

On 6/26/2021 at 11:46 PM, Harriet said:

I thought it must be a funeral for the engine room kid

 

Scotty's nephew, in the deleted scenes.

 

On 6/27/2021 at 3:26 PM, Scaly Freak said:

I also thought that Saavik was unusually emotional at times, by Vulcan standards. She even sheds a tear at Spock's funeral.

 

ST3 spoilers:

Spoiler

I'm one of the few people who thinks Robin Curtis was a lot better. Sure, Kirstie Alley is more famous, and was a more 1980s sort of pretty, but Robin Curtis was actually better and more understated, which a Vulcan should be.

 

On 6/27/2021 at 3:26 PM, Scaly Freak said:

While we were watching, Husband also pointed out that it could be considered a bold move to give the Reliant a black captain in 1982, which unfortunately probably is an accurate observation.

 

Possibly true, though he dies, which is traditional for black characters in white movies back then. There started being more minority representation in the 70s, so it's possible someone would have a black captain or police chief of something. But there's really good odds the token black character in films dies, especially to save a white one, which... he did. Husband might be right, though. I don't remember 1982 that well.

 

On 6/27/2021 at 5:45 PM, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

A discarded plot point was that Saavik was secretly half Romulan-half Vulcan. They were setting the audience up for that reveal.

 

ST3 and 4 spoilers:

Spoiler

They'd also planned to leave her behind on Vulcan because she was pregnant with Spock's kid, and I'm just as glad they left that one out. That would have annoyed me a lot.

 

[sarakingdom]

I will be running late this week, because my rewatch partner can't watch till tomorrow. But I'm totally here for Search for Spock discussion.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

11 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

I will be running late this week, because my rewatch partner can't watch till tomorrow. But I'm totally here for Search for Spock discussion.

"That's what you get for missing staff meetings."

[sarakingdom]

12 minutes ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

"That's what you get for missing staff meetings."

 

Get in the closet, Tank.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

27 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

 

Get in the closet, Tank.

I'm glad you're on our side.

[Scaly Freak]

Last week I was pleased to discover all these movies are on Hulu, so I am streaming Search for Spock there today. The auto-play feature appears confused, as it's currently telling me that what will play immediately after Star Trek 3 is a Star Trek movie we all know doesn't exist. I'm a little concerned about Hulu's AI now.

[sarakingdom]

53 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

The auto-play feature appears confused, as it's currently telling me that what will play immediately after Star Trek 3 is a Star Trek movie we all know doesn't exist. I'm a little concerned about Hulu's AI now.

 

It's a typo. Even AIs know IV comes after III. Someone just entered the number wrong.

[Scaly Freak]

Spoiler

 

"We're under attack! Stand by for evasive action!"

 

I guess now we know why Grissom gets to be taxi service for science teams, instead of going on combat missions.... 

 

 

[sarakingdom]

1 hour ago, Scaly Freak said:

"We're under attack! Stand by for evasive action!"

 

I guess now we know why Grissom gets to be taxi service for science teams, instead of going on combat missions.... 

 

I... can't fault that logic. By which I mean, I could, but you'll have to stand by for disputation services.

 

(Psst, you're 24 hours past the spoiler lifting. You are now allowed to reveal even major plot details, like them finding Spock in the exact place they though they left him: under the sofa.)

[Scaly Freak]

8 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

 

(Psst, you're 24 hours past the spoiler lifting. You are now allowed to reveal even major plot details, like them finding Spock in the exact place they though they left him: under the sofa.)

 

I did warn everyone that I am overly cautious and paranoid about spoilers.  

 

I am not a fan of how they spelled out the theme of the movie and contrast to Spock's death by giving Kirk a line where he says, "the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many". I dislike when a movie assumes I'm not smart enough to notice these things on my own.

[sarakingdom]

13 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

I am not a fan of how they spelled out the theme of the movie and contrast to Spock's death by giving Kirk a line where he says, "the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many". I dislike when a movie assumes I'm not smart enough to notice these things on my own.

 

To me, that reads more like having a slow argument about logic being stupid than like spelling out the theme. Foreshadowing the Kobayashi Maru and Moby Dick, that's spelling out the theme. Contradicting Spock and criticising him for thinking like a Vulcan is just Thursday night on the Enterprise. It's practically a team sport.

 

(While we're on the subject of Jim Kirk being a raging human supremacist, in what world is it a compliment to give a eulogy for his "I know he's human, but nobody's perfect" friend by saying his was the most human soul he'd ever known? Let's hope no one ever sends Spock the VHS of his own funeral.)

 

I'm not even certain that line really holds up as a theme, because Kirk is making a faulty analogy to what Spock did. Spock gave a life to save many lives, trading like for like. His friends gave up careers to save a life (or afterlife). If weighing the needs of the many and the one included things that are relative inconveniences next to the thing they supposedly outweigh, then it's never acceptable to do anything for an individual. I mean, sure, we could take you to hospital and set your leg, but think of  the inconvenience to the ambulance driver we'd have to call out, the anesthetist, the doctor, two nurses... no, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one, sorry, kid. So I'm sure there is a theme about sacrificing for friendship and whatever, but that line is just Kirk being a culturally insensitive jerk trying to win an argument with a dude who barely remembered his own name.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

So does anyone know if Uhura ever let Mr. Adventure out of the closet?

[Scaly Freak]

4 minutes ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

So does anyone know if Uhura ever let Mr. Adventure out of the closet?

 

Or did he come out of it on his own?

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

My favorite line from the movie is probably, "That green blooded sonuvabitch. It's his revenge for all those arguments he lost."

[sarakingdom]

56 minutes ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

So does anyone know if Uhura ever let Mr. Adventure out of the closet?

 

Honestly, it's probably a kindness to him to let Starfleet security do it. It saves him from awkward, career-damaging questions like  "so why didn't you take her into custody before she escaped?"

[sarakingdom]

51 minutes ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

My favorite line from the movie is probably, "That green blooded sonuvabitch. It's his revenge for all those arguments he lost."

 

McCoy gets all the best lines in that film. Every single one. I'm also partial to "Hell of a time to ask," and, "What you had to do, turn death into a fighting chance to live," and, of course, one of the best entire scenes in the film, "To expect one to order poison in a bar is not logical" and "How can you get a permit to do a damned illegal thing?"

 

Honestly, McCoy completely carries that movie in Spock's absence.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

20 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

 

McCoy gets all the best lines in that film. Every single one. I'm also partial to "Hell of a time to ask," and, "What you had to do, turn death into a fighting chance to live," and, of course, one of the best entire scenes in the film, "To expect one to order poison in a bar is not logical" and "How can you get a permit to do a damned illegal thing?"

 

Honestly, McCoy completely carries that movie in Spock's absence.

It probably helps that DeForest Kelly is every bit the beautiful human being Leonard Nimoy is.

[sarakingdom]

Just now, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

It probably helps that DeForest Kelly is every bit the beautiful human being Leonard Nimoy is.

 

It certainly can't hurt. I'm not sure it's why they're so good at what they do, but it cannot hurt.

 

(It does, I think, assist in the sense that being generous about helping the people around you shine makes everyone look better, including you, while being selfish about the spotlight tends to highlight your flaws without enough going on around you to hide them. So in that sense, I suspect the kindest actors often do get back what they put out. They can make each other look a lot better.)

 

I really could watch an endless amount of Kelley and Nimoy. It's a shame about that third wheel spoiling things.

 

[Scaly Freak]

8 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

(It does, I think, assist in the sense that being generous about helping the people around you shine makes everyone look better, including you, while being selfish about the spotlight tends to highlight your flaws without enough going on around you to hide them. So in that sense, I suspect the kindest actors often do get back what they put out. They can make each other look a lot better.)

 

That actually wouldn't surprise me at all. I did enough stage acting in school plays to know it's a team sport, and the better the cast is as working together, the better the final production becomes.

[sarakingdom]

18 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

That actually wouldn't surprise me at all. I did enough stage acting in school plays to know it's a team sport, and the better the cast is as working together, the better the final production becomes.

 

I think there are times actors can rise above conflict with other actors in performance (early Mulgrew and Ryan were at each other's throats, apparently, but you can't tell in the performances; they're both quite good), and actors who are super kind people but it's not enough to elevate their performance much (Keanu...). But on the whole, yes, I think there's a collaborative benefit there. And I think it lends itself well to the performance styles and priorities of those old school characters actors; they're mostly there to make the ensemble look good.

 

And I really suspect Shatner's acting style would not be quite so risible today if he hadn't resented the camera being on Takei or Koenig instead of on his reactions to their lines. Having the camera observe the behavior of others might have filled in those... dramatic... pauses... with more information about what was going on around him. Not to mention just making the whole thing feel less stilted and scripted, and more natural. He'd have genuinely looked better if he'd been better at sharing. Shortchanging everyone else compromised how good he was able to look. The smaller you make the pond, the less impressive it is to be the biggest fish in it.