Scalyfreak socializes and tries to sleep

[sarakingdom]

3 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

I actually deeply dislike sleeping the day away on weekends

 

What is your current sleep deficit, and how many hours did you sleep Friday night? Which is to say, are you burning the candle at more than one end?

 

3 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

I don’t mind the waking up, but I hate being woken up, be it by another person or alarm. 😛

 

Same. I never forgive being woken up. Even if I needed to be.

[Scaly Freak]

1 minute ago, sarakingdom said:

What is your current sleep deficit, and how many hours did you sleep Friday night? Which is to say, are you burning the candle at more than one end?

 

Sleep deficit being...?

 

I have a record of hours per night in my Fitbit app, but only glance at that number occasionally. I pay more attention to the sleep quality percentage, especially after spending a couple of weeks confirming that number tends to line up with whether I feel like I slept well or not. the term deficit implies that there is an ideal or goal number of hours per night that I should get, which doesn't make sense at all.

 

And this strong aversion to being woken up still makes no sense to me. Sure, if it is done in an unpleasant or harsh way it's not very fun. But waking up slowly, wrapped in a pair of warm arms, snuggled up against bare skin, with an equally warm face nuzzling my neck while mumbling to me that it's time to wake up now, because the coffee is ready, is very forgivable...  

[Scaly Freak]

YEEEESSSS!!! this touches every single erogenous nerd zone in my brain. This makes me happy! 😍 

 

 

 

[sarakingdom]

58 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

I pay more attention to the sleep quality percentage, especially after spending a couple of weeks confirming that number tends to line up with whether I feel like I slept well or not. the term deficit implies that there is an ideal or goal number of hours per night that I should get, which doesn't make sense at all.

 

I'm gonna suggest this might be your sleep aversion talking, and that's a mental bias to watch out for. Lots of people say they don't need the recommended 7-9 hours per night, and I was one of them, but my understanding is that the science suggests this is not true, and the consensus very strongly backs 7-9 hours for healthy adults. (Or true so vanishingly rarely it can be explained by rare genetic mutations that run in families.) Rather, they've trained themselves not to feel tired on what they get, supported by an industrial labor culture that favors shorter sleep. I'm well-trained not to feel tired on six hours a night. But when I stopped trusting that and started benchmarking myself on the scientific consensus, it became clear it's habituation, not my real needs. I behave tiredly on six hours a night; my behavior changes on eight hours. I'm having to retrain myself to actually feel that.

 

So basically, yes, I suspect sleep needs are far less individual than we have as a culture been treating them, and there really is an ideal goal for healthy adults. (It changes when you're sick, obviously.) What's more individual is how well we acclimate to and cope with the deprivation. This seems to be an area where post-industrial humans have external pressures to not want sleep, and override the signals and wants of their pre-industrial bodies.

 

Which was my point for asking, because I'm aware you're wrestling with some resentment of your body needing rest: resentment of naps when you're tired after canvassing, low sleeping hours during the week that you're trying to fix, and more sleeping hours on the weekend that you seem to resent doing even after you've slept through actual alarms, which has to be one of the strongest "dear god, let me rest, I will ignore any danger in this jungle for more sleep" signs the body can give. Being glad you hadn't been allowed to ignore a signal of deep need on top of all that other stuff going on really set off my "oh shit, I think there's a real psychological issue here about sleep, I wonder how bad this is actually getting" warning bells.

[Scaly Freak]

Sleeping for 10+ hours when the body and brain are used to less than half of that creates a hangover effect that is very unpleasant. I don't want that every weekend. It gets in the way of doing things I need to do (laundry, weeding, etc) and things I want to do, like relaxing and emotionally recharging for the next work week. (Though that is also a need, just a different one.)

 

There is also the side-effect that if I sleep until noon or later today, I'll eventually mange to fall asleep by 2:0 AM or later. Then I sleep until noon or later on tomorrow, and once again fall asleep after 2:00 AM that night. And then I have to get up at 6:00 AM on Monday, because work, which lands me at 3-4 hours of sleep between Sunday and Monday, and my week is off to a shitty start and goes downhill from there.

 

So I'm glad Husband woke me up because it means he's trying to help me break this pattern, and because it will make next week easier. And because meeting immediate short-term needs right now is less important than building a sustainable long-term habit.

 

As for tracking a sleep deficit, whether there is a universal number or not, a constant reminder of how far I have left to go before I meet my goal has never been helpful to me, and I have no reason to believe it will help in this instance either.  

[Harriet]

4 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

YEEEESSSS!!! this touches every single erogenous nerd zone in my brain. This makes me happy! 😍

 

I never watched the original, but this looks like great fun.

[sarakingdom]

4 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

Sleeping for 10+ hours when the body and brain are used to less than half of that creates a hangover effect that is very unpleasant. I don't want that every weekend.

 

Yeah, it's definitely not a great pattern.  Trying to have seven-tenths of that every night is much better.

 

4 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

As for tracking a sleep deficit, whether there is a universal number or not, a constant reminder of how far I have left to go before I meet my goal has never been helpful to me, and I have no reason to believe it will help in this instance either.  

 

Whatever works! I get the lack of usefulness in a nagging number. For me, that's very occasionally useful in the way that weightlifting stats are useful, measuring a change in performance. But mostly I use it to reality check myself when I need to give myself permission to rest during the day, or not beat myself up because I did. Like, oh, there's actually a reason I did that, it wasn't random or self-sabotage.

 

1 hour ago, Harriet said:

I never watched the original, but this looks like great fun.

 

That is like 98% accurate to the original. Except I don't think I spotted Orko?

[Jean]

2 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

Sleeping for 10+ hours when the body and brain are used to less than half of that creates a hangover effect that is very unpleasant.

I tend to attribute that to my body realizing it can sleep and going full "hey, you know what? I'll make the most of it, I don't know how long it'll last, let's get ALL the sleep!" Kind of like it can do with fat if we starve it through diet and it finally gets enough food. It is a sign of a lack of sleep to me, which effects can be light (ranging on the unperceivable, though that may be because I've trained myself for it) to life altering (very high levels of tiredness happen to me more and more, these days, and they take all energy out of me, and all efficiency (I make easily avoidable mistakes)). I probably have poor sleep quality, though, so focusing on that probably helps quite a bit.

 

The warning, here, is that it fell on me all of a sudden. I used to be fine living on my 3-5h nights and a bit more on the week-end. Now, my body seems to have decided to tell me "stop".

 

2 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

And because meeting immediate short-term needs right now is less important than building a sustainable long-term habit.

Also that. Not disrupting the full circle by piling up one night and a half together such as to feel rested in the evening and tired in the afternoon after that is a big achievement. You seem to be good at it, congrats!

 

 

3 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

Lots of people say they don't need the recommended 7-9 hours per night, and I was one of them, but my understanding is that the science suggests this is not true, and the consensus very strongly backs 7-9 hours for healthy adults.

The last study I've found on the topic (for which, unfortunately, only the abstract seems to be available without subscription)  indicates that the range would be more 6-8 with 7 as an optimum. It has its flaws (self-reporting is a very flawed way of gathering data) but is pretty clear in its results. Less sleep seems to be less harmful than too much, though both are significantly worse than staying in the 6-8 range.

[sarakingdom]

44 minutes ago, Jean said:

Less sleep seems to be less harmful than too much, though both are significantly worse than staying in the 6-8 range.

 

I would be careful of correlation versus causation on that one. The actual relationship seems to be that people who sleep more than 8-9 hours are sleeping more because they're sick, not sick because they're sleeping more. In the graph I saw, the mortality risk rises fairly steeply on both sides of 7-9, but the reasons are different. On one side, sleep time appears to be the cause, and on the other it appears to be the side effect.

[Scaly Freak]

On 7/4/2021 at 12:17 AM, sarakingdom said:

That is like 98% accurate to the original. Except I don't think I spotted Orko?

 

Orko was definitely in there. Skip to 1:04.

[Scaly Freak]

@Jupiter, it is good to see you again.

 

[sarakingdom]

41 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

Orko was definitely in there. Skip to 1:04.

 

I take it back. It is 98.5% like the original.

 

What I don't understand is, if you don't want Skeletor to invade your castle, why build it as a giant model of his face? Surely something in a more floral motif would be safer from Skeletor attacks.

[Jupiter]

45 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

@Jupiter, it is good to see you again.

 

 

Hi! Good to see you again, too!  

 

[Alanna]

I have not been a very good sleep accountability buddy, sorry! I'm glad the routine building/evening relaxation seems to be going well so far  

 

On 6/29/2021 at 10:28 PM, Scaly Freak said:

 

"Dragonblood", by Lindsay Buroker.  

 

 

 

How do you like her work? Her "Mist and Magic" novel is sitting in my to-read pile, and I think I have access to a lot of her books via Kindle Unlimited too. I'm in a bit of a reading slump and could use a good series to break it!

[Scaly Freak]

6 hours ago, Alanna said:

 

How do you like her work? Her "Mist and Magic" novel is sitting in my to-read pile, and I think I have access to a lot of her books via Kindle Unlimited too. I'm in a bit of a reading slump and could use a good series to break it!

 

"Mist and Magic" is one I haven't read yet. I like the Emperor's Edge books that are steampunk and politics and rebellion, and have a hilarious cast of characters. I liked them so much the main reason I picked up  Dragonblood was because it's the same author, and I think I may like this series better. Which makes sense, since it has steampunk fighter pilots and a sarcastic talking sword, and that's just the first half of the first book.

 

If you like steampunk/fantasy and action adventures, you could do a lot worse than Lindsay Buroker's books.

[Scaly Freak]

Challenge update, bed time progress:

 

The evening routine has been inconsistent, but on evenings when I am successful with it, it works and I sleep well, which is encouraging. I have done enough testing and tweaking that I can confidently adjust the draft as well. For example, after doing the rest of the routine I find I don't need the Insight Timer meditations to help me slow down and calm my mind, because the routine already did that.

 

I have discovered that when I skip or forget to set up the coffee pot in the evening and I have to do it in the morning instead, that uses up nearly 20 minutes of the morning. If I remember to do that in the evening I can use those 20 minutes to go for a walk with Happy Sidekick before it becomes so hot it is dangerous for her to be outside (I'm in the west coast heat wave area and it SUCKS). this is a very strong incentive to remember the coffee pot part of the routine, and once I start with that, the rest often follows.

 

Lastly, I am learning how to put away books captivating and exciting books even though I desperately want to know what is happening next. I'm a slow learner in this area, but I am slowly learning.  

 

Updated evening routine draft:

• Prepare the coffee pot for the next morning and set the brew timer for 15 minutes before alarm is set to go off
• Set out clothes for next day (on weekends too!)
• Brush teeth and apply sleep/night moisturizer and massage the jaw tension for a little while
• Start the fan (for white noise) and the humidifier in the bedroom
• Go to bed and read for a while
• Get all cozy and comfortable in bed and actively relax. 
• Hopefully sleep....

 

Challenge update, socializing:

 

Today was another neighborhood canvassing. I mentioned after the last canvas, that I needed to change my hydration strategy, and have been putting some thought into that. My thinking made me realized that I had completely overlooked my body's perspective on canvas activities.

 

My body doesn't know what a canvas is or why I am doing it, and it doesn't care. All my body knows and cares about is that we are walking in the hot summer sun for about three hours without taking a break, and it doesn't matter what my mind wants to call it, from my body's perspective this is a hard workout. And for hard workouts, the body very much wants to hydrate before, during, and after, please and thank you. So I drank water during the morning before leaving for canvas, and I carried my regular big water bottle while canvassing, and I also stashed a second bottle in the car (in the shade underneath a seat) for rehydrating after canvassing.

 

My body likes these proactive hydration tactics and is showing appreciation by giving me more energy and less headaches than we had after the last canvass, so we're definitely repeating this approach for future canvassing events.

 

Also, palazzo pants are better than shorts for heatwave canvassing.

[KB Girl]

That's two nice bits of progress  

 

17 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

but on evenings when I am successful with it, it works and I sleep well, which is encouraging.

Yes! Yay!  

 

17 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

Lastly, I am learning how to put away books captivating and exciting books even though I desperately want to know what is happening next. I'm a slow learner in this area, but I am slowly learning.  

 

You must share your secrets? I've taken to only rereading things so I already know what's happening next.. 

[Scaly Freak]

4 hours ago, KB Girl said:

You must share your secrets? I've taken to only rereading things so I already know what's happening next.. 

 

It's a little bit like the mindset that makes us eat too much ice cream or candy when we have access to it. I don't need to eat all the ice cream, because it will still be there tomorrow. And I don't need to keep reading right this moment, because the book is not going anywhere and I can keep reading it tomorrow.  

[KB Girl]

11 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

It's a little bit like the mindset that makes us eat too much ice cream or candy when we have access to it. I don't need to eat all the ice cream, because it will still be there tomorrow. And I don't need to keep reading right this moment, because the book is not going anywhere and I can keep reading it tomorrow.  

That makes an annoying amount of sense.. thanks! (says the polite and rational part of my brain, the other part is protesting vehemently)

[Scaly Freak]

2 hours ago, KB Girl said:

That makes an annoying amount of sense.. thanks! (says the polite and rational part of my brain, the other part is protesting vehemently)

 

...and that, right there, is my big dilemma.  

[Mistr]

6 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

...and that, right there, is my big dilemma.  

 

Yep, mine too. The rational part of my brain rarely wins this fight.

 

Nice work on the evening prep. I am afraid that I need to set my evening timer earlier. Too often there is One More Thing That Must Be Done. We shall see if I can get better about that.

[Mad Hatter]

22 hours ago, Mistr said:

The rational part of my brain rarely wins this fight.

Especially at the end of the day!

[Harriet]

On 7/11/2021 at 5:20 AM, Scaly Freak said:

The evening routine has been inconsistent, but on evenings when I am successful with it, it works and I sleep well, which is encouraging.

 

Exellent data to have.

 

On 7/11/2021 at 5:20 AM, Scaly Freak said:

I have discovered that when I skip or forget to set up the coffee pot in the evening and I have to do it in the morning instead, that uses up nearly 20 minutes of the morning. If I remember to do that in the evening I can use those 20 minutes to go for a walk with Happy Sidekick before it becomes so hot it is dangerous for her to be outside (I'm in the west coast heat wave area and it SUCKS). this is a very strong incentive to remember the coffee pot part of the routine, and once I start with that, the rest often follows.

 

More excellent data!

 

On 7/11/2021 at 5:20 AM, Scaly Freak said:

My body doesn't know what a canvas is or why I am doing it, and it doesn't care. All my body knows and cares about is that we are walking in the hot summer sun for about three hours without taking a break, and it doesn't matter what my mind wants to call it, from my body's perspective this is a hard workout. And for hard workouts, the body very much wants to hydrate before, during, and after, please and thank you. So I drank water during the morning before leaving for canvas, and I carried my regular big water bottle while canvassing, and I also stashed a second bottle in the car (in the shade underneath a seat) for rehydrating after canvassing.

 

My body likes these proactive hydration tactics and is showing appreciation by giving me more energy and less headaches than we had after the last canvass, so we're definitely repeating this approach for future canvassing events.

 

Also, palazzo pants are better than shorts for heatwave canvassing.

Further excellent science! Hmmm, palazzo pants look comfy and almost like they could be mistaken for glamorous long skirts.

[sarakingdom]

9 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Especially at the end of the day!

 

This is the worst bit, being rational and willpowery when tired and running out of steam.

[Scaly Freak]

18 hours ago, Harriet said:

Further excellent science! Hmmm, palazzo pants look comfy and almost like they could be mistaken for glamorous long skirts.

 

Palazzo pants are fantastically comfortable and I have no idea how i lived my life for so long without them. 

 

I want to take this opportunity to give a big thanks to @Mistr for introducing me to this awesome piece of clothing and making my summer life easier.