Jump to content

The Guildhall of Champions: General Chat


Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

Things vary from product to product whether there is pumpkin puree in "Pumpkin Spice" things. The reason I jumped on the pumpkin spice bandwagon all those years ago is I really love pumpkin pie, so I prefer PS products with actual pumpkin in them.

Same here. I'm not sure I've actually I've ever found a product that contains pumpkin puree. Which iswhy right now, I'm eating the real thing-pumpkin bread topped with apple butter.

  • Like 3

Wisdom 22.5   Dexterity 13   Charisma 15   Strength 21  Constitution-13

"If more of us valued food and cheer and song, above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world" J.R.R.Tolkien

Link to comment

I think if something doesn't have actual pumpkin in it, it shouldn't be called pumpkin spice.  You could call it autumn spice or harvest spice instead.  My beautiful wife agrees.

  • Like 4

  Level 45 Quasi-Human Ranger     

"Forget failure.  Forget mistakes.  Forget everything except what you're going to do NOW, and DO IT." - Lou Ferrigno

"Foxes Never Quit!"  -  Leicester City FC

KBO. - Churchill

Link to comment
11 hours ago, Cheetah said:

I think if something doesn't have actual pumpkin in it, it shouldn't be called pumpkin spice.  You could call it autumn spice or harvest spice instead.  My beautiful wife agrees.

 

If girl scout cookies don't have girl scouts in them, they shouldn't be called girl scout cookies.

 

The Addams Family GIF

 

(I'm... suddenly having real problems with the idea that both those kids are adults now.)

  • Like 1
  • Haha 5
  • Wow 1

I felt like I could run forever, like I could smell the wind and feel the grass under my feet, and just run forever.

Current Challenge: #24 - Mrs. Cosmopolite Challenge

Past: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6,  #7#8, #9#10, #11a & #11b, #12, #13, #14, #15, #16, #17, #18, #19, #20, #21, #22, #23

Link to comment
1 hour ago, sarakingdom said:

 

If girl scout cookies don't have girl scouts in them, they shouldn't be called girl scout cookies.

 

The Addams Family GIF

 

(I'm... suddenly having real problems with the idea that both those kids are adults now.)

On paper, we are adults too.

 

  • Like 2
  • Confused 1
  • Wow 1

Current Challenge

"By the Most-Righteous-and-Blessed Beard of Sir Tanktimus the Encourager!" - Jarl Rurik Harrgath

Link to comment
12 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

On paper, we are adults too.

 

big trouble in little china fox GIF

  • Like 5
  • Haha 1

  Level 45 Quasi-Human Ranger     

"Forget failure.  Forget mistakes.  Forget everything except what you're going to do NOW, and DO IT." - Lou Ferrigno

"Foxes Never Quit!"  -  Leicester City FC

KBO. - Churchill

Link to comment
6 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

3kuI5VJ.jpeg

 

I'm loving all of this bear nomenclature discussion.  The only bears we have are Koala Bears (not real bears) and Drop Bears (not real at all).

 

As a hiker I'd be very hesitent hiking in the US due to the bears - seem a whole lot scarier than snakes.  Bears will chase you, snakes you just have to try and not scare.

  • Like 3

Skywalker

 

Progress woot: Skywalker's success

Character Profile:  Skywalker

Blog:  Just Get Moving

Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it!

Link to comment
On 9/18/2021 at 6:27 AM, sarakingdom said:

(I'm... suddenly having real problems with the idea that both those kids are adults now.)

 

Speaking of kids in 90s movies who grew up, I don't know who's watching Daniel Radcliffe's current TV series, Miracle Workers. It's in its third season right now, and he's playing a minister on the Oregon Trail.

 

In one episode, he offers this exploration of how Christian theology and Manifest Destiny entwined in the American West:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Tank, your job is a lot more demanding than I'd realized.

 

3a01b2fd050e560fdbb27dc09fda3ad40e31b1dc

  • Haha 3

I felt like I could run forever, like I could smell the wind and feel the grass under my feet, and just run forever.

Current Challenge: #24 - Mrs. Cosmopolite Challenge

Past: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6,  #7#8, #9#10, #11a & #11b, #12, #13, #14, #15, #16, #17, #18, #19, #20, #21, #22, #23

Link to comment
On 9/18/2021 at 1:48 AM, Cheetah said:

I think if something doesn't have actual pumpkin in it, it shouldn't be called pumpkin spice. 

 

On 9/17/2021 at 9:38 PM, Elastigirl said:

I'm eating the real thing-pumpkin bread topped with apple butter.

 

Pumpkin bread with apple butter sounds delicious. But as with pumpkin spice -- where's the butter in the apple butter?

  • Wow 1
Link to comment
38 minutes ago, Tobbe said:

 

 

Pumpkin bread with apple butter sounds delicious. But as with pumpkin spice -- where's the butter in the apple butter?

😃I've thought about this too. Apparently, it's named that because it's spread like butter, and the consistency is like butter. But I don't think it's really thicker than most jams, so that never makes sense to me.

  • Like 1

Wisdom 22.5   Dexterity 13   Charisma 15   Strength 21  Constitution-13

"If more of us valued food and cheer and song, above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world" J.R.R.Tolkien

Link to comment
4 hours ago, Elastigirl said:

😃I've thought about this too. Apparently, it's named that because it's spread like butter, and the consistency is like butter. But I don't think it's really thicker than most jams, so that never makes sense to me.

 

We also have chili powder which is for chili and curry powder which is for curry, as well as Italian seasoning for Italian food, steak seasoning for steak, and Cajun seasoning for Cajun food (not to mention barbecue rub for barbecue and jerk rub for jerk chicken), so I'm unconvinced of the problem of pumpkin spice for pumpkin-based desserts. It's a common linguistic construction that only seems to bother people when it comes to the dreaded pumpkin spice latte.

 

There is a lot of popular hate for pumpkin spice, both edibly and linguistically, but there's a real double standard about it that looks like part of the trend where society learns a special sort of hate for the things teenage girls like, or "once teenage girls start liking something, it's over". Starbucks still puts cinnamon shakers out next to sugar and cream, so the issue is not that people don't love cinnamon or cinnamon blends in coffee, it's that they hate hearing young women order it. Plenty of other spice blends are named for the thing they're intended to be used for rather than the things they contain, but the only one that demonstrates how vapid people are is the one young women love.

 

So the lesson is, make apple butter popular with teenage girls rather than grizzled old-timey grandpas, and people will start complaining it has no butter in it, too.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

I felt like I could run forever, like I could smell the wind and feel the grass under my feet, and just run forever.

Current Challenge: #24 - Mrs. Cosmopolite Challenge

Past: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6,  #7#8, #9#10, #11a & #11b, #12, #13, #14, #15, #16, #17, #18, #19, #20, #21, #22, #23

Link to comment
19 hours ago, Skywalker said:

I'm loving all of this bear nomenclature discussion.  The only bears we have are Koala Bears (not real bears) and Drop Bears (not real at all).

 

By comparison, panda bears are real bears, and the reason they're so low energy and eat bamboo all the damn day is that they still have a bear's digestive system. Which is to say, they're carnivores trying to survive on a vegetarian diet, and it doesn't quite work in terms of getting enough nutrients.

 

So look out for the panda uprising, is I guess the lesson here. The really smart ones might give up vegetarianism.

  • Like 3

I felt like I could run forever, like I could smell the wind and feel the grass under my feet, and just run forever.

Current Challenge: #24 - Mrs. Cosmopolite Challenge

Past: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6,  #7#8, #9#10, #11a & #11b, #12, #13, #14, #15, #16, #17, #18, #19, #20, #21, #22, #23

Link to comment
5 hours ago, zeroh13 said:

We also have peanut butter, almond butter, and maple butter.

 

I knew someone was going to bring up PB and nut butters. But at least they all contain a bunch of fat just like actual butter. 

And maple butter? Never heard of it! But now I'm intrigued. What do you use it for? What do you put it on?

 

3 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

We also have chili powder which is for chili [...] as well as Italian seasoning for Italian food

 

I agree with the rest of the spice mixes on your list, but these two actually does contain what's on their label. You do have dried ground chili fruits in chili powder and Italian herbs in Italian seasoning.

 

Thanks for opening my eyes to the whole "We hate what teenage girls like" idea. Hadn't heard about that one before!

 

3 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

The really smart ones might give up vegetarianism.

 

Take that out of context and you'll upset a lot of people!😅 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
4 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

 

By comparison, panda bears are real bears, and the reason they're so low energy and eat bamboo all the damn day is that they still have a bear's digestive system. Which is to say, they're carnivores trying to survive on a vegetarian diet, and it doesn't quite work in terms of getting enough nutrients.

 

I can relate. Am I a bear? Can I become a bear? Can I have some more pfeffersalami? Yes, I can.

  • Like 2

Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the artist

Link to comment
9 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

There is a lot of popular hate for pumpkin spice, both edibly and linguistically, but there's a real double standard about it that looks like part of the trend where society learns a special sort of hate for the things teenage girls like, or "once teenage girls start liking something, it's over".

I just read a little analysis on the hate for romance novels on FB somewhere, which made me think about them in a whole different way, similar to this issue.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/parasolprotectorate/permalink/4625842697428789/

  • Like 1
Link to comment
On 9/15/2021 at 9:22 PM, sarakingdom said:

 

BEARS ARE FRIENDS, HAPPIENUMBER

 

...just gonna leave this here.

 

 

  • Like 1

"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it." -Henry Ford

"The older I get, the more I understand that the only way to say valuable things is to lose your fear of being correct." -Malcolm Gladwell

Link to comment
8 hours ago, Tobbe said:

I agree with the rest of the spice mixes on your list, but these two actually does contain what's on their label. You do have dried ground chili fruits in chili powder and Italian herbs in Italian seasoning.

 

A lot of the time, chili powder just has paprika in it. Americans of the chili powder generation are heat-phobes, so it's often "heat added separately". Sometimes some cayenne, so arguably a "chili pepper". But the term is really imprecise. Is it all capiscums? Just the hot ones? There's no standardised definition in English. It can be successfully argued that it contains chilis by at least one of the available definitions, yes.

 

But I'm gonna counter thusly: cultures that don't have assimilated Tex-Mex food often fail to realise that "chili powder" is a low-heat garlic/cumin/oregano/capiscum-of-heat-choice blend, and replace it in recipes with cayenne powder, and it's a culinary disaster. They don't have the cultural knowledge that "a common blend for making a dish called chili" is the definition of "chili" being used in "chili powder" and not "powdered chili peppers", and that it's two different uses of the word. So it's actually very important to know that the name means "for the dish called chili", and chili-the-dish is not interchangeable with chili-the-pepper in terms of meaning in terms of understanding what it is, so I'd argue that the spice blend is definitely not named for the pepper, but for the dish. The forness is essential.

 

And my argument on "Italian herbs" is that that's completely identical to saying "Italian seasoning", a common blend of herbs used for Italian food. The herbs themselves aren't Italian in that they stop growing at the border or being culinarily crucial at the Italian border. There's nothing inherently Italian about oregano, it's common all over the Mediterranean. Arguably it's more identified with Greece than Italy, but it's equally common all over the Middle East. (And culinarily, just a crucial to Mexican cooking.) Sage and mint are just as Mediterranean and Italian in origin as basil or oregano - they're also Mediterranean hillside plants from the same regions - but they're not classified as an "Italian  herb" because we don't use them for making "Italian food". So saying Italian seasoning contains Italian herbs is like saying barbecue dry rub contains a barbecue spice mix. It's rephrasing the same thing, without actually identifying anything in it by any metric except the dishes we tend to put it in.

 

8 hours ago, Tobbe said:

Thanks for opening my eyes to the whole "We hate what teenage girls like" idea. Hadn't heard about that one before!

 

It was super eye-opening when I first encountered it, too! There's a big cultural double standard on wish fulfilment pandering to boys and wish fulfilment pandering to girls, and I'd assimilated so much of it. Whether it's boy bands versus hair metal bands, chick lit versus soldier of fortune action thrillers, rom-coms versus Adam Sandler comedies, we treat low culture seriously or dismissively largely along gendered lines. We might not, say, enjoy Adam Sandler comedies any more than rom-coms, but one will get reviewed seriously as a good time for those who are into that thing with a certain set of objective merits and get the "not my thing, but I've heard it's pretty good" treatment, while the other gets a lot more eye-rolling and "it's fine, if you have to be dragged to one".

 

And once you start seeing that double standard, it's just everywhere you look. The intense hatred for vocal fry. (The first comment I saw on a YouTube example I just looked for was "Oh, that's what it's called! I've always called it twat growl," in case you were wondering how fundamentally rooted in sexism that cultural dislike actually is.)  Why people mock Tumblr posts (and in the older days, LiveJournal posts) as a genre and not Reddit posts as a genre. Pumpkin spice lattes. Girls having to prove they're "real fans". (And, come to that, fanfic versus arranging lists of most popular episode rankings as a fandom expression.) The Mary Sue self-insert hate versus the far more accepted Luke Skywalker self-insert acceptance. Culturally, we learn to despise the ways young women express themselves and what they love, because the worst thing you can be is like a young woman, and it has to be rejected harder.

 

And this:

 

2 hours ago, sylph said:

I just read a little analysis on the hate for romance novels on FB somewhere, which made me think about them in a whole different way, similar to this issue.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/parasolprotectorate/permalink/4625842697428789/

 

Same. Same phenomenon, and me too. I thought it was just good taste, until the double standard on formulaic writing-quality-second male wish fulfilment genres was pointed out to me. I didn't read those, either, but took them much more seriously as a popular art form. Turns out my "good taste" had a large helping of "no, no, you're right, I especially hate that terrible lady stuff, too, so I can be part of your superior club". The derision and mockery for romance novels and not action thrillers is insanely sexist. They're both, on average, mediocre and formulaic genre fiction. The quality difference comes down to the cultural value we place on the intended audience for that genre fiction, and thus on the genre elements intended for them.

 

And the analysis of the romance genre and why it's so hated is fascinating. That post nails quite a bit of it. Challenging the conventions about who does the emotional labor, the significance that women and domestic labor are allowed to hold, even the idea of who is permitted to have a central role in a fictional narrative, whose desires are considered valid, and whose concerns and priorities are allowed to define the shape of narrative... super fascinating. The genre formula still doesn't speak to me as a reader, but on the whole, I now have a ton of time for listening to romance writers talk about the business and the genre. In general, they're absolute pros who are very thoughtful about what they're doing, and it's culturally a super important genre for how deliberately it exposes gendered values and preconceptions that would otherwise be invisible. (Seriously, as an industry, they have one of the highest standards of professionalism I've seen in a cohort of writers. The product is not for me, but it's not getting churned out by hacks.)

  • Like 3

I felt like I could run forever, like I could smell the wind and feel the grass under my feet, and just run forever.

Current Challenge: #24 - Mrs. Cosmopolite Challenge

Past: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6,  #7#8, #9#10, #11a & #11b, #12, #13, #14, #15, #16, #17, #18, #19, #20, #21, #22, #23

Link to comment
8 hours ago, Tobbe said:

And maple butter? Never heard of it! But now I'm intrigued. What do you use it for? What do you put it on?

 

Neither have I, though I've seen coconut butter lately. I dunno, I guess we need some word for all that stuff, and butter sounds tastier than paste, but maybe it's getting a touch overused. Like all the various milks. Maybe the revealing thing is just how huge a touchstone dairy is in our diets and concepts of deliciousness, and it's less about the accuracy and more about how we dairy shit up to make it sound yummy.

 

8 hours ago, Tobbe said:

Take that out of context and you'll upset a lot of people!😅 

 

WHY WOULD YOU DO ME LIKE THIS, TOBBE. ;)

 

7 hours ago, Harriet said:

I can relate. Am I a bear? Can I become a bear? Can I have some more pfeffersalami? Yes, I can.

 

These are the important questions in life, and a minimum of one should get an affirmative answer.

  • Like 1

I felt like I could run forever, like I could smell the wind and feel the grass under my feet, and just run forever.

Current Challenge: #24 - Mrs. Cosmopolite Challenge

Past: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6,  #7#8, #9#10, #11a & #11b, #12, #13, #14, #15, #16, #17, #18, #19, #20, #21, #22, #23

Link to comment

Calling it peanut butter always made sense to me, because it does spread like butter. I didn't quite get the apple butter term, it seemed more like jam to me than butter. Maybe it's because I like my jam to be pretty smooth anyway? Looked up a difference and found this, which I found interesting

https://eatouteatwell.com/whats-the-difference-between-jam-jelly-and-fruit-butter/

Wisdom 22.5   Dexterity 13   Charisma 15   Strength 21  Constitution-13

"If more of us valued food and cheer and song, above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world" J.R.R.Tolkien

Link to comment
5 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

These are the important questions in life, and a minimum of one should get an affirmative answer.

 

At least one wish was fulfilled today, probably the salami. Also, because I hit my carbs without hitting my calories today (due to a vegetarian dinner) I was obliged to fill the gaps with cream. Not wanting to drink straight cream, I whipped it until firm, and ate it with a spoon. 50g to make about a third of a cup. Life could be worse as a bear spirited ravenous human.

 

15 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

 Culturally, we learn to despise the ways young women express themselves and what they love, because the worst thing you can be is like a young woman, and it has to be rejected harder.

 

 

I don't think we save a lot of cultural love and admiration for middle aged and old women, either. Though you can certainly win some fleeting approval at any age if you do certain approved things, this is not to be mistaken for enduring respect. And I've noticed that even my 'progressive' friends and relatives will join in the woman bashing, if it is couched in the correct, fashionable terms.

  • Like 2

Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the artist

Link to comment
1 minute ago, Harriet said:

I don't think we save a lot of cultural love and admiration for middle aged and old women, either. Though you can certainly win some fleeting approval at any age if you do certain approved things, this is not to be mistaken for enduring respect. And I've noticed that even my 'progressive' friends and relatives will join in the woman bashing, if it is couched in the correct, fashionable terms.

 

This is absolutely true. I was thinking a lot about how the soccer mom trope has evolved into the even more derisive wine mom trope when I posted this. 

 

(The US loathes maternity, IMO. We praise mom and apple pie, but there is no loathing out there like the loathing for a woman who has had or is going to have a child in US culture. Let anyone talk about the concerns of working women, and you'll start seeing the "she knew the consequences of spreading her legs and letting someone splooge up there" comment crowd come out of the woodwork, and I wish I could say that was exaggeration rather than a quote of what someone said when Kate Mulgrew said that standard 18 hour days for seven years was rough when you had two kids at home. Jail time for miscarriages being a thing we have really done. Wine moms. The total loss of respect for time spent on oneself, rather than the partial loss. No one is despised and policed like mothers are despised and policed in the US, and I say that knowing how bad the school dress code teenage temptress vapid airhead Lolita culture around teens is. Just add pregnancy, and it's worse.)

 

The difference, I think, is that middle-aged women naturally share a lot more concerns with middle-aged men than teenage girls do (career issues and so on), they have a little more earned status (financial or professional), and they've also learned to tone it down and code switch more. Plus there's less intense fascination going along with the dislike; teenage girls fascinate as well as repel in a higher-intensity way. Middle-aged women are not really any more respected or admired, but they are more invisible. But I hear you, the question of whether teen girls or older women have lower status is a real question, and very much down to context and what sort of status we mean.

  • Like 4

I felt like I could run forever, like I could smell the wind and feel the grass under my feet, and just run forever.

Current Challenge: #24 - Mrs. Cosmopolite Challenge

Past: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6,  #7#8, #9#10, #11a & #11b, #12, #13, #14, #15, #16, #17, #18, #19, #20, #21, #22, #23

Link to comment
22 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

Middle-aged women are not really any more respected or admired, but they are more invisible. But I hear you, the question of whether teen girls or older women have lower status is a real question, and very much down to context and what sort of status we mean.

 

They get vitriol and contempt when they do the "wrong" things, like disagree, seek power, or show assertiveness, or try too hard, or not hard enough, to look young and beautiful. But I didn't want to make it a comparison or say whose status is lowest. Instead, I wish to cultivate deliberate love, respect and admiration for women of all ages, as an antidote to the woman hating poison with which we are all regularly injected from a young age.

 

ETA maternity receives more adulation than respect: distant insincere worship and soft cooing at the symbol of motherhood, but no actual concrete love for real flesh and blood women who are mothers, like lots of paid time off and excellent maternity care and while I'm at it an entire system of work, politics, and public transport that is compatible with and indeed designed around being a primary carer, rather than crafted on the assumption of the flexibility of non-carers. Un-carers?

  • Like 1

Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the artist

Link to comment
39 minutes ago, Harriet said:

ETA maternity receives more adulation than respect: distant insincere worship and soft cooing at the symbol of motherhood, but no actual concrete love for real flesh and blood women who are mothers, like lots of paid time off and excellent maternity care and while I'm at it an entire system of work, politics, and public transport that is compatible with and indeed designed around being a primary carer, rather than crafted on the assumption of the flexibility of non-carers. Un-carers?

 

Sort of also rhymes with the general attitude (in the US in my limited observation at least) that having and displaying the belief that such things should be treasured is viewed as more valuable than actually behaving as though said belief is true.  Kind of like when you see the statement "Your feedback is highly valued and will help us improve our products and services." Uh-huh.

 

It's seems to be important for some that others think we possess a particular belief than it is that we make any changes as a result of that belief. Suspect it might be a cost-benefit thing. The costs of espousing a belief are incredibly low compared to the benefits of doing so. Vice versa for actually acting on the belief.

  • Like 3

"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it." -Henry Ford

"The older I get, the more I understand that the only way to say valuable things is to lose your fear of being correct." -Malcolm Gladwell

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

New here? Please check out our Privacy Policy and Community Guidelines