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1 hour ago, Jarric said:

I love the image of the difference between America and England being encapsulated by chilli cookouts vs. cakes as village fêtes - there's a comedy sketch in there somewhere.

 

Probably it involves some sort of run-in between a group of cowboys and the Women's Institute. I would like to think there are watercress sandwiches and the best china brought out for tea, and a lot of cowboys trying to fit on chintz-covered chairs and keep their pinkies raised. I can't decide whether the vicar or the winning cake gets roped and hog-tied.

 

1 hour ago, Jarric said:

On the pumpkin spice thing, I was very confused when that became available over here, and that's because we don't really do pumpkin pie. In fact, most people never eat pumpkin at all - we buy one a year at Halloween, cut a face in it, throw away the flesh, and that's it. I think if England had invented the pumpkin spice latte independently of the US, we would have called it a mulled latte or something similar, as those (I think) are the kind of spices you put in mulled wine or mulled cider.

 

Yeah, it seems like a strange thing to sell to the UK, unless they're selling the Americana angle heavily, like all things peanut butter. There really aren't a lot of winter squash foods in the UK that I know of , let alone pumpkin bread or pumpkin pie or pumpkin scones or etc. (Though Kate Nash assures me you have pumpkin soup.)

 

 

Over here, there's a lot of orange peel in mulled wine. I think mince pies might come closer, in terms of replicating the spice profile. A mince pie latte. Or a spice cake latte. But a mulling spice latte does make the most sense, in terms of an actual prepackaged spice blend that can be repurposed. I think a slightly orangey cinnamon blend latte would be fantastic, and you should do that. I'm utterly down for the mulling spice latte.

 

(Years ago, early in the pumpkin spice trend, a big grocery chain with a popular store brand of spices brought out both pumpkin pie spice and apple pie spice blends, which seemed oddly redundant, because it's essentially the same thing. Needless to say, only one returned the next year. In their favor, their pumpkin pie spice blend is the best one I've ever had - it has a couple of ingredients that are not at all standard in pumpkin spice blends - and is practically an aphrodisiac on cooked apples.)

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17 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

it has a couple of ingredients that are not at all standard in pumpkin spice blends - and is practically an aphrodisiac on cooked apples.)

Is… is it Chinese 5 spice? Coz I caused a kerfuffle over on my thread with that 🙊 

 

When I was a child I distinctly remember making “quince jelly-jam”, but other than that: jam or marmalade are the standard Aussie fruit spreads… occasionally “conserve” but I’ve never been clear about the difference between that and jam…

oh! And mint jelly… for your lamb… but otherwise “jelly” is the jello kind. I have seen “lemon butter” (though now I think about it it might have been called lemon curd?) but not the other kinds discussed in this thread.

 

Love the “mulled latte” terminology, sounds rather hobbitish.

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7 minutes ago, Yasha92 said:

Is… is it Chinese 5 spice? Coz I caused a kerfuffle over on my thread with that 🙊 

 

No, it's not, but now that I know there's another spice kerfuffle to wade into, you can expect me any minute. :D

 

Sci-Fi Movie GIF

 

IIRC Chinese five-spice is sort of a sweet-savory blend, so it has some of the western sweet baking spices, but also, like, peppercorns and stuff. It does seem to have way more cloves and cinnamon than I tend to associate with Chinese flavor profiles, and apart from star anise, all the ingredients are super common in the west, so I wonder if it's actually western-Chinese in origin. I know savory cinnamon is a thing in middle eastern cooking, but I don't think of it in China. Then again, I never associated cumin with China, and Sichuan has some amazing cumin lamb. And China has a wide spice culture buried in traditional Chinese medicine that I think we never see in the west, so those spices could easily be just as common in certain types of Chinese cooking we're never exposed to. Still, being packaged for the west and being in stores for so many decades in the west makes me think of it like curry powder, basically an Anglo interpretation of the flavor profile. I do have a jar of it, but I think of it as the flavor of American Chinese food.

 

I'd bet you could make a great spice cake with Chinese five spice, though. I have had black pepper cookies and anise cookies, and they're really good, if very old fashioned. It would taste sort of unexpected, but the sugar and maybe some extra cinnamon would make it seem totally deliberate.

 

The standard pumpin spice, or any cinnamon based baking blend, is cinnamon and some combo of cloves, ginger, allspice, and nutmeg, in order of ubiquity. Those are basically all the sweet baking spices, and the cinnamon is the important one, with the rest rearranged to taste. Pick at least any three out of five, and you'll get away with it. (Gingerbread is basically the same again, with ginger dominating the cinnamon.)

 

The thing this spice blend adds that's sort of out of the blue is lemon zest and cardamom. Sweden uses cardamom in baking, but the US really doesn't at all. It's an amazing spice, though. I could write odes to cardamom. Lemon zest is common in baking, but in the whole other genre of spring lemon flavored things, not autumn cinnamon flavored things. But it's the most amazing cinnamon spice blend ever, and is the only reason I can in any way be considered a pumpkin spice addict, because I need to stock up on this one specific blend every year. Standard pumpkin spice, meh, I can replicate it by randomly dumping in stuff I have. It's a lot of fuss over a generic baking spice blend. This stuff, I don't even bother with regular cinnamon in baking recipes when I have this stuff around. Cinnamon is for basic bitches when you have this spice blend of the gods.

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56 minutes ago, Yasha92 said:

Love the “mulled latte” terminology, sounds rather hobbitish.

 

It's the latte part that I can't get past here. I keep trying to imagine who frequents espresso bars and coffee houses in the Shire, and I feel like we're back to the meeting place of teenage hobbit girls who are not down with the coarse quaffing of ale at the pub, but not old and matronly enough for afternoon tea.

 

Then again, someone is clearly overcaffeinated...

 

the hobbit film GIF

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25 minutes ago, Tobbe said:

Not here, at least not in absolute amounts. This is the standard recipe for gingerbread spice:

 

2 tbsp cinnamon

1 tbsp ginger

1 tbsp cardamon

1 tbsp cloves

 

I don't think it's so standardised here. And cardamom would be really... unexpected. It's just not used in American baking, full stop. In the regions with Swedish immigrants, I'm sure there are Swedish recipes that use it, but it has about zero other culinary recognition.

 

The Joy of Cooking is the old school cooking bible for conservative versions of traditional recipes, before people got into "gingerbread with three types of ginger" fads, and this is their gingerbread cookie recipe. 1 part cloves, 2 parts cinnamon, 4 parts ginger.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if American cooking were higher in ginger than the UK. If you look at old 18th and 19th century recipes, there seems to be more ginger than cinnamon in general. I suspect we had an easier time importing it.

 

Hrm, looks like that is probably the case. Ginger was grown in the Caribbean, so it was incredibly easy to import, especially as part of the triangle trade. It was basically next door with our biggest trading partner. Cinnamon would have been much harder and more expensive to get.

 

(I think there is also a fair amount of nutmeg grown in the Caribbean, and that would explain how huge nutmeg was in 18th and 19th century American cooking. If you watch Townsend & Son on YouTube, it's practically the nutmeg cooking channel. Come to think of it, we have a Nutmeg State, don't we? We may actually have grown it at one point. ETA: We did not grow it, we imported it. Looks like a New England port, so probably it came along on the sugarcane run from the Caribbean to the rum producing cities on that leg of the triangle trade.)

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2 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

I don't think it's so standardised here. And cardamom would be really... unexpected. It's just not used in American baking, full stop. In the regions with Swedish immigrants, I'm sure there are Swedish recipes that use it, but it has about zero other culinary recognition.

Wait, really? I use cardamom quite a bit. But then again, I’m not using any recipes that were handed down to me or from old cookbooks. So my cooking and baking could very well just not be very American.

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1 minute ago, zeroh13 said:

Wait, really? I use cardamom quite a bit. But then again, I’m not using any recipes that were handed down to me or from old cookbooks. So my cooking and baking could very well just not be very American.

 

Oh, I love the stuff. Cardamom coffee, cardamom meringues, cardamom in curries, cardamom to sniff out of the jar...

 

But the coffee is middle eastern (and rare in the US), cardamom cake is Scandinavian (and rare in the US), the curry is Indian, the meringues are god knows what, maybe someone's personal recipe I found on the internet (and definitely rare in the US). It's just not really there in the traditional American food canon. The modern melting pot, yes. In 1950, 1960, 1970, even 1980, the average cook simply wouldn't use it, or have any spice mix or recipe that would use it, outside of the Scandinavian immigrant regions of the Midwest.

 

I do have a vintage copy of the Joy of Cooking, and I bet there'll be something in there with cardamom, because it's a massive book with a lot of reach into some obscure and regional stuff, and it probably has some Scandinavian immigrant recipes, but probably not very much.

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11 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

I do have a vintage copy of the Joy of Cooking, and I bet there'll be something in there with cardamom, because it's a massive book with a lot of reach into some obscure and regional stuff, and it probably has some Scandinavian immigrant recipes, but probably not very much.

 

There is indeed one single "Scandinavian coffee cake" recipe with cardamom. The only mention in the index goes to the "care and feeding of spices" section, where it has the shortest entry. Basically, always grind fresh, use like cinnamon or cloves, the small variety is useful in barbecue and pickles, and it's nice in coffee. (I'm surprised they were drinking Lebanese coffee at the time, but it is good in coffee.)

 

On another note, this book is surprisingly sophisticated about good curries for 1963, in the spice section if not in the recipe section. The sauce recipe in the sauce section is totally Anglo apple-raisin-roux nonsense, but the spice section is all, "no, don't, put the jar away, here are three good from-scratch spice mixes, and consider coconut milk", like someone had eaten actual south Indian curry. And it's crazy-inclusive of obscure vegetables and herbs. The old Victorian ones weren't a surprise, but chayote and taro were. (Why is there a recipe for poi in a book for 1960s housewives, guys. I guess we had Hawaiian housewives, too. But, like... the recipe calling for, preferably, shiritaki noodles, in 1963.) And it starts out with a whole chapter on mixed drinks. Such a weird book. It's got you covered for everything from a pretentious seven course French dinner party in New York with the entire oeuvre of fancy French sauces and Viennese pastry, to generic suburban weeknight meatloaf and mac and cheeze meals, to historical recreation meals from the Tudor to the colonial, to your basic touchstones of various immigrant cuisines (and a lot of weirdly specific authentic ingredients buried away like easter eggs), to food preservation instructions and recipes for farmhouses that rely on home canning and smoking, to processing wild game from removing lead shot to skinning and preparing game birds, rabbit, squirrel, woodchuck, moose, beaver... and, of course, bear. Rundowns of every known method of cooking, including dozens of outdoor methods and how to do fireless cooking with insulation and thermal mass to conserve fuel. There is a recipe for whale. Basically anything cooked in the history of the US and a lot of the history of the UK, it's trying for at least a mention of.

 

Joy of Cooking, I have underestimated you. You are a strange, geeky food book. I thought you were a solidly comprehensive grandma's cookbook with the unfortunate inclusion of the jello salad delights of the 1950s, and here you are handing me pit-cooking tips for the fall of civilization and a recipe for whale.

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2 hours ago, Tobbe said:

@sarakingdom Just wanted to let you know I really appreciate your deep knowledge of spices/recipes, and your thoughtful responses in general. Thank you ❤️ 

 

Aww, that is the nicest possible way you could say "cannot shut up about patriarchy and spices already". 😘

 

(They are two of my favorite things to grind and consume!)

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On 9/21/2021 at 6:14 PM, sarakingdom said:

You were intended to use chili powder as the base of a heat-optional recipe, then adjust to your family's taste with cayenne at home. The stuff in the stores is very mild, universally inoffensive stuff. You can tell a hot pepper walked past it in the factory, but your elderly great-uncle who thinks salt and pepper is enough seasoning for most things won't complain.

 

BTW, I did look up the recipe for chili powder in the Joy of Cooking to see what the traditional ratio was, and it looks like they say 3 teaspoons of paprika to 1/8th of a teaspoon of cayenne, which is approximately the definition of "a hot pepper walked past it in the factory". That's probably about what the generic McCormick's chili powder uses. That'd make off-the-shelf US chili powder about 1% hot chili pepper. So if you're making a recipe that says "add chili powder", powdered chilies will be 9900% too hot. Not recommended. Especially since it's probably going to say, like, 100g or something.

 

Its A Trap Movie GIF by Star Wars

 

(Pretty sure the Joy of Cooking has a recipe for preparing that guy...)

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19 hours ago, Tobbe said:

 

Jelly is made with just the juices from the fruit. And because of that you have to add gelatin to make it set.

Are you in the UK? https://www.britishcornershop.co.uk/tiptree-black-currant-jelly

 

 

So what's the difference between strawberry jam and strawberry marmalade? Or gooseberry jam/marmalade  ;)

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm in the UK. Again that isn't a product you would see on most supermarket shelves here - Tiptree are quite a specialist/niche brand.

 

For reference, here's a search for 'jelly' at my local supermarket: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/search?query=jelly

 

That search goes so far off topic that at one point there's a pack of chocolate biscuits in the list, and it still never goes anywhere near a fruit preserve.

 

And I've never heard of strawberry marmalade, or gooseberry marmalade, so I don't know. The definition of marmalade and jam is the difference between whole fruit and flesh only though.

 

9 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

So if you're making a recipe that says "add chili powder", powdered chilies will be 9900% too hot. Not recommended. Especially since it's probably going to say, like, 100g or something.

 

Ah, now I actually understand this problem! A recipe here would include 1tsp of chilli powder. Maybe 2tsp at most for something really hot, but most certainly not 100g!

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9 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

Especially since it's probably going to say, like, 100g or something.

 

Ohh, I was going to come to this, but then I forgot. I was going to say/ask "I bet your chili powder jars/containers are a lot bigger than ours". I haven't actually measured, but I'm eyeballing the jar to contain at most half a cup. (It's 41 grams.) And a typical chili recipe here calls for like one or two tablespoons.

 

I'd say this would be a pretty typical chili recipe (haven't tried it myself, so can't vouch for the flavor)

 

2 lbs beef

½ lbs bacon

3 cloves garlic

1 large onion

1 large red bell pepper

1 tsp salt

1 tbsp tomato paste

1 tbsp chili powder

1 tbsp cumin

½ tbsp oregano

2 tbsp chipotle paste

2 tsp sambal oelek

1 cup beef stock

28 oz crushed tomatoes

2 tbsp soy sauce

½ tsp pepper

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53 minutes ago, Jarric said:

The definition of marmalade and jam is the difference between whole fruit and flesh only though.

 

I guess it's a regional thing :)  We don't have a clear definition like that. It's more about the consistency here, or the intended use I guess. Marmalade is a spread and jam is a topping or used in baking. Strawberry marmalade is for putting on your cream on your scone or on the cream cheese on your toast. Strawberry jam is for topping your porridge or bowl of cereal. Or my kid's favourite -- Swedish pancakes. Marmalade (or chutney), not jam, is also what you'd pair with the cheese on a cheese platter 🧀

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23 hours ago, Tobbe said:

Jelly is made with just the juices from the fruit. And because of that you have to add gelatin to make it set.

 

Ah, when I saw jelly and jam, I knew we had a whole new transatlantic kerfuffle here. :D

 

The jarred spread-on-toast jelly is actually gelled with fruit pectin, not gelatin. (Which is fortunate for vegetarians, because gelatin is not vegetarian.)

 

So here's my best guess on the 18th century divergence of jelly. Back then, jelly seems to have covered anything with a firm set, from fruit jelly set with fruit pectins to your basic disgusting jellied eels and whatever other horrible things they could shove into an animal gelatin. The latter are things that in the US were called aspics, back in the day when we had savory gelled dishes. (The tomato version survived till about the 1950s, but that's the only one I've met in the wild.) When I did a quick "did I remember this right" check on aspics, I found they used to be known as aspic gelee, which suddenly made the usage divergence make sense. The UK adopted a lot of French culinary terms in the 1800s that the US did not, like aubergine. I think they also adopted gelee, or jelly, for your basic gelatin-set dish, while we kept the aspic, like parents splitting up the kids in a divorce.

 

Part of all this is that the US, for some reason, did not have a lot of gelatin-containing dishes in the colonial period, when they were huge in the UK and Europe. I truly don't know why, because I'm sure we also had cows' hooves to eke every bit of nutrition out of, and perhaps we did use them some, but for some reason did not have enough dead cows to have a whole jellied food culture like jellied eels in the UK, jellied veal towards your German regions, or terrine in France. Probably we reserved everything for the soup pot. Or maybe we made glue, because we were short of glue animals. I don't know. (This would be my best guess, that we really needed the hoof glue and waterproofing. It looks like native cultures used exclusively animal glue and waterproofing, so we may have been very short of other natural glue sources without strong imports.) So in the US, most of the gelled stuff that people actually saw and ate on the regular was the stuff gelled with fruit pectins rather than animal gelatin, and we kept the general gelled food word "jelly" for fruit jellies. During that same period, jellied eels in the UK were turning out to be a surprisingly dominant working class protein source, and what with the trending aspic gelees, I'd bet it started losing fruit connotations over there the same time it was becoming exclusively fruit over here.

 

So I think where this leaves us is that we both have a few historical jelly holdovers of each sort from when we shared a culinary tradition, but when we split, there were economic and supply reasons why the most common usage diverged.

 

I think we basically agree on what jam is, and on what marmalade is. And to introduce another can of worms, preserves, which over here is usually a synonym for jam, particularly very chunky jam, but also covers things like chutneys, and I think is probably originally literally "foods and relishes preserved for the off-season", which is what jam is, but we no longer really think of food preservation as a necessity. This is probably also the origin of conserves, which got a mention. Same meaning, essentially. The US for some reason doesn't have a curd tradition, and my best guess would be because it's basically a way of making a jelly out of citrus juices by adding egg yolks as a thickener. (I'm not an expert, but I'd guess the high acidity made it a lot harder to process with pectin like a regular jelly, so they had to practically make a custard out of it, and add enough sugar to preserve that. There's gotta be some reason it's an exclusively citrus thing.) I'd bet this is because we didn't have easy access to citrus back in the day, while you guys were getting it from Italy and France.

 

23 hours ago, Tobbe said:

So what's the difference between strawberry jam and strawberry marmalade? Or gooseberry jam/marmalade  ;)

 

I believe technically none, especially as you look at how the word marmalade got adopted into English, but it seems to have almost immediately become All About The Rind. If a  fruit has no rind, it ain't a marmalade. It's essentially a rind preserve with the rest of the fruit just along for the ride.

 

(I understand that I have just opened up the door to a watermelon marmalade here, and I do not think I object to this.)

 

ETA: I should not say things like that, because of course it exists. I was aware of old-fashioned watermelon rind pickles, so I should have realized someone, somewhere, was jamming it. Which maybe I will consider.

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4 hours ago, Jarric said:

Ah, now I actually understand this problem! A recipe here would include 1tsp of chilli powder. Maybe 2tsp at most for something really hot, but most certainly not 100g!

 

I mean, that is a huge pot, but yeah, we're definitely talking tablespoons, not teaspoons. And a few tablespoons hits a quarter cup awfully quick. (I may have done that mental conversion a bit hastily. It's like 15g per tablespoon, so maybe we're talking more like 45-60g. Still more hot chili than most people want in their soup bowl.)

 

3 hours ago, Tobbe said:

3 cloves garlic

1 large red bell pepper

1 tbsp chili powder

1 tbsp cumin

½ tbsp oregano

 

These things (and possibly the chipotle paste) are what's covered by the chili powder, and hence why you use so much of it. You're still adding a tablespoon or so of all that stuff, but you're doing it out of the same bottle.

 

3 hours ago, Tobbe said:

2 tsp sambal oelek

2 tbsp soy sauce

 

Ah, yes, good old traditional Mexican sambal oelek and soy sauce. I hate to break it to you, but I think your typical recipe is for Malaysian food, not chili. ;)

 

Seriously, though, I'm sure it's good, and it does have the equivalent of chili powder in it, and I've also been known to throw the sriracha around carelessly in the kitchen, but I have Very Serious Reservations about bacon and soy sauce in a "typical" chili. This recipe is not something I would consider in the same family as chili, even taking into account that everyone's got secret-ingredient modifications. I guess I'd take any one of bacon, sambal oelek, or soy sauce as someone's secret fusion ingredient, but all three takes it pretty far from a chili. Also, that fresh pepper. I'll give the onion a pass, but the pepper bothers me. Vegetables do not go into chili. Beef, sauce, and beans. (Minus the beans if you're Texan. They have opinions about beans. But everywhere else, the beans are mandatory.) Because of Texas, I can accept the lack of beans, although it's flying against the spirit of the dish, but this ingredient list is essentially for an Asian spicy bacon stew with Provencal vegetables. Which sounds kind of good, but may not need that chili powder much.

 

(I mean, some places can't get Mexican chilies or jalapenos or anything, so you have no choice but to reach for the Asian chili sauce, and it'll basically do the heat job. But soy sauce. JESUS WEPT. Bacon and no beans. MORALLY WRONG. I ask again, WHY WOULD YOU DO ME LIKE THIS, TOBBE.) :D

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On 9/20/2021 at 10:08 PM, Yasha92 said:

- “not like other girls” attitude, which I held as a teenager. Now as an adult I am learning to respect and appreciate all the different ‘types’ of female humans there are.

 

On 9/22/2021 at 2:33 AM, SkyGirl said:

I am deeply enjoying this conversation and nodding vigorously at many parts of it, and offer this insightful podcast episode as my contribution:

 

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/01/653339162/-man-up-how-a-fear-of-appearing-feminine-restricts-men-and-affects-us-all

 

I had a reply to these this morning that got eaten, so I'll try again. (Really good podcast, by the way.) Putting these together, because they reminded me of the same story:

 

So Terry Pratchett wrote a fantasy book in the mid 90s that very pointedly discussed an issue that I didn't see in mainstream discussions for another fifteen years or so. It's two female cops having a conversation about being women on the force, and just in general. The new cop is a dwarf, and officially there is a single dwarf gender - All Dwarfs Are Men - and she's about to break dwarf gender roles and come out as a woman. And the other woman tells her that she's always sort of envied female dwarfs, because they have much more freedom than other women in the city, who are a bit restricted by female gender roles. And the dwarf says, yeah, that's true, you can do anything the men do, provided you only do what the men do. That's fine if the things you like to do are quaffing ale in bars and singing about mining gold and swaggering around in your chain mail, but what she wants is a pretty dress and a fruity cocktail with a little umbrella and a civilized discussion about absolutely anything except gold. The other woman, who was the first woman on the police force (who are unusually, even controversially, egalitarian employers in the city), says, ah, yeah, I understand, that's just like being a cop: you can be any sex you like in the police force, provided you act male.

 

And that's the trap a lot of the early waves of women in male-dominated professions hit, but didn't seem to have the language for until fairly recently: you could be accepted and respected in your profession, as long as you conformed to male behavior, speech patterns, norms, and interests. And a lot of them did end up rejecting a ton of feminine interests and behaviors, adopting the "not like other girls" attitude, etc., to survive there. They had to draw the line between themselves and other, more traditionally feminine women, and adopt a lot of the signs of masculinity to be accepted. Big companies mentor women in the workplace by literally tutoring them in how to conform to male speech patterns and career advancement behaviors to help them succeed. (I've been through those courses more than once myself.) So what they ended up accomplishing in the first round of glass ceiling breaking was that individual women could achieve relatively equal status with men (until their ability to conform to masculinity slipped, as it inevitably would in certain situations), but femininity was still low-status and not accepted as worthy or professional. We accomplished improvements in gender equality by giving everyone access to masculinity, not by significantly changing the stigma around femininity.

 

So there are tons of women unlearning "not like other girls" attitudes and the learned misogyny of rejecting traditionally feminine things. That was the available route to gender equality when a lot of us were teens, and honestly is still a lot of it. Of course a lot of us took that route. Especially the geeky ones, who were a little outside mainstream interests for other, nerdier reasons. Women are working hard to not have to "do masculinity" to be accepted as equals. And there are tons of guys working hard to do masculinity by avoiding a lot of things that are coded feminine and low-status, like nursing and other service jobs that are an increasingly large share of the job market. We didn't change the patriarchal status hierarchy of promoting masculinity and lowering femininity, and it's hurting everyone socially and professionally right now. (And it's why we can have made so much progress, and yet still as a society hate the things teenage girls love simply because they're loved by teenage girls. We still stigmatize femininity, especially the loud and unrestrained femininity of teenage girls, and people need to solidify their social status by being seen to reject the feminine and assert their membership in a higher-status group.)

 

This was all a discussion I started seeing in, hrm, 2010, 2013? And it seemed like a weirdly subtle thing to first grasp, like this invisible failure of feminism, and then weirdly subtle to explain to someone who hadn't seen it before, because, like, how much do you need to explain the concept of gender roles and patriarchy, and then hope they didn't stop listening the second you said one of those words, and so on. Then I read this Pratchett novel, and it was right there on the page in the clearest form I'd ever seen it spelled out, back in the mid 90s. You can do anything the men do, provided you only do what the men do. You can be any sex you like in the workforce, provided you act male. I wished I'd read the book when it came out. I think most women in traditionally male professions have been completely blindsided by this problem at some point in their careers.

 

 

I miss Pratchett. He was way ahead of the curve on talking about and portraying women. Like the double standard of the pink collar economy and the "you can be any sex you like, provided it's male" trap. He was talking about those things a decade or two before I started seeing the discussions happen. And he also had tons and tons of female heroines who were all heroic in different and very non-male-coded ways, and many of them the exact sorts of women who are socially invisible. Unusual representation and unusually perceptive about the influence of patriarchy. (Even on his male characters, at times. The only ones who ever clearly saw through the patriarchal pressures they were being limited by were Vetinari, who clearly saw through everything, and occasionally Nobby Nobbs, who learned he had a feminine side to explore and promptly lost his shit with men like himself.)

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3 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

Ah, yes, good old traditional Mexican sambal oelek and soy sauce. I hate to break it to you, but I think your typical recipe is for Malaysian food, not chili. ;)

 

I thought those might raise an eyebrow or two :)  

I forgot to specify, and I probably should have, but that's dark soy sauce, because that was the only kind that was around outside of Chinese restaurants up until like 20-25 years ago (and Chinese restaurants were the only kind of asian restaurants the general population had access to here).

And you're right about the sambal oelek. It's just to bump up the heat level. And sambal is way more common here than sriracha.

 

And a chili here definitely does not have beans (or chili stew, or even better "chili pot")) as we'd call it.

If you put beans in it, everyone here would call the dish "chili con carne", and it would not have any heat to it at all. And it's not uncommon to add heavy cream to it.

 

 

4 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

The jarred spread-on-toast jelly is actually gelled with fruit pectin, not gelatin. (Which is fortunate for vegetarians, because gelatin is not vegetarian.)

 

I'm sorry, I might have jumped to culinary conclusions when I said jelly was made with gelatin that aren't entirely true :( I'd have to ask my mom what the traditional way of making it would be. Looking at recipes online there are all kinds of gelling agents used. The most common way of making both jams, marmalade and jelly these days is probably by using "gelling sugar), which is a sugar pre-mixed with carrageenan and locust bean gum.

 

4 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

I think they also adopted gelee, or jelly, for your basic gelatin-set dish, while we kept the aspic, like parents splitting up the kids in a divorce.

 

Interesting to read about the origin of the word. The Swedish word for jelly is "gelé". And we do still eat a savory jelly, jellied veal. Or "kalvsylta", where "kalv" is veal and "sylt" is the word we use for jam. (And marmalade is "marmelad")

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5 hours ago, Tobbe said:

2 tsp sambal oelek

2 tbsp soy sauce

 

I'm over here like "Hm, I might have to try that next time." 

 

Kinda similar to mine, but instead of beef stock, I use two cans of beer and top up with some water.

 

I've also know a dude who uses cocoa powder as a flavoring agent.

"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it." -Henry Ford

"The older I get, the more I understand that the only way to say valuable things is to lose your fear of being correct." -Malcolm Gladwell

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1 hour ago, Tobbe said:

I'm sorry, I might have jumped to culinary conclusions when I said jelly was made with gelatin that aren't entirely true :( I'd have to ask my mom what the traditional way of making it would be. Looking at recipes online there are all kinds of gelling agents used. The most common way of making both jams, marmalade and jelly these days is probably by using "gelling sugar), which is a sugar pre-mixed with carrageenan and locust bean gum.

 

 

I remember a long time ago -- like 2008 or something -- I was sort of kind of trying to be vegetarian, and I was watching some TV special about how marshmallows are made, and I was, like, horrified about how gelatin is actually made. I kind of figured it was like Elmer's Glue, sure it *used* to be made from bones and such, and you can probably still buy the fancy kind that is, but I figured for the most part that marshmallows were made from random chemicals that I should also probably not be putting in my body, but which were not ground up pig bits. But nope. It's ground up pig bits all the way down.

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