[Scaly Freak]

Actually, let's see if these links work... this is what I do when I look for new products to test out.

 

First I go to one of my favorite online stores for these kinds of products, Ulta.com. and do a keyword search for "air dry". Then, on the page that comes up, select the category "hair", and then the sub-category "styling products". That leaves me with this page with 39 results to look through: https://www.ulta.com/ulta/a/Hair-Styling-Products/_/N-26xf/Ntt-air+dry?ciSelector=searchResults, and then I sort them by "top rated"

 

I have a slight wave in my hair, but no real curls to speak of, so I'm not interested in anything "curl enhancing" , or anything "texture" or "sculpt" in the name. I'm also probably going to dismiss anything that doesn't have "air dry" in the product name for my first pass across the page. Using these criteria to narrow tings down, I've ended up with nine or ten products I'm actually interested in. And then the tedious part starts because now I need to start reading product descriptions and user reviews for these, and make a decision.  

 

[Harriet]

59 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

My bad. I should have been more clear that when I said reviews, I meant the ones left by customers on the store website. The best of articles are not reliable. Again , my bad.

 

I don't know if all of these are available in Germany, but look for products by Biolage, Matrix, Redken, Sexy Hair,  Bumble & Bumble, to start with. Also look for those travel sizes and trial sizes Alanna was talking about, and you should expect to need to test out several different ones before finding perfection.

 

9 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

Actually, let's see if these links work... this is what I do when I look for new products to test out.

 

First I go to one of my favorite online stores for these kinds of products, Ulta.com. and do a keyword search for "air dry". Then, on the page that comes up, select the category "hair", and then the sub-category "styling products". That leaves me with this page with 39 results to look through: https://www.ulta.com/ulta/a/Hair-Styling-Products/_/N-26xf/Ntt-air+dry?ciSelector=searchResults, and then I sort them by "top rated"

 

I have a slight wave in my hair, but no real curls to speak of, so I'm not interested in anything "curl enhancing" , or anything "texture" or "sculpt" in the name. I'm also probably going to dismiss anything that doesn't have "air dry" in the product name for my first pass across the page. Using these criteria to narrow tings down, I've ended up with nine or ten products I'm actually interested in. And then the tedious part starts because now I need to start reading product descriptions and user reviews for these, and make a decision.  

 

 

Thank you! I have found a similar site for germany that sells lots and lots and lots of cosmetics and beauty products. I have checked out a few of the brands you mentioned. Other people also seem to mention kerastase and loreal profesionnel in the same bracket. The number of products is still overwhelming but I will work through them and figure out what I need. I suspect there is a lot of overlap between products and I don't need *everything* (mask! leave in conditioner! air dry cream! detangling spray! serum!). I will stay away from "volume" and maybe look at the "frizz" and "damage" categories.

[Harriet]

6 hours ago, Alanna said:

Can't help on brands, but something that might make the experimenting easier/cheaper is that some brands have trial/travel sizes. I've also gotten some partially used products for cheap from hair FB groups for buying/selling/exchanging hair products. (I'm not a fan of FB, but have used it purely for access to certain groups and the marketplace.)

 

Travel size would be nice but they seem hard to find here in Germany.

[Alanna]

5 minutes ago, Harriet said:

Travel size would be nice but they seem hard to find here in Germany.

 

It seems really brand specific, too, unfortunately. Sometimes you can buy packs of small versions of a few different products. Exchanges might be the way to go if you can find a group - lots of other people do a lot of experimenting, too! 

 

I'll also add that at least for my hair, products that don't work right now are sometimes good at different times of year (e.g. due to humidity changes) or when my hair is in a different condition. Plus the application approach matters, as Scaly Freak said, and can take some time to figure out. So if a product kinda works, it can be worth holding on to it and trying it out at different times. 

 

 

[Harriet]

Just now, Alanna said:

It seems really brand specific, too, unfortunately. Sometimes you can buy packs of small versions of a few different products. Exchanges might be the way to go if you can find a group - lots of other people do a lot of experimenting, too! 

 

I'll also add that at least for my hair, products that don't work right now are sometimes good at different times of year (e.g. due to humidity changes) or when my hair is in a different condition. Plus the application approach matters, as Scaly Freak said, and can take some time to figure out. So if a product kinda works, it can be worth holding on to it and trying it out at different times.

The other good thing is it doesn't take me that many uses to go through one bottle of conditioner because I'm all ends. A travel sized bottle might be enough for one use 🙃

[Scaly Freak]

27 minutes ago, Harriet said:

Thank you! I have found a similar site for germany that sells lots and lots and lots of cosmetics and beauty products. I have checked out a few of the brands you mentioned. Other people also seem to mention kerastase and loreal profesionnel in the same bracket. The number of products is still overwhelming but I will work through them and figure out what I need. I suspect there is a lot of overlap between products and I don't need *everything* (mask! leave in conditioner! air dry cream! detangling spray! serum!). I will stay away from "volume" and maybe look at the "frizz" and "damage" categories.

 

The brands I rattled off earlier are among the ones that hair salons in the  US tend to carry, so that's what I used to sell and thus what I know. Kerastase and L'Oreal Professional are solid brands, but they tend to slip my mind because I have no personal experience with them. In fact, any brand owned by L'Oreal (and there are many!) can be trusted to have research backing their products, because that company spends a fortune on that side of the business.

 

Want to make things more confusing? 🤪

 

At the core of everything, there is a very small number of actually different hair products, far smaller than the number of product names out there. A mask is a deep conditioner. A leave-in conditioner is a detangler. A detangling spray is a leave-in treatment. A serum is a form of leave-in conditioner.  And so on. The purpose of the large number of different names is to give a hint to what they product  is intended to do - treatments ,conditioners, and serums, are not for styling, so they will impact the general texture and behavior of your hair, but that's it. Creams have styling properties, and a lot of air dry creams will allow you to air dry your hair in specific styles, often with more defined waves and curls than if you had air dried your hair without the product.

 

Based on what you've said about your hair, I agree, volumizing products are not going to work well. In fact, they make increase how much your hair tangles. De-frizzing and smoothing products sound like a better fit to me. 

 

Last thought on this: If you are able and comfortable with going to a store that specializes in styling products, like a hair salon or a Sephora, asking for recommendations is a great way to get started. The people who work in these stores should be able to make good recommendations to you. You are not obligated to buy from them just because they help you, but of course they will appreciate if you do.  

[KB Girl]

Okay I've skimmed over all the hair talk (my solution for all hair problems is to just tie it up into a bun and my only criteria for shampoo is that it's plastic free ), but it sounds like you're doing really well Harriet, glad to read it

Will you be sharing sketches next challenge?

[Harriet]

12 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

At the core of everything, there is a very small number of actually different hair products, far smaller than the number of product names out there. A mask is a deep conditioner. A leave-in conditioner is a detangler. A detangling spray is a leave-in treatment. A serum is a form of leave-in conditioner.  And so on. The purpose of the large number of different names is to give a hint to what they product  is intended to do - treatments ,conditioners, and serums, are not for styling, so they will impact the general texture and behavior of your hair, but that's it. Creams have styling properties, and a lot of air dry creams will allow you to air dry your hair in specific styles, often with more defined waves and curls than if you had air dried your hair without the product.

 

I think this might actually make it less confusing, because don't need everything. Probably just one or maximum two things other than shampoo/conditioner. I'm thinking definitely a spray with detangling potential. And possibly a cream/gel or mousse for minimising frizz while air drying. I am now prepared to choose something. Thank you kindly for the advice.

 

12 hours ago, Scaly Freak said:

Based on what you've said about your hair, I agree, volumizing products are not going to work well. In fact, they make increase how much your hair tangles. De-frizzing and smoothing products sound like a better fit to me. 

 

Last thought on this: If you are able and comfortable with going to a store that specializes in styling products, like a hair salon or a Sephora, asking for recommendations is a great way to get started. The people who work in these stores should be able to make good recommendations to you. You are not obligated to buy from them just because they help you, but of course they will appreciate if you do.  

 

I don't there's anything like that in Germany. There are department stores. The high end ones do have people at the perfume and makeup counters offering advice, but they're really there to help you choose from their product line.

 

11 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Okay I've skimmed over all the hair talk (my solution for all hair problems is to just tie it up into a bun and my only criteria for shampoo is that it's plastic free ), but it sounds like you're doing really well Harriet, glad to read it

Will you be sharing sketches next challenge?

Plastic free? Shampoos have plastic in them? Do I need to know about this, is it a thing I should also consider? But no, no more hair talk. Although your hair looks lovely whenever you post photos. Admirable curl ❤️

Thank you, I think I am indeed doing well. I might not share the sketches because they're not very exciting. At the moment, for example, we're practicing gesture, which does not really create beautiful finished drawings. It would be like filming and showing you my stretches and warm up sets with just the bar 😊

[Mad Hatter]

19 minutes ago, Harriet said:

Thank you, I think I am indeed doing well. I might not share the sketches because they're not very exciting. At the moment, for example, we're practicing gesture, which does not really create beautiful finished drawings. It would be like filming and showing you my stretches and warm up sets with just the bar 😊

Oh I don't know about that! Gesture drawing, especially for animation, can be super fun!

[KB Girl]

26 minutes ago, Harriet said:

 It would be like filming and showing you my stretches and warm up sets with just the bar 😊

 Could be interesting  

[Scaly Freak]

7 hours ago, Harriet said:

I'm thinking definitely a spray with detangling potential. And possibly a cream/gel or mousse for minimising frizz while air drying. I am now prepared to choose something. Thank you kindly for the advice.

 

If you're set on a detangling spray, look for the Biolage Air Dry Glotion, or the Matrix Total Results Miracle Creator. Spray generously on wet hair, right after squeezing out the excess water, comb through with fingers or other implement to distribute the product evenly, and then leave them alone. I'd even suggest that you hold off on buying a second product until you see what effect an air dry spray has on your hair. You may not need anything else.  

[Harriet]

8 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Oh I don't know about that! Gesture drawing, especially for animation, can be super fun!

 

8 hours ago, KB Girl said:

 Could be interesting  

 

Lol you wanna see my stick figures? 😛

 

46 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

If you're set on a detangling spray, look for the Biolage Air Dry Glotion, or the Matrix Total Results Miracle Creator. Spray generously on wet hair, right after squeezing out the excess water, comb through with fingers or other implement to distribute the product evenly, and then leave them alone. I'd even suggest that you hold off on buying a second product until you see what effect an air dry spray has on your hair. You may not need anything else.  

Thank you! But alas! neither of those are available here.

 

It was hard picking something because the products are listed by problem and I don't think I have a problem? My hair tangles because it's very, very long, not because it's dry or damaged. It frizzes because it's slightly wavy, more so when it's short. My only problem would be how much damned hair comes out when I brush it (not that it ever seems to get any more sparse as a result) and there's no shampoo for that (but gosh, apparently people are saying the product I'm currently using--ogx--can cause shedding. flip?!?!). Anyway, I went with redken. I was very tempted by the "all-soft" (too moisturising?) and by the "extreme length" (amino acids? is that bad for undamaged hair?), but went for the anti-frizz set (I'm not super convinced shampoo will do anything except cleaning but that's fine, I like fancy products that tell me fancy lies), a miracle does-everything spray and a detangling cream. When I've used them up I'll try different ones. I figure my priorities should be finding a balanced shampoo & conditioner set (not too drying, not too heavy) and reducing friction with satin pillowcases, gentle brushing, protective styles, and the detangling spray to prevent brushing damage.

 

P.S. Glotion sounds incredible and is my new favourite word

 

P.P.S. Somebody should give Snape a makeover (glow-up as the young people say?) and rename him the glotionmaster. 

[Scaly Freak]

39 minutes ago, Harriet said:

It was hard picking something because the products are listed by problem and I don't think I have a problem? My hair tangles because it's very, very long, not because it's dry or damaged. It frizzes because it's slightly wavy, more so when it's short. 

 

The beauty industry refers to everything that isn't perfection as a "problem". That way, you feel bad about it and desperate to fix it, so you become more likely to buy their products. Tangling and frizzing are things that become irritating and can cause damage to the hair in the long run, so it's something I personally prefer to prevent, because I like the appearance of my hair when it is smooth and frizz free. But I don't consider them a problem unless they make my hair unmanageable to the point it interferes with my quality of life.

 

But don't let the word "problem" distract you. They're using that word to make you feel bad about your appearance and become dependent on their products, and that's not how it's supped to work. You're supposed to use hair products, and discard them as you see fit, with no emotional investment except whether you like them or not. Like with workout routines.  

 

44 minutes ago, Harriet said:

My only problem would be how much damned hair comes out when I brush it (not that it ever seems to get any more sparse as a result) and there's no shampoo for that (but gosh, apparently people are saying the product I'm currently using--ogx--can cause shedding. flip?!?!).

 

Well, yeah, healthy human beings shed because cutting off the hair strand and letting it fall is the very end of the growth phase for the individual hair. This is completely normal.

 

Yes, there are products that can cause increased shedding, and typically there are two main reasons for that. The first is that your hair is breaking off because it's suffering extensive mechanical damage every day. The second is that your follicles are under considerable stress and the hairs they produce are so frail that it breaks off if you look at it the wrong way, or your follicles are under so much stress that they're cutting off hair strands before they should and not growing new ones.  The second reason can be caused by harsh products making contact with the scalp, or by products that make contact with the scalp and leave a lot of residue behind.

 

50 minutes ago, Harriet said:

I was very tempted by the "all-soft" (too moisturising?) and by the "extreme length" (amino acids? is that bad for undamaged hair?), but went for the anti-frizz set (I'm not super convinced shampoo will do anything except cleaning but that's fine, I like fancy products that tell me fancy lies), a miracle does-everything spray and a detangling cream.

 

Shampoo does little more than just cleaning, this is true, but there are tons of ways of cleaning, and several of them can actually cause hair issues.

 

An overly effective shampoo that cleans away everything can make your hair more frail and frizzy, because it strips away the hair's natural protection and dries out your scalp (this is the hair version of scrubbing your skin too hard when washing your body). So yes, it very much matters which shampoo you use, to the point where using one that is an excellent fit for your hair and is geared towards reducing frizz, could reduce the need for additional styling products to manage the frizz.

 

I personally don't care for Redken's styling products because I don't like how they smell, but their product quality is solid, and their shampoos and conditioners are among the best on the market, so if you like them, you have now found your hair products  

 

56 minutes ago, Harriet said:

I figure my priorities should be finding a balanced shampoo & conditioner set (not too drying, not too heavy) and reducing friction with satin pillowcases, gentle brushing, protective styles, and the detangling spray to prevent brushing damage.

 

You figure correctly. Over 90% of hair damage is because of friction caused by the person wearing the hair, and you are also correct that finding the best shampoo and conditioners for your hair are the foundation and start of a good routine. Using the right conditioner will reduce how much detangling spray you need to use, and how often, for example.

[Mad Hatter]

5 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

The beauty industry refers to everything that isn't perfection as a "problem". That way, you feel bad about it and desperate to fix it, so you become more likely to buy their products.

I absolutely hate this.

 

Are there any brands/products/ingredients that you'd universally avoid?

 

1 hour ago, Harriet said:

Lol you wanna see my stick figures? 😛

LOL all I'm saying that stick figures when done really well can be awesome too! Warm up exercises are interesting too, but I completely understand if you don't fancy sharing them.

[Harriet]

13 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

The beauty industry refers to everything that isn't perfection as a "problem". That way, you feel bad about it and desperate to fix it, so you become more likely to buy their products. Tangling and frizzing are things that become irritating and can cause damage to the hair in the long run, so it's something I personally prefer to prevent, because I like the appearance of my hair when it is smooth and frizz free. But I don't consider them a problem unless they make my hair unmanageable to the point it interferes with my quality of life.

 

But don't let the word "problem" distract you. They're using that word to make you feel bad about your appearance and become dependent on their products, and that's not how it's supped to work. You're supposed to use hair products, and discard them as you see fit, with no emotional investment except whether you like them or not. Like with workout routines.  

 

None of the product lines are for tangling, which would be my first priority. But I assumed that the frizz ones would work for that since they make smooooth.

 

13 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

Well, yeah, healthy human beings shed because cutting off the hair strand and letting it fall is the very end of the growth phase for the individual hair. This is completely normal.

 

Yes, there are products that can cause increased shedding, and typically there are two main reasons for that. The first is that your hair is breaking off because it's suffering extensive mechanical damage every day. The second is that your follicles are under considerable stress and the hairs they produce are so frail that it breaks off if you look at it the wrong way, or your follicles are under so much stress that they're cutting off hair strands before they should and not growing new ones.  The second reason can be caused by harsh products making contact with the scalp, or by products that make contact with the scalp and leave a lot of residue behind.

 

It's probably just normal shedding then. It just looks like a lot because it's long I guess.

 

13 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

Shampoo does little more than just cleaning, this is true, but there are tons of ways of cleaning, and several of them can actually cause hair issues.

 

An overly effective shampoo that cleans away everything can make your hair more frail and frizzy, because it strips away the hair's natural protection and dries out your scalp (this is the hair version of scrubbing your skin too hard when washing your body). So yes, it very much matters which shampoo you use, to the point where using one that is an excellent fit for your hair and is geared towards reducing frizz, could reduce the need for additional styling products to manage the frizz.

 

I personally don't care for Redken's styling products because I don't like how they smell, but their product quality is solid, and their shampoos and conditioners are among the best on the market, so if you like them, you have now found your hair products  

 

Ooh, smell is important though. That's okay, I'm going to use these up and try new ones. There are several promising things I'd like to try.

 

13 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

You figure correctly. Over 90% of hair damage is because of friction caused by the person wearing the hair, and you are also correct that finding the best shampoo and conditioners for your hair are the foundation and start of a good routine. Using the right conditioner will reduce how much detangling spray you need to use, and how often, for example.

Excellent, excellent. Glory awaits.

[Scaly Freak]

2 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Are there any brands/products/ingredients that you'd universally avoid?

 

The cheap ones, but that's because working in a hair salon made me a product snob.

 

Actually, at this point in my life I am all about using fragrance free shampoo  and conditioners, because fragrance and essential oils are ingredients that can cause skin irritation. I have sensitive skin, which becomes considerably more sensitive when I am under stress, and the past couple of years have been very stressful. Scalp eczema is not an experience I care to repeat, thank you.

 

2 hours ago, Harriet said:

None of the product lines are for tangling, which would be my first priority. 

 

That would be the all-soft one, actually. I've used it on my own fine hair and didn't find it overly heavy, but this was when I washed my hair a lot more often, so I am not entirely sure how my hair would handle day 3 or 4 of all-soft conditioner.  As I recall that conditioner smelled divine though, so there is that.

[Harriet]

56 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

 

The cheap ones, but that's because working in a hair salon made me a product snob.

 

Actually, at this point in my life I am all about using fragrance free shampoo  and conditioners, because fragrance and essential oils are ingredients that can cause skin irritation. I have sensitive skin, which becomes considerably more sensitive when I am under stress, and the past couple of years have been very stressful. Scalp eczema is not an experience I care to repeat, thank you.

 

Can you get high quality fragrance free hair care? I would be very interested in that.

 

56 minutes ago, Scaly Freak said:

That would be the all-smooth one, actually. I've used it on my own fine hair and didn't find it overly heavy, but this was when I washed my hair a lot more often, so I am not entirely sure how my hair would handle day 3 or 4 of all-smooth conditioner.  As I recall that conditioner smelled divine though, so there is that.

 

Ohhhh. Soft. Right. It can also go on the to try list.

[Mad Hatter]

1 hour ago, Scaly Freak said:

Scalp eczema is not an experience I care to repeat, thank you.

That sounds awful.😬

[Mad Hatter]

1 hour ago, Scaly Freak said:

That would be the all-smooth one, actually.

Would this be the same for curly hair?

[Scaly Freak]

34 minutes ago, Harriet said:

Can you get high quality fragrance free hair care? I would be very interested in that.

 

Yes. I use the fragrance free option from Function of Beauty. They ship internationally, but I don't know if they have facilities in Europe to ship from, or not. Fair warning - they are not outrageously expensive, but they are not cheap either.

 

21 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

Would this be the same for curly hair?

 

I'm not sure sure that would be a good fit. A lot of smoothing shampoos have a relaxing effect on waves and curls, and also makes the hair a little heavier. When the goal is to make the hair lay smooth, this is desired. If your hair is naturally curly, not so much.

 

I would look at shampoos and conditioners made for curly hair, and go from there.