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Alanna Rings in the New Year


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5 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

Well depending on how bad it is, if you're doing one arm pull-ups on one side only then maybe it's worth dealing with it. :D

Haha or you can just brag that you can do a one-arm pull-up and not mention that it's only on one side! Channel your inner fiddler crab:

 

Crab-claw.gif

 

7 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

Another thing to consider though is that since most people are right handed, including route setters, climbs will often get slightly biased too!

Huh, does that mean there is a slight tendency for left handed climbers to do better on routes set by left handed people and vice versa (assuming the setter doesn't correct for their bias)?  

 

Thanks for the different perspective! 

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45 minutes ago, Alanna said:

I would refer that question to someone who has done more pull-ups and climbing! But for some basic troubleshooting/brainstorming - I would try to figure out if it's a motor issue (i.e., you've learned to bend one arm first) or a strength issue (one arm is stronger). Possible strategies could be working at some lighter "weights"/easier progressions that still involve a similar movement and doing related unilateral work. I'm not sure what those exercises would be, though - dropping exercise difficulty to work on form is easier when it's a barbell! @KB Girl @Mad Hatter any suggestions?

I suspect it is a strength issue; I will just keep on doing negatives and leg-assisted pull ups, for both strength and motor control.

 

29 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

This would be my suggestion too, dropping the difficulty and focusing on movement, both on and off the wall. Even if you strengthen it unilaterally you still have to apply the new strength to the wall to break the habit. Unfortunately I don't know any specific drills for this but I think simply paying attention to good shoulder positioning during warm ups would be a decent start. A tension board could be a pretty useful tool if you're strong enough and have access to one. Another thing to consider though is that since most people are right handed, including route setters, climbs will often get slightly biased too! A little bit of asymmetry is to be expected and I wouldn't get toooo fixated on it. Well depending on how bad it is, if you're doing one arm pull-ups on one side only then maybe it's worth dealing with it. :D 

I will not be climbing for the forseeable future due to lockdowns. All indoors sports facilities are closed, and it looks like nothing will re-open for the next 1-??? months. I'm extremely right-handed, also in my climbing. I try to focus a little bit during warming up for climbing, since I have a strong tendency to have my right side glued to the wall, but never the left. I have climbed so little in the past two years that I'm at the point again where I'm not sure if climbing is worth it, or if I should e.g. become a member of @KB Girl's gym (which is also closer than the climbing gym). At the moment, I just want to become strong and athletic in general :lol:.

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11 minutes ago, Alanna said:

Haha or you can just brag that you can do a one-arm pull-up and not mention that it's only on one side! Channel your inner fiddler crab:

Exactly. :D 

 

11 minutes ago, Alanna said:

Huh, does that mean there is a slight tendency for left handed climbers to do better on routes set by left handed people and vice versa (assuming the setter doesn't correct for their bias)?  

 

Honestly I doubt it'd be directly noticeable as it also depends on the route setter's style/preferences/strengths/weaknesses/mood/energy on the day!

 

12 minutes ago, Alanna said:

Thanks for the different perspective! 

I'm not sure if it's really that much of a different perspective! The same principles still apply, it just gets a little fuzzier and difficult to measure the more complex a movement is. But you're still dealing with strength/power/endurance/peaking/deload cycles, general strength training vs sports specific movement/technique practice vs accessories and all that. If you want to that is. The big difference to me is that with lifting you start considering these things very early, while with climbing the first few years are typically for learning movement - messing around and experimenting and climbing lots of volume and styles. Until then it's a waste of recovery to add in additional training or complicate the training. For many people at least, of course it depends on where you're starting from.

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3 minutes ago, Waanie said:

I will not be climbing for the forseeable future due to lockdowns. All indoors sports facilities are closed, and it looks like nothing will re-open for the next 1-??? months. I'm extremely right-handed, also in my climbing. I try to focus a little bit during warming up for climbing, since I have a strong tendency to have my right side glued to the wall, but never the left. I have climbed so little in the past two years that I'm at the point again where I'm not sure if climbing is worth it, or if I should e.g. become a member of @KB Girl's gym (which is also closer than the climbing gym). At the moment, I just want to become strong and athletic in general :lol:.

Shame. :( I'd say it's absolutely worth it, but being a member of @KB Girl's gym sounds amazing. :D They even have a teeeeeny climbing wall. 

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@Waanie you should obviously come train with us 😁

but for troubleshooting your pullup progress id first check to see if you’re doing your negatives and leg assisted with proper shoulder positioning, so ehm, down into your back pockets- as far away from your ears as possible. Usually when people fix this then any pulling with one arm first goes away. 
As a rule of thumbs for ladies if your negative can last for 30 seconds you should be strong enough for a ‘real’ one. 

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2 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

Shame. :( I'd say it's absolutely worth it, but being a member of @KB Girl's gym sounds amazing. :D They even have a teeeeeny climbing wall. 

5 minutes ago, KB Girl said:

@Waanie you should obviously come train with us 😁

At this point I just don't know yet what I want to do exercise-wise after covid. I don't want to start something new when I know I'll likely have to stop again after a few months, but starting climbing over and over again is also starting to get frustrating. For now I'll keep doing bodyweight strength training at home ;).

 

7 minutes ago, KB Girl said:

but for troubleshooting your pullup progress id first check to see if you’re doing your negatives and leg assisted with proper shoulder positioning, so ehm, down into your back pockets- as far away from your ears as possible. Usually when people fix this then any pulling with one arm first goes away. 
As a rule of thumbs for ladies if your negative can last for 30 seconds you should be strong enough for a ‘real’ one. 

Thanks! I'm not close to a 30s negative yet, more like 10s, so I still have some strength to gain. And from the top of my head I think that you are right about should positioning as well; especially during negatives I am not mindful of them at all. Something to look out for on Friday :D.

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6 minutes ago, KB Girl said:

but for troubleshooting your pullup progress id first check to see if you’re doing your negatives and leg assisted with proper shoulder positioning, so ehm, down into your back pockets- as far away from your ears as possible. Usually when people fix this then any pulling with one arm first goes away. 

Curious what your take is on this - there's been a looot of talk about this cue in the pole/circus community and how it's not always that great of a cue, at least not for hanging or inverts. The reasoning is that if you try and "force" this your shoulder blades can't rotate properly => impingement. I'm thinking that if you're not strong in that range it's probably a decent cue as you won't be strong enough to force it, but could it be more problematic with stronger athletes? 

 

11 minutes ago, KB Girl said:

As a rule of thumbs for ladies if your negative can last for 30 seconds you should be strong enough for a ‘real’ one. 

This was exactly true for me.

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58 minutes ago, Waanie said:

I will not be climbing for the forseeable future due to lockdowns. All indoors sports facilities are closed, and it looks like nothing will re-open for the next 1-??? months. I'm extremely right-handed, also in my climbing. I try to focus a little bit during warming up for climbing, since I have a strong tendency to have my right side glued to the wall, but never the left. I have climbed so little in the past two years that I'm at the point again where I'm not sure if climbing is worth it, or if I should e.g. become a member of @KB Girl's gym (which is also closer than the climbing gym). At the moment, I just want to become strong and athletic in general :lol:.

 

Ah in that case the solution to your particular form/strength issue is simple - go to a gym with lots of people who are experienced in that movement and get in person advice! I jest, but in-person support and training with like-minded people is a huge help. I am jealous you are so close to such a cool gym, too! It's understandable that you want to wait until lockdowns have stopped, though, so don't have the same constant start-stop problem with a new discipline.

 

I understand what you mean about going back to an old hobby that requires a large time and energy investment - I don't even want to think about how much time it would take for me to rebuild my powerlifting strength. The good news is that if you do return to it, 1) you already have some idea of what works for you, so you can be more efficient in returning to your previous level, and 2) your body should adapt more quickly since it's already learned the skill once. That said, starting something different can a lot of fun, and is the tactic I'm taking because I want to feel like I'm learning something new, not just going in circles, and because I have different goals now than I did 5 years ago. If you do go back to climbing down the road, you'll also benefit from the strength and control you developed from other training modalities.

 

Also, I really like that my thread is turning into a programming/technique/progression discussion - my knowledge is largely limited to particular issues I've had, so I learn a lot when other people ask questions :) 

 

55 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

I'm not sure if it's really that much of a different perspective!

I would not have mentioned different climbing apparatuses for a start! But yes, the general principles apply to most (all?) fitness disciplines.

 

 

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Just now, Alanna said:

Confession: I finished Elements at 6:02 pm today (6:05 if you count the notes I took after for the "Ponder" part) after a work meeting ran over and I went with a 30 minute (+ tutorials) GMB session anyway. Can I still give myself a Kibeth bell??

Yes you can! You would have finished on time if you'd do the 15  minute workout or rushed through it, which is both not what you want. Having said that, do you have a plan the next time a work meeting looks like it will run over?

 

8 minutes ago, Alanna said:

Ah in that case the solution to your particular form/strength issue is simple - go to a gym with lots of people who are experienced in that movement and get in person advice! I jest, but in-person support and training with like-minded people is a huge help. I am jealous you are so close to such a cool gym, too! It's understandable that you want to wait until lockdowns have stopped, though, so don't have the same constant start-stop problem with a new discipline.

The area has lots of cool exercise-things. Other things that I'm considering are adult gymnastics, parkour-like things and several kinds of dance. But yeah, I've been considering this almost since the start of covid (climbing partner moving away, having sufficiently recovered from my PhD to start something new), but there's soooo many lockdowns, which has been way exhausting mentally as well. Climbing is a bit far away, and they are really lax with covid regulations, which also doesn't help.

 

17 minutes ago, Alanna said:

Also, I really like that my thread is turning into a programming/technique/progression discussion - my knowledge is largely limited to particular issues I've had, so I learn a lot when other people ask questions :) 

I really like it as well! I had forgotten how much fun NF can actually be :D.

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2 hours ago, Mad Hatter said:

Curious what your take is on this - there's been a looot of talk about this cue in the pole/circus community and how it's not always that great of a cue, at least not for hanging or inverts. The reasoning is that if you try and "force" this your shoulder blades can't rotate properly => impingement. I'm thinking that if you're not strong in that range it's probably a decent cue as you won't be strong enough to force it, but could it be more problematic with stronger athletes? 

That sounds very odd to me because impingement (to my knowledge and in my experience) happens when your shoulders are rolled forward, which is where you can’t rotate properly either. When you’ve packed your shoulders away (tuck in backpocket/away from ears).. ehm I think it’s called a depressed shoulder in English? (With a little bit of retraction- but never cue for that because it doesn’t work) That’s the ideal position for rotation, where you have the most freedom of movement. 
So yea id think forcing it is exactly what you want almost anywhere? An exception would perhaps be a German hang (skin the cat) but the main cue there is relaxing the shoulder anyway. 

Depression for ring training is actually one of the factors that make it translate so well to powerlifting- it’s often the weak factor in deadlift and even bench. 
Same goes for overhead work btw, people who have impingement there always need to work on properly setting their shoulder blades. It’s one of the things I fix most often for consulting kettlebell athletes :) 
 

1 hour ago, Waanie said:

but there's soooo many lockdowns, which has been way exhausting mentally as well.

I can’t properly explain this to people how hard it has been completely revamping our work schedule and way of working this many times, I’m exhausted by it. Not to mention the financial stressor. 

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5 hours ago, Alanna said:

By the way, do you have a challenge this time around?

No, I think I'm going to do a battle log for now. Haven't put it together yet.

 

5 hours ago, Alanna said:

these general strategies could probably take you several years into training, and you don't need to apply them all at once

 

Good. I'm still evaluating my workouts - for now, incorporating GMB locomotion is keeping them interesting and difficult. I'm working with resistance bands (tubes, mostly) and bodyweight exercises. I began work on hollow body holds today to prep for moving beyond side planks eventually. Wow, they were amazingly hard! I plan to list the equipment I have to work with as part of my battle log, as well as an overview of how my current workouts are structured. I have a pretty good resource in the Academy, and of course the blog.

 

Thanks for taking an interest! In my case, it sounds like the info you're sharing is best used as foundation knowledge for the future. My brain likes to know "why" and "how", so it's beneficial to read about the thinking behind various programming practices, and to know I'll have options when the time comes. I've never thought about programming much yet. So this is neat.

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8 hours ago, KB Girl said:

I can’t properly explain this to people how hard it has been completely revamping our work schedule and way of working this many times, I’m exhausted by it. Not to mention the financial stressor. 

Yes! It also depends on the person, so while the changes for me seem relatively small (working from home vs the office vs hybrid), my autism makes every change exhausting. I can't imagine what I'd have done in your situation.

 

8 hours ago, KB Girl said:

That’s the ideal position for rotation, where you have the most freedom of movement. 

I had never realised this, but now that I'm trying it out, you seem right :). The cue that I typically use for this is to roll my shoulders backwards and stop just before the end. I've also heard the cue "as if you are carrying heavy suitcases" at ballroomdancing.

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10 hours ago, Alanna said:

Confession: I finished Elements at 6:02 pm today (6:05 if you count the notes I took after for the "Ponder" part) after a work meeting ran over and I went with a 30 minute (+ tutorials) GMB session anyway. Can I still give myself a Kibeth bell??


I thought you just had to do a GMB workout for Kibeth? Is not the workout done?

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2 hours ago, Harriet said:

I thought you just had to do a GMB workout for Kibeth? Is not the workout done?

 

You know my challenge better than I do - that should have been Ranna/Mosrael. My tired brain focused on "I finished Elements late" rather than "I finished Elements late." That's what I get for giving my goals complicated names 😆

 

I would make a terrible Abhorsen - I'd try to send the Dead to sleep and make them dance a jig instead.

 

Playstation 4 Game GIF by Naughty Dog

 

12 hours ago, Waanie said:

Yes you can! You would have finished on time if you'd do the 15  minute workout or rushed through it, which is both not what you want. Having said that, do you have a plan the next time a work meeting looks like it will run over?

 

 

Exactly! I don't want the goal to encourage bad habits. I also don't want the same issue I had with binary sleep goals - if I'm 2 minutes late, might as well stay up 2 hours late!

 

I think I've allow myself a small, undefined grace period for Elements (but not work). That said, I have been finishing veeeery close to my cut-off most days, and I don't want the new grace period to become the new finishing time, so I'll still report any lateness and keep a running total for the week.

 

This meeting was supposed to end a lot earlier, but we found a possible issue at the end and the student I was talking to was also a little stressed so I didn't want to cut it off early. If I have a meeting that's going to end close to 5, I'll try to do my workout sometime beforehand instead. 

 

so on that note...

 

Week 1,  Wednesday

 

🔔🔔🔔🔔◻️◻️◻️ [Ranna/Mosrael - routine]

🔔🔔◻️🔔◻️◻️◻️ [Kibeth - GMB Elements]

🔔🔔🔔🔔◻️◻️◻️ [Dyrim - posting]

🔔◻️◻️◻️◻️◻️◻️ [Belgaer - fitness goals and programming]

🔔🔔🔔🔔◻️◻️◻️ [Saraneth - no sugar]

 

*Elements ran 5 min over on Wednesday

 

Elements was A-frame and Bear again yesterday. My hamstrings are super tight! There was an A-frame to squat transition that was interesting to play with, especially since my squat mobility is much better than my A-frame mobility (which was different than the example they showed in the video). So I go from not being able to put my heels on the ground in A-frame to easily doing so in the squat. Bear was fun - I like taking some big steps. Just need to resist the urge to sway from side to side pretending I'm some lumbering giant animal.

 

tumblr_ppsb46U0ga1swtfnl_500.gifv

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12 hours ago, Waanie said:

The area has lots of cool exercise-things. Other things that I'm considering are adult gymnastics, parkour-like things and several kinds of dance. But yeah, I've been considering this almost since the start of covid (climbing partner moving away, having sufficiently recovered from my PhD to start something new), but there's soooo many lockdowns, which has been way exhausting mentally as well. Climbing is a bit far away, and they are really lax with covid regulations, which also doesn't help.

 

 

I can see why deciding your next endeavour will be the hard part! You have some nice things to look forward to once things finally open up again (and stay open).

 

11 hours ago, KB Girl said:

I can’t properly explain this to people how hard it has been completely revamping our work schedule and way of working this many times, I’m exhausted by it. Not to mention the financial stressor. 

That must be really stressful - is your government helping on the financial side at least?

 

8 hours ago, Emissary2Ornj said:

No, I think I'm going to do a battle log for now. Haven't put it together yet.

 

 

I will keep an eye out for it! 

 

8 hours ago, Emissary2Ornj said:

Thanks for taking an interest! In my case, it sounds like the info you're sharing is best used as foundation knowledge for the future. My brain likes to know "why" and "how", so it's beneficial to read about the thinking behind various programming practices, and to know I'll have options when the time comes. I've never thought about programming much yet. So this is neat.

 

Exactly - it really helps evaluate different programmes, figure out why particular ones work well for you at different points in time, and make small adaptations (and eventually write your own programme) down the line. I'm the same way - I like to know the reasoning behind something. 

 

 

The shoulder/lats discussion has been interesting - my NF block is about to start, so I'll join in this evening :)

 

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3 hours ago, Waanie said:

It also depends on the person, so while the changes for me seem relatively small (working from home vs the office vs hybrid), my autism makes every change exhausting. I can't imagine what I'd have done in your situation.

Yea that’s why I thought you’d understand better than most 🙏🏻 We’ll survive I’m sure. 
 

30 minutes ago, Alanna said:
11 hours ago, KB Girl said:

 

That must be really stressful - is your government helping on the financial side at least?

Unfortunately we seem to constantly fall outside of all arrangements. 
 

21 minutes ago, Epsilonte said:

 

Shoulder/lat-discussion: I just saw this post this morning: https://www.instagram.com/p/CYXhw3-J02l/ And at least from my perspective it makes a lot of sense. 

Maybe that’s what @Mad Hatter meant as well? It seems like a complete straw man situation to me.. but maybe there really are people who cue down and back? A properly set shoulder will not irritate your rotator cuff, but when you cue down and back it will not properly set. It seems a bad idea to do any pulling with a not properly set shoulder, doesn’t matter when exactly you initiate. 
Also I haven’t met anyone who can set their shoulder like that and then go into a pull-up. 

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Current challenge: KB Girl's next turning of the wheel

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3 hours ago, Waanie said:

had never realised this, but now that I'm trying it out, you seem right :). The cue that I typically use for this is to roll my shoulders backwards and stop just before the end. I've also heard the cue "as if you are carrying heavy suitcases" at ballroomdancing.

That last cue seems right, I’m not sure about the first, I imagine it might bring the shoulder a little bit too far back. Then again, the ballroom dancing part might do that too? Just scratch the back part of it all. 

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Current challenge: KB Girl's next turning of the wheel

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4 minutes ago, KB Girl said:

but when you cue down and back it will not properly set.

I think this is the problem with aerial sports... A lot of the cues there are "down and back", coming from ballett where you want a long neck for pretty lines or whatever. xD When all you want for pole and stuff is "engage your lat and shoulders"... I know hardly any pole dancers without shoulder injuries and I think that "down and back" all the time might have something to do with it. 

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22 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Depression for ring training is actually one of the factors that make it translate so well to powerlifting- it’s often the weak factor in deadlift and even bench. 

 

14 hours ago, Waanie said:

I had never realised this, but now that I'm trying it out, you seem right :). The cue that I typically use for this is to roll my shoulders backwards and stop just before the end. I've also heard the cue "as if you are carrying heavy suitcases" at ballroomdancing.

 

10 hours ago, Epsilonte said:

I think this is the problem with aerial sports... A lot of the cues there are "down and back", coming from ballett where you want a long neck for pretty lines or whatever. xD When all you want for pole and stuff is "engage your lat and shoulders"... I know hardly any pole dancers without shoulder injuries and I think that "down and back" all the time might have something to do with it. 

 

I was thinking that this pull-up set-up was probably related to the same/similar movement in bench and deadlift. Interestingly, it's usually frame as setting/packing your lats, not shoulders, for lifting. 

 

When you talk about the shoulder cues, are those for shoulders in the more colloquial sense (i.e., tops of your arms - where you'd touch for the "head, shoulders, knees and toes" song), or shoulder blades (the upper back part of shoulders)?

 

In the interest of comparing, a couple of the cues I've heard for powerlifting are

 

1) "break the bar" (for bench)

Spoiler

 

This cue took me ages to understand because I thought people meant "break the bar" in a different direction 😆. I had to read about "external shoulder rotation" before it clicked.

 

2) "protect your armpits" for deadlift

 

Spoiler

 

 

But protecting your armpits is a tougher if your arms are above your head!

10 hours ago, Epsilonte said:

Shoulder/lat-discussion: I just saw this post this morning: https://www.instagram.com/p/CYXhw3-J02l/ And at least from my perspective it makes a lot of sense. 

 

10 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Maybe that’s what @Mad Hatter meant as well? It seems like a complete straw man situation to me.. but maybe there really are people who cue down and back? A properly set shoulder will not irritate your rotator cuff, but when you cue down and back it will not properly set. It seems a bad idea to do any pulling with a not properly set shoulder, doesn’t matter when exactly you initiate. 
Also I haven’t met anyone who can set their shoulder like that and then go into a pull-up. 

Now I'm confused - I thought the pull should be initiated with your lats/backs? (and that's part of what scapular pulls are training?) 

 

On the subject of lats, did anyone else suddenly become aware of their lats after training? I remember a couple months or so after I started barbell training, I was driving and felt myself flex one of my lats (probably from external shoulder rotation while I had a hand on the wheel) and was super surprised and excited about the new muscle 😆

 

10 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Unfortunately we seem to constantly fall outside of all arrangements. 

I'm sorry 🙁. The UK government's current strategy seems to be advising people not to do certain things, but not officially locking down so they don't have to provide business with financial support. I hope you can safely reopen soon.

10 hours ago, Epsilonte said:

Why? Sounds like fun! :D

 

Haha indeed it would be fun for a "play" session! They suggest trying not to sway during crab, but I can't remember if they have said anything similar for bear.

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Week 1,  Thursday

 

🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔◻️◻️ [Ranna/Mosrael - routine]

🔔🔔◻️🔔◻️◻️◻️ [Kibeth - GMB Elements]

🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔◻️◻️ [Dyrim - posting]

🔔◻️◻️◻️◻️◻️◻️ [Belgaer - fitness goals and programming]

🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔◻️◻️ [Saraneth - no sugar]

 

*Elements ran 5 min over on Wednesday

 

Had another walk day because I'm super tired after an earlier start than I planned. Hopefully my body is just adjusting to the new schedule and not difficulty recovering from the new workouts. I think my more well-defined work and exercise hours are helping my sleep schedule, but I'm in the rough phase where I'm still having some late nights, adjusting to waking up earlier, and sometimes waking up too early too soon in the process of winding back my wake-up time. 

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52 minutes ago, Alanna said:

I was thinking that this pull-up set-up was probably related to the same/similar movement in bench and deadlift. Interestingly, it's usually frame as setting/packing your lats, not shoulders, for lifting. 

 

When you talk about the shoulder cues, are those for shoulders in the more colloquial sense (i.e., tops of your arms - where you'd touch for the "head, shoulders, knees and toes" song), or shoulder blades (the upper back part of shoulders)?

 

In the interest of comparing, a couple of the cues I've heard for powerlifting are

 

1) "break the bar" (for bench)

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This cue took me ages to understand because I thought people meant "break the bar" in a different direction 😆. I had to read about "external shoulder rotation" before it clicked.

 

2) "protect your armpits" for deadlift

 

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But protecting your armpits is a tougher if your arms are above your head!

Generally I don't like referring to specific muscles when cueing, usually people don't know where their lats are exactly and how they can even consciously do anything with them. So keeping it simple with body parts seems to work better.. when saying shoulders in this scenario I do just mean the whole thing. The top of your shoulders (from the head,shoulders,knees,toes) will go down and so will your shoulder blades. The thing you're looking for is for the shoulder blades to lie properly on the ribcage.. I guess that's what they're trying to achieve with those powerlifting cues too... that is what packing your lats sounds like. (funny thing, we use 'bend the bar' for deadlifts, not bench). 

 

Oh one of my favourite bench/pushup cues is to focus on straightening the elbows and not trying to push on the weight- it gives people beautiful shoulder positioning :) and a similar cue for (leg assisted) pullups, to  not try to pull yourself up but to try to pull your elbows down- also does wonders for the shoulder positioning. Especially combined with keeping your shoulders away from your ears. 

 

1 hour ago, Alanna said:

Now I'm confused - I thought the pull should be initiated with your lats/backs? (and that's part of what scapular pulls are training?) 

Ofcourse it should be.... not pulling shoulders down to initiate the movement seems like a sort of work around for people pulling the shoulders back (which they shouldn't), they won't be able to do that when they're already a third into the pullup.. but it seems a very silly solution to me when you could just break people of the shoulders back habit instead, teach them something useful... and not initiating with the shoulders down seems like an excellent way to get an elbow injury. 

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On 12/29/2021 at 5:02 PM, Scaly Freak said:

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