[Marauder]

Very exciting!  Thank heavens my husband loves to cook because I'm with you on not wanting to.  My lunches are literally whatever is a) leftover, b) edible in its current state, or c) absolute minimum effort.  We tried a meal service thing, but husband doesnt like to follow instructions/recipes.    How are your meals delivered to you?  Frozen?  Fresh?    Our oldest is moving out at the end of July and I'm picturing our grocery bill going way down.  Then again, inflation.

[Athaclena]

6 minutes ago, Marauder said:

We tried a meal service thing, but husband doesnt like to follow instructions/recipes. 

FWIW - I read them over and sometimes go "nah" and use the same ingredients and do something different.

For instance - hubby refused to eat meatloaf but loves meatballs. I'll look at instructions and go - that'd be better or still good but less effort to oven roast or oven fry. I've picked up a LOT of new tricks though - and now have some "go to sauces" for the nights I don't have a meal kit meal

[Marauder]

7 minutes ago, Athaclena said:

FWIW - I read them over and sometimes go "nah" and use the same ingredients and do something different.

For instance - hubby refused to eat meatloaf but loves meatballs. I'll look at instructions and go - that'd be better or still good but less effort to oven roast or oven fry. I've picked up a LOT of new tricks though - and now have some "go to sauces" for the nights I don't have a meal kit meal

 

I secretly suspect he did that anyway, but still complained about having to read during cooking.  🤣

[Countess D'If]

7 hours ago, Severine said:

Okay, first the daily update and then the big news. Today was pretty good. Did a lot of work, went for a slightly longer walk, avoided sugar. Sadly, I can't remember if I took my iron pill or not (system failure detected) and I suspect that I did not, but it's too late to take it now.

 

Okay, big exciting news!

 

If you read @fleaball's thread (and who doesn't? fools and charlatans) you may have seen me recommend a meal basket service I previously used, and my familiarity with such services is because I detest cooking and mostly avoid it at all costs including health, nutrition, and financial prudence. When I was single I ate a lot of toast, canned soup, and raw fruits and vegetables I could eat whole. The reasons why I hate cooking are a long story, but the short version is I spent many years as a kid/teen being 100% responsible for feeding my younger siblings and I have a lot of complicated feelings that have calcified into barnacles of loathing around any activity involving pots and pans.

 

L. likes to cook and is good at it, and used to cook a lot of our meals, but their current job, especially with their recent promotion, means they don't have time and we've been eating like crap as a result. Bad for all of us, and the constant cycle of L. saying "No really I'm going to cook this week" -- buy lots of ingredients -- oh nope haha there wasn't time to cook -- ingredients go bad -- L. feels deep and abiding shame when we need to throw away spoiled, unused groceries is a really shitty cycle I would like to bail out of. Another recent development is that D. has been diagnosed with fatty liver disease and our doctor is really stressing to him that (1) diet and exercise are the only things that will help and (2) it's potentially serious and needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. Meanwhile, L. has high cholesterol and is trying to avoid going on meds, I'm anemic and trying to lose weight...basically we're all getting older and need to take better care of ourselves.

 

Okay so WTF with all this preamble, right? Well, here we go!

  Reveal hidden contents

 

We've signed up for a personal-chef-esque meal prep service that focuses on custom nutrition plans for people with dietary restrictions and health goals! They have nutritionists on staff who plan everything so I don't have to! People who are not me will cook me food and deliver it to our house! Healthy food custom-cooked based on our food preferences and health needs! We will stop wasting money on expensive compost from Safeway! We won't eat unhealthy takeout that costs a fortune!

 

It is expensive ($585 CAD a week including groceries for dinners every weeknight with enough for some lunch leftovers), but I did the math, and after you add up our current grocery expenses and takeout (including Doordash delivery fees and tips), we'll be breaking even compared to most weeks and actually saving money compared to other weeks (which is horrifying, but like...if we order sushi for the three of us it's $100 so I guess I'm not surprised). Also, at this point, I am willing to trade money for (1) easy mode for eating healthy and (2) free time not spent doing a thing I hate. All three of us work and have good jobs and if we're going to splurge, it should be on something that increases quality of life, right?

 

I spent the last couple of days going through their intake process, doing the initial interview with one of the nutritionists, etc. Should start within the next 2-3 weeks, and I'm suuuuper excited.

 

Awwww HELLS Yissss!! This is awesome. 

[Severine]

7 hours ago, Athaclena said:

Every time I did the "math" - and I use Mint so it's IN MY FACE what we spend on groceries, restaurants & fast food - on using a Meal Service of SOME sort and NOT using one - it comes out cheaper or a wash in the long run if I use one ESPECIALLY once I add in the fact that I'm eating healthier meals as a result. Even if I use one of the more expensive option - but once I found Every Plate - it's actually less expensive, there is less pre-prepped (which - pre-prepped stuff is nice, but it's more expensive that way and I don't know what's in it) and there is almost no food waste. Yes, I chucked the un-appetizing looking string beans the other night, but I subbed in roasting a $1 bag of frozen California veggies instead so really, not a "huge" waste. I also don't feel as.... exhausted..... cooking other meals - but I am getting PRETTY close to making it 4 meals a week from them rather than 3 as one less meal per week *I* have to worry about. I control the salt\butter going into my meals - you can now swap some of the proteins and veggies even (since Hello Fresh bought them). So it's like everything I liked about Hello Fresh, but at Every Plate prices

 

Yeah the decreased mental load from not having to plan/decide is definitely part of what I'm after. And you're so right about controlling butter/salt - it makes a huuuge difference. Every time I've talked to people in food service they say that the reason restaurant food always tastes good is how much more of that sort of thing they use. Anyway, I'm super happy you found one that you like and that's affordable (and available in your I-think-somewhat-rural neighbourhood). Pretty impressive honestly.

 

6 hours ago, Marauder said:

Very exciting!  Thank heavens my husband loves to cook because I'm with you on not wanting to.  My lunches are literally whatever is a) leftover, b) edible in its current state, or c) absolute minimum effort.  We tried a meal service thing, but husband doesnt like to follow instructions/recipes.    How are your meals delivered to you?  Frozen?  Fresh?    Our oldest is moving out at the end of July and I'm picturing our grocery bill going way down.  Then again, inflation.

 

Haha I am 100% with you for lunches. For a long time, when L. was cooking, they'd deliberately make extra leftovers because then I would eat a proper lunch instead of like...eating half a box of crackers and an apple.

 

They plan them so that the meals for the first 2-3 days are fresh and the meals for the end of the week are are things that freeze well (just so that they don't sit in the fridge too long before you eat them). There's also an option to have the meals prepared and delivered in two batches, one at the start of the week and one midweek, if you don't want to have anything frozen. We might switch to that later, but it's a bit more expensive so we figured we'd start this way and see how it goes. I know a lot of foods (veggie lasagnas, soups, etc.) respond well to freezing so we'll see.

 

And yeah groceries are even more expensive here than in the States, and certain things especially have really skyrocketed. Part of the benefit of this service is that they buy from wholesalers and restaurant suppliers, so the grocery prices we're paying through them are not as bad as what's in the grocery stores. I hope your bill does go down! Or at least it might be easier to shop with one less person's preference to factor in.

[fleaball]

17 hours ago, Severine said:

L. saying "No really I'm going to cook this week" -- buy lots of ingredients -- oh nope haha there wasn't time to cook -- ingredients go bad -- L. feels deep and abiding shame when we need to throw away spoiled, unused groceries is a really shitty cycle I would like to bail out of.  Another recent development is that D. has been diagnosed with fatty liver disease and our doctor is really stressing to him that (1) diet and exercise are the only things that will help and (2) it's potentially serious and needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

oh man. I am far too familiar with the process of buying and ignoring and throwing out groceries. woof. As far as fatty liver, my GI agrees with your doc. He keeps saying that even lowering your BMI (gag) a couple points makes a massive difference. I wish it were that easy, sir. Trust me.

[Severine]

4 hours ago, fleaball said:

oh man. I am far too familiar with the process of buying and ignoring and throwing out groceries. woof. As far as fatty liver, my GI agrees with your doc. He keeps saying that even lowering your BMI (gag) a couple points makes a massive difference. I wish it were that easy, sir. Trust me.

 

Yeah, I've had some doctors who are sympathetic/realistic about the challenges of weight loss, but it's been 50/50 at best. The other half seem to hand out this advice like it's not something we've thought of before. "Oh, I should try to lose weight? Dear god, why didn't anyone tell me!? If only I had grown up in a society where literally every aspect of media, health care, fashion, and social pressure emphasized how important it was to be thin, then this would never have happened!"

 

 

Re: D. and the fatty liver situation, I'm slightly nervous because it's a huge understatement to say he's not interested in fitness or nutrition. After his diagnosis, he read a bunch of research and noted that only some people with fatty liver ever develop complications as a result (he clearly assumes he will be one of the lucky ones and/or is prepared to roll the dice). I usually love his unfailing optimism but in this case 🙄 His other main takeaway was that vitamin E helps, so now he eats a lot of sunflower seeds as snacks because he likes them and they're high in it. Which is good, but probably not enough? Basically, the only hope is to make healthy changes that don't change his level of happiness with his food (hence the pro chef) and to get him to come on walks for social reasons. It's not that he doesn't acknowledge how important exercise is (he loved this video and found it super compelling, for example) but he's a super live-in-the-moment kind of guy and when he finishes work and feels tired, something that might benefit him in the future is definitely not enough to get him off the couch.

[fleaball]

Fwiw I asked my GI about both vitamin E and milk thistle, which is apparently supposed to be good for your liver. He said they vit e especially was like all the rage for liver issues in the 80s and 90s (something to do with HIV?) but there’s no actual research that proves it does anything. I forget what he said milk thistle started to be used for but he said there’s also no evidence that does anything either. He said neither of them can harm you so basically if you want to try to placebo yourself into it, go for it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

i know I’ve def read that vitamin E can help so idk if it’s based on old research or if it’s been blown wildly out of proportion (like those “these houseplants will clean your air!” but apparently you’d need a whole wall of them to actually make a difference). MGH is currently doing a study on whether it will help HIV patients with fatty liver, but only that population. So idk. 
 

not sure what my point is here. Except that maybe I shouldn’t be posting at almost 5am. But yeah while my doc has said the same, that not *everyone* develops cirrhosis like… I still don’t want to risk cirrhosis? It sounds like that’s a case of a lucky few avoiding it, as opposed to only unlucky people getting it. 

[Countess D'If]

7 hours ago, fleaball said:

Except that maybe I shouldn’t be posting at almost 5am.

Incorrect. Unhinged, insomanical, internet research fueled @fleaball is the best fleaball. 

[Severine]

21 hours ago, fleaball said:

Fwiw I asked my GI about both vitamin E and milk thistle, which is apparently supposed to be good for your liver. He said they vit e especially was like all the rage for liver issues in the 80s and 90s (something to do with HIV?) but there’s no actual research that proves it does anything. I forget what he said milk thistle started to be used for but he said there’s also no evidence that does anything either. He said neither of them can harm you so basically if you want to try to placebo yourself into it, go for it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

i know I’ve def read that vitamin E can help so idk if it’s based on old research or if it’s been blown wildly out of proportion (like those “these houseplants will clean your air!” but apparently you’d need a whole wall of them to actually make a difference). MGH is currently doing a study on whether it will help HIV patients with fatty liver, but only that population. So idk. 
 

not sure what my point is here. Except that maybe I shouldn’t be posting at almost 5am. But yeah while my doc has said the same, that not *everyone* develops cirrhosis like… I still don’t want to risk cirrhosis? It sounds like that’s a case of a lucky few avoiding it, as opposed to only unlucky people getting it. 

 

Oh yeah, I agree with you 100% and like...you're taking a nuanced, logical approach to evaluating the situation and possible responses. D. is....not doing that 😄 Normally his blind optimism and 100% full-hearted certainty that everything will definitely work out fine is a great counter to my bouts of rumination and anxiety, but when it comes to health, I don't think magical thinking is the way to go. That being said, I think sunflower seeds are pretty healthy so if it makes him happy to snack on them, cool. Honestly, I think a lot of this is just me needing to work on accepting that he's got to make his own health choices.

 

Today was pretty good, as was yesterday. I did a bunch of gardening this morning, and that felt good. Overall, I'm hitting my goals most days.

 

Of course, because I'm me, the challenge going well meant I decided to add another thing, so when the case of Coke Zero we had in the house ran out, I asked D. not to buy another one and I'm trying to go 100% soda free. I didn't use to drink it, so in theory it should be relatively easy to quit - I only started during the epic cross-continental drive from Boston to Vancouver (I felt like I needed the caffeine for the long driving days) because driving 3,400 miles/5500 km in 7 days is no joke. So far it's going well (2 days) and I think it honestly makes it easier to avoid sugary food if I'm not drinking artificially sweet drinks.

 

L.'s mum is coming to visit next week, which should be fairly low-key. It'll also be kind of amusing because it's only her second time ever leaving the U.S. and she's never been to Canada. I expect a lot of questions about where the mounties are (apparently she was a big fan of some Hallmark-esque romance saga featuring a mountie).

[Athaclena]

11 hours ago, Severine said:

because driving 3,400 miles/5500 km in 7 days is no joke

Understatement. We went from Atlanta to Seattle (with a brief 2 day "sojourn" in Missoula) one week, stayed in Seattle a week (I worked from the hotel, hubby helped setup a big lan party) - had the lan party that weekend, spent an "extra" day in Portland, OR then drove back to Atlanta - arriving about 6 hours before I had to login to work.....

[Severine]

Update! L.'s mum arrived yesterday, so everything has been kind of a frenzy. Managing to keep things going fairly smoothly, but even though I like L's mum decently well, I find the extra socializing really exhausting.

 

[Sovalis]

Good luck with the visit! Hope it goes well! 

[Severine]

Welp, I am facing a bit of a dilemma I wouldn't mind people's thoughts on. On Saturday, we'll be taking L's mum to Vancouver island for a day trip. While we're there, she really wants to stop in Nanaimo and enjoy some nanaimo bars (an explanation of this iconic Canadian dessert for the uninitiated) because I've made them for her before during previous holiday visits and she loves them. That's all well and good, but the question is....am I going to eat one?

 

I'm coming up on three weeks of avoiding all sweets, chocolate, candies, sweet sauces, processed foods with added sugar, etc. I haven't had any sugar except for what's naturally occurring in fruit and other whole foods. And I can't decide whether I want to make an exception for a treat given the circumstances (we have a guest, we'll be in visiting a place I normally never go to) or hold steady with my goals/eating plan despite the circumstances. L.'s mum has noticed that I'm avoiding sweets, and we talked about it briefly; she has already commented a couple of times that she hopes I won't deny myself a treat this weekend.

 

My old intuitive eating nutritionist in Boston would tell me that it's important to not be too rigid about food rules and that restriction is harmful. She would say that being able to enjoy a treat at a special occasion is an important part of having a healthy relationship with food. However, historically, I have found sticking to my goals easier and less mentally taxing when I don't make exceptions: a simple rule is easy to follow, but constantly evaluating the merits of possible exceptions is exhausting. For me, it's true that "99% is hard but 100% is easy." Exceptions and/or indulgences have also previously led to me straying from habits even when I was benefiting from them. The last time I gave up all added sugar, I went for more than eight months and felt great. More energetic, happier. And then I went over to a neighbour's for lunch and had a slice of chocolate mousse cake because "after so long without sugar I've proven I don't need it, so what's the harm in a little bit?" Three weeks later, I was at my desk snacking on Hershey's Kisses. On the other other hand, the aforementioned nutritionist would tell me that my reaction to the cake was precisely the result of eight months without chocolate and proved that restrictions don't work. I don't believe she experiences cravings/impulses/addiction the way I do, however, and I have serious doubts that I will ever get to a point where I can truly trust my body to stop wanting to eat a bunch of harmful junk.

 

As you can see, I'm all tied up in knots about it (and avoiding all this internal drama and second-guessing is part of why I like the 100% adherence rule!). Input is welcome. I can't promise I'll follow anyone's advice, but I promise I'll listen and really think about it.

 

Anyway, check-in:

 

The walk was longer today, but that's because L's mum came with us and she's 76, so we had to go a lot more slowly than usual. Nice walk though.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

I would tend to agree with the nutritionist. I think you've painted yourself into a corner where no matter what, you can't win. Either you have the bar and take a flying leap down the slippery slope, or you abstain and merely delay your flying leap down the slippery slope. If we are still talking Intuitive Eating, I'd say you haven't really let go of the idea of dieting.

[sarakingdom]

On the one hand, I think one of the wise things about paleo is the 80/20 rule, where they don't stress the occasional lapse or treat it as "falling off the wagon" or a broken pattern, but simply the acknowledgment that perfectionism is not a realistic or helpful part of life and managing our environments and obligations. On the other hand, I found, when giving up gluten, that there was a world of difference between "I should cut down, I don't react well" and "I cannot eat it for medical reasons". So I get you.

 

Fact: Sugar is a slightly addictive substance. It's not unusual that some leads to craving more, or that some people have a stronger reaction to it than others.

 

Also fact: One dessert every 21 days is not going to wreck a diet, undo health benefits, or cause a physiological response a person can't cope with. It's not heroin.

 

Also also fact: If your concern about sugar were about prediabetes or anxiety management or whatever, very few people would question your decision to flatly cut out sugar from your diet, or talk about denying yourself treats. It'd be a health decision, like any food reaction, and simply how you eat. There is nothing wrong with deciding there's a deeply rooted addiction behavior that is better to bypass than constantly fight, or that the tangible health benefits are simply what you want and losing them is a problem. Or even that you just don't want the hassle of fighting yourself; our energy is limited.

 

(Though be wary of this last one, because it's where diet mentality will try to trick you; this is not the same as "experts say that..." or "if I eat pure, it'll be good for me in the long run". This is actual needles moving every day on mental health symptoms and feelings of sickness. This is the point that is going to be most appealing to, and open to subconscious gaming by, underlying orthorexia or punishment/deprivation/control mindsets. I believe in not fighting addiction-prone-personality issues with moderation, and that it can be useful to do so even for things less harmful than the obvious ones like alcohol, because reinforcing the addiction behavior itself is the problem. I'm also totally cool with simply picking one's battles. But I also believe that an unhealthy relationship with food as a moral issue or feeling negative yourself can be fueled and made worse by treating it as though it is addiction as a way to enforce your behavior. So don't race to adopt the problem or pathologise something normal because you like the solution better; really think about the evidence for the problem you're actually solving.)

 

 

So I think the first thing to unpack is, there's no "correct" answer to this one. You can make either choice, and be correct about your reasoning, and correct about your priorities. Neither choice is a failure. Managing imperfection, particularly in the service of good life experiences, is wise and doable. Making a firm and consistent decision about what supports your health, and what does not, is wise and doable. You are developing a skill either way. It's just deciding which way you want to spend your energy.

 

I agree with Tank that the lack of trust in yourself is an issue, and a threat to threat to sustainability of your eating, and may well be diet mentality rearing its head. A  lot of the diet mentality is pretty punitive or coercive, and revolves around lack of control versus asserting control. So those are flags to watch out for. You say you don't think your intuitive eating therapist experiences cravings the way you do, but bear in mind that she may well have started out where you are - one of the functions of intuitive eating is to break the psychological pressure of cravings, so she may be trying to tell you how to use the tool that addresses the problem you're taking about. The fact that you experience the problem doesn't mean the tool doesn't apply to you. All this says is that you don't trust either the tool itself or your ability to use it, and want to avoid using it. Which, you know, maybe. That's possible. But intuitive eating doesn't work because all those people are wildly different from you on some physiological or psychological level. You, like them, are most likely in the range of human average. So this is likely resistance to the difficulty speaking, not objectivity.

 

This is something I also think benefits from approaching it as a skill to practice and develop. Tool use is a skill. Learning experiences are valuable, even if we don't get it right the first time. So then the thing to unpack is, how do you get the results you want from the choice you make, and what can you learn from the experience?

 

If you choose to develop a more relaxed trust in yourself to handle imperfection, then there are questions like: Does the size of the sugar dose affect how hard it is for me to go back to my usual habits? What social support can I put in place to assist if I struggle with that? How much of the resumption of the habit is physiological, versus some psychological sense of having failed at my goal or breaking the streak or something, and what mindset can I use to bring this back to something more objective?

 

If you choose to treat this as a health issue or just not the battle you want to fight right now, then the questions are things like: How can I share in food-based celebrations and social events with my loved ones? Are there compromises like sugar free or keto nanaimo bars that might work? (Yes, though finding them in a bakery could be tough.) Or nanaimo bar flavored coffee? (Also yes, but ditto.) What prep work can I do to support my diet needs while still being a part of this event? Food plays a big social role for people, so this is part of the skill to develop for this choice.

 

If you make either choice, and then "fail" in some fashion, then you have learned about an issue that needs to be better addressed to support the outcomes you want.

 

So either choice is fine, and presents useful learning experiences. The one choice that I think is not fine is deciding based on lack of trust in yourself. Reinforcing the mindset that you're just fundamentally built to be untrustworthy with food doesn't end well in the long term. In the absence of some very strong evidence to the contrary (and your cake evidence is a very standard story of normal human behavior), it's probably untrue, as well.

[Severine]

On 7/8/2022 at 3:11 PM, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

I would tend to agree with the nutritionist. I think you've painted yourself into a corner where no matter what, you can't win. Either you have the bar and take a flying leap down the slippery slope, or you abstain and merely delay your flying leap down the slippery slope. If we are still talking Intuitive Eating, I'd say you haven't really let go of the idea of dieting.

 

The bolded part feels super true. And yes, I'll be the first to say that I have a long way to go on the ED recovery road. I'm definitely muddling along as I go, but I do think some things are better than they used to be and I am trying hard to celebrate that and build on it rather than focus on what remains as yet undone. I appreciate your insight and support, as always.

 

On 7/8/2022 at 5:03 PM, sarakingdom said:

On the one hand, I think one of the wise things about paleo is the 80/20 rule, where they don't stress the occasional lapse or treat it as "falling off the wagon" or a broken pattern, but simply the acknowledgment that perfectionism is not a realistic or helpful part of life and managing our environments and obligations. On the other hand, I found, when giving up gluten, that there was a world of difference between "I should cut down, I don't react well" and "I cannot eat it for medical reasons". So I get you.

 

Fact: Sugar is a slightly addictive substance. It's not unusual that some leads to craving more, or that some people have a stronger reaction to it than others.

 

Also fact: One dessert every 21 days is not going to wreck a diet, undo health benefits, or cause a physiological response a person can't cope with. It's not heroin.

 

Also also fact: If your concern about sugar were about prediabetes or anxiety management or whatever, very few people would question your decision to flatly cut out sugar from your diet, or talk about denying yourself treats. It'd be a health decision, like any food reaction, and simply how you eat. There is nothing wrong with deciding there's a deeply rooted addiction behavior that is better to bypass than constantly fight, or that the tangible health benefits are simply what you want and losing them is a problem. Or even that you just don't want the hassle of fighting yourself; our energy is limited.

 

(Though be wary of this last one, because it's where diet mentality will try to trick you; this is not the same as "experts say that..." or "if I eat pure, it'll be good for me in the long run". This is actual needles moving every day on mental health symptoms and feelings of sickness. This is the point that is going to be most appealing to, and open to subconscious gaming by, underlying orthorexia or punishment/deprivation/control mindsets. I believe in not fighting addiction-prone-personality issues with moderation, and that it can be useful to do so even for things less harmful than the obvious ones like alcohol, because reinforcing the addiction behavior itself is the problem. I'm also totally cool with simply picking one's battles. But I also believe that an unhealthy relationship with food as a moral issue or feeling negative yourself can be fueled and made worse by treating it as though it is addiction as a way to enforce your behavior. So don't race to adopt the problem or pathologise something normal because you like the solution better; really think about the evidence for the problem you're actually solving.)

 

 

So I think the first thing to unpack is, there's no "correct" answer to this one. You can make either choice, and be correct about your reasoning, and correct about your priorities. Neither choice is a failure. Managing imperfection, particularly in the service of good life experiences, is wise and doable. Making a firm and consistent decision about what supports your health, and what does not, is wise and doable. You are developing a skill either way. It's just deciding which way you want to spend your energy.

 

I agree with Tank that the lack of trust in yourself is an issue, and a threat to threat to sustainability of your eating, and may well be diet mentality rearing its head. A  lot of the diet mentality is pretty punitive or coercive, and revolves around lack of control versus asserting control. So those are flags to watch out for. You say you don't think your intuitive eating therapist experiences cravings the way you do, but bear in mind that she may well have started out where you are - one of the functions of intuitive eating is to break the psychological pressure of cravings, so she may be trying to tell you how to use the tool that addresses the problem you're taking about. The fact that you experience the problem doesn't mean the tool doesn't apply to you. All this says is that you don't trust either the tool itself or your ability to use it, and want to avoid using it. Which, you know, maybe. That's possible. But intuitive eating doesn't work because all those people are wildly different from you on some physiological or psychological level. You, like them, are most likely in the range of human average. So this is likely resistance to the difficulty speaking, not objectivity.

 

This is something I also think benefits from approaching it as a skill to practice and develop. Tool use is a skill. Learning experiences are valuable, even if we don't get it right the first time. So then the thing to unpack is, how do you get the results you want from the choice you make, and what can you learn from the experience?

 

If you choose to develop a more relaxed trust in yourself to handle imperfection, then there are questions like: Does the size of the sugar dose affect how hard it is for me to go back to my usual habits? What social support can I put in place to assist if I struggle with that? How much of the resumption of the habit is physiological, versus some psychological sense of having failed at my goal or breaking the streak or something, and what mindset can I use to bring this back to something more objective?

 

If you choose to treat this as a health issue or just not the battle you want to fight right now, then the questions are things like: How can I share in food-based celebrations and social events with my loved ones? Are there compromises like sugar free or keto nanaimo bars that might work? (Yes, though finding them in a bakery could be tough.) Or nanaimo bar flavored coffee? (Also yes, but ditto.) What prep work can I do to support my diet needs while still being a part of this event? Food plays a big social role for people, so this is part of the skill to develop for this choice.

 

If you make either choice, and then "fail" in some fashion, then you have learned about an issue that needs to be better addressed to support the outcomes you want.

 

So either choice is fine, and presents useful learning experiences. The one choice that I think is not fine is deciding based on lack of trust in yourself. Reinforcing the mindset that you're just fundamentally built to be untrustworthy with food doesn't end well in the long term. In the absence of some very strong evidence to the contrary (and your cake evidence is a very standard story of normal human behavior), it's probably untrue, as well.

 

This whole post was extremely thought-provoking and insightful. I really appreciate the time and thought you put into  it, and it helped me pose some good questions and reflect on some interesting corners of the whole tangled mess. Please accept an earnest thank you 🏆

 

You're right about there being no clear right or wrong. My situation is a longstanding and deep-rooted mix of many different problems, factors, fears, habits, beliefs, etc. and I often feel ill at ease with things so amorphous and inconsistent. Nothing is neat or simple and there are no real right answers or clear paths. In situations like that, I have a tendency to either make snap impulsive decisions or μέν…δέ... myself into navel-gazing rumination oblivion. Having an outside perspective is very helpful, because your questions and observations don't fit my narrative flow and don't take my own assumptions, biases, hopes, fears, etc. into account.

 

Anyway, I did end up eating one of the bars and felt fine about it except that, hilariously, it wasn't good! It was a sub-par nanaimo bar for sure. Which, interestingly, coloured the whole experience. I felt simultaneously relieved and cheated. It did lead (to the extent that anything leads to anything in any real sense other than stories we tell ourselves) to me having sweets again later that night and then for the last few days as well, but in a way that felt more like I was singing along with a familiar song than truly feeling driven to do anything. I think there's a non-trivial part of me that still likes and needs the narrative linkage of sugar leads to more sugar, lapses lead to downward spirals, etc. I felt oddly disconnected from it this time.

 

Other than that, things are rolling along. The meal prep service is going super well (will post more about that later) and I'm mostly on track with things re: exercise, work, etc.

Cut for some complaining about house guests.

Spoiler

Getting very tired of house guests. L.'s mum is still here for another week and now L.'s brother, wife, and niblings (9 and 12) are here too. I am in introvert hell.

 

The kids are mostly not disagreeable, but I enjoy spending time with bookish weird kids who want to talk about math puzzles or what concrete is made of or how many photoreceptors a mantis shrimp has. These kids are not currently those kids, and I find it exhausting to do even a minimal amount of socially expected pretending to care about random monologues on favourite princesses or soccer tournaments or cartoons or the new iPad they want their parents to buy them. L.'s brother means well (I think? He's hard to read) but he keeps trying to give us awkwardly incorrect and unsolicited explanations of topics for which the knowledge/experience imbalance is not in his favour. As an example, this morning he tried to offer a bizarrely incorrect explanation of an aspect of a Microsoft product launch to D., who works for Microsoft in the engineering org that handles that product line. I also overheard him try to explain something to L. about funding models for academic research (while once again being very confidently incorrect), which is surreal because L. (a) is a computer science professor and (b) spent several years working as a research funding administrator at a major university. I am quite sure he just feels threatened by L. (his younger sibling) for stupid rivalry reasons and is clumsily trying to prove that he knows stuff, but like...maybe some therapy? Also, maybe notice that we give zero fucks about what you know or don't know on various topics and we are actively against competitive yardsticking. Everyone knows only a tiny bit compared to all the things they don't know. That's life! Own it! Or at least pick a topic you actually know something about. The insecure wrongsplaining is painful to watch and I resent having to do polite social labour to transition the conversation away from these disasters in a way that helps him save face.

 

L.'s sister-in-law is friendly and sweet, but I find talking to her exhausting. She is this smiling, self-sacrificing, dutiful midwestern mom whose conversation topics of choice are unfailingly light and fluffy and 90% about her children and husband. For years I have been trying to crack the veneer and get some idea of her real thoughts and personality and so far no luck. Also, I ran a few loads of laundry for them while they were out today seeing the city with L., and then watching her sit and fold everyone's clothes while the kids played video games and her husband napped brought me ever closer to a limit break.

 

They're all here until Sunday I think? Or maybe Saturday. I wish I were better at knowing how to be polite to people I don't vibe with while staying true to myself and not keeping everything so surface level.

 

 

Proud of myself for exercising pretty consistently. I've mostly been enjoying it, too. Still thinking about food stuff but going to go back to trying to avoid sweets for the next wee while while I continue to ponder.

[sarakingdom]

4 hours ago, Severine said:

You're right about there being no clear right or wrong. My situation is a longstanding and deep-rooted mix of many different problems, factors, fears, habits, beliefs, etc. and I often feel ill at ease with things so amorphous and inconsistent. Nothing is neat or simple and there are no real right answers or clear paths. In situations like that, I have a tendency to either make snap impulsive decisions or μέν…δέ... myself into navel-gazing rumination oblivion.

 

I absolutely get it. And there's so much cultural baggage of morality and self-worth, as well as social expectations and cultural reward/punishment ideas, around the standard approach to food. It's not an easy set of narratives to break. Glad it helped you cut through the tangle a bit!

 

4 hours ago, Severine said:

Anyway, I did end up eating one of the bars and felt fine about it except that, hilariously, it wasn't good!

 

This is actually a very common feeling among people who drop sugar and then have some - it's just not as good as they'd expected, and often a bit of a letdown. And I can't say I didn't expect a little something of the sort when I gave the advice.

 

4 hours ago, Severine said:

me having sweets again later that night and then for the last few days as well, but in a way that felt more like I was singing along with a familiar song than truly feeling driven to do anything. I think there's a non-trivial part of me that still likes and needs the narrative linkage of sugar leads to more sugar, lapses lead to downward spirals, etc. I felt oddly disconnected from it this time.

 

So, honestly, I consider this quite successful in terms of observing your reactions to and relationship with food! There's good data about whether that craving in your head is telling you reliable things, and what that craving feels like and does if you choose to loose up for a special occasion. And it's also good practice detaching from the craving and viewing it mindfully, rather than letting it run things. (And that is a skill that needs to be practiced, for sure.) So I do think it was a useful thing to do, even with the expected difficulty of getting back on track.

 

It's a really common narrative. Nearly everyone has advice for not letting a slip turn into a binge of pizza and ice cream for the rest of the day or longer, because it's a really common behavior. And sugar is just slightly addictive, and gives it a push. I think IE  (not an expert) deals with it it part by being able to see that these behaviors are a mental narrative and developing that ability to interrupt it and look at what you're actually feeling.

 

I think you're no added sugar, in the paleo vein, rather than actual low carb, correct? It might be worth figuring out if using a slightly higher fruit intake for a couple of days helps you get back to your usual pattern, like a stepping stone.

 

I am sorry the bar didn't live up to expectations! Useful an observation as it is that these things we build up might not be All That, it'd also be nice to have a really satisfying experience and move on.

[Ahyar Dreamspark]

6 hours ago, Severine said:

Cut for some complaining about house guests.

 

Uuughhh. The text inside the cut brought back memories of forced family time from years past. Introvert hell indeed. May there be as little drama and/or awkwardness until they leave 😬

[Elastigirl]

Bummer on the Nanaimo bars. I would have been in camp go for it, if I'd read this in time. That's  in my category of  rare treats, enjoy it while you can.  But, it's awesome that you were able to evaluate it and say it wasn't good.  Sugar can be one of those things that I think is good no matter how lousy the treat is. So, for me, slowing down enough to tell whether or not I actually like it is an excellent skill to acquire.

[Severine]

5 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

 

I think you're no added sugar, in the paleo vein, rather than actual low carb, correct? It might be worth figuring out if using a slightly higher fruit intake for a couple of days helps you get back to your usual pattern, like a stepping stone.

 

Correct, no added sugar. I am in fact a fruit maniac and eat a lot of it (I also try to eat high fibre, so things like apples and berries are great snacks). The eating style I'm aiming for is pretty close to the Mediterranean diet. Tons of veggies, fruits, and legumes, healthy fats, phytochemical variety, fish, some chicken and turkey. Grains like couscous, oats, brown rice, buckwheat, quinoa, amaranth, farro, etc. but not much bread (I don't like bread much). No red meat unless I'm at a restaurant where I trust them enough to order a rare steak. I eat Greek yoghurt and some goat cheese, but not much else in terms of dairy. I do eat eggs. Lots of spices and herbs. This is the best overlap of "stuff I think is delicious" and "stuff that doesn't leave me feeling gross after eating" and "stuff experts think is a good idea to eat" I have found.

 

And agreed, I think some extra special berry medleys would be a good idea for a few days.

[Sovalis]

Oh I feel you on the Houseguest front; currently dealing with my own back to back extended stays. Solidarity! 

 

I'm sorry the Nanaimo Bar was a disappointment. I've had that experience where I get involved with the idea of something and then had it be a let down. I take unreasonable offense when the disappointment comes from food. 😅

 

Wishing you some recovery time! 

[Severine]

L.'s family is GONE! Overall the visit was good, and I'm so glad L. got a chance to see them in person after so long, but I am also absolutely delighted to have our place back and not have to go on long, exhausting touristy excursions with two kids, a guy whose insecurity seems outpaced only by his ego, and a woman who appears to have taken The Stepford Wives as a series of useful tips on how to live well.

 

There has been some weird medical stuff happening for L., too - they had abdominal pain and so went in for an ultrasound, which showed something that looked like a large mass (roughly 12cm x 10cm x 8cm) in their lower left abdomen. Family doctor got the results and sent them for an emergency CT, which involved spending an afternoon at Vancouver General Hospital. CT came back totally clear. There is, unsatisfyingly, no explanation for what was causing the pain or why the ultrasound showed what it did. The doctors, when pressed, said that it could have simply been shadowing on the U/S and not to worry about it because the CT is the more accurate scan. L. is taking this as a sign that everything is fine and they can forget about it, but it doesn't sit right with me. Why the pain? Why did they have that belly button infection? Was it really just a shadow on the U/S? (They had an abdominal operation about a year ago, for context). I can't help feeling like maybe I'm at the beginning of one of those stories where someone is told not to worry about something and then months/years later it turns out it really was a Thing. But it might also just be me being paranoid and L. doesn't want to hear it.

 

What I am currently worrying about: I am set to fly to Toronto on Tuesday and then drive up north to see my grandparents in a rental car. My grandparents raised me after my actual parents proved dangerous and useless in a variety of ways, and are essentially my parents. I am very close with them and really want to see them (last time was December 2018, just before my cancer diagnosis), but I am absolutely terrified of giving them covid if I catch it en route. I'm vaccinated and boosted and am planning to wear an N95 the whole way and be super careful, and I think it'll probably be fine, but there's no guarantee, and it makes me nervous. My grandparents are in their late 80s and my grandmother has congestive heart failure and is recovering from a recent surgery; even with vaccinations, it's not clear she'd be okay if she got it. It would absolutely ruin me if I got them sick, and it's making me really anxious. Meanwhile, my grandmother is all, "no sense in worrying, you only live once, roll the dice and take what comes!" about it, which is very her; her fire and defiant uncrushability are part of why I love her so much.

 

As an added bonus, there's the fact that Canadian airports, due to staffing shortages, are currently the organizational equivalent of six ferrets fighting in a burlap sack. Tonnes of flights are being cancelled and delayed, and ugh, I am just dreading the chaos. At least I'll be leaving B.C. just as the heat dome shows up. I think my uncle's house (where my grandparents are living atm) now has a/c? I guess we'll see.

 

The visit with L.'s family definitely contributed to knocking me off my good eating habits. Not because I was eating tasty things with them, but rather because them being here stressed me out and stress both depleted my ability to make rational choices and triggered my coping-with-stress mechanisms, one of which is eating for comfort. A useful science experiment in a way. It actually feels useful because it tells me I need to figure out a better plan for staying consistent when things suck.

 

 

Anyway. I'm doing well with my iron supplements and walking. The day I missed on 7.19 was an intentional rest day because the 50 min the day before was climbing up a very very steep set of trails, one of which led to this waterfall. B.C. really is gorgeous:

 

 

Also, I still have all my nutritionist research just sitting there and I can't make myself email anyone. I need to think more about why I'm so hesitant. I'm relieved to have more time to think now that the house isn't such a hub of activity.

[Athaclena]

15 hours ago, Severine said:

I'm vaccinated and boosted and am planning to wear an N95 the whole way and be super careful, and I think it'll probably be fine, but there's no guarantee, and it makes me nervous. My grandparents are in their late 80s and my grandmother has congestive heart failure and is recovering from a recent surgery; even with vaccinations, it's not clear she'd be okay if she got it. It would absolutely ruin me if I got them sick, and it's making me really anxious. Meanwhile, my grandmother is all, "no sense in worrying, you only live once, roll the dice and take what comes!" about it, which is very her; her fire and defiant uncrushability are part of why I love her so much.

 

I'm with you. Make it as safe as humanly possible. N95 mask. Sanitize hands - maybe even shower\change clothes FIRST THING. How long will you be there? Do they have a good air cleaner? Can someone make a Corsi-Rosenthal Box Air Cleaner? I know folks that popped positive and with these in the room, no one else was infected. Just trying to make things as SAFE as possible

[Severine]

2 hours ago, Athaclena said:

 

I'm with you. Make it as safe as humanly possible. N95 mask. Sanitize hands - maybe even shower\change clothes FIRST THING. How long will you be there? Do they have a good air cleaner? Can someone make a Corsi-Rosenthal Box Air Cleaner? I know folks that popped positive and with these in the room, no one else was infected. Just trying to make things as SAFE as possible

 

They don't have an air purifier (I asked) but my grandfather and uncle are both handy and could totally throw one of those DIY ones together if they can find a box fan...I'll send them the link! Thanks for the suggestion. It can't hurt, anyway. And an air purifier is useful for pollen, pet hair (they have a cat), and other stuff too, so it's not like it'll be wasted effort.

 

I know perfect safety isn't possible, I'm just trying to be as safe as we can without going to extreme lengths.