[Pyralis]

Late to the party as always. I've had enough. 

 

Currently doing a 1 week horseback riding beginner's course. I'm all alone in a foreign village without car in a holiday apartment, walking 3km in the morning each day to my course, hanging out on a horse farm with my small group of fellow beginners, learning the basics with the horses and riding, then walking back to my apartment, washing my laundry in the sink because they do not have a washing machine and I could not bring enough clothes in the train, going grocery shopping and hanging out here on my own. What can I say? I love it. I love being with the horses and the other animals there and I love the riding and how constructive the course is and I love being here on my own entirely without my bf and being able to conquer this quite intimidating challenge on my own. I really needed that.

 

Of course it has me questioning things. It's day 4 today and I've realized I'm fed up with almost all relationships in my life. They suck. Maybe I suck. I'm a people pleaser but in this course I am realizing I can't be friends with most people. Maybe I'm going too fast, maybe it is because of the ADHD, but almost all my "friendships" involve me engaging with people. Asking them how they are, what they're doing, initiating conversations, and so on. Even in my relationship I do most of this kind of work. My bf might ask how it is going, but he never engages in conversations with me. It's mostly me talking AT him. Frankly, he bores me. So, I've said it. I'm bored by what he says and how he says it and how he has never anything interesting to say, never thinks about anything, has no interests but watching youtube videos of weight lifters or anime, and is unable to tell me anything ever I don't know already, never challenges me in any way and never contributes to a conversation. Our relationship worked because I did that, and he... took it. He is there for me, that is true, but emotionally and intellectually I am bored to death and on my own. I get more support and input in this forum than I ever got from him. My "friends" do not care for me. Why should I care for them? 

 

I've decided here and now that I will stop. I will stop engaging in these kind of friendships and I will stop carrying our relationship in this way. If it falls apart then, so be it. We are currently in couples therapy and EVEN THERE, and we already picked an ONLINE therapy where he can CHAT, so he does not have to talk and actually in real time word a meaningful sentence but can read and write with enough time (once a day), I am doing most of the work. The therapist said I am taking the role of his mother or the therapist. Fuck this. Fuck that. Fuck you. Fuck off. 

 

My so called friends can kiss my ass, too. 

 

In this course I tried engaging with people but some of them are so weird. Like I ask this woman I am sharing a horse with if she wants to go first. She says "why?" and assumes I have some shady agenda. Jeez.  WHY NOT. Because I am nice. FUCK YOU.  From this day on, I will only invest effort in people who actually reciprocate, and besides that, I'll do whatever I want when I want. That's my goal for now.

 

 

 

[Elastigirl]

Glad you are enjoying the camp. I think in friendships I can be on the non initiating side of things. I'm learning to ask more questions, but it is something I have to work on. With friends that you feel like might care, have you tried talking to them and saying that you would like them to ask you once in a while how you are doing?

[Pyralis]

@Elastigirl Hm, no. I think if you really want to connect with someone, you do so. If not, you do not. Often people when I contact them tell me this story about how they thought about me often and wanted to contact me but didn't, and I think, cool story.

But you didn't. Period. 

 

Why are you on the non initiating side? It's not like I talk to people ALL THE TIME, I just notice there is a trend that I'm usually the one contacting others. I tried during the camp to drop it and it worked just fine, suddenly they were initiating conversations with me. 

 

With the relationship, I have no idea how it will go. There's a chance he will see it as punishment when I do not step in to pick up the slack as usual. But, to quote a friend here, then I've done all I could. The therapy has now officially ended. The therapist asked if we want to continue, I said, I don't, my bf said he doesn't know yet, then he simply never replied or even opened the website ever again. Nice move. As always. 

 

I think actions speak louder than words. He's showing clearly what he wants or does not want. I should take it just as he shows it. 

 

Currently channeling her energy https://youtu.be/zi8ShAosqzI?t=9

 

 

 

I'm so glad I took this course, it was such a great week, had tons of energy and it was fun. I'm getting more lessons now on Icelandic horses and it's a wave of fresh air in life. 

 

My whole life feels like a dead end currently though. I discovered that I do not care about IT, development work, coding and all of this. I do not want to create websites, I don't want to be IT project manager, I don't care about ITIL, app lifecycles, databases, querys or how the internet works. I don't want to learn about it. It's boring af.

 

Kinda annoying I sank almost 7k into this bootcamp. But at least, now I know. I think it's fine to have a job you don't care for, at least I do not need to pretend anymore it's something like my secret passion because it is really not. When I read job offers alone I want to puke in my mouth a little. Same goes for UI, UX and so on, and partially, for design, and everything including scripting and formulas.

If I could, I would leave immediately to work on a horse farm, unfortunately it's not like they are waiting for me or it pays good. At least my starting point has changed now. It might not be a nice realization that I fooled myself like this, for years, for over a decade, but here we go. Thinking about contacting a coach or someone to help me figure this out. I think I will stay in my job and do my best, but now I can drop the burden of trying to change careers to something I also do not care for. 

 

I think I should do things I want to do. Or should I do things I am good at? I forgot. I am not really good at anything, so maybe should go with what I want. Unapologetically doing what I want? I want to write. I want to help people. I want to go outside and connect and smell the earth and trees and touch fur and feel my body and be physically fit and mentally free. I hope now you didn't throw up a little in your mouth reading this 😁

 

In this horse riding course, I met a woman. Life had scarred her. She had deep wrinkles and a constant look of worry on her face. She was afraid of the horses a bit, afraid of galop, she was angry, she always found a negative thing about everything. The way you pick up the riding crop scares my horse. The way you stand here scares my horse. My horse is scared. This is dangerous. The economy is bad. War is coming. You have to grit your teeth and fight for your life.

 

She gave me advice, she said she had a dayjob she hated and then after those 8 hours she went to her side business she was building and worked on this way into the night. I said: How did you have the energy for this?
She said she didn't really care about this, she WANTED to work in this side business, it was interesting, motivating, so she did it. But I should plan 10 years of tedious grinding until my business could take off. Now she has a second house in Italy, horses, a car, etc..

 

Do I want that? Do I want to grind like this? To be like her? Actually nah. I stared at the ground for a while and said: Then I guess I do not care for my "side business" as much. Thinking of developer work. Websites. IT stuff. Gnah. 

 

I saw in her eyes how her opinion of me deteriorated, but I do not think life has to be that hard. Or maybe it has to. No idea. I don't want to be scared and afraid of everything. If I believe it, it will be true. For next challenge I will come up with goals again. Guess this here is a spontaneous come to Jesus challenge.

[Rookie]

32 minutes ago, Pyralis said:

Why are you on the non initiating side? It's not like I talk to people ALL THE TIME, I just notice there is a trend that I'm usually the one contacting others. I tried during the camp to drop it and it worked just fine, suddenly they were initiating conversations with me. 

I find I can be non initiating as well. Sometimes I get lonely then I will reach out but I am not great at small talk and even with my fiance I am bad at coming up with conversation lol I like just sitting in silence a lot. I probably bore the crap out of him too. He sometimes makes comments about how I am not talking but then I remind him he too isn't talking and talking about how I am not talking doesn't count  

 

32 minutes ago, Pyralis said:

I'm so glad I took this course, it was such a great week, had tons of energy and it was fun. I'm getting more lessons now on Icelandic horses and it's a wave of fresh air in life. 

It sounds like it was a really good opportunity and it gave you some space to re-evaluate some things. 

 

32 minutes ago, Pyralis said:

If I could, I would leave immediately to work on a horse farm, unfortunately it's not like they are waiting for me or it pays good. At least my starting point has changed now. It might not be a nice realization that I fooled myself like this, for years, for over a decade, but here we go. Thinking about contacting a coach or someone to help me figure this out. I think I will stay in my job and do my best, but now I can drop the burden of trying to change careers to something I also do not care for. 

That is the life haha I think I would like to do rehabilitation for horses but I would likely end up broke.

 

32 minutes ago, Pyralis said:

I think I should do things I want to do. Or should I do things I am good at? I forgot. I am not really good at anything, so maybe should go with what I want. Unapologetically doing what I want? I want to write. I want to help people. I want to go outside and connect and smell the earth and trees and touch fur and feel my body and be physically fit and mentally free. I hope now you didn't throw up a little in your mouth reading this 😁

I have a friend that writes for a non-profit that helps people. He seems fulfilled and she sometimes gets to travel for work. Or maybe you can find a therapy place or horse rescue you can volunteer at in your spare time. I think you should fill your time with things that make you happy. I don't really have the hustle for a side business. I kind of do my side business on my own leisure and I under charge. I'm not passionate about my job by any means but I don't mind it either.  But perhaps you can find something you love volunteering for and maybe there would be a job position eventually. You only really need to make enough money to cover your bills.

 

32 minutes ago, Pyralis said:

She gave me advice, she said she had a dayjob she hated and then after those 8 hours she went to her side business she was building and worked on this way into the night. I said: How did you have the energy for this?
She said she didn't really care about this, she WANTED to work in this side business, it was interesting, motivating, so she did it. But I should plan 10 years of tedious grinding until my business could take off. Now she has a second house in Italy, horses, a car, etc..

I love that for her but yah I definitely do not have that drive lol Maybe if it was horse related I would.

 

I think you need to have a talk with your boyfriend. It sounds like you are over your relationship with him but are just waiting for things to fall apart. Would it make a difference to you at this point if he did try harder? I am guessing he won't be able to change who he is and if you need someone who is able to carry intellectual conversations then that might not be him. 

[Elastigirl]

On 10/12/2022 at 4:28 AM, Pyralis said:

hy are you on the non initiating side? It's not like I talk to people ALL THE TIME, I just notice there is a trend that I'm usually the one contacting others. I tried during the camp to drop it and it worked just fine, suddenly they were initiating conversations with me. 

I think habit,  and selfishness. As an introvert , it seems easier to let others do it.  And I get in my own bubble and forget to reach out.  I just sort of always figured it was easier for others to contact me, and selfishly didn't think that they had to work to keep the friendship going. It's something I'm working on. I've even had it as a goal at times. 

 

For the job, 10 years of nose to the grindstone working a second job sounds exhausting! Even if it's something you enjoy, it seems like it would take over your life.  My thought is,  this lady built up her business enough she could afford a second house. Maybe there is an in between where you build up your business enough so you can pay bills with a little left over for some enjoyment that wouldn't be so time intensive? I also like Rookies idea of volunteering. 

[Sovalis]

One of my closest friends never volunteers information, ever. It is always on me to ask. I used to get very aggravated by this, so I finally asked her about it. She told me that she assumed that no one would find her interesting so she didn’t feel comfortable putting herself out there, even with me who had been a very close and actively engaged friend for years. This kind of blew my mind, because I think she’s very interesting. But it helped me gain some perspective on our situation and why it felt like I was always chasing her. Nothing has really changed in that relationship except my patience for drawing her out; I’m better with it now because I understand she has an issue in this area. It’s not something I am capable of solving, so it falls to me to accommodate because she is important to me. It might be that some of your friends are in similar boats and have self-perception or self-worth issues that are causing some unbalanced communication. It is up to you whether those relationships are important enough to try to understand and perhaps accommodate. You do you. 

 

Your situation with your boyfriend sounds similar to something I lived through. I made the decision to leave. Even as fed up as I was, it wasn’t easy. It was right for me, but it wasn’t as straightforward emotionally as I assumed it was going to be when I left. I worry a bit about you cutting everyone out at the same time because that might leave you very isolated in the event that you do need some kind of support. But again, you know your situation and your heart best. 

 

I am glad that you are finding some freedom and enjoyment along with your shift in perspective. Take care. 

[Pyralis]

On 10/12/2022 at 2:09 PM, Rookie said:

even with my fiance I am bad at coming up with conversation lol I like just sitting in silence a lot. I probably bore the crap out of him too. He sometimes makes comments about how I am not talking but then I remind him he too isn't talking and talking about how I am not talking doesn't count

Sitting together in silence is also nice, though. We often do talk about this and that. It's just with important topics, or anything beyond smalltalk, he never seems to have an opinion and just parrots what I say. If even he told me he's not interested.

 

On 10/12/2022 at 2:09 PM, Rookie said:

That is the life haha I think I would like to do rehabilitation for horses but I would likely end up broke.

Right? I recently thought I would like to be a therapist working with clients and horses. I bet it pays well. But horses are expensive. And I have zero qualifications.

 

On 10/12/2022 at 2:09 PM, Rookie said:

I'm not passionate about my job by any means but I don't mind it either.

Luckily in my company it's ok to have this attitude, as long as you do your job well enough. I still have this idea that something I spend so much time a day doing should be more fulfilling. 

The part about writing gave me an idea - often for these kind of jobs, you need to hand in something you have written. That is actually doable. Often I think I would like to apply to x job but do not have a portfolio and don't see myself making one. Even for jobs I could totally do, like some photo editing, I'm pretty good with Photoshop and could easily work somewhere pushing pixels, but I do not have a portfolio. I do it for fun in my free time, and I have lots of experience, but I never bothered to do it "for real" to show around, and whenever I thought about it, I thought "ugh". A friend suggested to create fake merchandise for a fake brand for a portfolio to get into this kind of job, but I simply don't want to. 
Writing though is actually doable, especially if it is something interesting. I could check for jobs requiring something written. 

Thanks for that! I mean, obviously thanks for your whole reply, to all of you!

 

On 10/12/2022 at 2:09 PM, Rookie said:

I think you need to have a talk with your boyfriend. It sounds like you are over your relationship with him but are just waiting for things to fall apart. Would it make a difference to you at this point if he did try harder?

Think it would make a difference and I'm not over it yet. We do talk a lot recently. I think the point is that I feel hurt that he doesn't seem willing to face the issues we have. That he refuses to hear and see that it hurts me, and in the long run, us, when he isn't willing to stand up and deal with things. He tried to describe to me yesterday how I had written so much during the therapy and he read it and didn't know what to do with it, and first I couldn't understand why not, when it dawned on me: Because he's taking the role of the co-driver. It's like in work situations when you are below someone and are waiting for them to process information and do the work. You observe, you might even understand what is being said, but since you are not responsible, you do not channel the info into action, and therefore also do not proactively tackle the task. If you alone were responsible for the result, you would maybe ask questions, read the information provided differently, and try to make out next steps for your actual action. My bf is behaving like the relationship is done to him, not like he actively shapes it. Therefore he doesn't go into situations like he actually decides anything or needs to come up with an action. It's just thrown at him and he sits there and shuts down in defeat. He said he had the impression me and the therapist wanted to just scold him. I said NO, I was waiting for you to step up and step in and say something and deal with what was said, not collapse in silence.

No idea if he got it. If he gets it. My main goal is not to invest too much, as I said.. Money, time. Put it on hold for a bit. 

lol my favorite counter argument (he did not bring but I was expecting) would be: What if I threw all of this at you? What would you do? Wouldn't you be overwhelmed?
Nah. It would be like finding water in the desert. I'd look up into the sky, tears of gratefulness rolling down my face, raise my hands and shout: OH THANK YOU. thank you for this gift of information I can actually do something with!!! Please. Give ME MORE INFORMATION.
 

 

On 10/13/2022 at 6:32 PM, Elastigirl said:

and selfishly didn't think that they had to work to keep the friendship going

 I see, and I get it. It can be hard to reach out, especially if you do not feel the need to communicate all the time. I think what we tend to forget is that it can hurt people we like because it might be perceived as not being interested in them and what they're up to. But of course it also depends on how invested we are in each other's lives. And how people react when you reach out. Some reply in this way that you can not reply to. Like wishing you a nice day after 1 sentence. Or using 1 word replies. Is this a hint? I am never sure if I am not getting hints or am overreacting and overinterpreting. It's text, after all.. Kudos to you for working on this, btw! it's good to read your perspective!

 

On 10/13/2022 at 10:54 PM, Sovalis said:

so I finally asked her about it

Do you remember how? The words you chose? The situation?

 

 

On 10/13/2022 at 10:54 PM, Sovalis said:

It is up to you whether those relationships are important enough to try to understand and perhaps accommodate. You do you. 

Hmmm. There is this thing I do not understand in general: Why it is a big deal for so many. I always liked to chat and talk and the back and forth. Didn't need to be with close friends even. But many people are so overwhelmed by this. I get that it is not feasible for most people who have otherwise busy lives. But I also do not get why most people do not seem to be interested in conversations in general. Another phenomenon I do not get is when you have fun talks with someone and they seem to have fun and you go way over the time, so that I even already feel a bit uncomfortable in the end because they do not stop talking and it's late, and then they never contact you again. 

 

I've learned that usually people do not have issues with others but themselves, but we project it on ourselves and feel hurt. Like the friend you mention who had an issue with herself and you felt rejected and took it personally (like everybody would). It's just this pet peeve of mine that I simply do not understand how people tick, why they're cool and easygoing but then never interested in me anymore. I also know it's normal when you leave a school, job or any other situation where you were forced to deal with certain people and friendships form, these friendships often do not last. But I also know many people in their 30s report it's very hard to find friends, and it's hard to not think bad about yourself when you keep trying to be open and social despite the setbacks and still people hardly reciprocate.

 

That group from the vacation, a whatsapp group was created, the first 2 days we were writing this and that there, horse and riding related stuff, now it is silent. Why? Do they not care for horses or riding anymore? Do they not want to talk about it? Doesn't look like it. But they seemed so super invested during the course. Now I and another woman are the only people still invested in this and interested in the group members. I've already accepted it and do not write there anymore, but understand it I can not (is that even proper structure of a sentence?)

 

On 10/13/2022 at 10:54 PM, Sovalis said:

Even as fed up as I was, it wasn’t easy. It was right for me, but it wasn’t as straightforward emotionally as I assumed it was going to be when I left.

Do you care to elaborate? Were you living together? And why wasn't it as emotional as you thought? 

Maybe it is necessary for me/us that we get over this. Clearly our relationship dynamic is unhealthy. I managed to mother someone again despite me not wanting to do it anymore. I am bored by being passive. I hate waiting for others. Maybe it's time for us to deal with this and develop ways together to function differently. I still want to keep dropping the reins for a while and see what happens. Maybe this doesn't help me personally at all because with another person I would not have these issues. But maybe I would. 

Thank you for your kind words, I am not cutting everyone off but I know it sounds like it. But even if I did - I am used to being alone anyway. This sounds bitter, but is not meant this way. I've been very fine all on my own for years and if this relationship reaches a point where I feel more content alone, I will go back to it. 

[Elastigirl]

55 minutes ago, Pyralis said:

I think what we tend to forget is that it can hurt people we like because it might be perceived as not being interested in them and what they're up to. But of course it also depends on how invested we are in each other's lives. And how people react when you reach

Exactly. When I finally realized that, is when I decided it was something to work on. 

[Sovalis]

On 10/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Pyralis said:

Do you remember how? The words you chose? The situation?
 

I don’t know why the webpage isn’t doing the normal Quoting thing, sorry.

 

I made sure we were in person because she doesn’t have many “tells” in text communication (her body language isn’t much better, but something to gauge reactions by is better than nothing). And then I said very straightforwardly “I feel like our relationship is changing and I am feeling exhausted because I feel like I need to hound you for information all the time. Is this also your perception of things?” She told me that she felt my level of initiating conversation was too low for her to feel like I wanted or needed her around, which was news to me as I felt I reached out quite often, probably equal to how often she did. But for her that wasn’t enough for her to feel valued. I asked her what I could do that would help her feel valued because I did value her. I said that I would rather do the things that made her feel better than waste effort doing things that I thought were nice that didn’t read as satisfying for her. She told me that she wanted me to reach out more and to keep asking her questions. I agreed to try. I don’t think I make contact enough for her taste even still, but I think it’s better than it was. 

 

Do you care to elaborate? Were you living together? And why wasn't it as emotional as you thought? 

 

I was married to him for seven years. We owned a house and I had worked while he went to grad school. The situation felt very unbalanced to me and I felt very responsible for managing our housework, social lives, and smoothing over his relationships with other people (he was a narcissist, albeit a very charismatic and popular one). I felt like I was mothering him constantly and at the same time, he had an alarming amount of control over my life, including our finances. I wasn’t in control of my clothing, my hairstyle, where or when I could go out with friends. I wasn’t allowed to drive our car. It was a bad situation. I was young and didn’t have the experience to understand what was going on. I got to the point where I was so depressed that I thought it was better to die than to keep going. I wasn’t suicidal, but I was having wishes of escape. Eventually I had a breakthrough and left. I applied to grad school because scholarships were the only way I could think of to support myself and get myself away from him, moved a province away, and started over from scratch. Our divorce took seven years to conclude and left me with nothing but PTSD. It doesn’t sound like your situation is as controlling as mine (I hope that is true) but that you are struggling to feel met as an equal partner. That is a valid reason to start over. When I met my now-husband it was like everything clicked into place. I had no idea how easy it could be to be with someone until Dave. 

 

Leaving was more emotional than I thought, not less. There was a lot of sadness and grief: I had loved this man for many years. He was a huge part of me coming into my adulthood and many powerful firsts (home ownership, undergraduate degree, car ownership, navigating in laws, having “adult” friendships, the list goes on). I had dreamed of growing old and retiring with him, travelling, building a house. It was hard to lose those dreams, even if living with him was a nightmare. I had tried everything I could think of to make things work but my best was never enough and so I was dealing with crushing feelings of failure and not being good enough. I have some personality quirks that set me up to spiral down when I feel I am failing people, so this was very, very bad for me, because not only was I failing him by not being a good wife, I was also failing my family by getting a divorce, my friends by making them choose between us (even if you don’t want that to happen, it will), etc., etc. I also had to grapple with realizing that I had failed myself by letting the relationship last as long as it did once I realized how toxic and abusive it had gotten; I had a lot of (very legitimate) fear about what kind of retaliation he would bring to bear if I left. That was part of why I moved to a different province. I needed to be physically safe. On the heels of my grief and sadness was a lot of anger, which I had no idea how to manage. I was angry with him, angry with myself for letting it get that bad, angry with lawyers and laws for making it so hard to be truly separate, angry with friends and family even (on a smaller scale) for not speaking to me when they saw things they thought were problematic (Sooooo many people said “We knew you were in trouble” after the fact, but only two were brave enough to say it to my face beforehand). Loneliness was a really problem. I had to relearn how to socialize and how to be alone. It was a complicated time. 

 

I don’t regret it. It was so very, very hard and recovery still progresses even though we have been apart now for ten years. There are some things that probably won’t ever go away but I know I will keep getting better at managing my reactions to them. I finished grad school, found love again, and grew into a wonderful new relationship that made me realize why people pair bond in the first place. I wouldn’t be the partner Dave gets without my first marriage and everything I learned in it. I am proud of who I am as a person because those experiences definitely made me learn all about my strengths and failings and I have worked hard with that knowledge to be a better person. 

Thank you for your kind words, I am not cutting everyone off but I know it sounds like it. But even if I did - I am used to being alone anyway. This sounds bitter, but is not meant this way. I've been very fine all on my own for years and if this relationship reaches a point where I feel more content alone, I will go back to it. 

 

I do very much understand the contentedness that being alone can bring. If that is what you need right now, do it. Dave is in the army and is gone a lot so I get the best of both worlds in a way, the emotional and financial stability of a partnership with a lot of solo independent time. I value that alone time a lot. Thinking of you! 

Now it’s working right. Ugh, technology. Please read what I wrote in the quote box and I apologize for the formatting weirdness. 

[Pyralis]

19 hours ago, Sovalis said:

She told me that she felt my level of initiating conversation was too low for her to feel like I wanted or needed her around, which was news to me as I felt I reached out quite often

This sounds so paradoxical because you felt you had to hound her for information but yet she felt like you didn't reach out enough. Kinda crazy. Not you or her, the situation. Reminds me of a friend who later said she was disappointed with me because in a time when she was very depressed, I did not force her like another friend did. Like, force her out of the house, force her to group therapy. Well, "force", convince. I was a bit speechless because for me, the other friend who "forced" her always seemed very intrusive for my taste. It was exactly what she needed, but I wasn't close enough to her to intrude in this kind of way. I did visit her on her birthday with a present, and checked in on her, and I was also fending off this other friend who tried to force his self help stuff on me. Everybody has a different perception, no wonder these things can be so difficult.

 

Was it weird for you to hear it though? That she feels you do not reach out enough?

 

19 hours ago, Sovalis said:

he was a narcissist, albeit a very charismatic and popular one

What you describe, and the control he had - I think it's easy to fall for this kind of stuff, even though later, when out of these kind of relationships, we might think: Wow. How could that ever happen? 

Had a narcissist male friend when I was in my early 20s, and when I later read my journal entries of that time.. the stuff I tolerated. I feel like after such a relationship/friendship, you refine your senses and things you watch out for, and you might not fall again for the very blatant stuff, but it's still easier than thought to fall for it. Sometimes I wonder if it is a trauma thing, like this: 

 

19 hours ago, Sovalis said:

I have some personality quirks that set me up to spiral down when I feel I am failing people, so this was very, very bad for me,

Like, you have this elaborate alarm system maybe after such an experience but someone can manage to push the right buttons and AGAIN you find yourself entangled with someone like this. I had to force myself very hard to cut contact immediately at first signs even though I liked people (usually men) and understood them, but had to learn to trust my experience and leave it be, knowing it wouldn't get better over time.

 

Sometimes I wonder if my bf is a covert narcissist. Sometimes I wonder if I am a narcissist. The therapist told me, I hope I am not repeating myself, that my bf's way of simply not doing things is one of the most powerful demonstrations of ... power. And it's true. Even though he might not be actively DOING something, he is deciding like this what we do and what we don't do.

 

19 hours ago, Sovalis said:

He was a huge part of me coming into my adulthood and many powerful firsts

This is so relatable! Do you think he preyed on you and did this on purpose? 

 

I have no idea if my friend back then did (we were very close but never sexually intimate or in a relationship, yet together all the time), knowing someone in their early 20s would not reject him like an older woman seeing right through his bs would. He kept having a tendency to befriend younger women and trying to leech off of them, so I think there definitely was some calculation on his part, as well as moving very fast, bonding strongly and early, and I, stupid as I was, TOLD him that I didn't have many friends and experience and all.

 

I just know that I could never behave this way towards younger, inexperienced friends, could never take advantage like this.

 

19 hours ago, Sovalis said:

I had a lot of (very legitimate) fear about what kind of retaliation he would bring to bear if I left. That was part of why I moved to a different province. I needed to be physically safe. On the heels of my grief and sadness was a lot of anger, which I had no idea how to manage. I was angry with him, angry with myself for letting it get that bad, angry with lawyers and laws for making it so hard to be truly separate, angry with friends and family even (on a smaller scale) for not speaking to me when they saw things they thought were problematic (Sooooo many people said “We knew you were in trouble” after the fact, but only two were brave enough to say it to my face beforehand)

 

Again, I understand you so well! The anger I know myself. I found myself being angry after the friendship ended and before it ended (I tried cutting him off twice before I did for good, both times he lured me right back in with promises and said he had gone to therapy and would change, only to throw another tempter tantrum in the car while driving, having me fear for my life (again). And after a relationship where the guy completely leeched off me (a different one) and mistook me for his mom, I found myself angry as well. And yes, I know those people who do not interfere. Even my parents did not. They did not even think it's weird that her 21yr old daughter has a 35yr old guy attached to the hip. They even said we might be like Harry and Sally. YUCK. When I told them later what he said and did and how he threatened and endangered me and his violent fantasies and all, they simply said.. nothing. Only "Good you cut him off". Until this day I find myself scared he might still think of us. He has wrote mails and sms once or twice the last years, trying to provoke reaction. Do you know the book "The gift of fear" ? It helped me tremendously. Not typing my experience to divert, btw, just want to say: I can relate. It was different, sure, but I appreciate you sharing this and I think getting out of this, even if it required moving, which I can fully understand as well, was the best thing for you. And so happy you found a new relationship where it all is much easier!

 

Does your ex still reach out? And did you talk these things through with Dave? 

 

19 hours ago, Sovalis said:

It doesn’t sound like your situation is as controlling as mine (I hope that is true) but that you are struggling to feel met as an equal partner. That is a valid reason to start over. When I met my now-husband it was like everything clicked into place. I had no idea how easy it could be to be with someone until Dave. 

Yeah, it's not like that. The thing is - when you have been in bad relationships, you tend to see everything that is not as bad as good. Even when it is not even that good. And we had those "clicked into place" moments, too. But maybe it was me overrating a lack of abuse. I felt great in the beginning with my bf because I felt he wasn't judging and constantly teasing and making me feel wrong. Around the time we met, I had met another guy that I cut off shortly after because he was negging me all the time and despite liking him (you know, I like the challenges and the difficult people because the drama is interesting and I have to force myself not to waste my time with that), I decided "Nah, never again". I thought maybe the a bit boring time with my - then new - bf was HEALING and that I had now changed with my partner selection. We did not have good and interesting talks but we did things together. The latest ex who leeched off me had always talked a lot and made promises, my bf seemed like the opposite, and the opposite seemed good. 

 

But now.. An hour ago I tried initiating a conversation about what we want in life because it is something I am very busy with atm thinking about and trying to figure out and I was just in general harping on about how the universe doesn't simply assign you stuff, and how that is a good thing, then how can you want something and freely decide with your free will what you want, if it gets assigned from above, but how I wished back then someone would just assign me my life purpose. And how therapists also can't do this for you and it's always work and this is good because can you take someone seriously who doesn't know you and tells you what to do and what is right? Nah. I thought the topic would be interesting for him because he's considering therapy and said he didn't like that our couples therapist didn't engage him more. I said it's not how it works, you have to do the work and engage the therapist, you have to be active, you want something, and you "use" the therapist to help you, the therapist isn't interested in making you like this or that. 

 

 

He looked at me dumbfounded. As always. It's not like I dumped the whole paragraph from above without a break on him. I tried to engage him. Nope. I mean, I said I was harping on, but usually there is no reaction, then I say it differently, wait, no reaction or acknowledgement whatsoever, etc.. Why do I even still say something? OHHHHHH I just had an epiphany again. If you never react and this has the other person harp on, the other person is the bad guy. Again. Doing things to you. Furthering strenghtening this dynamic. I SHOULD shut up. 

 

Then he stuttered and mumbled some agreement. Okay, to be fair, he is working. I do not understand how your mind can be SO FULLY occupied ALL THE TIME that you can't think about anything else in some spare 5 minutes but fine. Even when we are walking somewhere or grocery shopping and talk about this kind of stuff he suddenly gets so INVOLVED with a branch on the way and carefully stepping over it, or an item in the store, that I wonder, bro, is this really using up all your brain capacity right now that you can't follow a simple thought train? 

 

I feel wrong. I even wondered if I am just autistic and infodumping my sh*t on him. He's the poor victim, of course, and overwhelmed by my constant demands of having conversations other than "what do we eat today", "have you closed the bedroom window", "i am going for a walk". 

 

And this is the devilish thing about our relationship. He's not OPENLY abusive. I can't make him the bad guy. Then it would be easy. Maybe I am the bad guy here. Sometimes i wonder if I am trying to villainize one of us so I can finally make the decision to get out. 

 

This is not directed to anyone specific so do not feel like you need to read it or react. In fact, I do not expect responses ever, even though I am happy when someone does, of course ❤️ 
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Tomorrow is our anniversary and I do not have a thing for him. 5 years. Didn't feel like dealing with it and buying him presents he then ignores. Something he does as well. Ignoring presents. Pretending nothing is there. I asked him recently why he does it and he said: "I thought it was gonna be a surprise and I wasn't supposed to see it and I didn't want to ruin it"
I said: "Sure. In all those occasions where I put it openly for you to find on your desk/bed/etc., it was always something I accidentally did and you didn't want to ruin the surprise. Gotcha"
He said he doesn't know why he behaved the way he did. Maybe it IS all just a giant misunderstanding where someone is insecure and the other interprets is as constant disinterest. This is not unlikely. But jeez. Am I the insecure guy rehabilitation center? I am ALSO insecure and have to deal with it. Since when is that a reason for everything and anything? At least you could voice it. 

 

I will not ramble on and go to my riding lesson now. Take care.