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Thursday 05 01


Did DBs, art, walk, and getting dressed properly. Did not fast but ate food (nosnack) early. Currently ravenous and intermittent fasting is not meant to be awful. I failed noscroll.

Doing better today in terms of focus. Not excellent, but better. I think avoiding scrolling might have made me more agitated and unfocused... Is that possible? I think I use it with music and caffeine to get to a feel-good-enough-to-get-started state. Anyway, I watched some art videos, didn't do a whole lot but reflected on the fact that what I need to develop is patience. I also need to have reference materials on hand, and a plan for what I want to do, and I need this to be prepared beforehand, not when I sit down to work, otherwise it's just demotivating and hard to get started. So I could make some preparation part of my afternoon routine. I am thinking about purchasing an inexpensive reference pack because free photos are terrible, and have a variety of copyright and other licenses which mean you can't sell work made from them, and it might even be bad to share studies made from them. There are copyright free photos available, but it's often hard to get exactly what I want. There are no nude figures on unsplash, for example, though it has lots of landscapes and clothed figures.

I only ate beef and dairy today, and I am bottomless. Shouldn't steak be satiating?

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Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the Viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the Artist

You can absorb me! - Harriet the Contextless Guru

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2 hours ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

giphy.gif

 

Three? Just checking. Just checking that that's the limit. The maximum limit. Right?

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Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the Viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the Artist

You can absorb me! - Harriet the Contextless Guru

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10 minutes ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

I was not aware there was a limit beyond one's perception of stomach pain.


I have stomach pain, but in association with ongoing hunger. I think the problem was that the steaks were too small. It came in one large chunk, and I cut it into manageable pieces. But three pieces only added up to 430g. And that, you see, is why I had to eat 600g of heavy cream. And some butter. Straight butter. Just out of the fridge, you know. Next time, the singular steak serving should be 200g. And *then* I should eat three.

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Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the Viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the Artist

You can absorb me! - Harriet the Contextless Guru

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10 hours ago, Harriet said:

Oh, interesting as regards the immune system. I didn't know that. Is it more a long term effect, though, like caloric deficit for 3+ months? That's when I understand the negative hormonal effects to really ramp up. And why isn't the deficit just made up from my stored body fat? Isn't that what it's for? (I'm at the high end of 'normal' BMI so I'm in no danger of wasting away any time soon).

Well, it's a stressor to the body and any stressor takes resources away from the immune system. It's why intense training is a pretty bad idea when you're feeling a bit off- the stress from the training is likely to push you over the edge towards feeling properly ill. 

 

10 hours ago, Harriet said:

There are some things that are clear to me, like that a lot of chronic diseases arrived after modern foods, and are therefore not inevitable. This makes messing with diet pretty much irresistible to me, since I have a chronic disease that I really don't want. What's less clear is which elements of the nutritional change are causal, and which are curative, and for which individuals (because removing the cause doesn't necessarily effect a cure after a systematic, self-sustaining change has taken place, and a cure doesn't necessarily imply that its own absence was the cause).

Oh yes it's pretty clear that eating healthy is a very good idea, it's just not super clear what eating healthy is exactly- even the Palaeolithic model doesn't work because those circumstances don't really exist anymore and we have no idea how to recreate them. It's also never going to be clear because research on the subject is an absolute nightmare- but you already know this. All the compelling anecdotes are also tricky, because yes this person might feel infinitely better on diet A, like a vegetarian feeling great- but is he feeling great because he's not eating meat anymore or because he's started eating more vegetables? We'll never know. And more importantly- we also don't know for how long he'll be feeling great until the negatives of this diet will start showing their impact. 

 

10 hours ago, Harriet said:

Wow, you really noticed what was going on with me ❤️ I am touched.  We may never know how dairy affects me, because it is more or less fixed. I think I tried dropping it but gave up after one or two weeks.

I do feel really compelled to try carnivore. I know it is strange. But the anecdotes of improvements are just hugely tempting to me as someone trapped in a life-ruining illness that is unexplained and untreatable by conventional means. And the changes on keto were interesting, promising, but didn't quite go all the way... (I might also have a compulsion to tinker with diet, I suppose. But it could be worse. I don't do cocaine or skydiving. There are definitely less wholesome hobbies.) My main reason for not giving it a three month trial is Mr Harriet. Things have settled down there as regards discussions and comments, but I think that's partly because I reintroduced more plant foods, cook shared dinners for us, and eat takeaway with him once or twice a week.

 

Maybe I could cook for him and just sit down and eat something else, like some frozen cream, at the same table. The nice thing is I could then cook anything I wanted for him without worrying about tailoring it to be both vegetarian and no grain. The question is, would he be weird about it or would he be supportive or at least neutral? And what would I do about takeaway? His favourite place is a vegetarian asian restaurant where everything has wheat and is likely deep fried in industrial seed oils. Maybe I can push us towards sushi instead, and just get a soup when we order from the house of frazzled seed oils.

Ofcourse :) I don't often feel like I have something useful to add, but I do pay attention. 

 

For the carnivore diet the above very much applies, I think that people starting on it can feel great for a while because they're not eating a lot of stuff and some of that stuff might not agree with them BUT in the long run will they still feel great or will they be missing out on nutrients or fiber or will their gut microbes get too much out of whack? How many of those wonderful anecdotes have given an update 2-3 years later? I'm not saying "don't try" but.. it might be more trouble than it's worth at the moment? of course we can't know that, if it does magically cure you then it's worth a lot of trouble, but the chances of that are (I am sorry to say) quite slim. Not all chronic illnesses are caused or affected by diet. And while we know that at least your anxiety is definitely very much impacted by diet, that (unfortunately?) doesn't mean that the rest of your symptoms are too. It might be more worthwhile to optimise what you're doing now?

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2023 goals tracker; 206,7/5000km & reading to my kids 16/365 days (updated jan-20)

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12 hours ago, KB Girl said:

Well, it's a stressor to the body and any stressor takes resources away from the immune system. It's why intense training is a pretty bad idea when you're feeling a bit off- the stress from the training is likely to push you over the edge towards feeling properly ill. 

 

Makes sense. Many stressors are good in moderation, but not when piled on other stress.

 

12 hours ago, KB Girl said:

For the carnivore diet the above very much applies, I think that people starting on it can feel great for a while because they're not eating a lot of stuff and some of that stuff might not agree with them BUT in the long run will they still feel great or will they be missing out on nutrients or fiber or will their gut microbes get too much out of whack? How many of those wonderful anecdotes have given an update 2-3 years later? I'm not saying "don't try" but.. it might be more trouble than it's worth at the moment? of course we can't know that, if it does magically cure you then it's worth a lot of trouble, but the chances of that are (I am sorry to say) quite slim. Not all chronic illnesses are caused or affected by diet. And while we know that at least your anxiety is definitely very much impacted by diet, that (unfortunately?) doesn't mean that the rest of your symptoms are too.

 

There is some long term evidence of different kinds, yes. It appears to be safe, at the very least.

 

12 hours ago, KB Girl said:

It might be more worthwhile to optimise what you're doing now?

 

What am I doing now? I don't even know 😭 But maybe I could start with things I'm more certain about, like avoiding grains.

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Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the Viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the Artist

You can absorb me! - Harriet the Contextless Guru

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6 hours ago, Rookie said:

I also like pixabay

 


It's no good for figures, sadly. It's like unsplash, but with more content/less curated. ETA I found these results when searching 'figure' lol:

 

Spoiler

miniature-figure-1745753_960_720.jpgman-1770309_960_720.png

 

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Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the Viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the Artist

You can absorb me! - Harriet the Contextless Guru

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I'm sorry food is so stressful, it sounds like it's really troubling you again, or at least more than usual. :( Fwiw reading through your posts it sounds like IF might not be for you. Not sure if it's because of the deficit or because of the fasting itself but the binge reactions, food thoughts and perpetual sickness kinda indicate something's not working here. IF is not meant to be awful, but for many people it is.

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49 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

I'm sorry food is so stressful, it sounds like it's really troubling you again, or at least more than usual.

 

What? No, I love obsessing over food and my weight, it's better than jigsaw puzzles. But seriously, thank you.

 

49 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

:( Fwiw reading through your posts it sounds like IF might not be for you. Not sure if it's because of the deficit or because of the fasting itself but the binge reactions, food thoughts and perpetual sickness kinda indicate something's not working here. IF is not meant to be awful, but for many people it is.


I was sick for months before starting IF, and it was going well until I bought the licorice. I cannot be trusted with sweets in the house. Unless eating a lot of sweets is consistent with my goals. I took a sharp turn back to low-plant-high-meat keto and it is making fasting impossible because I am ravenous. This steak is TOO LEAN. Anyway, I know I want to keep experimenting, but can't decide what. Maybe not IF right now since really strong hunger precludes it. It should be challenging at most, and not in total opposition to my instincts, and shouldn't feel like a punishment.

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Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the Viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the Artist

You can absorb me! - Harriet the Contextless Guru

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Friday 06 01


I did DBs, got dressed, did art, went for a walk after lunch. Attempted neither no-scroll nor fasting, but have eaten food, not snacks. Yes, frozen cream is food, not snack.

 

I learned a useful tip for shading, and practiced some value studies.

 

The Germans. Make lean beef with grass. And then trim it tightly for lipophobes. Sadness is mine.


ETA I'm not actually sad. Mood and energy GOOD, focus OKAY

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Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the Viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the Artist

You can absorb me! - Harriet the Contextless Guru

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7 minutes ago, Harriet said:

What? No, I love obsessing over food and my weight, it's better than jigsaw puzzles. But seriously, thank you.

Oh I know. :P But you sounded calmer about it for a while. 

 

8 minutes ago, Harriet said:

I took a sharp turn back to low-plant-high-meat keto and it is making fasting impossible because I am ravenous. This steak is TOO LEAN.

I feel you. I find it super challenging to eat enough calories without having to supplement with cookies. With "IF", ahem getting distracted skipping breakfast, sometimes lunch, it's almost impossible to eat enough in 1-2 sittings without feeling gross. But then the next day it really backfires when I'm ravenous or super weak or both.

 

12 minutes ago, Harriet said:

It should be challenging at most, and not in total opposition to my instincts, and shouldn't feel like a punishment.

Absolutely, that's a good attitude!

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4 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

Oh I know. :P But you sounded calmer about it for a while. 

 

I realised I shouldn't talk too much about it here or you'll get me committed for ortho or just plain crazed or something.

 

4 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

I feel you. I find it super challenging to eat enough calories without having to supplement with cookies. With "IF", ahem getting distracted skipping breakfast, sometimes lunch, it's almost impossible to eat enough in 1-2 sittings without feeling gross. But then the next day it really backfires when I'm ravenous or super weak or both.

 

Not eating enough calories unintentionally has never, ever, ever happened to me. I love calories. I believe Sara has the same problem as you, however.

Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the Viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the Artist

You can absorb me! - Harriet the Contextless Guru

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22 minutes ago, Harriet said:

I realised I shouldn't talk too much about it here or you'll get me committed for ortho or just plain crazed or something.

Nah this is probably the best place for talking about this kind of stuff! There's a lot of smart people around who instead of spewing fanatic ideals can have balanced conversations. With science. It's quite a special corner of the Internet. I mean I can't honestly say your obsession seems entirely healthy, but it's also extremely understandable and I'm certainly not one to judge. I only wish it'd cause you less stress. :)

 

31 minutes ago, Harriet said:

Not eating enough calories unintentionally has never, ever, ever happened to me. I love calories. I believe Sara has the same problem as you, however.

Sure but even if the intention/lack thereof is different, the end effect is quite the same!

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1 hour ago, Tanktimus the Encourager said:

If steak is too lean finish it with butter; put a pat of butter at the end of cook time.

 

I added butter, warmed slightly until the butter was not melted but wilting slightly, added EVEN MOAR SALT and ate. Not bad.

 

1 hour ago, Mad Hatter said:

Nah this is probably the best place for talking about this kind of stuff! There's a lot of smart people around who instead of spewing fanatic ideals can have balanced conversations. With science. It's quite a special corner of the Internet. I mean I can't honestly say your obsession seems entirely healthy, but it's also extremely understandable and I'm certainly not one to judge. I only wish it'd cause you less stress. :)

 

I'm not stressed I'm pleasantly wired! Wheeeeeeee! I wish I were thin, though.

 

1 hour ago, Mad Hatter said:

Sure but even if the intention/lack thereof is different, the end effect is quite the same!

 

Luckily I cannot sustain deliberate caloric deficits, either. Ah, nature, you give me what I need but NOT WHAT I WANT. Damn this robust and healthy but unfashionable chonky pear shape!

 

1 hour ago, Salinger said:

hey Harriet 

fiweionionio§jnknnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

 

Hey Bronze 😃

 

1 hour ago, Salinger said:

ooops. Bronze leant on the laptop! haha guess she is saying hello too ❤️

 

It's just what I needed. Thank you both ❤️

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Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the Viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the Artist

You can absorb me! - Harriet the Contextless Guru

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By Tyr the most valiant I verily did consume 750g of steak today, and still wasn't satisfied. Not until I finished my second tub of cream. Now, finally, the void is filled. It was an expensive and dissatisfying experiment and I will not repeat it. I also note that butter, especially when melted, doesn't seem to contribute as much to satiety as the fat that is built-in to whole foods.

 

I am listening to a discussion between Amber O'Hearn (promotes high fat) and Ted Naiman (promotes high protein) and they pretty much agree that the wide variation in individual response makes a universal prescription impossible. Most important for me was Amber mentioning that, recently when she was ill, her ketones dropped (she measures them regularly because she uses them to manage a mental/neurological condition... it's not necessary for most people) while her diet stayed the same. She needed to shift to a 2:1 ratio instead of her usual 1:1 ratio to get her usual high ketones back. Naiman, a doctor, jumped in and said that sickness and other high cortisol states increase lean mass break down, increasing gluconeogenesis and therefore, presumably, reducing the ratio and reducing ketones. It didn't occur to me that muscle break down should count as dietary protein lol. I think in combination with my experience today and yesterday (the profound lack of satiation eating lean meat) this really answers the fat vs protein question for me, at this time. High protein is great for weight loss for healthy people, but for therapeutic ketone levels for mental illness, or for sick people with increased cortisol or lean mass break down, high fat is the way to go. I think that's what I'll try, unless I start craving something else or unless I'm choosing a non-ketogenic diet (I will likely cycle from one to the other through the year). I think listening to them has also helped me confirm that instinctive preferences matter, and likely reflect real processes and states in the body. Except the craving for licorice, that's a fucking lie.


Also... I ate 3500 calories today. At this rate, I will soon erase the deficit I so effortfully created over the last two weeks by fasting and eating magic noodles... It's almost as if I'm going to eat the same calories no matter what, so I might as well just focus on quality and getting some exercise. In fact, Naiman mentioned something like this. He was referencing the interesting recent work on metabolism by Ponzer, which is based on the Hadza. They're a modern hunter gatherer group. So what they found is that the Hadza eat roughly the same calories as overweight, sedentary westerners, and have roughly the same total daily energy expenditure, despite being a lot smaller and walking about 20000 steps per day. Naiman proposes that the body wants to be in a high input/high output state, and that if you don't give it exercise and lean mass to burn more, it will increase output by getting fat.

 

I am not going to over exercise, that is stupid. But I hope to increase gradually. This might even be easier if I accept that my brain will set my calorie intake and if I decide not to try to interfere. In Berkeley, when I was doing a lot of exercise, I was eating freely and hitting about 2800 calories (when I bothered to count) but I was also a bit fatter, possibly because of lower quality foods like cookies!!!! cookies! COOKIES

 

Also, why for the love of Thor have the Germans bred their cattle SO LEAN? Mager, it's called in German. Famine cows, that's what they are. Riders of doom along with the cattle of pestilence, war and death. If I want to buy 'bio', and I do, the only cuts that are appropriate are ground beef, short ribs, and maybe brisket when I spot it, if it still has the fat on.

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Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the Viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the Artist

You can absorb me! - Harriet the Contextless Guru

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33 minutes ago, Harriet said:

He was referencing the interesting recent work on metabolism by Ponzer, which is based on the Hadza. They're a modern hunter gatherer group. So what they found is that the Hadza eat roughly the same calories as overweight, sedentary westerners, and have roughly the same total daily energy expenditure, despite being a lot smaller and walking about 20000 steps per day. Naiman proposes that the body wants to be in a high input/high output state, and that if you don't give it exercise and lean mass to burn more, it will increase output by getting fat.

I remember hearing about this on a podcast, and having my mind blown. I think there is something to the lean mass. We live in a wonderful time, where we don't have to haul wood for fuel, or haul water to our house to drink and bathe in. But, the disadvantage to that is we have very little muscle.

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1 hour ago, Harriet said:

Ah, nature, you give me what I need but NOT WHAT I WANT.

but you can change what you want…

 

10 minutes ago, Harriet said:

Also, why for the love of Thor have the Germans bred their cattle SO LEAN? Mager, it's called in German. Famine cows, that's what they are. Riders of doom along with the cattle of pestilence, war and death. I

😂 My guess is because before sugar phobia there was fat phobia? 
 

17 minutes ago, Elastigirl said:

I remember hearing about this on a podcast, and having my mind blown. I think there is something to the lean mass. We live in a wonderful time, where we don't have to haul wood for fuel, or haul water to our house to drink and bathe in. But, the disadvantage to that is we have very little muscle.

But if they’re also a lot smaller wouldn’t that cancel out? 🤔

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25 minutes ago, Elastigirl said:

I remember hearing about this on a podcast, and having my mind blown. I think there is something to the lean mass. We live in a wonderful time, where we don't have to haul wood for fuel, or haul water to our house to drink and bathe in. But, the disadvantage to that is we have very little muscle.

 

5 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

But if they’re also a lot smaller wouldn’t that cancel out? 🤔


Yeah very heavy people actually have more lean mass. It's less as a percent, but more as a total. Obese westerners spend more calories just maintaining their weight. Ponzer suggested that in the small, active Hadza, the portion of TDEE lost to exercise was subtracted from inflammatory and immune processes. Which suggests that being sedentary may leave us TOO MUCH energy for these processes, and contribute to chronic disease. Just a hypothesis of his.

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Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the Viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the Artist

You can absorb me! - Harriet the Contextless Guru

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On 1/5/2023 at 1:26 PM, Harriet said:

I have stomach pain, but in association with ongoing hunger. I think the problem was that the steaks were too small. It came in one large chunk, and I cut it into manageable pieces. But three pieces only added up to 430g. And that, you see, is why I had to eat 600g of heavy cream. And some butter. Straight butter. Just out of the fridge, you know. Next time, the singular steak serving should be 200g. And *then* I should eat three.

 

A typical serving size for a hamburger is 150g. Three servings of that size are not a lot, especially if you are not eating other things on the side.

 

11 hours ago, Harriet said:

What am I doing now? I don't even know 😭 But maybe I could start with things I'm more certain about, like avoiding grains.

 

I think that is an excellent plan. Speaking from my own (recent) experience rather than statistics, I find that the aftereffects of eating dairy show up too much later for me to make the mental connection. If I feel bad within an hour or two, my brain marks that food as a Bad Thing. If I get achey 12-24 hours later, there is no connection. I might know intellectually what the prime culprit is for the pain, but the association is too far apart to override the pleasure of eating that food.

 

My housemate Cleo is seriously allergic to gluten. She knew she had a digestive problem, but could not figure out what the source was because wheat is in almost everything. Since you already know that grains are a problem, avoiding them is a good baseline for making other changes in your eating patterns.

 

10 hours ago, Harriet said:

I was sick for months before starting IF, and it was going well until I bought the licorice. I cannot be trusted with sweets in the house. Unless eating a lot of sweets is consistent with my goals. I took a sharp turn back to low-plant-high-meat keto and it is making fasting impossible because I am ravenous. This steak is TOO LEAN. Anyway, I know I want to keep experimenting, but can't decide what. Maybe not IF right now since really strong hunger precludes it. It should be challenging at most, and not in total opposition to my instincts, and shouldn't feel like a punishment.

 

Hmmm, I have a hypothesis that might be relevant here. I have been eating way too many sweets. They taste great, but are not very satisfying.  I have noticed that vegetables also taste quite sweet and are more satisfying

 

I wonder if our bodies are trying to tell us that we need sugars and vitamins from vegetables. The cravings are too vague to distinguish carrots from cookies. In earlier times, fruit and vegetables were more accessible than processed sweets. What do you think?

 

4 hours ago, Harriet said:

Yeah very heavy people actually have more lean mass. It's less as a percent, but more as a total. Obese westerners spend more calories just maintaining their weight. Ponzer suggested that in the small, active Hadza, the portion of TDEE lost to exercise was subtracted from inflammatory and immune processes. Which suggests that being sedentary may leave us TOO MUCH energy for these processes, and contribute to chronic disease. Just a hypothesis of his.

 

Fascinating. That makes a lot of sense.

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12 hours ago, Mistr said:

A typical serving size for a hamburger is 150g. Three servings of that size are not a lot, especially if you are not eating other things on the side.

 

... I ate 750g of steak yesterday by lunch time and was still hungry, I think because it was too lean (grass fed steak, looks to be 50-70% protein by calories). While researching optimal and optional ratios for low carb diets, I came across this quote from Steffanson:


"If you are transferred suddenly from a diet normal in fat to one consisting wholly of rabbit you eat bigger and bigger meals for the first few days until at the end of about a week you are eating in pounds three or four times as much as you were at the beginning of the week. By that time you are showing both signs of starvation and of protein poisoning. You eat numerous meals; you feel hungry at the end of each; you are in discomfort through distention of the stomach with much food and you begin to feel a vague restlessness. "

 

Apparently it only takes a week to become crazed and ravenous from eating only lean meat, and the process starts immediately. Interesting. Obviously I'm not rabbit-starved, but it might not have been ideal to dive from calorie restriction to high protein.

 

12 hours ago, Mistr said:

I think that is an excellent plan. Speaking from my own (recent) experience rather than statistics, I find that the aftereffects of eating dairy show up too much later for me to make the mental connection. If I feel bad within an hour or two, my brain marks that food as a Bad Thing. If I get achey 12-24 hours later, there is no connection. I might know intellectually what the prime culprit is for the pain, but the association is too far apart to override the pleasure of eating that food.

 

I'd like to test it some time, but it's just too important a component of my diet. I'm sensitive to eggs and coconut, sadly. And even ground beef is too lean by itself, but added fats like butter and oil aren't really sating. So I probably can't test it during a keto phase, but it might be easier to test in a higher carb phase--I can replace it with fruit.

 

12 hours ago, Mistr said:

My housemate Cleo is seriously allergic to gluten. She knew she had a digestive problem, but could not figure out what the source was because wheat is in almost everything. Since you already know that grains are a problem, avoiding them is a good baseline for making other changes in your eating patterns.

 

I think so, but it's hard to stick to because my GP and Mr Harriet are both skeptical of my Celiac diagnosis because my symptoms are not digestive. I've read that more recent research suggests that atypical celiac is actually, well, typical, but underdiagnosed because of the preconception that it must be digestive. And that grains have the potential to increase intestinal permeability in everyone, not just celiacs. And that may be causative in autoimmune disorders, which might include a lot more chronic diseases than we currently acknowledge. But then other people say that's all nonsense. It's really confusing the way that doctors react to new information, even if it's published in peer reviewed articles. Is a lot of research junk? If so, how do they know the new research is junk but the old research is not? Hmm. Also, I didn't get any better on a strictly GF diet with lots of "GF" replacement foods and "GF" oats: I only got better when I went keto, which made several changes at once, including the removal of all grains and pseudo grains, most legumes, and the addition of lots of meat and dairy fat.

 

12 hours ago, Mistr said:

Hmmm, I have a hypothesis that might be relevant here. I have been eating way too many sweets. They taste great, but are not very satisfying.  I have noticed that vegetables also taste quite sweet and are more satisfying

 

I wonder if our bodies are trying to tell us that we need sugars and vitamins from vegetables. The cravings are too vague to distinguish carrots from cookies. In earlier times, fruit and vegetables were more accessible than processed sweets. What do you think?

 

Our affinity for sweet tastes is probably evolutionary but it likely relates to honey, fruits and breastmilk, which are safe, non-toxic, and high in available calories. Modern vegetables have been bred to be sweeter, with less fibre and more starch, over thousands of years, but wild veg were likely not a favourite food of our ancestors, with the exception of starchy roots. In fact, we gave up our ability to derive value from fibre (as other primates, like gorillas, still do) when we sacrificed gut size for brain size in the course of our transformation into modern humans. We were able to do this because of fatty meats and cooked starches, as well as specialisation and sharing, which other primates don't do 😊 I think this means starchy veg and fruits are good, ancestrally appropriate foods for most people, but I also note that we may lack an off switch here because the environment did the limiting for us.

Also,  yes, I think we do have hunger for micronutrients. I've seen several researchers propose the idea of different hunger targets for micronutrients, protein, fat, salt, and carbohydrates. They propose that we simply won't stop eating until we hit all targets (but not all researchers believe in the same targets lol). This is not merely a hypothesis but proven in the case of protein, in a variety of animals from insects to humans. We have an unconscious protein goal! Which means protein dilution in the food supply necessarily leads to overeating calories in order to hit said target. Micronutrient targets might also explain why people eat more processed food than whole foods, even when macros and other aspects are matched.

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Let cheese and oxen and mead crowd out our secret desires for power and domination - Harriet the Viking

Just be bold, fluid and unapologetic, not small, hairy and indecisive - Harriet the Artist

You can absorb me! - Harriet the Contextless Guru

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