club The Great Gardening Thread of 2023

[KB Girl]

6 hours ago, Artemis Prime said:

So I had forgotten until you guys made me think about it here, but I had decided to test out the Three Sisters gardening method this year. A plan that is intended to turn into a jungle - one I might actually be able to follow!

I'm curious to see how that goes! Want to try that sometime too, but not this year. 

 

6 hours ago, Klutch said:

A retaining wall is basically just a regular garden wall, but with the express purpose of retaining the soil where it is, instead of allowing it to erode elsewhere. So, I guess, like a raised bed but my house is one of the sides and we just added a few layers of wood on the other 3 sides of the plot. Sort of like this:

Ah I see! That looks nice  and useful for when you want something other than grass or stone. 

The cat issue sounds super frustrating though.. not really anything you can do about it I suppose. 

[Everstorm]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:00 AM, Klutch said:

The cats think my yards are their litter boxes, mainly. Which would be fine if it was just a couple, but there are probably about 6 that I am aware of that roam the street, so this means they essentially tear up anything I put down. I've tried row covers (they somehow get inside and think it is their house) and once a layer of chicken wire (makes it difficult for me to work in the soil). 

There are a couple of other possible solutions, depending upon the size of the space you are trying to protect:

 

1. Water

Either water quite regularly for a while (so the ground stays wet and they don't want to dig in it) OR you can actually buy a sprinkler with a sensor that will spray when it detects movement.  My neighbor uses this to keep the squirrels out of his garden in the spring.

 

2.  Smell

You can purchase smelly animal deterrents, or you can apply strong smelling natural ingredients like cinnamon, peppermint oil, or even lemon peel.  Cats are very sensitive to smell, so strong scents can be overwhelming.   I have no idea how long such odors would last, but maybe the cats would learn to avoid your yard after a few attempts and make a habit of using a different spot.

 

 

[Sepherina]

Mother Nature teased us today in SW Pennsylvania with a high of 71 F. I soo wanted to play in the wet dirt than work all day. It felt more like late spring than early February. 

[MaeradCase]

I have the tiniest yard of grass and indeterminate shrubs that has never been touched by anything but a weed whacker. Maybe it's my New Horizons challenge, but part of me wonders if I could put in a little bit of effort at a time to remove the tangles of grass and grow some wildflowers. 🤔

[Everstorm]

2 hours ago, Sepherina said:

Mother Nature teased us today in SW Pennsylvania with a high of 71 F. I soo wanted to play in the wet dirt than work all day. It felt more like late spring than early February. 

It was the same here.  I actually did go play in the dirt, though.  I couldn't help myself.  I weeded the gardens in the front, then planted some shrubs in the back.  I found three evergreen shrubs on clearance!  I am trying to make this garden on the cheap, so super stoked about finding these.  I also bought seeds to start for later and made plans to move some other plants from various places into this garden to help fill it out.  Yay false spring gardening!

[Klutch]

15 hours ago, Everstorm said:

There are a couple of other possible solutions, depending upon the size of the space you are trying to protect:

 

1. Water

Either water quite regularly for a while (so the ground stays wet and they don't want to dig in it) OR you can actually buy a sprinkler with a sensor that will spray when it detects movement.  My neighbor uses this to keep the squirrels out of his garden in the spring.

 

 

I did not know cats didn't like mud! I will give this a go, thank you!

 

I've tried peppermint smells before but I guess it wasn't strong enough. I will do more research there as well. 

[Sepherina]

9 hours ago, Everstorm said:

It was the same here.  I actually did go play in the dirt, though.  I couldn't help myself.  I weeded the gardens in the front, then planted some shrubs in the back.  I found three evergreen shrubs on clearance!  I am trying to make this garden on the cheap, so super stoked about finding these.  I also bought seeds to start for later and made plans to move some other plants from various places into this garden to help fill it out.  Yay false spring gardening!

So jelly!  Soon….Soon I will get to play in the dirt.  Right now I can just dream about what plants to put in (I probably should decide on that soon-ish)….

[Artemis Prime]

12 hours ago, Sepherina said:

Mother Nature teased us today in SW Pennsylvania with a high of 71 F. I soo wanted to play in the wet dirt than work all day. It felt more like late spring than early February. 

Hey western PA buddy! We didn't hit 70 yesterday, but got pretty darn close. I didn't get into the dirt either, but I did get some quality outdoor time in.

 

Also talked to a friend who said she was told to leave all her old garden stuff in until February to give birds some stuff to eat over the winter and allow seeds to drop into the soil and all. Pretty sure she was talking about flowers more than vegetables, but I'm rolling with it. I didn't not get around to my cleanup, it was part of a gardening strategy!

[KB Girl]

8 hours ago, Artemis Prime said:

 

Also talked to a friend who said she was told to leave all her old garden stuff in until February to give birds some stuff to eat over the winter and allow seeds to drop into the soil and all. Pretty sure she was talking about flowers more than vegetables, but I'm rolling with it. I didn't not get around to my cleanup, it was part of a gardening strategy!

Haha  

It’s not just birds, there are lots of insects hiding/overwintering in there and possibly even a hedgehog. 

[Sepherina]

23 hours ago, Artemis Prime said:

Hey western PA buddy! We didn't hit 70 yesterday, but got pretty darn close. I didn't get into the dirt either, but I did get some quality outdoor time in.

Hey PA friend. 🙂  Whereabouts in western PA?  I am in Pittsburgh.

 

Quote

Also talked to a friend who said she was told to leave all her old garden stuff in until February to give birds some stuff to eat over the winter and allow seeds to drop into the soil and all. Pretty sure she was talking about flowers more than vegetables, but I'm rolling with it. I didn't not get around to my cleanup, it was part of a gardening strategy!

That makes sense.  I left last season’s vegetables in too. Mostly cause I didn’t feel like dealing with it.  Maybe we will both  get lucky with some free plants ?!? 

[Darciana]

So I've located my trusty "Grow and Make Your Own Hot Sauce" kit that's never been opened. I've talked to my veggie-loving stepdaughter about garden plans and she's on board.

Now I have to figure out how in the world I'm going to shade my plants from this relentless Texas sun and once I manage that, I can decide how I'm going to organize plants within it. It's an odd flowy, rounded triangle area. I'd love to have things like asparagus that need to keep their space year round. The other things, like tomatoes or spicy peppers I'm really thinking I'll keep potted. 

 

I know its more of a fall crop, but anybody have any thoughts on root veg? Carrots, (sweet) potatoes (preferably both), onion? Any thoughts on spinach? Everyone here LOVES spinach so I'll need a lot of that. 

 

Thank you for starting this now because I only just realized how much thought still needs to go into this garden before I get started. Not like my strictly potted garden where I just had to ensure I had enough of them and started without a single plan in place!

[MaeradCase]

1 hour ago, Darciana said:

I know its more of a fall crop, but anybody have any thoughts on root veg? Carrots, (sweet) potatoes (preferably both), onion? Any thoughts on spinach? Everyone here LOVES spinach so I'll need a lot of that. 

I have thoughts of those, but no existing experience gardening. Funny enough I was just reading about them in regard to a writer question of what crops could be grown in a mountain climate. 😂

 

1 hour ago, Darciana said:

Thank you for starting this now because I only just realized how much thought still needs to go into this garden before I get started. Not like my strictly potted garden where I just had to ensure I had enough of them and started without a single plan in place!

I still have no idea when to start taking out everything growing wild in my tiny yard and when to put out wildflower seeds. Hopefully I don't need to know to get it right? 😅

[sarakingdom]

1 hour ago, Darciana said:

So I've located my trusty "Grow and Make Your Own Hot Sauce" kit that's never been opened.

 

The seeds may have a lower germination rate if it's old. Some vegetable seeds store better than others. Just a heads up.

 

1 hour ago, Darciana said:

I know its more of a fall crop, but anybody have any thoughts on root veg? Carrots, (sweet) potatoes (preferably both), onion? Any thoughts on spinach? Everyone here LOVES spinach so I'll need a lot of that. 

 

Are you in north or south Texas? That's gonna make a huge difference to the answers.

 

I'm gonna assume northish here; that's the easier set of answers. All those are doable in north Texas, with some planning for the brutality of your summers on plants.

 

Spinach will grow in early spring, and fall/winter. (In winter it won't grow much, because cold slows growth down to a crawl, but existing spinach should stay reasonably harvestable. Spinach is usually pretty impervious to cold.) That means getting it in the ground as early in spring as you can for a short season before summer, and figuring out when the summer heat drops enough to start it in the fall. The seasons will be short, spinach truly hates heat and is sort of a finicky plant to get going. It's a little tricky to germinate, the plants are small, and it won't last long. It's totally doable, but spinach isn't the easiest, even in climates it really likes.

 

If you can convince your family to like chard, which is related to spinach but subtly beetier in flavor, then you're in a bit more luck. Chard is not finicky. It is not small. It is not short-lived. It grows like a champion, and many varieties will even stick it out through the summer, which is very rare for green leafy veg. They won't be super productive, cuz they're not totally happy with the heat, but theyll hang in there. They'll also, like spinach, laugh off winter, and stay harvestable, so you might get a full year or slightly more from them before they die. They're also a plant you could start soon.

 

Root veg is a fall harvest, but needs a long time in the ground, so it usually grows all summer, and sometimes part of the spring. For onions, it might be nearing too late to start from seed, so you're probably going to want to buy sets from the garden center, which just means tiny baby onions. (This is normal, because starting onions from seed is slooooooow, and many people are not into that. Later on, people develop opinions about which they prefer doing, but you have the luxury of not having Gardener Opinions and can just go the easy route.) Onions tend to go in during the spring, but I don't think it's early early the-crack-of-spring if you go with sets, just sort of casually eventually springish. Basically when they hit the garden centers is probably about when it's right for your area.

 

Carrots are one where you could try to get a spring crop from; with the right variety, they might last in the ground through the summer till you get the main fall batch in. I think they need a certain soil temperature to germinate, so they're a little squeezed in the spring. It'll depend where you are and how long your spring is.

 

Potatoes of both sorts should be fine. Sweet potatoes in particular should love the summer heat, they're pretty tropical. I think they're both sort of later springish starts. They need some growing time, especially the sweet ones, I believe. The sweet ones in should thrive in an area with a long, hot summer.

 

My basic suggestion for difficult climates is to bypass the big box store seeds, which are sort of a generic average or the same thing the professional growers use in their optimal climates, and go to the heirloom seed sources to find varieties that have a history either in your region, or in hot regions like yours. For north Texas, I'd look for traditional Italian varieties of most things, stuff that likes hot, dry, scrubby Mediterranean soil, and there are some Texas heirlooms of some things. They're likely to behave best with the heat, compared to varieties that thrive in Michigan or Germany or whatever.

 

So for north Texas, you can sorta play at being an adaptable Average Climate with some concessions to a difficult, hot summer for plants. For south Texas, it's a bit harder.

[sarakingdom]

44 minutes ago, MaeradCase said:

I still have no idea when to start taking out everything growing wild in my tiny yard and when to put out wildflower seeds. Hopefully I don't need to know to get it right? 😅

 

Very soon, probably. Pop those seeds in the fridge two or three weeks before you plant, especially if it starts getting past March. Some wildflowers like to go through a cold period of "winter" before they germinate. (If you bought a blend, maybe they were smart about that, or maybe they were banking on a late autumn sowing for the next spring. Easier just to put them in the fridge to be sure. Bag them in plastic so they don't absorb moisture in there.)

 

Wildflowers vary a lot, but on average they like to be the first thing popping up in the spring. If I had a yard and a bunch of wildflower seeds without instructions, I'd be aiming at very early spring if I wanted them to grow this year.

[MaeradCase]

1 hour ago, sarakingdom said:

 

Very soon, probably. Pop those seeds in the fridge two or three weeks before you plant, especially if it starts getting past March. Some wildflowers like to go through a cold period of "winter" before they germinate. (If you bought a blend, maybe they were smart about that, or maybe they were banking on a late autumn sowing for the next spring. Easier just to put them in the fridge to be sure. Bag them in plastic so they don't absorb moisture in there.)

 

Wildflowers vary a lot, but on average they like to be the first thing popping up in the spring. If I had a yard and a bunch of wildflower seeds without instructions, I'd be aiming at very early spring if I wanted them to grow this year.

 

I found some seeds (I hadn't even bought them yet 😅) from a vendor that mixes local flowers. Looking forward to that even if it means two months of pulling out the grass. I should get myself good gloves. 😃

 

Also my lawn is so tiny that 4/5 of the bag can be shared with my mom. ❤

[sarakingdom]

11 minutes ago, MaeradCase said:

Looking forward to that even if it means two months of pulling out the grass. I should get myself good gloves. 😃

 

If you're talking a not too huge area, let me introduce you to no-dig gardening, where you won't need to dig out any grass at all. It is good nutritious material for the plants, it just needs to be covered to decompose. You can get more details on setting up a no dig bed on YouTube, but you basically need enough cardboard boxes to cover the area, and enough dirt to put on top of that. (That can often be supplemented heavily from a town composting center, if your town does that.) It would work for a huge area, too, but it's harder to get the dirt.

[MaeradCase]

4 minutes ago, sarakingdom said:

 

If you're talking a not too huge area, let me introduce you to no-dig gardening, where you won't need to dig out any grass at all. It is good nutritious material for the plants, it just needs to be covered to decompose. You can get more details on setting up a no dig bed on YouTube, but you basically need enough cardboard boxes to cover the area, and enough dirt to put on top of that. (That can often be supplemented heavily from a town composting center, if your town does that.) It would work for a huge area, too, but it's harder to get the dirt.

Like 50 square feet... I am intrigued and may see about acquiring the dirt for this method.

[sarakingdom]

4 minutes ago, MaeradCase said:

Like 50 square feet... I am intrigued and may see about acquiring the dirt for this method.

 

50 square feet is less than two standard garden beds, so not too bad. Go for a YouTube tutorial like Charles Dowding or Epic Gardening, or the one they did together. It's a lot of dirt if you're getting it in small amounts, but not bad if you can find a source. If your town dump has a free compost program, you can cut it with some less intensely nutritious stuff that might be cheaper, like, I dunno, sand or wood chips. (UK tutorials say compost, and mean potting soil by that.)

[spezzy]

Yayyy excited for this.

 

Bought an acre of land last summer that needs a lot of work. It’s a beautiful river front property in the woods/wetlands, which is amazing but as a unique set of challenges.

 

I bought the house from my Mom, so we have a lot of information where we wouldn’t otherwise, and know where she’s tried gardens and what she’s grown before.
 

Nothing is really usable that she had done in the past the way things are now due to some floods, So we are kind of like starting from scratch, only with a little extra knowledge.

 

This years goal is twofold:

1) that by the end of 2023, we will be set up to produce 25+% of our own food in 2024.  A lot of this will be with the rabbits and chickens, but a lot will be the garden, too

2) reinforce some of the land damaged from the floods while protecting the gardens from future floods. 

. 

for reference, floods:
https://youtube.com/shorts/hXQp4lAKEAc?feature=share

 

I’m in northern New England so we still have a lot of snow, and the ground is quite frozen, and still mapping out exactly what we are going to plant and where.

 

I was able to scan an old map of the property and piece it together (it was huge) and make myself a little overview planning map. Since we are on wetlands, there are some extra restrictions on what we can and can’t do, so I have a layer on the map on my computer I can show/hide that has the markers for distance from the wetlands, the well, and the right tank (our sewer system), so that’s been super super helpful.

 

Anyway, we spent some time going around the property today and I brought my iPad to map things out:

 

where orange is fence and green are potential garden beds or garden areas. 
 

we plan on doing a Hügelkultur style garden around the green scribbles near the top near the wetlands - to help build up that area and make it usable as well. It was all grass and solid 2 years ago.  We will put in some bushes as well and things to really build up the land.  Researching a lot of native wetland plants for this, if we can eat them (cranberry/blueberry) for example, great, if not, fine, too. The goal there is not losing the land completely. There’s a wild rice that needs a moving river that I believe is native here, so that’d be awesome.

 

I just found out cattails are edible but probably not going to go that route 😂(we have plenty of those!)

 

Then the areas where I want to put beds are the areas that get the most sun, of course. I don’t really want a ton of grass to mow (that’s what the goats are for) so am happy with multiple garden areas. The front yard has our tight tank so we can’t do anything else there, will probably all be pumpkins and watermelons and other ones that need a ton of space.

 

Will put things that do well in super wet environments in the bottommost box, and am going to look into seeing if any thrive in that environment. The others I’ll be building far enough up the hill that even a big flood wouldn’t disturb them too much.

 

We are gonna buy plants instead of doing our own starters this year because no one has time for everything we have done this last year so I am taking shortcuts where I can  (I’m getting the day old chickens though 🙃!!!!)

 

Anyway, that’s it for now. The next week or two are focused on figuring out what materials we even have (buying from mom is a crazy experience, let me tell you) and making a plan!
 

 

 

 

[sarakingdom]

2 hours ago, spezzy said:

There’s a wild rice that needs a moving river that I believe is native here, so that’d be awesome.

 

2 hours ago, spezzy said:

Will put things that do well in super wet environments in the bottommost box, and am going to look into seeing if any thrive in that environment.

 

You have no idea how much I envy all that amazing watercress potential.

[Sepherina]

Quote

We are gonna buy plants instead of doing our own starters this year because no one has time for everything we have done this last year so I am taking shortcuts where I can  (I’m getting the day old chickens though 🙃!!!!)

 I buy plants usually too because this time of year is just too busy with other stuff.

 

 

I also am curious about the “House of Biceps.

[Darciana]

21 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

 

The seeds may have a lower germination rate if it's old. Some vegetable seeds store better than others. Just a heads up.

 

 

Thank you thank you thank you! It's a lot of information, but I really appreciate all that. I plan on getting starters this year because I know I'm not going to have the time or location for seed starting anything. One day I want to get a greenhouse. I'll have to try chard, I've heard of it being used in various salads before, but honestly been a little nervous to try it. Maybe that'll be a goal. Been trying to give myself a seasonal goal of trying a new fruit/vegetable every season, based on what is most recently in harvest. I have eggplant on my list right now, too. In fall, I tried acorn squash. I always loved butternut so it was easy for me to mentally prepare for new flavors haha!

 

For the grow your own kit, I've had it a year, so not terribly long, but who knows how long it's been stored prior to me getting it! Eek. I really want to pop a few seeds in to see if they will germinate, but primarily using it as a guide to which plants they're referencing. I've had luck in Texas with a couple spicy peppers (and bell peppers, honestly) but I'm always down to try a new variety! 

[KB Girl]

18 hours ago, spezzy said:

Will put things that do well in super wet environments in the bottommost box, and am going to look into seeing if any thrive in that environment. The others I’ll be building far enough up the hill that even a big flood wouldn’t disturb them too much.

Maybe tomatoes? They need a lot of water but I guess there can be too much water. 

 

18 hours ago, spezzy said:

we plan on doing a Hügelkultur style garden around the green scribbles near the top near the wetlands - to help build up that area and make it usable as well. It was all grass and solid 2 years ago.  We will put in some bushes as well and things to really build up the land.  Researching a lot of native wetland plants for this, if we can eat them (cranberry/blueberry) for example, great, if not, fine, too. The goal there is not losing the land completely. There’s a wild rice that needs a moving river that I believe is native here, so that’d be awesome.

 

That is awesome, I'm very interested to see how it will work out

[KB Girl]

We sorted out all of our seeds and made a detailed plan for our community garden plot

Hopefully tomorrow or the day after we can start some things on our window sill and under glass outside. 

 

I've been reading a very interesting gardening book by a dutch author- I checked but it wasn't translated to English (yet), but it's on combining crops in a permaculture garden. He calls it 'apparent chaos' and it's meant to confuse pests. I imagine it may look quite pretty too. 

 

From his book;

 

My plan; 

[spezzy]

18 hours ago, sarakingdom said:

 

 

You have no idea how much I envy all that amazing watercress potential.

 

This is a really, really 

 

10 hours ago, Sepherina said:

 I buy plants usually too because this time of year is just too busy with other stuff.

 

Yeah, it'd be nice to fit in starting seeds, but definitely not this year ha.

 

10 hours ago, Sepherina said:

I also am curious about the “House of Biceps.

 

House of Biceps is the gym

 

1 hour ago, KB Girl said:

Maybe tomatoes? They need a lot of water but I guess there can be too much water. 

 

That is awesome, I'm very interested to see how it will work out

 

Yeah, this is a bit too much water even for tomatoes. I was thinking tomatoes up on the side of the house where it gets really great south facing sun + I can build some trellises that use the house as support, or up in the front.  

 

I don't think there's an area on the property that'd actually be considered "dry", really. I remember last year when we got here @Rurik Harrgath asked me if I moved him to the rainforest 😂