• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Wolverine

L-Seat/Sit and Planche Progressions

Recommended Posts

I'm finally pursuing my goal of both an L-Seat/Sit and a Planche, and have a quick question on where to start.

For the L-Seat/Sit, I plan on starting with a Tuck Seat ala: http://gymnasticswod.com/content/tuck-seat and working up to a 60 second hold and then moving on to the next progression.

For the planche, I plan on starting with a Frog Stand ala: http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/building-an-olympic-body-through-bodyweight-conditioning/ and working up to a 60 second hold and then moving on to the next progression.

For those of you who are versed in such things... am I starting in the right place?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd start with the L-sit first and wait until I have a 3x30s L-sit before seriously starting planche work. I think frog stands are okay, though.

I don't see much use in building up to 60s with the L-sit (I'd rather stop at 30s), but for planche it's a good idea.

Don't forget to do pulling as well. Inverted rows and pullups are good. Once you get good at l-sits, you can also start working your way towards manna, which is a very weird exercise that classifies as pulling. Go figure. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The frog stand is a necessary precursor to the planche progression but it is NOT part of the planche progression. The planche progression doesn't actually begin until you can do a tuck planche, which is WAY more advanced than a frog stand.

The basic precursors to a tuck planche are:

60 sec frog stand

30 sec floor L-sit

30 sec planche lean

If you can do all of those, chances are you have the physical ability to hold a tuck planche, it is just a matter of technique to put it all together. A straight arm frog stand is used by some to help learn the technique.

For L-sits there really are 2 components, ab strength and shoulder strength. You need to work both.

Your abs should be able to take a ton of punishment. If you are a BW person your core in general should always be your primary focus, everything flows from it. Your ability to do higher level exercises is more often than not limited by core strength. You need to build up to high maximum strength and high work capacity. For your abs you should be doing way more than just a basic L-sit progression. Include planks and some other dynamic exercises (bicycle crunches are good for beginners). You don't always have to go to failure, the abs respond strongly to volume, the best way to get that volume is to stay away from failure.

The shoulder strength is in the form of pushing down and getting your head up. A little weird to describe, get your head out of the turtle shell is a phrase Tony H. in p90X uses to describe the motion. Support holds, dead hangs, and upward dog/cobra (yoga) all work this aspect of strength, it's like a reverse shrug. You have to be very strong at this motion to hold a flat palm floor L-sit. Working PB L-sits without first mastering this motion is a recipe for injury (speaking from experience, I strained my pec minor bad this way).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the responses, guys!

I'm adding the gymnastic holds to a full body routine. One day is pull-ups, push-ups, squats, and planks and the other days is pull-ups, dips, squats, and ab wheel. Different set/rep schemes each day for those exercises that repeat (pull-ups and squats). I'm trying to throw in some handstand practice when I have a minute too.

I'm brand new to bodyweight exercises... had to recently give up my gym membership. Any advice as to full body routines + holds would be awesome!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm brand new to bodyweight exercises... had to recently give up my gym membership. Any advice as to full body routines + holds would be awesome!

Two holds you should begin working:

Hollow hold - lay on the ground, hands at your sides. Lift your legs and shoulders off the ground, but only slightly off the ground. It is basically practicing keeping straight in the hollow position. It is a good ab workout. When you can hold it 60s and can do double digit pullups you are ready to begin working on front levers, starting with the tuck front lever. The hollow position is used a lot, including with handstands.

Arch hold - also called a superman hold. Lie on the ground pace down. Lift your legs, arms, and shoulders off the ground, like you are flying like superman. Your body should be supported only by your belly. It is a good lower back workout. When you can hold it 60s and can hold a german hang 30s (the end of a skin the cat) you are ready to begin working on back levers, starting with the tuck back lever.

Getting to levers is key for BW people. Levers range from moderate to really frickin hard in a fairly linear progression. And they are probably the best full body compound exercises that exist. You get strong fast by doing levers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should I forgo concentrating on the L-Sit for now in place of the hollow/arch or do the holds on one day and the L-sit on another? And am I aiming to hold the hollow/superman for a length of time or do a certain number of reps?

Two holds you should begin working:

Hollow hold - lay on the ground, hands at your sides. Lift your legs and shoulders off the ground, but only slightly off the ground. It is basically practicing keeping straight in the hollow position. It is a good ab workout. When you can hold it 60s and can do double digit pullups you are ready to begin working on front levers, starting with the tuck front lever. The hollow position is used a lot, including with handstands.

Arch hold - also called a superman hold. Lie on the ground pace down. Lift your legs, arms, and shoulders off the ground, like you are flying like superman. Your body should be supported only by your belly. It is a good lower back workout. When you can hold it 60s and can hold a german hang 30s (the end of a skin the cat) you are ready to begin working on back levers, starting with the tuck back lever.

Getting to levers is key for BW people. Levers range from moderate to really frickin hard in a fairly linear progression. And they are probably the best full body compound exercises that exist. You get strong fast by doing levers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Should I forgo concentrating on the L-Sit for now in place of the hollow/arch or do the holds on one day and the L-sit on another? And am I aiming to hold the hollow/superman for a length of time or do a certain number of reps?

The holds work good as part of a warmup. Pick a target time and don't go to failure. I started with 15sec, moved to 20 sec, and then 30 sec, over the course of a few months. You will progress that way, the idea is that they should feel kinda easy. Going to failure I can hold each >>> 60 sec, but I've never trained them that long, only when testing to see where I'm at.

Definitely keep going on the L-sit work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hold for 15 sec. once per workout, or do for sets... like 3 x 15 sec. and then increase time when comfortable?

Sorry to beat this to death, and thanks for the advice!

The holds work good as part of a warmup. Pick a target time and don't go to failure. I started with 15sec, moved to 20 sec, and then 30 sec, over the course of a few months. You will progress that way, the idea is that they should feel kinda easy. Going to failure I can hold each >>> 60 sec, but I've never trained them that long, only when testing to see where I'm at.

Definitely keep going on the L-sit work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hold for 15 sec. once per workout, or do for sets... like 3 x 15 sec. and then increase time when comfortable?

Sorry to beat this to death, and thanks for the advice!

Either or. I just hold it once per workout in my warmup. Others suggest it more. I don't want to overly tire myself before my workout. I might add more sets over time, but at this point I don't see a need.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
L-sit and Handstand are THE fundamentals. If you don't have a good L-sit or handstand, I guarantee you you will have trouble with higher progressions.

I'd follow Waldo's advice recommending the levers.

I'm somewhat torn on the L-sit. Agree though with the handstand. It is hard to develop a good handstand without doing handstands. Dare I say impossible even.

As long as you remain focused on PB support and your abs, actually doing L-sits and focusing on them is unnecessary. Get good at those two components and you can drop and do a fine floor L-sit without hardly any practice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By "PB support" do you mean parallel bars?

I'm somewhat torn on the L-sit. Agree though with the handstand. It is hard to develop a good handstand without doing handstands. Dare I say impossible even.

As long as you remain focused on PB support and your abs, actually doing L-sits and focusing on them is unnecessary. Get good at those two components and you can drop and do a fine floor L-sit without hardly any practice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My only problem with learning the levers is a lack of an appropriate apparatus. Not sure it would be possible to bust one out on a cheap doorway pull-up bar...

L-sit and Handstand are THE fundamentals. If you don't have a good L-sit or handstand, I guarantee you you will have trouble with higher progressions.

I'd follow Waldo's advice recommending the levers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
By "PB support" do you mean parallel bars?

Yes.

But really any similar motion but rings. Rings are a little different animal. Using chairs, hands on the back or flat palm would qualify as PB support. It is the exact same motion you use when doing a floor L-sit. The problem with the floor is that it is a very tough place to practice this basic motion. It is much easier to master it on an elevated apparatus first before moving to the floor, even something as small as pushup bars.

My only problem with learning the levers is a lack of an appropriate apparatus. Not sure it would be possible to bust one out on a cheap doorway pull-up bar...

That's all I've got and its worked fine. Granted I have wore out the padding a bit from the rotation (mostly from my wedding ring). I'd like to get some rings, but for now my doorway pullup bar will have to do.

Even though you are applying more tension in your muscles via lever arms an whatnot, the force you are actually applying to the bar remains the same, your bodyweight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's all I've got and its worked fine. Granted I have wore out the padding a bit from the rotation (mostly from my wedding ring). I'd like to get some rings, but for now my doorway pullup bar will have to do.

Even though you are applying more tension in your muscles via lever arms an whatnot, the force you are actually applying to the bar remains the same, your bodyweight.

Sweet! Good to know! Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this