LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[The Tin Man]

Love

posted this week by the vlog brothers on human sexuality.

I...just...wow. Handling such a complex issue in such a concise, clear, and (to me) respectful manner just blew my mind a little bit.

I feel weird saying a four minute Youtube video gives me hope for humanity.

And I love things like this and even just this thread because as a healthy, white, middle class, heterosexual cis male I just might have a couple privileges I'm blind to despite my best efforts. [/understatement]

[Tkal]

Just checking in. FtM here, in transition now. And for us training IS a big issue, especially in the period where your body is half-way. Lot of awkwardness in the locker room. And forget about taking a shower in the gym after training, too many scars to show off...

But for the moment I am still waiting for the OK of my shrink to start hormones, and I know one of the conditions is be back in shape and with a healthy life. So plenty of motivation to be here :-) Any other t-guys around?

I am also have a beautiful wife (no label applicable), thanks to Dutch law. It is really weird to be married in one country, then not in the next, then having a civil partnership, then nothing and so on when traveling... But we are fabulous and tha tis the only thing that matters :-)

Anyway, loving this thread

[Unda]

I was wondering if I could get some advice from you good folks.

I came out to my mum when I was 17, telling her that I was bi. She just responded with a flat face and a 'no you're not', this hadn't been what I'd been expecting at all at the time so I was like 'uh, yeah, pretty sure I am actually' she repeated that I wasn't then just left the room. It took up so much guts to talk to her the first time that I just left it and never said anything since. That same year I got together with my husband who I married this year.

Obviously it's not like I'm going to be dating women now seeing as I'm married, to a man no less. But it irks me that she still either doesn't know, refuses to know, or thinks that she was right about me not being bi back then. It seems a little pointless to come out to her now again as it's kind of irrelevant, but also it's not irrelevant godamnit! On the one hand I wouldn't talk to her about anything else I prefer sex wise so part of me thinks "why should the fact that I like ladies be different?" but then on the other hand it irks me that I know she doesn't know and I self-censor myself around her.

Is there any point to trying to come out to her again now or should I just think screw this and leave it well alone?

[realbrickwall]

Well, you can stop the self-censoring, if that bothers you, but if you don't want to actively engage her about it, then don't. It might be a pain in the ass.

Or, hey, maybe she's changed over the years. People do that.

[maggerson]

I dated a lady awhile ago whose mom did the SAME thing. That's not really relevant to much of anything, it just reminded me of that. I guess that means you're not alone in this sort of thing, which is good and bad at the same time.

Anyway, I think if you and your mom are on good terms and you don't see yourself having to introduce a female companion at any point in the near future... Leave it be? It's not like you can really do much to actually make her accept what you're telling her - that part has to come from her and nobody else. I would save yourself the trouble of going through that again, while still making as many comments about attractive women as possible.

[Tkal]

I dated a lady awhile ago whose mom did the SAME thing. That's not really relevant to much of anything, it just reminded me of that. I guess that means you're not alone in this sort of thing, which is good and bad at the same time.

Count me there. My mom still refuses to acknowledge my relationship with my wife, who she keeps calling my "friend" (yes, she pronounces the word with the quote).

Back to the original question

Is there any point to trying to come out to her again now or should I just think screw this and leave it well alone?

I think what is more important is how much the fact that you are bi defines who you are as a person. In my case my mum denying my wife is painful, but not as much as refusing to even consider the fact that I am a guy, and not her dream daughter. But even before starting the transition, refusing to acknowledge all my connections with the Rainbow community meant cutting off a big part of who I was.

My point is: there is a point in making things clear only if your relationship with your mother can grow from there. Making a point just for the sake of it is a waste of time and energy imho

[Unda]

I think you're all right. It's more the self-censoring that bugs me. Being bi isn't a MASSIVE part of who I am but having to not say things bugs me. Perhaps I'll just stop doing that and if a discussion comes from it then so be it, I won't bring it up though.

And if she objects... well... like you all said, it's not as if I'm going to be bringing any ladies home romantically now is it?

What frustrates me is that she was always super supportive of my gay male cousin and his husband. It just always felt to me like she was okay with non straight people just as long as it wasn't her kid. And seeing as I am her only child... I don't know. It's not like she's getting grand kids out of me anyway, hubby has a pretty rare disease that we are NOT passing onto offspring and frankly neither of us like kids enough to do anything like adopting etc. I told her that before and... actually she did the same kind of thing as this. She said that that idea made her sad and she was sure I'd change my mind eventually.

Argh. I guess my mum just does this with major stuff that she doesn't like, she just pretends that it's not happening. She and my dad split up for six months when I was at Uni and she just decided not to tell me and even went so far as to always actively lie about my dad being out and getting him to call me from work and pretend like everything was fine. She said that she'd thought it might mess up my exams if I knew.

So yeah, seeing a pattern here. Denial, not just a river in Egypt.

[CaraStarbuck]

So I have spent no time on the forums here outside of my guild's challenge board, and finally I ventured out; looking to discuss NaNoWriMo. Then I saw this thread existed and it made my freaking day. I just want to give you all you gays/gayelles/queermos/bis/pans/etc giant nerdy, unicorn hugs. I honestly didn't dare hope that NF would be this awesome, and well...it is. So many squishy feelings right now. I really wasn't sure there would be a safe space like this and I'm just super stoked all around at what that says about how much this place rules. <3

For the record, I'm a lady-lovin' lady, recently out, chosen identifier is "queer," as "gay/lesbian" is too restrictive and sometimes I like dudes. Peace and puppies to all!

[guest439437484421]

Heh, interesting to see this thread after the conversation my two gay roommates (they're a couple) were having last night. Apparently they have some unique... challenges... because of their orientation (both are male).

[maggerson]

Argh. I guess my mum just does this with major stuff that she doesn't like, she just pretends that it's not happening. She and my dad split up for six months when I was at Uni and she just decided not to tell me and even went so far as to always actively lie about my dad being out and getting him to call me from work and pretend like everything was fine. She said that she'd thought it might mess up my exams if I knew.

Man, my mom conveniently forgets that I am not living in her house, and then assumes I know things like when my grandmother falls or bad things have happened. High five for mommy issues?

As cliche as this is going to sound, I'm getting the sense that it's not only her self-preserving denial factoring into this sort of thing, but it's her own odd way of looking out for you. I could be off-base there, but it doesn't sound like your mom is a terrible person, so that leaves the whole "she's doing the best she knows how" thing there.

Side note - welcome to you, new people! Dear CaraStarbuck, your username is TOTALLY BOSS.

[Anduril]

Love this thread.

I'm of the age where you don't talk about stuff like this in public so bear with me ... I feel sort of nervous about posting here.

I have multiple personality disorder with both male and female alts, some are straight and some are gay ... so I don't know what you want to call me. On the Kinsey scale I'd be a 4, but I like the term pansexual the most as I don't really care that much about gender when it comes to sexual attraction. I don't actually think about it very often, but I don't associate the word queer in a positive light although I don't mind if someone else does.

I've been married 25 years to my mostly-straight husband and have three grown kids born the usual way. We're nominally poly, although we're both too shy and nerdy to find other partners (we have tried).

FWIW, I'm not "out" about any of this but I don't feel any great need to be either, although it would be nice to have someone other than my husband accept me for who I am.

[maggerson]

I've been married 25 years to my mostly-straight husband and have three grown kids born the usual way.

FWIW, I'm not "out" about any of this but I don't feel any great need to be either, although it would be nice to have someone other than my husband accept me for who I am.

First of all, congrats on your marriage - that's a long time to be committed to anyone, so well done! Second, you are absolutely totally welcome and I hope the rest of the folks on this thread will accept you as well. I don't know how well I can answer questions or give advice, but there's probably someone who knows someone that could help if you ever need anything.

Welcome!

[nightlight]

Love this thread.

I'm of the age where you don't talk about stuff like this in public so bear with me ... I feel sort of nervous about posting here.

I have multiple personality disorder with both male and female alts, some are straight and some are gay ... so I don't know what you want to call me. On the Kinsey scale I'd be a 4, but I like the term pansexual the most as I don't really care that much about gender when it comes to sexual attraction. I don't actually think about it very often, but I don't associate the word queer in a positive light although I don't mind if someone else does.

I've been married 25 years to my mostly-straight husband and have three grown kids born the usual way. We're nominally poly, although we're both too shy and nerdy to find other partners (we have tried).

FWIW, I'm not "out" about any of this but I don't feel any great need to be either, although it would be nice to have someone other than my husband accept me for who I am.

you are accepted here, rebel.

[Guest shaka-spirit]

Hey I'm pansexual, and I've been out since high school, although it took a while to find a term that fit. Lucky for me, my country is pretty decent on not being violently homophobic, so I've never had to worry about things like that.

It's great to see so much of the queer community working to get fit together! I know a lot of the people around me think it's a silly heterosexual thing to do, even though I try to discourage them from that kind of thinking (I guess thats where the biphobia comes in, because I get told that I try and stay fit because I like men as well as women).

So yeah Im happy to be a part of everything, I guess

[Anduril]

you are accepted here, rebel.

That means a lot to me.

First of all, congrats on your marriage - that's a long time to be committed to anyone, so well done!

Thanks.

[Wolverine]

So, a question for you self-identified pansexuals - how do you define "pansexual"?

[Guest shaka-spirit]

So, a question for you self-identified pansexuals - how do you define "pansexual"?

I define it as attraction beyond gender. I find the term "bisexual" too constricting, because there is more than just two genders out there, and I'm attracted to people, not what they happen to have in their pants.

I've found that some people like to say "omnisexual" as well

[Tkal]

Love this thread.

I'm of the age where you don't talk about stuff like this in public so bear with me ... I feel sort of nervous about posting here.

Anduril, welcome! one more color for our rainbow

But, at this point your post, together with recent ones from Unda and shaka-spirit make me wonders: what is the reason that pushes us to come out or keeps us in the closet?

I live now in a place where "being different" is the norm, but I am fully aware I am really lucky, since before coming here I have been kicked out from my parents and I underwent my share of violence. But even when the closet would have been a safer (and easier) place I simple couldn't stay there while keeping my sanity. And I am a pretty "average" guy, but for the fact I do not have a male body

Ok, I'm babbling, time for bed

[maggerson]

And I am a pretty "average" guy, but for the fact I do not have a male body

Possibly the best thing ever said?

I think the biggest push to come out is honesty. For me, it was a chance to not have to play the pronoun game about dates, or to not have to flat-out lie about what club I wanted to go to. The little things, you know, that come into play in conversation, about boyfriends and girlfriends, kind of got to be too much to keep being untruthful about, so I came out.

And then I had to do it all over again because I moved to a different state for college. FUN!

[Wolverine]

I define it as attraction beyond gender. I find the term "bisexual" too constricting, because there is more than just two genders out there, and I'm attracted to people, not what they happen to have in their pants.

I've found that some people like to say "omnisexual" as well

Makes perfect sense. Thank you!

[Flex Luthor]

^ I may need more clarification on this point. I get the fact that when it comes to personality there really is no "gender" just different mixtures of what some would call masculine and feminine characteristics. However when it comes down to biology there are only 2 genders. I take pansexual to mean attracted to everything regardless of species, not just gender. Homo sexual honestly makes the most sense to me in that regard. Homo taken to mean the human species vs. homo meaning same. I suppose this is all just semantics but the logical/language oriented portion of my brain has a difficult time with pansexual as opposed to bisexual. What I'm really asking is if there is a difference at all?

[Wolverine]

What you are referring to is "sex" not gender, and there aren't just two of them. You should check out the video that was posted in this very thread not too long ago!

And yes, there is a difference. If I'm bisexual, I would be attracted to men with male bodies and women in female bodies. If I'm pansexual, I would be attracted to men with male bodies, women with male bodies, women with female bodies, women with male bodies... and that's just on the gender/sex binary... even more possibilites open up when you consider those somewhere in between the man/woman and male/female classifications.

[Guest shaka-spirit]

And yes, there is a difference. If I'm bisexual, I would be attracted to men with male bodies and women in female bodies. If I'm pansexual, I would be attracted to men with male bodies, women with male bodies, women with female bodies, women with male bodies... and that's just on the gender/sex binary... even more possibilites open up when you consider those somewhere in between the man/woman and male/female classifications.

^ Exactly.

[realbrickwall]

However when it comes down to biology there are only 2 genders.

NOPE

And everything else has already been said.

[SpazzyMal]

I figured it was about time for me to go ahead and post here and say hi to everyone. So, hi everyone! =)

I'm a lesbian in my mid-20's, I'm out online but not in real life, aside from to a couple of very carefully selected people. My life's not really at a good place for that yet. I live in a place that's not too gay friendly, with my family who is just as bad. I feel the inner push to come out and would like to (because I hate to be "secretive" or even have to outright lie, at times), but at this point I can't really afford to be kicked out of the house or possibly disowned. So silence for now. Maybe if one day I have a reason to come out (like actually having a girlfriend) things'll change, but for the moment I don't have a reason to come out so I'll be quiet until I can move somewhere else and support myself.