LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[Wolfhorde]

I'd guess the "I don't have a fucking clue to be honest" would fit me best, there is some form of attraction (in one way or another) to both sexes/genders. Ironically I never consciously thought about this up until something like a year ago when I got flak for actually saying out loud that I found certain men to be quite attractive and telling some people to stop attributing everything shitty about someone at my school to "being gay". I definitely support education on those topic and equality as obax described it. Speaking of which, I think it's great 3 Western countries (that I know of) have recently been discussing these topics - specifically the equality/rights of "LGBTQ" citizens.

I've also had "LGBTQ" friends for the past 8 years - some of which have had quite an impact on my life and some of which are an incredible inspiration.

 

Great to see there's also a friendly place for this on NF!

[Malenfant]

Thought I should report in. Just your average gay dude with a beard.

 

I live in France, and things have been a bit rough around these parts lately. The last few weeks there's been daily anti-gay-marriage protests at my doorstep and the town I live in is currently covered in "One man, one woman" graffiti. It makes you glad that spaces like this exist.

 

But heyho, France saw its very first gay couple get married yesterday, so there's lots of hope for the future!

[girljen]

Yay!  So glad to see this!

 

I'm a straight ally with a transguy brother...and soon, a gay brother-in-law!  *squee*  (or the equivalent that can happen with Colorado's civil unions law...it's a start)

 

Malenfant, there is definitely hope for the future.  I am so sorry that you have to see hate and ignorance every day.  Please, keep your faith in the human race!  Most people are good.

[Avistew]

Glad to hear the first gay marriages have been officiated I got married in France and I know how long all the paperwork takes to process before you can actually have the actual ceremony/sign the actual papers. Can take like a month, real pain.

 

Anyways, officially happening in France, that's good. I'm sorry you're faced with the bigotry all around you. It's ridiculous and I'm sure it will calm down. These people aren't the majority, they're just louder and sadly they exist a bit everywhere.

[Wolfhorde]

Anyways, officially happening in France, that's good. I'm sorry you're faced with the bigotry all around you. It's ridiculous and I'm sure it will calm down. These people aren't the majority, they're just louder and sadly they exist a bit everywhere.

 

^ This. I don't how often I hear the stereotypical judgements of other nationalities over here based on some vocal minority. French people are arrogant/elitist nationalists, Americans are religious or nationalistic zealots, intolerant, ignorant and homophobic.

The majority of people I know from either of these countries don't fit into these categories.

 

Malenfant, there is definitely hope for the future.  I am so sorry that you have to see hate and ignorance every day.  Please, keep your faith in the human race!  Most people are good.

 

And this, while I think a lot of things need to change (not just in this area but other areas like education and business practices as well) I think it's good that issues of the like have  received continued support and are being subject to open discourse right now. I actually think Germany could do more in this area as it's mostly a political discussion and people don't feel involved despite the fact that while civil marriage of non-heterosexuals is possible there's still quite a bit of underlying tension brooding under the surface. Especially in rural or conservative/traditional areas. Less so in big cities.

[thehuntsman]

Very cool to see this on here. Great to see everyone has a place on NF.

[Green knight of Athwen]

Hey its great that we have a link and Huge Cheers NF, must admit and another reason why nerds are the BEST, ever been asked about by Personal Relasionship in the chat room and ive openly stated ive been Civil Partnered for 6 yrs. or my faith group.

 

Were just hear to Support and encourage each other to level up with whats importent to our own health wellbeing.

 

SO GO NERDS.

[WriterGuy]

Gay guy, here. You have no idea how much this thread has me relieved. I usually don't know what to do with my sexuality. In my country, we're still quite unearthly and I tend to have to moderate how gay I can be without meeting public outcry. I'd like to say I'm a tough, don't-fuck-with-me kind of guy, but I'm not into turning every situation into a grand-stand or fight. 

 

I also don't have that many LGBTQA friends, so I navigate life without knowing much, so some honest conversations with you guys will be really like a life education. 

[nightlight]

Gay guy, here. You have no idea how much this thread has me relieved. I usually don't know what to do with my sexuality. In my country, we're still quite unearthly and I tend to have to moderate how gay I can be without meeting public outcry. I'd like to say I'm a tough, don't-fuck-with-me kind of guy, but I'm not into turning every situation into a grand-stand or fight. 

 

I also don't have that many LGBTQA friends, so I navigate life without knowing much, so some honest conversations with you guys will be really like a life education. 

where are you from?

[WriterGuy]

Bulgaria. We do have a gay scene, but I don't really fit in it. I'm just awkward most of the time and geek-ish and far removed from what I've seen so far, but then again I am painfully shy, so socializing is a problem.

[Mr. Decay]

Hello there, my sexually diverse (human) friends. I am an ally to your cause. You have my sword.
I don't think your orientation matters much, though. You're all nerds to me, and I'm sure many of us would agree with me.

[Wolfhorde]

Hello there, my sexually diverse (human) friends. I am an ally to your cause. You have my sword.

I don't think your orientation matters much, though. You're all nerds to me, and I'm sure many of us would agree with me.

 

Well, it might matter to the invidiual but it sure as hell shouldn't matter in general in terms of how people behave towards other people. I don't care whether people know about mine or not but I also don't care about making big announcements to the world or wearing a stamp on my forehead - as much as I don't care about other people's sexual orientation or gender identity. What I do care about is how they behave about it. If somebody shoves his sexuality down somebody else's throat - regardless of orientation - I'll think that person is an idiot. If somebody has a hateful bias towards such superficial criteria - regardless of perspective I'll think that person to be an idiot.

Same thing goes for religion and political affiliation.

[fizzyorange]

Just thought I'd pop in and say hello. I like to think of myself as "not being too fussy", go out with guys and girls, I just like people that I like really. Never really use the term bi because for my age group (just a wee 19yo) there is a stigma to it of girls who are "experimenting". Five years later after my first girlfriend and the family still thinks its a phase.   

Well good luck to everyone with their fitness/life goals, will pop in again!

[WriterGuy]

Well, it might matter to the invidiual but it sure as hell shouldn't matter in general in terms of how people behave towards other people. I don't care whether people know about mine or not but I also don't care about making big announcements to the world or wearing a stamp on my forehead - as much as I don't care about other people's sexual orientation or gender identity. What I do care about is how they behave about it. If somebody shoves his sexuality down somebody else's throat - regardless of orientation - I'll think that person is an idiot. If somebody has a hateful bias towards such superficial criteria - regardless of perspective I'll think that person to be an idiot.

Same thing goes for religion and political affiliation.

This is something most people need to learn. I'm very happy to see people like you with such an understanding of how things work in life and are very open about discussing it. Yet, most people I know take a look at a person and judge, judge, judge him or her based on that superficial criteria. This reminds of this pretty quote attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt - Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

 

Just thought I'd pop in and say hello. I like to think of myself as "not being too fussy", go out with guys and girls, I just like people that I like really. Never really use the term bi because for my age group (just a wee 19yo) there is a stigma to it of girls who are "experimenting". Five years later after my first girlfriend and the family still thinks its a phase.   

Well good luck to everyone with their fitness/life goals, will pop in again!

I have really thought being bi is pretty darn awesome in terms of dating possibilities and experiences you can draw from them. However, I have come to understand that the word carries stigmata for both genders. Women get labelled as sluts and guys are gay in denial. So yeah, I can understand why you have chosen to stay away from an exact label.

 

Hello there, my sexually diverse (human) friends. I am an ally to your cause. You have my sword.

I don't think your orientation matters much, though. You're all nerds to me, and I'm sure many of us would agree with me.

Your sword has been accepted.

[Leithient]

I'm going to do a stupid question, I know, but I'm desperate...

 

How could one know if a girl is single or has a girlfriend? Without asking her, of course. At least I know that she isn't straight (which is a great new in my life, 'cause I've been always falling in love with straight girls, luck for me), but I don't know what could I do. It's unplausible... I could follow an strict meal plan, do hard workouts, running for nearly two hours... but I can't talk to another girl without getting nervous or having a mental block.

 

I feel stupid...

[Pherales]

I'm going to do a stupid question, I know, but I'm desperate...

 

How could one know if a girl is single or has a girlfriend? Without asking her, of course. At least I know that she isn't straight (which is a great new in my life, 'cause I've been always falling in love with straight girls, luck for me), but I don't know what could I do. It's unplausible... I could follow an strict meal plan, do hard workouts, running for nearly two hours... but I can't talk to another girl without getting nervous or having a mental block.

 

I feel stupid...

 

In a nutshell, without being a stalker and checking her social profiles etc/asking mutual friends, you can't.  

 

I have this exact same problem, every time.  I had to alter my mentality to "Well even if she's not single, I've potentially made another friend at the very least".

[Wolfhorde]

Just thought I'd pop in and say hello. I like to think of myself as "not being too fussy", go out with guys and girls, I just like people that I like really. Never really use the term bi because for my age group (just a wee 19yo) there is a stigma to it of girls who are "experimenting". Five years later after my first girlfriend and the family still thinks its a phase.   

Well good luck to everyone with their fitness/life goals, will pop in again!

 

The highlighted statement so god damn much. It's all about dem pplz. Equally regarding friendships or anything else of the like.

 

This is something most people need to learn. I'm very happy to see people like you with such an understanding of how things work in life and are very open about discussing it. Yet, most people I know take a look at a person and judge, judge, judge him or her based on that superficial criteria. This reminds of this pretty quote attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt - Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

 

I have really thought being bi is pretty darn awesome in terms of dating possibilities and experiences you can draw from them. However, I have come to understand that the word carries stigmata for both genders. Women get labelled as sluts and guys are gay in denial. So yeah, I can understand why you have chosen to stay away from an exact label.

 

It's not an "understanding", it's just a perspective. As much as what I listed are perspectives, the point is that such a perspective is more focussed on cooperation than stigmatism, dogmatism and elbow society behavior to make things easier and create a "movement" or an "angry mob". Look at what happened to the Occupy movement and you see pretty good where blind hatred and "against da system" will get you. The thing is, fighting fire with fire rarely ever works out - especially within civilizations. But I agree with the sentiment and that is a great quote! Plus while I don't like being pushy I'm very much for being open about how we feel and what we think. Whether that means "making a stand" and speaking up about a certain issue when most are silent/opposing a majority or just going up to someone to compliment they're smile because you feel like it.

 

As for the other notion, I don't think it's quite that easy. If you read back on this thread a couple pages it becomes pretty clear that it's not all fine and dandy even within the community. Plus going up to men like you'd go up to women is a whole different story but I don't think I have to tell you that.

 

I'm going to do a stupid question, I know, but I'm desperate...

 

How could one know if a girl is single or has a girlfriend? Without asking her, of course. At least I know that she isn't straight (which is a great new in my life, 'cause I've been always falling in love with straight girls, luck for me), but I don't know what could I do. It's unplausible... I could follow an strict meal plan, do hard workouts, running for nearly two hours... but I can't talk to another girl without getting nervous or having a mental block.

 

I feel stupid...

 

Ask, seriously. Don't be creepy, just ask (her out). Most people will have no problem with people being courageous enough to do so, who knows - they might even react more positively than you'd imagine. (straight female friend of mine just did the same thing - dude had a gf but still invited her to go out that eve with his chef pals)

Plus, what's the worst that could happen? Somebody is not your biggest fan, big whoop.

[Malenfant]

I'm going to do a stupid question, I know, but I'm desperate...

 

How could one know if a girl is single or has a girlfriend? Without asking her, of course. At least I know that she isn't straight (which is a great new in my life, 'cause I've been always falling in love with straight girls, luck for me), but I don't know what could I do. It's unplausible... I could follow an strict meal plan, do hard workouts, running for nearly two hours... but I can't talk to another girl without getting nervous or having a mental block.

 

I feel stupid...

 

Hit your Hulk berserker button and ask her directly! Seriously, take a gulp of air, tell yourself "I can do anything, because I'm a badass" and walk up to the girl, humming Flight of the Valkyries all the way.

 

Alright, I don't want to be too jokey because this is a serious issue, but if there's two big things I've learned it's that: 1.) People understand each other by talking (thoughts don't come through unless you speak them out). And 2.) If Love is War, there's no space in it for covert ops. Always be frank in matters of the heart.

[TankGrrl]

I'm going to do a stupid question, I know, but I'm desperate...

 

How could one know if a girl is single or has a girlfriend? Without asking her, of course. At least I know that she isn't straight (which is a great new in my life, 'cause I've been always falling in love with straight girls, luck for me), but I don't know what could I do. It's unplausible... I could follow an strict meal plan, do hard workouts, running for nearly two hours... but I can't talk to another girl without getting nervous or having a mental block.

 

I feel stupid...

 

Does this lady of your affection know that you are gay?

At least letting her know might be a good step one. Also, you know a little about her, but does she know you from a bar of soap?

 

A simple small talk conversation, that introduces you to each other would be my first play. If she doesn't mention whether she has a girlfriend or not unprompted (i.e "yeah, my girlfriend and I went to see that movie last week"), you can always try to the direct approach a little later.

Search for something you might have in common and ask her a question about it.

 

 

*disclaimer*

All relationship advice is not my own work as I am also a painfully shy person. Everything I know was learnt from the wise sensei Dan Savage and his Savage Love podcast

[Shukar]

All due glory to the wise Dan. Remember, the worst that you'll get is a no that at least settles the question instead of leaving you wondering what's going on, but if you don't go do something you'll never have a shot at a yes.

 

Also, if she's making out with someone, then probably either dating or not interested in dating. That's about the best indicator I can think of without a conversation being involved. 

[Kyrian]

LGBT and all others, and my support are belong to you.

As for questioning potential love prospects, anytime I get nervous, I just think about how I would feel if someone was asking me the same question. If someone asked me if I had a significant other, or was I single, or would I like to go to the movies, I wouldn't be unsettled. And even if I knew they were asking with romantic intention, it wouldn't bother me too much. So why should it bother me to ask someone else?

If you're worried about being too forward, just make some conversation first. Ask what they do, where they live, do they have siblings, etc. etc. Then it just seems like a normal question, instead of an out-of-the-blue one.

[WriterGuy]

I'm going to do a stupid question, I know, but I'm desperate...

 

How could one know if a girl is single or has a girlfriend? Without asking her, of course. At least I know that she isn't straight (which is a great new in my life, 'cause I've been always falling in love with straight girls, luck for me), but I don't know what could I do. It's unplausible... I could follow an strict meal plan, do hard workouts, running for nearly two hours... but I can't talk to another girl without getting nervous or having a mental block.

 

I feel stupid...

 

Boy, do we have the same problem. I can't for the world of me ask someone out in person and when I do, I usually hit on straight men. I second what others have said. Strike a small conversation that leads to the invitation. You either get a yes or a no, but nothing that warrants getting all nervous. 

 

It's not an "understanding", it's just a perspective. As much as what I listed are perspectives, the point is that such a perspective is more focussed on cooperation than stigmatism, dogmatism and elbow society behavior to make things easier and create a "movement" or an "angry mob". Look at what happened to the Occupy movement and you see pretty good where blind hatred and "against da system" will get you. The thing is, fighting fire with fire rarely ever works out - especially within civilizations. But I agree with the sentiment and that is a great quote! Plus while I don't like being pushy I'm very much for being open about how we feel and what we think. Whether that means "making a stand" and speaking up about a certain issue when most are silent/opposing a majority or just going up to someone to compliment they're smile because you feel like it.

 

As for the other notion, I don't think it's quite that easy. If you read back on this thread a couple pages it becomes pretty clear that it's not all fine and dandy even within the community. Plus going up to men like you'd go up to women is a whole different story but I don't think I have to tell you that.

While not interchangeable, I consider understanding and perspective to touch similar ground. Your perspective shows how you understand human interaction can be better through cooperation. Fighting with fire never works and it supposedly works, you end up with too much collateral damage, you could have avoided. But I guess aggression as shown through stigmatism and the elbow society behavior have established themselves as the primary means of human self-expression. 

[AceVixen]

As long as you are courteous and not creepy, even if she has a girlfriend or just says 'no', you may well make her day. Everyone likes to feel wanted! I know it's hard, but even if you are rejected, the earth won't actually swallow you up and the experience may give you more confidence next time.

[Wolfhorde]

While not interchangeable, I consider understanding and perspective to touch similar ground. Your perspective shows how you understand human interaction can be better through cooperation. Fighting with fire never works and it supposedly works, you end up with too much collateral damage, you could have avoided. But I guess aggression as shown through stigmatism and the elbow society behavior have established themselves as the primary means of human self-expression. 

 

Well, yeah they also have different connotations and I'm always careful with these as I'm not one to claim anything of "higher quality" than anybody else. As I said, I think these are perspectives or "tools" which can be measured by their use. (I don't wanna say utility because utilitarianism is often too much into that radical ratio/logic mumbo jumbo)

I wouldn't say that, I don't think it has been established as primary means - it has just been ingrained in certain fraction of people's thinking over a certain timeframe. It's another perspective that has just been historically prominent often based on misunderstanding (e.g. mistaking "existential egotism" for conscious egotism/narcisscism), to which degree that it is prominent in reality and theory is debatable. One should never underestimate "vocal minorities", effects of proximity (personal experience vs. general applicability), prestige, frequency and media bias(es).

 

As long as you are courteous and not creepy, even if she has a girlfriend or just says 'no', you may well make her day. Everyone likes to feel wanted! I know it's hard, but even if you are rejected, the earth won't actually swallow you up and the experience may give you more confidence next time.

 

This, most people with "relative" mental health definitely do and you're unlikely to offend anyone by expressing interest. More the opposite, showing courage to take action. (aka being assertive, which is all too often misunderstood as being aggressive). Plus, the reaction of people in reality is often way less extreme than the reactions in our mind and the effect of such actions are often minimal on the negative scale.

[Leithient]

Thank you all for your feedback. Let's go step by step:

 

In a nutshell, without being a stalker and checking her social profiles etc/asking mutual friends, you can't.  

 

I have this exact same problem, every time.  I had to alter my mentality to "Well even if she's not single, I've potentially made another friend at the very least".

 

That's what I think. Perhaps my problem is being too naive, but I can't avoid thinking that even if she doesn't pay attention to me I could try to give her my best.

 

Ask, seriously. Don't be creepy, just ask (her out). Most people will have no problem with people being courageous enough to do so, who knows - they might even react more positively than you'd imagine. (straight female friend of mine just did the same thing - dude had a gf but still invited her to go out that eve with his chef pals)

Plus, what's the worst that could happen? Somebody is not your biggest fan, big whoop.

 

Well, we are in the same gym—in fact, she is one of my spining's instructors, so what I am afraid of is maybe an awnward situation (in the future). But this doesn't mean that I were doing nothing (I talk to her and I ask her to have a coffee, but it seems that she is applying a policy of carrot and stick—I'll explain this below).

 

 

Hit your Hulk berserker button and ask her directly! Seriously, take a gulp of air, tell yourself "I can do anything, because I'm a badass" and walk up to the girl, humming Flight of the Valkyries all the way.

 

Alright, I don't want to be too jokey because this is a serious issue, but if there's two big things I've learned it's that: 1.) People understand each other by talking (thoughts don't come through unless you speak them out). And 2.) If Love is War, there's no space in it for covert ops. Always be frank in matters of the heart.

 

Related with my former comment, I'm trying to be honest. I mean, I think that she could 'suspect' that at least I like her. I'm very shy and I don't see me telling her about my feelings no messing around. Wow, I'm realizing that I have a lot more room for improvement in social/love matters. I feel as a teenager.

 

 

Does this lady of your affection know that you are gay?

At least letting her know might be a good step one. Also, you know a little about her, but does she know you from a bar of soap?

 

A simple small talk conversation, that introduces you to each other would be my first play. If she doesn't mention whether she has a girlfriend or not unprompted (i.e "yeah, my girlfriend and I went to see that movie last week"), you can always try to the direct approach a little later.

Search for something you might have in common and ask her a question about it.

 

 

*disclaimer*

All relationship advice is not my own work as I am also a painfully shy person. Everything I know was learnt from the wise sensei Dan Savage and his Savage Love podcast

 

Well, she doesn't know, but it's obvious. I'm a bit confused, so I'm going to explain the situation:

 

I think that it's not difficult to note that I'm gay, and because of my shyness it's easy to see that I'm flirting to she. Therefore, I think that if she had a girlfriend, maybe she would say something so that I would stop making a fool. My friends say that she seems very happy when we met by chance at university. However, when I suggested her a coffee she said that as she was very busy and after the gym she used to eat breakfast, I could sign up.

 

I'm very pessimistic, so I think that she gave me an excuse, but (again) my friends say that it means that at least she likes me and her 'excuse' may be because she is testing the waters. Love is too complicated for my simple brain!

 

 

 

All due glory to the wise Dan. Remember, the worst that you'll get is a no that at least settles the question instead of leaving you wondering what's going on, but if you don't go do something you'll never have a shot at a yes.

 

Also, if she's making out with someone, then probably either dating or not interested in dating. That's about the best indicator I can think of without a conversation being involved. 

 

 

LGBT and all others, and my support are belong to you.

As for questioning potential love prospects, anytime I get nervous, I just think about how I would feel if someone was asking me the same question. If someone asked me if I had a significant other, or was I single, or would I like to go to the movies, I wouldn't be unsettled. And even if I knew they were asking with romantic intention, it wouldn't bother me too much. So why should it bother me to ask someone else?

If you're worried about being too forward, just make some conversation first. Ask what they do, where they live, do they have siblings, etc. etc. Then it just seems like a normal question, instead of an out-of-the-blue one.

 

Maybe we aren't in the best context for having a relaxed conversation and I should take it easy a little longer. My main fear is going so slowly that I lose the opportunity for fear of going too fast and scare her. Anyway, thank you all for your support and advices, and sorry that this has become an emotional therapy.